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11 Design Mistakes of the Xbox 360

An anonymous reader writes "FiringSquad.com has posted an article discussing 11 design flaws of the Xbox 360, ranging from gaming to Xbox Live Marketplace issues." From the article: "Mistake #2: No MSN Music - I'm as much of a fan of DRM as everyone else (which is to say I don't like it), but with Microsoft already charging gamers for Xbox Live Gold support, it would have been possible for Microsoft to offer discount service "bundles" allowing you to buy unlimited subscriptions to the MSN Music library at rates less than you would have to pay for Napster or Rhapsody. Gamers would have had an opportunity to get music cheaper and add one extra weapon in the console battle against Sony." I'm not so sure some of these are that big a deal. I'm more than a little glad the 360 has no web browser.

103 comments

  1. might i be the first to say... by mattmacf · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Gee, only 11?

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    I only mod funny =D
    1. Re:might i be the first to say... by Golias · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Gee, only 11?

      Actually, there's only one.

      The X-Box 360 clearly has heat management issues in some models (not most, but the early scuttlebut seems to be that it's more than one would expect.)

      The author goes on some weird rant, based on the one and only 360 he has access to, speculating that other people's reports about overheating power supplied must be bullshit because his problem happened to seem to be with the CPU and/or graphics card.

      So, why 10 more "problems"?

      So you will have to load 10 more pages to read this useless "article." Nobody gives a fuck that there's not web browser built in to this game console (just like there's none in any other major console on the market), but you will need to load ad after ad to discover that such nitpicks are the best this joker can come up with.

      Pathetic.

      (Disclaimer: I don't own a 360, and won't unless or until there's a better selection of games available for it.)

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    2. Re:might i be the first to say... by Gulthek · · Score: 1

      Using adblock and noscript that whole article loads onto one page. The only clue I had that lesser browsers would be annoyed is the header text saying next page. :-)

    3. Re:might i be the first to say... by Golias · · Score: 1

      It's before 5:00 in most of the US. Some of us are reading from work during our down-time.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    4. Re:might i be the first to say... by Gulthek · · Score: 1

      Like...me? Who doesn't have firefox at work? Here at UNC it's the only thing we use. IE is practically banned and Mozilla is fading fast as more and more people learn about extensions.

    5. Re:might i be the first to say... by apoc06 · · Score: 1

      granted, its a handheld console... but the embedded webbrowser of the PSP v2.0+ have been overly well recieved by PSP owners. popups are a non-issue. given that the x360 is able to display a much larger screen area, supports mouse + keyboard, and actually can hold much more in its memory buffer... i dont see why they wont release a webbrowser.

      i guess since its a MS product they would be strongarmed into using internet explorer. that would open the x360 up to spyware and the whole security hole+patch+hole+patch+hole+servicepack+hole+patch cycle they would want to avoid.

    6. Re:might i be the first to say... by Flendon · · Score: 1

      I work in a government office. "Firefox has not been proven secure and is not authorized." WTF?! Then why is IE on here?! Then again that doesn't mean I'm not using Firefox. ;) My coworkers though all fight over the few machines that it magically appeared on despite the admins best efforts. I have to say though that I have noscript and adblock installed and I still get 9 pages.

      --
      chown -R us ./base
  2. "No web browser" by amrust · · Score: 1

    I don't see why they couldn't include this, either. I remember being upset that Sony didn't include one with the PS2 network adapter. 360, being a Microsoft product, should surely have shipped with a bundled IE of some form or fashion.

    Even though I prefer Firefox, MS really dropped the ball without including a simple browser.

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    VOTE!
    1. Re:"No web browser" by oringo · · Score: 1

      It's not difficult to include a stable web browser with 360; the original Xbox has a a homebrew browser (linksboks). The problem is how to keep it safe and up-to-date with the ever-evolving web exploits. The last thing MS wants to see was 30 million 360's get turned into a botnet.

    2. Re:"No web browser" by amrust · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The problem is how to keep it safe and up-to-date with the ever-evolving web exploits.

      How hard would that be? They have an automatic updater in WindowsXP, couldn't they do the same for 360? And how would someone even introduce their own online virus code via the Xbox Live network?

      Not saying it couldn't happen, because I know better than that. But what's the difference in potentially exploitable Windows PCs, and potentially exploitable 360s? The potential for exploit never stopped M$ from bundling IE in Windows. "Why should it hold them back on the 360?", was basically my question.

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      VOTE!
    3. Re:"No web browser" by oringo · · Score: 1

      Automatic updater:
      Windows has had automatic update for a while now, and we still see tons of exploits. Not to mention that a lot of the patches actually break applications.

      How to spread the virus:
      Simple, just make a malicious webiste with a few bugged pictures. IE exploits didn't need Xbox Live.

