Slashdot Mirror
The Return of the Commodore?
PseudoSapien writes "A Dutch consumer media company is hoping it can tap the power of the VIC 20, the PET and the Commodore 64 to launch a new wave of products, including a home media center device and a portable GPS (Global Positioning System) unit and media player. They're talking about Resurrecting Commodore." From the article: "Commodore is far from the first company to try to revive a once-popular tech brand. The Amiga, Commodore's onetime PC brand, has had its own decades-long history as fans tried to preserve both the computer's operating system and brand despite the lack of strong corporate backing."
8 bit is back!
I remember the comodore PET I used back in high school. No HD. No Floppy. No color screen. 64KB of memory (?). Basic. Tape drive (you could use the same tapes that would play in your care stereo). Wow!
Who will guard the guards?
Memory
Writing programs in BASIC
Saving files to a tape drive
We were patient back then...
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Some Dutch company bought rights to use the commodore name and logo and is stamping it on some Chinese made OEM products?
Can't we just let the dead rest in peace anymore? I loved both my C=64 and my Amiga, but they're history. This is just marketing/branding, it has nothing to do with the original products, nor it's spirit.
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
if you want real power you need a spectrum with a massive 128k of memory and a top of the range built in tape drive
The good news: It will run Open Office. The bad news: The Open Office suite will come on 382 floppy disks.
Hypertalk and a resurection of hypercard. While I loved learning to code on my C64 I was quickly frustrated by what was required to get basic images on the screen. Hypertalk proved to me more useful to me for making basic games and such, and on top of it, it had enough basic OO like programing involved that the concept was easy enough to pick up when I hit actual OO languages.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Just don't publish programs in magazines. That really was a painful and stupid way to distrubute software.
:) I did, and also happened to learn a lot in the process.
It also happened to be the only viable way to distribute software, economically atleast. But hey, atleast running software you spent hours transcribing was rewarding
So... This isn't Commodore, they aren't using old Commodore tech, they're just hoping that people are going to buy something because of the name.
I doubt this will work very well. Once people realise the association is fake, the products had better be very good, or else people will be angry that their good memories have been compromised, and they will be *less* satisfied than if they'd just bought a Brand Nobody product.
I think it's unlikely the products will be any good, or else they wouldn't have felt the need to tack any brand they could get their hands on as a way to promote them. Think of the ratio of good film tie-in games to bad.
Maybe they will make good use of the name, maybe they have the most wonderful products ever, but they are one wrong step from becoming unwanted graverobbers.
Maybe they'll buy my 400 shares of CBM. ;-)
Go here: http://www.viceteam.org/
Then here: http://www.c64.com/
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Just don't publish programs in magazines. That really was a painful and stupid way to distrubute software.
When I was a kid, before going to kindergarten. I saw my dad copying code from an old Compute! magazine. I asked him what he was doing and he explained he was telling the computer what he wanted it to do. I asked how I could do this and Dad told me I would need to learn to read first. I learned how to read before going to school for the sole purpose of writing code. I now have an associates in programming and have been working with computers for about 6-7 years. I have the C64 and Compute! to thank for making me the geek I am today. This news brings warmth to my heart.
Beware the fury of a patient man
- John Dryden
Here in Argentina, there are Commodore brand clone PCs since over two years ago (and pretty cheap they are), take a look Here, so, wtf is this news?
Brand recognition, maybe. People might be more willing to buy a device if it's a Commodore as opposed to $RANDOM_CORPORATION_WE_NEVER_HEARD_ABOUT_BEFORE.
The same thing happened to Amiga, too: just remember the late "Amiga" computers (I'm putting that in quotes on purpose), which really were just standard PCs with AMD processors - but with a hefty price tag.
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
Just don't publish programs in magazines. That really was a painful and stupid way to distrubute software.
It also happened to be the only viable way to distribute software, economically atleast.
