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Robot Demonstrates Self-awareness

Posted by samzenpus on from the why-did-you-program-me-to-feel-pain dept.

shinyplasticbag writes "A new robot can recognize the difference between a mirror image of itself and another robot that looks just like it. ... The ground-breaking technology could eventually lead to robots able to express emotions."

21 of 362 comments (clear)

  1. Shenanigans on a robot??? by dada21 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The minute I read this commentary I thought of a way to do this: LEDs blinking randomly and being matched up by robots as their own. I read the article second, and guess what? That isn't how this works, but it seems similar. In fact, I think they should just put together a basic infrared (invisible) LED, make the robot blink it at a really complex pattern, and if it reads that blinking in a mirror, it not only knows that it is itself, but it also knows how far away it is. LEDs can transmit tens of thousands of cycles of on/off patterns, right? I guess another robot could read this LED, perform an act, and send the same message back, making the original robot believe it's looking in a mirror farther away, but there are ways to fix that (multiple LEDs at a set distance).

    I call shens on this self aware robot. Can you do that?

    Self awareness is more than seeing a pattern you know you are doing and realizing its you doing it. Self awareness to me means "I know I exist" not just "Hey! That's me!"

    Scientists reinvent the same wheel as always, and then say how it will save society. Reason? Finding investors/grants.

  2. Not Self Awareness by MikeWasHere05 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This isn't really self-awareness, just some good vision techniques. It recognizes key features of it's "face" compared to the normal face. Reminds me of the kind of things they use in face-recognition for security.

  3. Define "Self Aware" by civman2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think being able to tell the difference between a reflection and not a reflection makes a robot self aware. True self awareness comes when a robot can actually think and communicate in ways it wasn't originally programmed to.

    1. Re:Define "Self Aware" by TekPolitik · · Score: 4, Interesting
      You're still right, the robots have not achieved self-awareness

      There is a much deeper problem in the title than this. It is, quite simply, impossible for one being to prove its self-awareness to another. We may be able to make some sort of educated guess as to things being self-aware, but there is no way we can directly observe or experience the self-awareness of another being. This is by definition, since self-awareness is that recognition of one's own existence a a separate entity that is unique to and inseparable from that entity - it is not merely the reaction of the bio-machine to its environment no matter how complex and seemingly independent that reaction.

      The Star Trek TNG episode "The Measure of A Man" gives a fairly good explanation of the problem. Even if we develop a non-biological machine that mimics in all respects the behaviour of a human, down to the finest of details, we will have no way of determining whether that machine is self-aware. A corollory of this is that we have no way of determining if any particular machine is not self-aware. You are probably fairly confident your computer is not self-aware, but just try proving it. If you think that you can prove something is, or is not, self-aware, then you have probably not understood the problem.

  4. don't worry about skynet...just yet by scenestar · · Score: 4, Funny

    these things can easily be defeaten by stairs.

    --
    perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
  5. Re:Mirroring Robots by rbarreira · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What I want to know is, if we build two of these robots, position them facing each other, and instruct one of them to mirror the other one (i.e. lift your left leg when his right leg is lifted), can the first one recognize someone is mirroring it?

    Maybe you could RTFA instead of striving for First Post ;)

    --

    The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
  6. Amazing ! by acaspis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most ridiculously overhyped slashdot headline ! Ever !

  7. WHY!?!?! by DaFallus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why was I programmed to feel pain!!!

    --
    No one cares what your captcha was

    Houston TX, USA
  8. Defining Self Awareness by betasam · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Demonstrating "Self Awareness" is one thing, but defining it is probably the first step. I don't think there is a commonly accepted definition for this. The ability of two perfectly identical twins (hypothetically) to distinguish themselves, IMO is not self awareness, that's self identification. If a robot can identify itself in a group photograph, standing besides several other model look-alikes accurately (I wonder how this could be done), then that is self identification. I have trouble identifying one chimp from another, but no trouble distinguishing one human from another, sometimes even identical twins. Humans can identify their dog from a group of dogs of the same breed as theirs - clearly that's not "self-awareness". The same can be said for other pets or those working closely with wild animals. I believe there should be a different term used here.

    --
    No Greater Friend, No Greater Enemy! (Lucius Cornelius Sulla)
  9. I'm disappointed with you, Nexus 6 by Yst · · Score: 5, Funny
    Ah, so our task is as yet not accomplished.