      What's holding them back?
      Perhaps they realized how difficult browser security is. The difference between 1 million compromised 360 and 1 million compromised winbox is that the latter is known to be a problem, while the consumers generally don't expect their tv to suddenly start popping up porn pictures. Expect tons of lawsuits if this happens.

    4. Re:"No web browser" by amrust · · Score: 1
      What's holding them back? Perhaps they realized how difficult browser security is...

      I LOL'D

      The difference between 1 million compromised 360 and 1 million compromised winbox is that the latter is known to be a problem, while the consumers generally don't expect their tv to suddenly start popping up porn pictures. Expect tons of lawsuits if this happens.

      Here's what I'd expect: A couple of token lawsuits, that would get nowhere. Like the people who lawyer up and try to sue M$ when their kid "mistakenly" downloads pr0n onto the family PC.

      Then again, there was that whole deal with the PSP, and the wipe exploit... But that was from people intentionally running homebrew code on them. I'm talking about someone having their 360 infected from viewing a webpage via the internal browser? I just don't see it happening.

      /but knows it's possible.

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      VOTE!
    5. Re:"No web browser" by iainl · · Score: 1

      OK, a few points:

      1) you can't break applications with browser patches if you don't call the browser in the applications. Virtually impossible under XP due to the way it's integrated with the rest of the OS, I'll grant you. But the "OS" of the 360 is just staying out of the way while you play games; it has nothing web-related to do.

      2) Would anyone really care that much if there were 'features' (the ActiveX rubbish that causes most of the holes) that they didn't put in a silly little 360 browser that wasn't designed to replace your full PC? I don't think so.

      Apart from anything, we're finally outputting to a resolution where reading text won't necessarily be a chore. It would be nice to exploit that opportunity with a sofa-viewable browser.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
  3. Web Browser by Eightyford · · Score: 1

    I'm more than a little glad the 360 has no web browser.

    Why?

    1. Re:Web Browser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine if the 360's web browser (which would probably be IE) could run ActiveX, and thus get infected with spyware and viruses. Figures out how to install itself and a rootkit on the hard drive. With closed-source proprietary hardware there'd be no way to clean that sucker out.

    2. Re:Web Browser by Pxtl · · Score: 1

      And if it couldn't run ActiveX or other extensions, you'd have users pissing and moaning about how the XBox suxx because they can't use it on Newgrounds.

    3. Re:Web Browser by InsaneLampshade · · Score: 1

      Newgrounds works fine for me, and i'm using Firefox with no ActiveX.

  4. There are at least 11 by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1, Informative

    The biggest thing to me is how much potential Microsoft has each time with its consoles and how they manage to not even come close to fulfilling any of it. They have hands-down the best online system, they have the raw power, they have the money, they have the marketing, they have the glitz and glamour... yet they fall flat on their face and have a pitiful pricing structure for the marketplace, poor launch lineup (with Kameo way too overhyped), design issues/flaws, no titles supporting the multiple threads (not even 1st party title or even just ONE game), barely shipping any units, hassling customers about defective units (and now not giving shipping dates even), basically lying about shipping every week up to Christmas, Lying about the power supply issues, the preposterous claims about the "best launch lineup ever," the unknown number of complaints AFTER Christmas once they are all opened, the confusion that will be had over two different versions of the 360, the piss-poor backwards compatability issues, and on and on...

    11 flaws is being kind, no matter what your stance on the 360 is.

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    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    1. Re:There are at least 11 by Khuffie · · Score: 1
      Got that flamebaiting out of your system?

      No games supporting multiple threads? PGR3 uses all 3 cores. So do almost every other launch game. Poor launch lineup? Compared to what? The PS2 or Gamecube? Which both had crap or limited number of games at launch? Pitiful pricing structure? Then why are they being sold out?

    2. Re:There are at least 11 by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I was absolutely not flamebaiting, and you are completely wrong with your facts.

      PGR3 does NOT use all three cores, some launch titles are using 2 cores but only in limited capacity such as a second thread for AI. I'd love for you to show a link proving your outrageous claim.

      If you honestly think the Marketplace pricing structure is good then you are a fool. There are no price breaks for buying more points and the cost in points on certain downloads is just insane. There should be tiered price-breaks in buying points to give some reward to those who buy more.

      The launch titles were pretty weak overall, again, I'm not debating this... it is very apparent.

      So basically out of all of the ACCURATE pros/cons I listed you tried to pick apart only three of them and of those you were wrong on all accounts. Now, who's holding that flamethrower?

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      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    3. Re:There are at least 11 by RoadDoggFL · · Score: 1

      Why does a game have to use both threads on all three cores to make you happy? Just enjoy the damn game.

      I'm sure after a while there'll be a tiered system for marketplace points, but how is this a flaw if it's not even an option for other consoles? So MS does something cool and new and you hate them because they didn't do it perfectly? This is MS we're talking about here.

      It's funny that you're not even debating the launch and comparing it to the PS2's or GC's because you can't. It's an average launch lineup (not "window" bullshit, I mean the games on shelves on the 22nd) at worst.

