Wikipedia Founder Edits Own Bio

*Not* policy, just a guideline by idonthack · 2005-12-20 07:46 · Score: 5, Interesting

OP:

Wikipedia's policy on autobiography

Wikipedia's page, linked to in that phrase:

This page is considered a guideline on Wikipedia. It illustrates standards of conduct, which many editors agree with in principle. However, it is not policy.

Emphasis mine, on both. Of course, on the same page is this:

"It is a social faux pas to write about yourself," according to Jimmy Wales, Wikipedia's founder.

Ooops.
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Re:*Not* policy, just a guideline by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-20 07:47 · Score: 5, Funny

Oh come on... if someone vandalizes your bio to say "I love the cock" you wouldn't change it too?
Re:*Not* policy, just a guideline by BushCheney08 · 2005-12-20 07:48 · Score: 5, Funny

Of course I'd change it. The word "the" absolutely doesn't belong there.

--
Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
Re:*Not* policy, just a guideline by MikeBabcock · 2005-12-20 07:56 · Score: 4, Informative

There's a difference between writing about one's self ("Michael is a genius") and editing out others' comments about one's self ("Michael is an ass^H^H^H").

In any case, Wikipedia allows the viewing of historical changes; so people can be held accountable for such edits anyway.

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Re:*Not* policy, just a guideline by Fulcrum+of+Evil · 2005-12-20 08:15 · Score: 5, Funny

Of course I'd change it. The word "the" absolutely doesn't belong there.

I think you're missing the point. The correct phrase is "I love my cock."

--
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Re:*Not* policy, just a guideline by IndigoZenith · 2005-12-20 08:26 · Score: 5, Funny

This would probably have to be marked a "stub"...

--
"If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried"
Re:*Not* policy, just a guideline by JVert · 2005-12-20 08:50 · Score: 5, Funny

Has it really come to this now?

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/12/16
Re:*Not* policy, just a guideline by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-20 09:14 · Score: 4, Funny

The correct phrase is "I love my cock."

That's a given - every guy loves their cock. The purpose of the article is to inform the reader of something they do not know yet. Thus, the correct phrase is "4 out of 5 dentists love my cock."
Re:*Not* policy, just a guideline by Ratbert42 · 2005-12-20 10:59 · Score: 3, Funny

As long as it's not marked for deletion.

Why is this news? by Kelson · 2005-12-20 07:46 · Score: 5, Insightful

I thought it was extremely silly that this showed up on Wired. Now it's doubly silly that it's shown up on Slashdot.

I mean, seriously, the last time there was a controversy over someone's Wikipedia bio, the suggestion was that he should've fixed the errors himself, right?

As for violating policy -- that "policy" itself says "This page is considered a guideline on Wikipedia. It illustrates standards of conduct, which many editors agree with in principle. However, it is not policy." In RFC terms, that's a SHOULD NOT, rather than a MUST NOT. (And that's not a new, self-justifying edit, either.) Yeah, it's a little tacky, but as long as he's making corrections and not inserting falsehoods, it's a matter for a gossip column, not tech news.

Re:Why is this news? by suso · 2005-12-20 07:51 · Score: 5, Funny

I thought it was extremely silly that this showed up on Wired. Now it's doubly silly that it's shown up on Slashdot.

And now its become even more silly that people are commenting about it.
Re:Why is this news? by Kelson · 2005-12-20 08:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

Does even its own founder really believe in it, when it comes to information he personally cares about?

Given that he made a few edits instead of locking it down, I'd guess the answer is "yes."

NOTE: not a violation of "policy" by yagu · 2005-12-20 07:46 · Score: 3, Informative

A point of order from the slashdot "article"... from the article:

Wired News reports that Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales has edited his own entry in the online encyclopedia at least 18 times, in violation of Wikipedia's policy on autobiography

But, the actual link includes in the very first paragraph:

This page is considered a guideline on Wikipedia. It illustrates standards of conduct, which many editors agree with in principle. However, it is not policy.

While there may be a patina of suspicion for self-edited bio's, it doesn't sound like Wales committed any overt actions warranting this scrutiny. (for example, I've just visited bomis.com, and had it not been referred to in this article as potentially a porn or soft-porn site, I never would have guessed by scanning the home page -- his "correction" is probably warranted.) I guess it's a price to pay for the internet fame.

So what? by Pig+Hogger · 2005-12-20 07:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

If it's to remove bullshit and/or to straighten the record???

Wow. by Mille+Mots · 2005-12-20 07:46 · Score: 5, Funny

Stuff that matters. Finally!

Slashdot sez... by FooAtWFU · 2005-12-20 07:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.

I mean, come on. If you want to throw dirt at Wikipedia, can't you come up with something better than this? Not news, people. Not news at all.

--
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.

in other news by Tibor+the+Hun · 2005-12-20 07:48 · Score: 4, Funny

Well, as long as we're posting shit I'd like to add that I used the bathroom twice today, had a good lunch and installed a new monitor.
I'm also considering making a dupe of this post later in the conversation.
What have other /.ers done today?