    You see, poster, you, yourself are a robot precisely like the robot described in this article. In fact, you are the selfsame robot described therein. We've presented to you a Slashdot story about yourself and you've failed to realise that the story is in fact about you. And so the experiment fails.

    For our next experiment: determining a method for causing Slashdot editors to recognise a mirror image of a story they've already accepted only just hours prior.

    --
    Karma: Chameleon (comes and goes)
  10. a great man once said: by MORTAR_COMBAT! · · Score: 5, Interesting

    the question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than whether a submarine can swim.

    Edsger Dijkstra

    Now, before you dismiss it, he also said one of the great truths:

    The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense.

    --
    MORTAR COMBAT!
  11. but the true test... by User+956 · · Score: 5, Funny

    This isn't really self-awareness, just some good vision techniques. It recognizes key features of it's "face" compared to the normal face.

    But the real question is, can it find Sarah Connor?

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
  12. Definitions? by lawpoop · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Do the fields of AI or evolutionary psychology have any definitions of "self-awareness" or "consciousness"?

    I see a lot of stuff in the popular press about a robot or computer becoming aware, but everyone seems to totally ignore what exactly the definition is. How do we know that most people are aware? If I say that I know that I am aware, what exact claim am I making?

    I had a philosophy professor in college, Tom Kasulis, who studied Eastern and Western philosophy. He had a breakthrough moment when he went to study in a Zen Monastery. In order to enter, he had to do a 'pre-interview' with the abbot, a Zen Master. The master asked him, "What is Zen"? Kasulis mumbled somthing about it being a practice, not a belief. The Abott responded, "Zen is -- knowing one's self. It is the same undertaking that Western Philophers undertook."

    Kasulis taught my class about Hindu philosophy of the self or soul and the supersoul ( Atman and Brahman ). I thought some of it might be a useful high-level definition of self-awareness in AI. It goes something like this:

    Q. Are you aware?
    A. Yes.
    Q. Are you aware that you are aware?
    A. Yes.
    Q. Are you aware that you are aware that you are aware?
    A. Yes.
    Q. Are you aware that you are aware that you are aware...?

    So, you see it leads to a never ending chain of awareness. In Hindu philosophy, the ultimate awareness, the 'unseen see-er', the entire infinite chain of awareness, is the Atman, or the supersoul that transcends the individual.

    In the AI realm, we could build a machine that had two components: a perception system (vision, sound, whatever) and a detection-of-perception system ( a 'true' output if it percieves a system that can percieve ). Once the perception system falls on the system itself, it will detect a perception system. It will 'know' that it 'knows'. Then, it will detect another perception system in the original act of perception. Then, it will detect that act of perception, and in turn that act of perception... ad infinitum

    The self's perception of the self has this hall-of-mirrors quality that does not occur when the self perceives others of the same kind.

    You can take it one step futher and detect other self-aware systems if you can somehow detect this self-detection in other systems. However, I haven't figured out a logical argument for how to do this.

    I humbly submit my hall-of-mirrors definition of self-awareness. What does the Slashdot non-liberal arts majors make of it?

    --
    Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
    -- Pablo Picasso
    1. Re:Definitions? by FireballX301 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      At a point, ask:

      'Are you aware this is an infinite loop, and if so can you stop it?'

      Once a computer can stop the loop recognizing that it is infinite, but also differentiate it between non-infinite loops through a single function, then they are self aware.

      I probably mangled it but here's the relevant link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem

  13. Article Is Possibly Misleading by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Since the exact technology (artifical neurons?) is not described in detail as to how they work, ascribing "self-awareness" to this experiment is "claiming too much."

    Also, use of the word "understanding" may be claiming too much in the absence of any evidence of conceptual processing in either the neurons or the software.

    Still, it's an interesting bit of work, which may prove useful if it can be extended.

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  14. The real test by Belseth · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you are trying to test for human behavior in a robot pour hot coffee on one. If it's first reaction is to call it's lawyer I think we have a winner.