      Stop being such a fanboy and just wait patiently for your PS3, Revolution, or fire up a game on your PC.

      --
      "This is considered plagiarism."
    4. Re:There are at least 11 by Khuffie · · Score: 3, Informative
      About the cores, the interview is in EDGE Magazine. Though You can find a response from Bizarre's site admin about the cores in PGR3 here. Geometry Wars also uses all three cores.

      Guess what? Here's your proof proving my outrageous claim. But I guess you won't believe it coming from the developers mouth?

      Just because you have problems with the launch titles, doesn't mean everyone does. Kameo's a darned good game. PDZero, while flawed, is still fun, especially in co-op online. Call of Duty 2 is absolutely outstanding. So is PGR3. Those are the games I tried, and there's plenty more from the launch lineup (ie, out on the 22nd), that I'd like to play. So just because YOU don't like the games doesn't mean they were lacklustre.

    5. Re:There are at least 11 by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Why does this have to be such an angry discussion? I'm no fanboy. I actually was PART of the hardware testing of the *MICROSOFT* Xbox 360. I'm no fanboy, calling people "fanboy's" is just an easy way to end a discussion.

      My points are valid. My points are also points that were raised a number of times during the hardware testing phase, so I'm not alone nor are these just bullshit points I pulled out of my ass to look smart on /.

      I didn't compare to the PS2/GC launches because they don't compare. The PS2 and the GC launches were more successful. Sorry for the length but here are the launches you are trying to compae to:

      PS2:
      Armored Core 2
      Dead or Alive 2: Hardcore
      Dynasty Warriors 2
      ESPN International Track & Field
      ESPN X Games Snowboarding
      Eternal Ring
      Evergrace
      FantaVision
      Gun Griffon Blaze
      Kessen
      Madden NFL 2001
      Midnight Club: Street Racing
      Moto GP
      NHL 2001
      Orphen
      Q-Ball Billiards Master
      Ready 2 Rumble Boxing: Round 2
      Real Pool
      Ridge Racer V
      SSX
      Silent Scope
      Silpheed: The Lost Planet
      Smuggler's Run
      Street Fighter EX3
      Surfing H30
      Summoner
      Swing Away Golf
      Tekken Tag Tournament
      TimeSplitters
      Top Gear Daredevil
      Unreal Tournament
      Wild Wild Racing
      X-Squad

      GC:
      Luigi's Mansion
      Wave Race: Blue Storm
      Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader
      Super Monkey Ball
      Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
      Batman: Vengeance
      Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
      Bloody Roar: Primal Fury
      Burnout
      Extreme G3
      Crazy Taxi
      2002 FIFA World Cup
      Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2
      Cel Damage
      NHL Hitz 2002
      Driven
      Disney's Tarzan Freeride
      Donald Duck Quack Attack
      ESPN International Winter Sports
      Universal Studios Theme Park Adventure
      Pikmin
      Super Mario Sunshine
      Star Fox Adventures
      Super Smash Bros. Melee (arguably)

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      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    6. Re:There are at least 11 by RoadDoggFL · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok, and those launches aren't really all that great. Sure, it's a smaller launch but everybody loves to act like the PS2 launched with MGS 2, FFX and GTA 3. The launch games weren't really significant, and the 360 compares more favorably when the Xbox Live arcade is taken into account, a feat many seem incapable of acheiving...

      Also, other launches are more successful because they don't have the MS logo anywhere near them. The stigma of the Xbox being a PC just because it had the same parts was such a huge argument it's scary, and all the while Sony was almost completely PC-centric when designing the PS2.

      --
      "This is considered plagiarism."
    7. Re:There are at least 11 by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

      Not significant?!

      Armored Core 2
      Dead or Alive 2: Hardcore HUGE in Japan
      Dynasty Warriors 2
      ESPN International Track & Field
      ESPN X Games Snowboarding
      Eternal Ring
      Evergrace
      FantaVision Requisite decent puzzle game
      Gun Griffon Blaze
      Kessen Started a massive franchise
      Madden NFL 2001 Requisite football game
      Midnight Club: Street Racing Started a massive franchise
      Moto GP
      NHL 2001 Ditto Madden comment
      Orphen
      Q-Ball Billiards Master
      Ready 2 Rumble Boxing: Round 2
      Real Pool
      Ridge Racer V Ditto Japan comment
      SSX Spawned another franchise
      Silent Scope
      Silpheed: The Lost Planet
      Smuggler's Run Great game, showed some possibilities and sequels
      Street Fighter EX3 nuff said
      Surfing H30
      Summoner
      Swing Away Golf
      Tekken Tag Tournament
      TimeSplitters Again Franchise starter
      Top Gear Daredevil
      Unreal Tournament
      Wild Wild Racing
      X-Squad

      That's a lot of bold, and not to mention the spread across all genre's including easily accessible games like pool, golf, and some others... plus I forgot Dark Cloud.