Actually, in The Netherlands there was a programme on radio that broadcast data tapes (!). Just tape the radio show to cassette, run a translator from BASICODE (which was the "univeral" basic dialect the broadcasts were in) to your home computer's very own basic dialect, and you were in business. The show was called NOS HobbyScoop if I recall correctly.
Also, I recollect (fondly) an issue of MSX Magazine which had a flexi disc record (you know, like one of them vinyl records your grandaddy used to have, but the flexi disc was a superthin version of this) which you also copied onto cassette to load onto your machine.
Later on I even became aware of broadcasts of computer data using Teletext pages on Rai Uno (Italian tv - teletext is broadcast in the superfluent scanlines of PAL television, much like closed captioning is broadcast in the extra scanlines of NTSC); these were also targetted, at first, at home computer user, and only later at PC users (but by then, BBSes were the norm).
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
Typing, typing, typing, typing, save to tape.
Typing, typing, typing, typing, save to tape.
Typing, typing, typing, typing, save to tape.
Typing, typing, typing, typing, save to tape.
Unplug computer from TV and watch news.
Plug in computer to TV and continue!
Slashcode bug # 497457 - unfixed since December 2001 - Go look it up!
o/~ Join us now and share the software
What's a Commodore?
You fail as a first officer.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
When you're older son we'll tell you. It's what peopled used before they discovered hard drives and monitors, not to mention store bought software. Remember working off a TV? Good times, good times.
Kids today have it easy.
I learned assembler when I was 12 because the BASIC in the ZX81 was so horrible. (The processor was a Z-80, so ironically I was unwittingly being spoiled by Z-80 assembler- the 6502 instruction set was a rude surprise when I upgraded to the Commodore.)
All the games in the articles had a short description and then pages of numbers between 0 and 255 that you had to carefully type in (the Commodore articles later at least included CRCs). Most of the excitement came from just getting the numbers into the machine so you could save to tape before the machine crashed, since the connection to the 16k memory pack was so flakey- the contacts weren't gold plated and the heatsink inside the zx81 itself was just a little thin prong that rose up from the motherboard to the aluminum case lining. I found that leaving a ziploc full of ice cubes on top of a zx81 was a good way to increase the likelihood of success.
I actually think C= has potential as a gamer's brand like Voodoo or Alienware.
A lot of people who grew up with C=64s are adults with money now who want high-quality gaming gear.
Just think about the commercials:
Fade in old-style C= logo, maybe some old-skool tv shots of people playing around with something on a C=64. Then an explosion and some new-style C= logo glowing or perhaps crackling with electricity behind it. Caption (or voiceover): "It's Back..."
+++ATH0
What is a name really worth? They spent millions on the Commodore name...and an old name at that. It is hard to believe. I don't buy a product because of a name. I buy a product because of its features and design. Yes, I do look at the reputation of a company and reputations are associated with names, but there is no relationship between this new Commodore and the old one so no prior reputation autmatically follows. Will people actually buy more product because they chose to use the Commodore name? My belief is that they won't. Yet, why would this company spend millions on the name if they didn't think it would help them? What do they know that I don't? I just can't wrap my head around it.
I stopped reading here.
I don't know what these people are doing with the Commodore name, but whatever it is, it isn't Commodore.
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
Yea, it was painful, but it was all we had man!
I was about four years old when I first started with the C64, and my mom was a secretary at that time, so she typed the code for a while. It took me a few years to wrap my mind around it, but it was a great way to dissect the language and learn through repitition. But, honestly, I do strongly doubt they'd print complete game/app code in magazines these days!
....No wonder why 'ADD' wasn't a hot issue back then.
I'd like Dell or Apple to consider these traits.
. quiver...
I could flip a switch and start typing code in second or two. It was silent, no fans or hard drive. It's keyboard was well-cushioned and you could pound it comfortably all day. I could turn a knob on my "monitor" and watch David Letterman, then turn the knob back to switch tasks without installing any special software.
