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Carpal Tunnel Syndrome Unrelated to Typing?
hug_the_penguin writes "Betanews is reporting about a Harvard medical school report that suggests Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is unrelated to typing at all. Suggested causes may be genetic disposition, body weight, fractured bones or even pregnancy." From the article: "Now, don't go out typing to your heart's content. Researchers still warned that improper computer use could cause different types of repetitive stress injuries, of which carpal tunnel is incorrectly described as one."
Those science geeks over at Harvard need to devote their time to studying a much more debilitating form of RSI...namely, Nintendonitis (also known as Nintendo Thumb) ^_^
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
I'd always been told it was pressure on the carpal tunnel that caused it, not finger movements. So typing with your wrists pressed against the corner of a desk (or in the case more familiar to me, playing bass guitar with the right wrist pressed against the top edge of the instrument) would cause it, not typing with a nice wrist rest or with hands held high, piano-style, above the desk...
Game dev and music blog
"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
I mean, doesn't typing just increase flexibility and muscle strength in the wrist?
... or at least not to me.
Years ago I went to the Dr about some pain in my hands and wrists and he determined it was carpel tunnel.
Funny thing though... I don't have issues with typing... in fact, I'd had it for longer than I'd had a computer... and it really only exhibited itself when clutching something, like a pen, mouse or other controller.
Shame... I had it before it became all the rage.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
I've always questioned the logic behind it. I placed it as an assumed contributor because it's something that people do in a fixed manner with their hands. I have been an avid computer user for the last 16 years and can say that I have no signs of carpal tunnel. In fact, I've heard of very few cases of it in people around me in the same field who spend upwards of 8-10 hours a day on the computer. I have seen it, however, in people who have a disposition towards weak bones, etc. You know, the guys you won't play football with at the company picnic because they break SOMETHING every year... Xserv
"I love lamp."
I'm right handed, and the carpal tunnel in my left hand is MUCH less than the right hand, and I notice that it hurts much worse when I've been mousing a lot, rather than when I've been typing a lot. I know that a lot of writing with a pen or pencil will cause a big flareup, too.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
I find that, for me at least, stress is the biggest factor. Whenever things aren't going well at work, I get wrist pains. But I've done hobby coding for years at home without any problems.
One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do and always a clever thing to say. - Will Duran
I have seen people who "know how to type", as opposed to just knowing where the keys are from years of experience. The horrible contortions I see the human hand perform in order to always stay near the home keys is sickening.
Maybe I just have large hands, but I can't stand keeping them in that cramped and static position. My hands move as much as my fingers when I type. Just resting my hands on the home keys places them in an uncomfortable clubbed-paw shape which I can easily imagine causes severe damage to whatever organs rest within.
That's my theory, anyway.
(*of course I wish I could think fast enough that typing faster would really matter that much. I suppose I could get that sentence out faster if I knew how, but the majority of my day is spent thinking about what to write when I eventually write it.)
Typing about typing is fun to type. Type type type type type type type...
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
After years of using the computer extensively with work, and especially with after hours gaming, MMORPGs and FPS in general, I can tell my right hand has changed and become weaker over time. Not sure if thats the beginning signals for CTS, but I know it wasnt from typing.
"Betanews is reporting about a Harvard medical school report that suggests Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is unrelated to typing at all.
I didn't get mine by typing, I got it from the mouse. Having clicked for so long I finally got sharp pains and the symptoms. And does it hurt.
So I switched to my left hand for the mouse, continue to type and it is slowly getting better.
Might I suggest to researchers to really do some pure no BS research. What they might find is the ergonomics of many of todays offices and computers are the problem. Some I/T people work in closets. And that "touch pad" on my portable, more than once I have thought about taking an electric drill to it to destroy it.
Computers need to fit people, not the other way around.
Nietzsche also said that God is dead. And, my personal favorite, "When you stare into the abyss, sometimes the abyss stares back." It's pretty well established that somewhere in his lifetime, Nietzsche started going crazy. What people have never been able to determine is how far into his writing career it was that it happened. Neat guy to read, but you can see the undertow of madness in his writings.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
Over this last summer, the ridiculous amount of typing I was doing caused by ring finger and pinky to go numb. Thinking it was Carpal Tunnel, I went to the doctor, who confirmed to me that Carpal Tunnel is not usually caused by typing.