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If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.

Re:in other news by Stephen+Williams · 2005-12-20 08:07 · Score: 5, Funny

I'm also considering making a dupe of this post later in the conversation.

I could almost have saved you the bother with my reply, because I've also used the bathroom and had a nice meal today. However, it wouldn't quite be a dupe because I didn't install a new monitor. Instead, I did a load of laundry and ironing, and packed my suitcase for a trip tomorrow.

Thanks for telling us all about your day!

-Stephen

Really... by ElGnomo · 2005-12-20 07:48 · Score: 4, Insightful

Critical question: Who cares? Why is this important?

It must be "beat up on Wikipedia week" by yppiz · 2005-12-20 07:49 · Score: 4, Interesting

It seems like everyone is jumping on Wikipedia this week. Seriously, who's writing these talking points?

--Pat

Re:It must be "beat up on Wikipedia week" by SoTuA · 2005-12-20 08:15 · Score: 4, Funny

You think? ;)

Bit misleading by chrisbtoo · 2005-12-20 07:49 · Score: 3, Informative

First, it's a guideline, not a policy.

Also, the first revision of the Autobiography page states:

This is a proposed new guideline. Don't take it seriously yet!!

If you, or something you are responsible for, is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, somebody else will do it soon enough. Let them do it.

Note that this guideline is not intended to discourage people who have articles about themselves or their works from contributing to those articles in the interests of accuracy and fairness.

JW didn't edit the page until over a year after it was created, so not really against the guideline, either.

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Registering accounts later than some other chrisb since 1997

He's not the only one getting caught by u2boy_nl · 2005-12-20 07:49 · Score: 5, Interesting

Recently Adam Curry was caught changing the Wikipedia article about 'podcasting'. (You know, the amazing technology which allows you to download audio from the internet and then listen to it!!!!)

Former MTV veejay and podcasting entrepreneur Adam Curry appears to have been caught anonymously editing the podcasting entry on Wikipedia to remove credit from other people and inflate his role in its creation.

http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/news/2818

latest entry by joemawlma · 2005-12-20 07:51 · Score: 4, Funny

"Jimmy Whales also has a 12-inch... um, ruler?"

Write vs Edit by Valiss · 2005-12-20 07:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

Not that I have an opinion either way ('cause I don't), but it seems to me that he did not write about himself, but rather edited content about his entry. I don't see why editing your bio, espcially to correct errors, would be such a terrible crime worthy of news.

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-Valiss

Re:Write vs Edit by tomhudson · 2005-12-20 08:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales has edited his own entry in the online encyclopedia at least 18 times, in violation of Wikipedia's policy on autobiography.
This is dumb. ... the wiki is just as bad
You should wait for others to write an article about subjects in which you are personally involved. This particularly applies to autobiographies

The only person, by definition, who CAN write an autobiograhy about Wales is Wales.
definition: autobiography: The biography of a person written by that person.

Is english the first language of any of the editors of slashdot or wikimedia?
Re:Write vs Edit by timster · 2005-12-20 08:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

Nonsense. Anyone who has ever tried to write an article about anything knows that it is quite difficult to come up with something that is one hundred percent accurate. There are plenty of errors in the Encyclopedia Brittanica, as demonstrated by the recent study.

Please distinguish between the PROCESS of Wikipedia and the CONTENT of Wikipedia. Certainly it's possible to find errors in the content, but these do not prove that the process is invalid unless the number of errors is excessive (see again the recent study). Similarly, attempting to "prove" that the process is invalid through some logical stroke (as you have attempted to do) is irrelevant unless you can show that the theoretical problems with the process do meaningful damage to the content.

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I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
Re:Write vs Edit by PenguiN42 · 2005-12-20 08:42 · Score: 5, Insightful

Simple: because it shows the anonymous masses got it wrong, which undermines the very foundation of Wikipedia.

The "very foundation of Wikipedia" is not that the "anonymous masses" will get everything 100% correct. Claiming that this is the case is a pretty disingenuous strawman. I see you got 5 insightful points out of it, too, which points to a growing, somewhat confusing, anti-wikipedia fever on Slashdot.

If nothing else, what does it say for the accuracy of the vast majority of Wikipedia biographies about people who *don't* closely monitor their own entries?

This has nothing to do with biographies, but rather is about all articles on wikipedia: There are going to be some mistakes. Don't use an encyclopedia as a primary source. Nothing new here, please move along.

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The following sentence is true. The preceding sentence was false.
Re:Write vs Edit by rbarreira · 2005-12-20 09:27 · Score: 3, Informative

No I didn't. Apparently you missed MY point. The second sentence says exactly the same as the first one, it's just a particular case. Another way of writing the text would be:

You should wait for others to write an article about subjects in which you are personally involved. This is also true if you're writing a biographical article, in which case you would be writing an autobiography

This is just a more verbose way of saying it, but it's exactly what they mean with the sentence... And that's exactly why the wikipedia article is called "Autobiographies"

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Re:Write vs Edit by AlvySinger · 2005-12-20 09:31 · Score: 3, Insightful

So when John Seigenthaler is libelled, the crowd shout: he could edit it to make it correct.