      Xbox 360:

      Amped 3 (2K Games)
      Call of Duty 2 (Activision)
      Condemned (Sega)
      Dead Or Alive 4 (Tecmo)
      Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (Bethesda)
      Final Fantasy XI (Microsoft)
      Full Auto (Sega)
      Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter (Ubisoft)
      Gun (Activision)
      Kameo: Elements of Power (Microsoft)
      Madden NFL 06 (EA)
      NBA 2K6 (2K Games)
      NHL 2K6 (2K Games)
      The Outfit (THQ)
      Perfect Dark LE (Microsoft)
      Project Gotham Racing 3 (Microsoft)
      Quake 4 (Activision)
      Ridge Racer 6 (Namco)
      Saints Row (THQ)
      Tony Hawk's American Wasteland (Activision)
      Top Spin 2 (2K Games)

      I know I'm not going to change your mind, but just take a second look.

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      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    8. Re:There are at least 11 by RoadDoggFL · · Score: 1

      I'm gonna guess that you missed a "/" because I don't see what's so significant about such hits as Wild Wild Racing.

      --
      "This is considered plagiarism."
    9. Re:There are at least 11 by cornface · · Score: 1

      No games supporting multiple threads? PGR3 uses all 3 cores. So do almost every other launch game.

      I don't think he was trying to flamebait. The single threaded launch games story was all over the gaming news sites.

      One example. According to that link it was an incorrect rumor, but again, it was everywhere.

      Poor launch lineup? Compared to what?

      This is bad logic. Getting punched in the nose is better than getting kicked in the nuts, but neither one could be construed as good. The launch lineup is pretty crappy. The fact that there have been crappier ones is irrelevant.

      Pitiful pricing structure? Then why are they being sold out?

      Because they decided to do a global launch instead of a regional launch.

    10. Re:There are at least 11 by RoLi · · Score: 1
      Ok, and those launches aren't really all that great. Sure, it's a smaller launch but everybody loves to act like the PS2 launched with MGS 2, FFX and GTA 3. The launch games weren't really significant, ...

      Why do you have to resort to subjective claims?

      Let's stick to the facts:

      • That both PS2 and GC had more launch titles is a fact (and which titles are "good" is subjective)
      • Microsoft selling less XBox360s during their launch than XBox1 is a fact. (They sold about twice as many XBox1 in Japan and 50% more in North America)
    11. Re:There are at least 11 by RoadDoggFL · · Score: 1

      Because a "good" launch is a subjective claim. And I consider a good launch to be different than the successful launch. Hell, if MS can keep the hype machine going until they can restock shelves, the the 360's launch might very well be considered one of the most successful ones ever. But how good it is really depends on what you're looking for and how good the games are. Also, everybody loves to forget the Xbox Live Arcade (again). When I finally do get a 360 I'm almost tempted to spend most of my time on Geometry Wars and Smash TV.

      --
      "This is considered plagiarism."
    12. Re:There are at least 11 by sam_paris · · Score: 1

      PS2 Launch Line up: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&cl ient=safari&rls=en&as_qdr=all&q=+%22ps2+launch+lin e+up%22+worst&btnG=Search [google.com] Indeed, most people regard PS2's launch as one of the worst ever with the DC being one of the best ever. The ps2 steam rollered the DC thus meaning that the initial launch means nothing.

      Yeah you list a lot of games but any real gamer will remember the ps2's entire first year as basically a drought in terms of good games. Ps2 basically did well initially because of the backwards compatibility and the strength of the playstation brand. The xbox360's lineup isnt amazing but it is at least slightly tempting for me due to pgr3, condemned and cod2. With the ps2 however, I already had my DC and had no temptation whatsoever so buy a ps2.

    13. Re:There are at least 11 by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

      Please don't put words in my mouth. Kameo is not a top-notch title, everywhere reviewers responses are the same as mine. Did you read the /. review of Kameo from the other day by Zonk? Yep. same sentiments as me. PDZ is similarly weak as a total package. COD2 is available on any system and to me that doesn't make it count for much.

      PGR3 and Geometry Wars are THE two launch titles in my eyes. Both great, although when a $5 game is one of the only shining stars on a super-powerful next-gen console there should be red flags in anyones mind. I do like a few 360 titles and I would like the Marketplace if it offered a better pricing structure, as would most.

      I want to post the quote from the link you gave:

      "Even Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved uses all 3 cores! We've obviously tried to max out the power in the time we've had, but like any development, the more you code for a machine, the more you discover.

      In two years time, for example, we'll be maxing it out even more - we can't say if that'll be another 10%, 30%, 50% or whatever because we just don't know! But we do the best we can in the time constraints (because games do have to be released, you know!), and continue to push forward with each new game... "

      That quote really doesn't prove anything. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but there is a BIG difference between using each core and actually using them as intended and for anything meaningful. If any game was truly using the three cores, MS would have highly trumpeted that fact at launch not downplayed it as they did. It just makes sense. A couple games are threading off AI tasks and one game I know is using it for some sound work but that is about it.