What she did tell me, however, was that I likely had Ulnar Tunnel Syndrome. Though this is also not caused by typing, it was the resting of my elbow on the desk which applied pressure on the Ulnar Nerve, causing numbness and pain.
Couple this with my career as a professional trombonist, and I had trouble.
The moral of the story is simple - it is not so much how much you type (or perform), it is the position of your hand and arm whilst doing it. Keeping a natural, "open" posture is ultimately the best way to prevent these problems.
I hope the land around you yields, a crop like all the other fields, and then your waiting might make sense...
I want to kill him when he does this, but it's not my fault... for you see, I have:
Carpool Tunnel Syndrome
oh... you're talking about something else?
"I have as much authority as the pope, I just
don't have as many people who believe it" - George Carlin
My study shows that there's a 90% certainty that a college that is receiving major donations from American Corporations (that are paying large disability amounts to affected workers) are encouraging young college students to do these sort of studies. ie: If you look for something hard enough, you will find enough circumstantial evidence to make it seem true.
Everyone who reads Slashdot probably types a great deal and perhaps plays computer or console games. Anyone here not ever lose track of the time and type/play for an entire evening and have your wrist or fingers get sore? Of course you have.
If you had genetically weaker fingers or wrists, it would merely take less time for the carpal tunnel symptoms to appear than it would for others. That study implies that other "genetically disposed" people wouldn't get carpal tunnel - Sit them at my terminal and let them type code for 10 hours straight per day and we'll see.
While we're on the "Genetically Disposed" bandwagon, let's not forget that corporate America wants that DNA testing to see if you're predisposed to any illnesses that they might have to pay for later in your work career. That's the Insurance Industries "Holy Grail" and don't think that it will never come to pass in the future that you won't be able to get meaningful employment because you're DNA says you're likely to get some condition that they'll have to pay for later. Everyone here probably had to take a physical as a term of employment - what if they added DNA testing to deny you employment because of what you "might" get in the future?
Lk4
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts", Earl Weaver - Legendary Coach of the Baltimore Orioles
Speaking as somebody who just this passed Wednesday had a doctor's appointment related to repetitive stress from typing..
The report is most likely technichally correct. What many people call carpel tunnel is actually various ligament overuse disorders (which are typing related), rather than nerve compression. One main way to tell, is that nearly all the wrist/forearm/elbow pain, 'itchiness' etc, is related to ligament issues, the nerve compression (which is carpel tunnel disorder) part causes numbness, 'falling alseep' type symptoms etc.
However, the ligament overuse problems, if left untreated for too long, can eventually cause carpel tunnel, because the ligaments and the nerves go through the same tunnels in the wrist, so if the ligaments are inflamed for too long, it can cause long term nerve compression and carpel tunnel disorder.
Basically my advice, is if you're having any wrist/forearm issues: see a doctor early rather than later, because it can get dramatically worse if left untreated.
What's new here? Everything that the betanews report states has long been known in the medical community -- particularly the bit about pregnancy. My wife is currently in her second pregnancy, and she never had any carpal tunnel problems before. But she does now -- if she's at a keyboard too long or crochets too much then her wrist starts to hurt. Her doctor says it's fairly common for pregnant women to suffer carpal tunnel due to increased swelling and the loosening of joints during pregnancy. And all she can do is wear a wrist brace and take tylenol -- there are no anti-inflamatories approved for use while pregnant.
The rest of the info is also well known. A poor hand posture can exacerbate the problem, but it's unlikely to cause it outright.
If you did all of that correctly you would see how the angle of your wrists becomes and less natural. Now imagine typing with your standard (or worse.. laptop) keyoard close to your chest. The unnatural angle does not bode well for your wrist.
Basically 75% (rough number) of people that come into these docs complaining of chronic wrist pain don't even need splints. They are advised to get a trackball (much easier on the wrists), type with the keyboard farther away, and have the top of the monitor at eye level, and sometimes to get an ergonomic keyboard. Most people report that their symptoms are gone within 2-4 weeks if they keep up their new setup. I know a lot of /.'ers are pretty down on things like ergonomic keyboards and consider them little more than overpriced gimmicks but the truth is they are a far cry less expensive than carpal tunnel surgery and relatively effective.