  15. You're right, but... by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the reference to self-awareness here is based on psychological understandings of self-awareness in human beings. Since Freud the understanding of human self-awareness has located the "mirror stage" as the key moment in child development, the point at which the child becomes aware of him/herself as an independent "self." Of course, the mistake here is to believe that the mirror stage itself is both a necessary and sufficient condition for self-awareness; it is for humans a necessary condition, but it is not a sufficient condition for any entity. Especially in this case, where the robots pass the mirror stage by what is essentially trickery in this context -- achieving not self-awareness but an ability to manifest a particular symptom of self-awareness.

    1. Re:You're right, but... by GenSolo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have to disagree that the mirror image is a necessary condition for humans. People who are born sightless still develop into self-aware adults. The recoginition of a mirror image as oneself is a key point at which the child demonstrates awareness and the ability to recognize said independent "self". Frankly, it's just a point where kids figure out that shiny objects reflect light and infer that the image in the mirror must be them. Self-awareness is a prerequisite.

    2. Re:You're right, but... by Rob+Carr · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Being the owner of parrots, I have a question about this:

      Does the concept of "recognizing self by mirror" require the concept of "mirror?" If someone doesn't understand what a mirror does, then they may fail the test but actually be self-aware.

      Brain injury patients teach us that there are circuits in the brain for things we wouldn't expect. A stroke patient lost the concept of "left." She could only eat half of a piece of cake in front of her -- her brain wouldn't recognize the other half. She learned to turn the plate, so that a piece of cake would magically appear! Doing this several times, the cake was essentially consumed.

      If the concept of "left" can be lost, what about concept of "mirror?" A human may be capable of reasoning out that the person in the mirror must be me, but for creatures that are less intelligent, I'm not so sure.

      One of our smarter parrots does not seem to recognize herself in the mirror. She attacks the mirror image. A second parrot seems to understand the concept of "camera." I once connected a video camera directly to the TV and videotaped him -- he began to experiment with moving and watching the parrot on the TV move. All of a sudden, he began to show off and...strut. Ever since then, he shows off for cameras and struts when he sees a photo of himself. He won't strut when he sees a parrot of his own species that is not him. (Note: I don't know if he's cueing on backgrounds to tell if the parrot is him or if he can identify himself.) He's the only parrot in the house that doesn't like anacondas on Animal Planet. Raptors also upset him. Most parrots don't watch TV, the refresh rate is too slow. But somehow he does.

      I'd love to know how Alex the Parrot responds to "Who?" when looking at a mirror. One could start out by positioning the mirror so that someone else is visible, someone Alex could name. Then, by changing the angle of the mirror, have Alex look at Alex.

      --
      This sig seemed like a good idea at the time....
  16. Not a New Robot. Not a New Algorithm. by RJSIII · · Score: 5, Informative

    First off, this is NOT a new robot. The robot pictured is a commercially available mobile robot called Khepera II. These robots are fairly stupid, but are easily tethered to more capable machines via a 19200 baud serial link. Mostly, they're used in research (usually undergraduate) because there are whole hosts of Matlab libraries available to interface to these buggers.

    bot=kopen([0,19200,1]); % open a connection to tethered robot on /dev/ttyS0 at 19200 baud with one second timeout

    And so on and so forth. The Khepera robots have been available for many years, along with the k-team matlab resources. That aside, what the robot in question seems to be doing is using the Matlab Neural Network Toolbox to recognize and classify behavior by observation. Sorry folks, but kids at underfunded state schools do this as undergraduate work in AI. This is nothing new.

  17. I'm so sick of these kinds of headlines by photon317 · · Score: 4, Insightful


    AI? Whatever. Among serious theorists, it is pretty widely accepted that we will never reach a goal of true, hard AI (as in, something we created which is truly every bit as smart, independant, creative and "alive" as us, or even more) by cobbling together algorithms like this. It will come about by building the right sort of neural-net building blocks, arranging them in roughly the right kind of networks (probably via genetic selection algorithms rather than manually), and then teaching it much in the way one raises and teaches a small child. That's *if* we can solve the huge problems that still lie in our way going down that path (not the least of which is raw processing power).

    This kind of shit isn't even in the right ballpark, and it's not going down the right road, and it's simply not productive in the long term. But gee, it gets headlines and research grants because it makes laymen say "ohhh neat". AI scientists of the world - I challenge you to get off your collective asses, stop pandering to morons, and get down to business with the decades of work that remain to be done.

    --
    11*43+456^2