Comfortable, fast, silent, efficient...It was a good computer for writing code and making business spreadsheets in "multi-plan" I'd never be able to buy a computer with those characteristics today!...sniff...sniff...quiver...sniff...sniff..
Does that surprise you or is it in any way different from 95% of other companies out there today?
Sorry, just irritated that not only is this strategy so widespread, but that it is so effective in the market. Why are people generally more caught up in a brand than the actual product?
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Just to let you know, there's still a vivid commodore demoscene (evolved from intros), producing enormous creative output. some links: http://scene.org/ - repository for all demoscene stuff; the bigger parties like breakpoint and assembly have c64/amiga compo categories http://scene.org/file.php?id=289244 - unbelievable amiga demo from 2004
so, you learnt something new and irrelevant again today!
Um, just the company that created the single most successful model of computer ever (the C64); had a bunch of other very successful models (the C128, the VIC-20, the PET, the Amiga 2000, the Amiga 500); is generally acknowledged for inventing multimedia (with the Amiga 1000); had switchable GUIs, multiple processors, independent graphics processors, decent (stereo) sound and graphics, and scripting capabilities back before most other computer platforms even thought about such things; had reliably chainable external hardware well before USB; etc. Most of the best programmers I know today started on one of the Commodore series.
You kids. Remember loading the terminal driver for the 33ASR on front panel register switches, then bootstrapping from paper tape? Remember playing Star Trek games that printed out the entire board after every turn?
Remember where i put my teeth?
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Wouldn't a non-portable GPS be kinda pointless? I'm seeing a big rock with "You are here" carved on it.
But it's not back as a 'full' or 'real' computer. It's back as a microcontroller. In either its Atmel AVR or Microchip PIC format.
What has brought it back is the integration of all the minimum memory resources and I/O into the chip itself. That, and the reduction of cost for the 8-bit 'system' from nearly a thousand dollars twenty years ago to about ten dollars today (for CPU, minimal LCD display, and floppy storage.)
Gates-style BASIC is rarely used on new AVRs and PICs, but it is available for the PIC in the BASIC Stamp device.
Eight Bitters are not used as stand-alone home computers but as controllers that intelligently interact and manipulate other machines and sensors. But the -feeling- of raw control; and the wonder of being able to create or reconfigure the operation of a machine through typing instuctions that determine what the machine will do; this feeling remains the same as it was twenty years ago. It's just much cheaper now.
It's also much easier. Both Atmel and Microchip freely distribute high quality development tools for their devices on the web for Windows PCs. And the memory itself is far more easier to use. No more expensive ultra-violet light EPROM erasers. The program is stored in internal Flash that can be rewritten tens of thousands of times. No more $10000 in-circuit-emulators to figure out what the chip is doing when it stops working. With modern JTAG interfaces, every chip has an ICE built in. Even the most complex program can be debugged with a $39 (or less home brew) JTAG-ICE and the factory-supplied free development system programs.
My favorites are the Tiny AVRs. These are eight pin DIP chips that sell for about $1 each. They program through the PC parallel port. They have multi-channel 10-bit Analog-to-Digital convertors built in. (Try finding a 10-bit dedicated ADC chip for $1!) They run at 20 MIPS (about 20 times faster than the Commodore 64) with internal system clock generators, no crystals needed, and the speed can be fine tuned. And they have a flexible, easy-to-use, and easy-to-learn instruction set.
There are even rock-bottom level Tiny AVRs (like the Tiny11) that sell for forty cents each. I use one to play a MIDI tone module with a cheap surplus PS2 PC keyboard. It reads the serial logic signals sent out from each keypress and release and transforms them into MIDI Note On/Off messages. Not bad from a 40 cent CPU.
And a 20MIPS CPU for $1 can replace a whole board of TTL chips. Sure so can a GAL or PLD for the same price. But the AVR can switch into power-down mode when not being used and burn only microAmps of current. It uses only about 10 milliAmps at full 20MIPS speed and a third of that when running at, yes, 1.8 volts! Try that with a GAL, good luck Chuck!