As a microbiologist I can also tell you that pretty much any disease/disorder/etc. is influenced by things like genetics, age, weight, hormone levels, etc. etc. Saying that carpal tunnel isn't affected by poor body angle and repetetive motions (like typing) is like saying that skin cancer isn't caused by bathing yourself in UV radiation all day and that it is only attributable to genetics, and body type. The other problem with this report (which we also have not seen yet) is that it is a correlation study in the negative. They are saying that they cannot find a correlation so therefore it must not exist. That is even worse that the positive correlation studies where two trends coincide so they conclude causation. My view is that typing does aggravate carpal tunnel but so does genetics that make you susceptible to inflammation.
I don't think keyboard use is the source of most of this...it's much more due to pointing devices. Switching from mouse to trackball has been very helpful to me.
-=Maggie Leber=-
[And that "touch pad" on my portable, more than once I have thought about taking an electric drill to it to destroy it.]
Many times I've caught myself using the touchpad with my wrist bent backwards as far as it goes and middle finger straight down sliding around. I look down and think, "What the hell am I doing".
I would think "awareness" is one of the biggest preventers of RPI. You just have to train yourself to think before you type. Usually it only takes 2 or 3 seconds to get into a better position.
I was concerned that my computer job was giving me the pain I was having in my hands and unable to even hold silverware, etc. It turned out to be the pressure on my carpal tunnel area from my bicycle handles.
I started walking to work instead and the problem went away. I was surprised after all of the attention that typing gets for causing carpal tunnel. Glad to hear those Harvard people are figuring it out.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
Emacs Pinky is real. The seeping generalization that RSI is not due to typing is incorrect.
If you don't use Emacs, just watch someone who does: his poor left pinky will be continually moving, depressing control keys. After doing that hours a day for months/years, he'll typically get RSI.
To get around this, it is common for Emacs users to map "Caps Lock" to a control key, so that the poor pinky doesn't have to continually press down in such an unnatural way (it will just have to move a key to the left and go down). But one you've ruined it, you can still get Emacs Pinky.
A simple way to check the hypothesis would be to just see how many vi users have "Emacs pinky" symptoms. I've never known a vi user with Emacs pinky. Given that "Emacs pinky" has been spontaneously identified and named, I think it is real, or at least worth spending effor to dismiss if you want to argue RSI is not due to typing.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
I used to have RSI to the point where if I lifted my hands above my head, my smaller digits would instantly become numb. Right now it is mostly (99%) self-healed and gone. Read below for my solution.
:)
RSI is caused by stress, lack of sleep, and poor diet (lack of sleep is itself also stress). If you try to type faster than is comfortable, and unconsciously pound on the keyboard, you will get it. You are even more likely to get it if you work in a very stressful environment. However, if you type without hurry and only apply enough effort to activate the key and no more, then you won't get it.
If you have RSI, stop typing faster than is comfortable. Don't reach for your ultimate typing speed. Stop pounding the keyboard -- apply only enough force to activate the key. Eat decent food and sleep 8 hours a day. It would also help to use a wrist exercise equipment, such as a physiotherapy ball/gel, or even some sports grip equipment (often a spring with two handles), to strenghten up your wrist by exercise, but do not overdo it. If you stretch your wrists -- do it gently and do not overstretch (this is important!). And watch your RSI go away.
An important point is not to reintroduce stress through stressful stretching and exercise. So when stretching, don't go crazy and don't push it hard -- go easy on your hands and relax.
You may slip back into the old pounding the keyboard spazmatically routine, so you have to be careful not to regress into a bad habit once you get rid of it.
Had carpal tunnel for a while. Then as soon as switched to MS natural keyboard, the pain went away. Figured it was the angle of my hands vs the forearm... with a natural keyboard, it's flat, there's no angle, while with a standard kb, wrists are always laid back at an angle, especially if your elbows are on your desk.
So thanks Microsoft... your products can literally cure diseases!
"If you could only see what I've seen with your eyes..." - Roy Batty