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      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    14. Re:There are at least 11 by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      So you are excited to buy this "most successful" console ever to play a 20 year old NES title and a free mini-game from a generation back? That is exactly my point. Geometry wars is fun, SmashTV is OK, PGR3 is decent... but as a whole it is very minimal and certainly not anything to yell from the mountaintops about.

      To each their own, but it seems like you may have bought into a bit too much of the hype and are not seeing things as objectively as you could. It's cool though, if the 360 rubs you right then enjoy it... I won't try to change your mind, just point out the facts.

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      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    15. Re:There are at least 11 by apoc06 · · Score: 1

      actually, i know where he is coming from. its basically some marketing FUD that J Allard, majornelson and microsoft PR were spouting off trying to impress people with the power of the x360. it was immediately following launch i think. i cant find the link i read it from so...

      [update! found it]
      http://theinquirer.net/?article=27249

      basically he was saying that "none of the launch games even use more than one of the cores of the x360, so imagine the power of our box when developers get up to speed with their multithreaded programming". i read it as FUD and kinda ignored it, based upon a) the inquirers' rep and b) microsofts habit of denying rumors that they started or pushing the fallout over to their competitors. apparently its going to bite them in the longrun if they dont ante up to those comments. apparently they were way off the mark as more and more developers can now speak up and reveal details surrounding the games that are no longer top secret.

    16. Re:There are at least 11 by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      While I semi-agree with you (hey that's a change we normally face off in every thread, must be the Christmas vibe :) ) The statement about the cores/threading I made was NOT based on the internet rumors.

      The fact is that no 360 game is running more than three threads, most are single threaded, and a few are dual-threaded. What most people forget is that EACH of the Xbox 360 cores can run *2* threads. So all of the single and dual-threaded games are using ONE core. The ones claiming to use three threads are still only really using the MAIN CORE and threading off AI to a second core... that's it.

      Again, my knock against the pricing structure was against the *MARKETPLACE* feature of Live! It just makes no logical sense, whether I buy 100 points or 1,000,000 points I pay the EXACT same price... what incentive does that give anyone to buy in quantity? None. That is a bad pricing structure. I'd love to hear how it isn't.

      And just an aside, as far as being sold out, they no longer are. Most malls have numerous stores all with 360's in stock and on shelves. At an EB the other day they had 4 in stock and the kid working said they are only averaging 1-2 a day sold... hardly massive demand given that Christmas is 2 days away.

      Cornface, only the first paragraph was aimed at you in any way and it was just a clarification... there may be hope yet to reconcile our diferences.

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      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
  5. So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here. by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know that I'm going to get flamed my the pro-console/anti-PC gaming group, and I really don't mean it to be. But after reading through that whole article and looking at all of the points that he made, he seems to have inadvertently said that we wants his 360 to be a PC!

    No MSN music. The PC already has it.

    No HDMI support. The PC already has it.

    No web browser -- although is that really a bad thing? I need not mention the browser options on a PC here.

    No WMV-HD or MPEG-4 AVI playback. PC has it.

    Even the point about no pressure-sensitive face buttons is equated on a PC though an analogue joystick.

    Honestly, this just adds to my confusion about why the console vs PC argument can get so heated. I am NOT saying that to be a troll or flame. I know that a lot of console fans are ready to hit me with the "troll" or "flamebait" mods, but I honestly do not understand the whole rage for consoles any more. I've never understood it from the time that PCs could be (easily) connected to TVs.

    That being said, I am fully cognizant of the arguments regarding having minimum PC specifications (CPU speed, RAM, video chipset). They're completely viable arguments and I agree that minimum system specifications are the biggest problems with PC gaming. Console games are meant to work with a single platform and that does indeed help to provide a consistency across all of the games for that particular platform onthe part of the designed. I will not argue that point.

    But now PCs can be connected to TVs easily (almost all modern video cards support DVI or at least S-Video) and do just about everything that the article's author is asking for in his 360. Even the PS3 is supposed to have keyboard and mouse support!

    Why does he not just use a console for gaming and a home theatre PC for everything else, both of which can be connected to the same audio system and same TV often through separate connections? Don't get me wrong. I still have my ol' Nintendo 64 hooked up and I do play it when I have the time and inclination. I wouldn't mind owning a PS2 or even a PS3 when it comes out. I wouldn't rule out buying a second-hand Xbox. I am *not* anti-console. But I just don't understand how someone can want so much from a console then spurn the PC that's probably sitting in an adjoining room.

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  6. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by amrust · · Score: 1

    My wife would kill me, if I tried to set up the PC in the living room.

    That's probably why most (married) people don't opt for it.