When a Wiki bod edits their own entry it's wrong.

I know this is /. a place where reason comes a distant second to dogma, but sheesh, really. At least having it every which way means you're never wrong, right?

i feel libelous by sardonic2 · 2005-12-20 07:52 · Score: 3, Funny

WAIT! didn't that dude who was involved in the murder of Kennedy change his own Biography? He's the one that started all this shit

About WP:AUTO by thephotoman · 2005-12-20 07:52 · Score: 4, Insightful

Actually, he didn't create the article, but has just edited it for factual information. This is perfectly kosher, even if it is a faux paus socially. Other notable WP contributors have edited pages about themselves, providing factual information only.

Furthermore, it's his website, he can do whatever the hell he wants with it.

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Haec merda tauri est. Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Re:About WP:AUTO by geoffspear · 2005-12-20 08:23 · Score: 3, Insightful

Furthermore, it's his website, he can do whatever the hell he wants with it.
It's fine for you to believe that, as long as you're not also one of the people who belives that WP should be taken seriously as a source of unbiased research.
Personally, I don't care if he edits the article on oxygen to claim it has an atomic weight of 600, and then locks the entry from further editing. It's his website, and I don't use it for research. Those who do take it seriously should have second thoughts if he shares your attitude, though.

--
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.

That's an amusing trick by Demona · 2005-12-20 07:55 · Score: 4, Funny

considering Mr. Wales was shot dead last week. Apparently he's editing his own entry from the grave. (Sweet Lord, do those clowns at the Register need to get laid.)

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Fuck Slashdot

Is this a good policy? by massysett · 2005-12-20 08:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

The article actually invokes some interesting questions which the discussion here isn't quite getting at. Wikipedia has a policy/guideline that says it's ill-advised for persons to edit their own biographies. The question is, is this a good policy/guideline?

On the one hand, Wales' case shows why it might be a good policy to advise against people editing their own biographies. He insists that the other man was not a "co-founder" of Wikipedia. Wales is in a position to know this, and it seems to me to be a bad idea to bar knowledgeable people from editing articles. Clearly Wales is knowledgeable about his own life.

On the other hand, it looks like Wales was trying to rewrite history. It appears likely that his Bomis Babes was at least so-called "adult entertainment," the modern euphamism for porn. He often removed these references to porn entirely. This seems to be injecting falsehood and bias into Wikipedia.

A lot of the Slashdot reaction has been "why does this matter" but it really does invoke some interesting questions if you stop for a minute to think about it.

--
Penny - plain text accounting

Re:you are an ass by TubeSteak · 2005-12-20 08:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

You'd think that since he's the FOUNDER, he would have some wikipedia equivalent of root.

In other words, why wasn't he able to edit his own entry without having his edits tracked?

Like you, I think the fact that he left his actions apparent for anyone to follow shows that he didn't think there was anything wrong with his edits.

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[Fuck Beta]
o0t!

Not quite. by CarpetShark · 2005-12-20 08:32 · Score: 4, Informative

Ermm, you're forgetting that he is one of the masses too. No one is particularly anonymous. Nor is he special enough that his entries wouldn't be changed if others thought they were wrong. So, he's just another peer, contributing to a great site. Nothing new there for Wikipedia :)

The latest attempt at silencing wikipedia by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-20 08:34 · Score: 5, Interesting

This is just the latest FUD piece from a webzine attacking wikipedia. Many in the internet media have been attacking Wikipedia because it threatens the viability of their businesses. Despite millions of denizens' acceptence and support of wikipedia, legacy webzines continue to try and paint wikipedia as this evil rogue web venture hell bent on distorting truth. This is the sixth salvo from Wired this month alone ( http://search.wired.com/wnews/default.asp?query=wi kipedia ).

Wow, lots of anger so far... by deacon · 2005-12-20 08:39 · Score: 5, Informative

All modded +5 of course...

And not much analysis of facts on the ground.

Let's Begin:

Claim 1 from Wired:

Public edit logs reveal that Wales has changed his own Wikipedia bio 18 times, deleting phrases describing former Wikipedia employee Larry Sanger as a co-founder of the site.

If Larry Sanger was a co-founder, (I don't know and don't have time to check) deleting that fact is at the very least petty and vindictive. It does not really matter if it is or is not against some "code" or "guideline". Giving credit where credit is due is the right thing to do. Deleting credit over and over again... well, you will each come to your own conclusion.

Claim 2 from Wired:

Cadenhead said other Wikipedia editors described Bomis Babes as "soft-core pornography," but Wales changed it to "adult content section" on Sept. 4, and later twice removed references to pornography, instead describing it as "Bomis Babes blog based on Slashcode."

Going to Bomis Babes here: http://www.bomis.com/tree/babe gives me two sponsored links at the top of the page, cut and pasted one of them below:

Searching for Porn?

Slashdot Mirror

Wikipedia Founder Edits Own Bio

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