Plus there are lots of people on the specialized web sites from whom to get advice when you get completely stuck on something that makes no sense. Another thing that wasn't around for Eight bitters twenty years ago.
The 8-bit world is alive and dazzling well. It's just very quiet and no longer gets any media coverage as being the 'future' in the way that it was covered by the media in the Commodore and Atari years. It's still rockin'.
This news hit the C64 scene HARD a while ago. The first they did is announce that everyone playing C64 games on emulators was stealing from them since they now owned the name and demanded that they stop. The second thing was to announce an official C64 emulator and that they would sell the old games for it.
I would think their first step should not be to alienate every single interested person in the world. Last I heard, they were completely unrepentant. The Commodore name is going to be a huge money-sink for these people if they don't VERY quickly smarten up and ask their customers what they want.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Imagine what would happen if somebody really did produce a modern-day equivalent to the commodore 64.
1. The C64 had all of its OS in ROM, which meant :
a) No patching could be done after manufacture, so it had to be right the first time
b) No unnecessary features could be added to the OS -- an add-on was required
c) Virus and Root kits were possible, by copying ROM to RAM first and modifying the copied code, but could not survive a cold boot.
d) Instant on
2. The C64 didn't use a native GUI, or DOS or a Unix shell, but the BASIC computer language (also in ROM). Anyone who learned to use the computer at all, was actually using a real computer language. Someone wrote a version of DOS for the 64, and people laughed at him. Who needs DOS when you have full BASIC as the command line?
3. A small tweak to the C64's screen editor converted it into a full screen editor that scrolled BASIC programs in both direction.
4. It used a standard TV for video output.
Now, I know this Dutch company is just using the Commodore name, but if you didn't have to worry about backward compatibility, what would a 21st Century version of the Commodore look like?
1. The OS written in 100% optimized machine language (not C++ or any other high-level language) and stored in ROM, so it could not be changed by malware (not even Sony's). The computer would, therefore, be instant-on.
2. The computer would power-up with a command-line window using some sort of easy-to-use language (any suggestions for something your Mom would be able to handle?)
3. The command-line would appear on a GUI screen of some sort (perhaps something like the XBox-360's?), and be a full-blown GUI text editor with syntax highlighting.
4. Connect natively to an HDTV, with settings for multiple resolutions including 1080p
5. Native output for 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound as well as stereo.
6. Dual-format HD DVD player/recorder
7. Native wireless networking
8. Native wireless keyboard, pointer (mouse, pad, whatever), and game controllers
9. Optional SATA hard drive
10. Optional model with built-in integrated HDTV receiver and PVR software
Anything I missed in this fantasy machine? Use a 64 bit CPU, and you can even call it a C-64! Now, not having played with one, I can't say how close this is to a real-life Xbox360, or a PS3, but I don't think either one is intended to be a computer, and I know Microsoft would have a fit trying to write optimized assembly code that worked right the first time, without patches or bloat. As for Sony, we know that they'll probably build their malware right into the PS3 from the beginning to save us all the trouble of installing it for them
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)
He didn't. Tramiel's Atari lost a dirty bidding war with Commodore for Amiga, Inc's technologies. If Atari had won, they would have used the chips to make a new console platform and probably kick out Miner & co.
The guy you want is Mehdi Ali, who along with Irving Gould ran Commodore to the ground as fast as they could. They are ultimately responsible for creating a company that would throw out any real innovation coming out of the engineering department and going for fast bucks instead. No R&D, just cheap crippled products -- that was Commodore in the 90's. They should have started a next-gen Amiga project as soon as they got the A500 on the market, but they didn't. And when Engineering *did* have a brilliant product (the A3000+) it was scrapped. And when Sun would have sold (shitloads of) rebadged A3000's as Unix workstations, the deal fell through because C= thought they could conquer the Unix market themselves. And...
Whatever. Commodore remains one of the great examples of management by idiocy.