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    VOTE!
  7. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by Aranth+Brainfire · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Personally, the only reasons I would own a console are a) if they didn't release some uber-game for the PC, or my computer wouldn't be able to run it for years, and b) consoles just work, in general. You don't get crash bugs because you don't have the right version of video card drivers. You don't lose all the music in the game because you have an unsupported sound card. I've only EVER seen two consoles fail, my roommate's Gamecube for some bug in the specific one he owned (mine never did that), and that was with only one game, and then one time with my old dreamcast, when I fell through the floor in one part of Sonic Adventure.

    However, PCs tend to be much more moddable, so it usually balances out. Stuff doesn't crash and explode often enough for it to be a problem for me, and I've never gotten hardware that just randomly didn't work with something (except when the linux kernel driver for my mobo sound stopped working, but that got fixed eventually...)

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    "Quoting yourself is stupid." -Me
  8. Heating problems? by timdorr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why is the author even trying to venture a guess into the overheating problems of the 360? He makes wild assumptions about what's going on inside and then ventures some random "20% increase in fan speed" as to the fix of it. Unless you have a spec sheet in front of you, don't try and make an "educated" guess about things like this.

    I haven't had one crash with my 360 related to the heating of it. I had a scratch on my PDZ disc that caused it to freeze up, but got a new copy and everything's been clear sailing since. Saying there have been constant problems is a little bit unfounded. If there was something *seriously* wrong with the console, they would have recalled it a long while ago. Maybe MS's 3% figure is a little low, but it's not 99% like the author wants to believe...

    --
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    Owner/Manger
    A Small Orange
  9. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

    I understand that, and I once was worried about that myself. The thought of keyboard and mouse wires all over the floor was not a pleasant thought. Then I started searching for a wireless keyboard with a trackball or touchpad built into it or at least a separate, wireless trackball. So, the PC can sit in the back corner with the wireless keyboard/trackball next to the sofa. If the issue is one of having a PC case, there are a number of PCs out there that are quite small. There are a few models from HP, Gateway, and, of course, Shuttle that are very nicely compact and should fit into just about any entertainment center.

    So, within reach would be the console and PC, both ready to be accessed by changing the audio input on the home theater audio and the video input on the TV. Get wireless controllers for all of the involved units and there's no reason for anyone to not have all of the capabilities that the article's author stated right there, ready to be accessed with no wires and no bulky PC tower sitting somewhere.

    Or if you REALLY want that, grab an older laptop and throw a wireless network adapter on it. I know, I know, that's a lot of money, but you can't expect any console to gain the functionalities of PCs with having a higher price tag. So, any point about spending more money is probably moot. And making a laptop into an HTPC would be better because they're really thin, comparatively speaking, and can do everything that the author says is missing from the 360! (Lots of fully capable laptops on eBay. No one said that it has to be new!)

    That's why I don't really understand the desire for more PC-like functionality in consoles. All of us have PCs. Probably all of us have a spare PC hanging around. So, convert one of the spares to an HTPC. Console + HTPC + TV with multiple inputs + stereo system with multiple inputs = everything that the article's author wants.

    By the way, I'm married, too, and my wife doesn't have a problem with an HTPC as long as it's wireless in network and keyboard. So marriage isn't necessarily a barrier to an HTPC/console combination. :)

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
  10. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by pappy97 · · Score: 1

    So tell me, does your keyboard and mouse rumble? Can they vibrate due to actions in the game? I've noticed this to be a difference in playing COD2 on PC vs. COD2 on 360.

    In fact this has been a problem for years now (considering many XBOX games have the rumble/vibrate feature as well)

  11. This MSN music thing is not a design flaw by pappy97 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How is this MSN music thing the author mentions a DESIGN flaw?

    After all, it could be added to XBOX 360's via an update if MS decided to do it. I figure many things will be added over the lifespan of the 360.

    1. Re:This MSN music thing is not a design flaw by Rancidlunchmeat · · Score: 1

      MOST of these things aren't "design flaws".

      Simply because a certain product doesn't include features that you wish it included, doesn't mean that not including those features constitutes a design flaw.

      A design flaw is poor ergonomics. A design flaw is over heating because there isn't enough airflow in the product (when used according to directions). A design flaw is something that prohibits the proper use of the product as intended by the manufacturer.

      Not something that was excluded and never promised, or unallowable use of the product in a manner that wasn't intended.

    2. Re:This MSN music thing is not a design flaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TFA doesn't mention "DESIGN flaws" at all. Only the post submitted by AC uses that term.

    3. Re:This MSN music thing is not a design flaw by pappy97 · · Score: 1

      I was attacking the post submitted buddy.

      How about you stop being a pu$$y and NOT post anonymous??

    4. Re:This MSN music thing is not a design flaw by apoc06 · · Score: 1

      its not about design flaws per se... its about launch flaws. i assumed that these gripes were things that he felt microsoft should have fixed or had finished by launch. if you go back and re-read the article, with the exception of the pressure sensitive buttons on the controller and maybe the systemwide video calibration... youll notice that none of the items mentioned could not be fixed in a future upgrade of the console.

      i agree with you, and can guarantee you one thing... before the x360 sees the end of its cycle, you will see at least a few of these items addressed. [but then again, this is microsoft... so maybe its just wishful thinking on my part.]

  12. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

    Personally, the only reasons I would own a console are a) if they didn't release some uber-game for the PC, or my computer wouldn't be able to run it for years, and b) consoles just work, in general.

    Agreed on both counts, and the refusal of developers to release some console uber-games on the PC really pisses me off. But in fairness there are a lot of demographics involved as well.

    Halo, for instance. We all know how that game is effectively what sold the original Xbox in the beginning. When I played the PC version, I was unimpressed. It was another FPS as far as I'm concerned. (I want to see GoldenEye upgraded for the PC! Drool, drool!)

    But I for one will not spend hundreds of dollars on a new console just to play a few games that aren't available for the PC. I think that's a bit of arrogance that a lot of console makers and console game developers have. I'll either wait to get the console (and possibly the game) second-hand, which means that they get no money, or I'll do without, which means they get no money. But I'm probably in the minority on that.

    I feel the need to stress again that I'm not anti-console. I just don't understand the fervor for it that obviously millions of people have. I just don't understand how the author can actually complain because the 360 doesn't have those features, yet the PC on which he created his article DOES! Considerng how the prices of some new PCs are the same as the 360, "console fever" further confuses me.

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
  13. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry, but you can't convince me that a vibrating controller feature is a clear reason to spends hundreds of dollars for a console as opposed to a PC. Forget graphics; forget sound; you are pleased to have spent $400+ to play CoD with a rumbling joystick?

    You're exactly the kind of hard-core console user that exacerbates my confusion. Although to be fair, I also don't understand the people who will pay $500+ for a video card for their PC, either.

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
  14. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by Golias · · Score: 1

    My wife would kill me, if I tried to set up the PC in the living room.

    Two words:

    Mac

    mini

    It's the ultimate "wife friendly" HTPC. Set it up properly, program your remote with the Keyspan buttons and the thing looks (and works) exactly like a DVD player when you're watching movies.

    Pull out the bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and you've got an okay game machine for World of Warcraft, the Sims, Halo, etc.

    Connect an EyeTV 500, and you've got PVR functions for the free over-the-air HDTV signals. (Yeah, yeah... box specs say you need a G5 for 1080i. Guess what, the mini downscales smoothly and good LCD's upscale well enough that you'll probably never notice the difference. "1/4 Def" is still a higher res than you get from a DVD.

    The only pain-in-the-ass element is audio. If you want DTS or Dolby Surround you will need to buy a USB-TOSLink converter box, and the only company who makes such a creature for the Mac right now is M-Audio, who makes okay "pro" devices, but flimsy consumer gadgets with clumsy driver software.

    Still, a media room computer plus marital bliss just might be worth the $1140 you'll spend. ($600 mini, $100 RAM, $300 EyeTV box, $60 Keyspan remote, $80 USB audio box.)

    Better still, wait until the mini "2" comes out sometime after next month. If the current iMac is any indicator, it might very well save you the trouble of buying either the remote or the M-Audio box, while handling HD signals even better thanks to a spiffy new dual-core Intel chip.

    --

    Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  15. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by blincoln · · Score: 1

    No MSN music. The PC already has it.

    No web browser -- although is that really a bad thing? I need not mention the browser options on a PC here.

    I'm with you so far, but then...

    No HDMI support. The PC already has it.

    The PC can't play Xbox 360 games. I think the author is concerned that people with HDMI-input-only TVs are going to end up getting the short end of the stick in terms of a digital connection for their Xbox.

    No WMV-HD or MPEG-4 AVI playback. PC has it.

    Not everyone has a PC hooked up to their TV. I did, when I had a small apartment. But now that I have a separate room for my computer gear versus regular entertainment electronics, I don't have a way to watch anything other than plain-Jane DVDs in my living room. Eventually I'll get around to building a quiet media PC, but it's not something I can afford for awhile.

    I won't own a 360 for awhile either, but it would have been nice to finally have a piece of hardware that could play the WMV-HD T2 DVD I got years ago with the Ultimate Edition.

    Now, my nits to pick with the article:

    Mistake #11: No pressure sensitive face buttons

    The travel distance on console controller buttons is so small that I don't see the point. A friend of mine loved this PS2 feature in Baldur's Gate, but I think it would be more hassle than it's worth.

    The system-wide video calibration is a really good point, though. Pretty much every console I've ever owned could have used that. The transaction security is also important, although not to me because I hate online gaming and refuse to buy into the nickel-and-dime-to-death model that MS is pushing on the 360.

    --
    "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
  16. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I've had a force-feedback joystick on my PC for years and years (fighting weapon recoil pushing the stick up is much more fun than a playing with a directionless rumble pack), and you can buy PC controllers with rumble if you want them.

    Still, more software support would be nice, and a USB rumble peripheral - wristband maybe - would be cool. Apart from the endless sex-toy jokes.

  17. Microsoft compatibility by fmwap · · Score: 1

    Microsoft seems to make it a habit to offer no compatibility, sometimes even between their own products. Another example is that godforsaken winmail.dat file I'm always getting when newbies send me attachments in Outlook 97/2000. Gmail and yahoo transparently convert these for me, but good ole MS's hotmail.com doesn't. With hotmail, you need to download your own winmail.dat decoder and extract the files if you don't have access to Outlook.

    Why doesn't MS offer compatibility between their own formats??? The world may never know...

    1. Re:Microsoft compatibility by ianscot · · Score: 1
      Why doesn't MS offer compatibility between their own formats??? The world may never know...

      Sometimes it happens within a given app's features. For several generations, Word's outline and style features were quite incompatible with one another. Apply one, you couldn't use the other without messing everything up. That's just good old lack of communication between groups developing in parallel.

      --
      "Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
    2. Re:Microsoft compatibility by buffer-overflowed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft actually tends to do the opposite with their platforms. Office is sort-of a compatability miscreant(and it's all backwards compatable).

      It causes all sorts of problems, because tons of legacy stuff is supported across OS versions and patches for exactly that. You could still run almost all DOS stuff as late as Windows 98. You can still run 95/98 stuff on 2k/XP. Etc. Etc.

      --
      The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
  18. Analog Face Buttons Don't Work by EvlG · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mistake #11: No pressure sensitive face buttons

    I disagree this is a mistake. Most games don't make use of this feature because for the user, there is little feedback regarding what is going on. How exactly do I push the face button half-way down? 1/4 way? All the way? I can't, really. I can just mash it with my thumb, and hope that I am getting what I want.

    1. Re:Analog Face Buttons Don't Work by Ronnie76er · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I didn't even know the original Xbox had analog facebuttons until I played DOA Volleyball or whatever its called..that game used it for some reason...

    2. Re:Analog Face Buttons Don't Work by mconeone · · Score: 1

      There are only 2 settings, lightly held and pressed hard. I see them as an additional element of skill. They are by no means necessary, just something more. There was little reason to not include them save for cost.

    3. Re:Analog Face Buttons Don't Work by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Dual Shock 2's face buttons have something like 7 or 8 bit resolution, FWIW.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Analog Face Buttons Don't Work by kisrael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which means, in GTA, to make sure I have the "pedal to the metal" I have always mash mash mash. Very hard on the thumbs. I keep some pre-2 "normal" Dual Shocks around just for that reason.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    5. Re:Analog Face Buttons Don't Work by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      Actually it's supposed to detect around 255 varying degrees of pressure. I'm not sure if any games support that many but the Gran Turismo games support seem to as giving slightly less pressure will change the amount of acceleration on the car.

    6. Re:Analog Face Buttons Don't Work by rbarreira · · Score: 1

      That's what he meant with 8 bits of resolution. 2 raised to the power of 8 is 256 ;)

      --

      The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
    7. Re:Analog Face Buttons Don't Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, I guess this means they won't be able to make DOA Beach Volleyball backward compatible, unless they can maybe move the controls to the triggers.

      It's been awhile since I played DOA X, so I can't remember how many analog buttons were used, or if the triggers are needed for gameplay. And I'm not able to check it out right now. Even if I weren't at work, my original Xboxen are offline until I can rewire some things and introduce a component/optical switcher.

      By the way, last week I posted an article entitled 10 reasons the Xbox 360 doesn't quite rock - yet. It takes a look at some finetuning to the software that would make the 360 experience exponentially better - a bit different than evaluating the hardware and overarching design decisions, like whether to include MSN Music. Take a look, and let me know what you think.

      That said, I do like some of the ideas from this new article and, again, I didn't realize the buttons weren't analog. That's a shame. I'd also like to see improvements to DVD playback. I don't know that I'd buy MSN Music on my 360, but that does seem like a missed marketing opportunity.

      -=Gamewatcher

    8. Re:Analog Face Buttons Don't Work by apoc06 · · Score: 1

      well, just because developers havent used them properly yet, doesnt mean that a good feature should be totally eradicated in future revisions.

      some games make for good use of the pressure, but those are few and far inbetween. and the really good ones do it transparently, so you dont even realize.

      i agree with the author. keep pressure sensitivity. its just waiting for its first real killer app. driving games come to mind, where the presure sensitivity translates well into use in racing games. im sure there are other opportunities to take advantage... we just have to wait and see.

      look at how well directional sensitivity [analog sticks/ pads] have been adopted as the #1 form of character movement.

    9. Re:Analog Face Buttons Don't Work by EvlG · · Score: 1

      It has been used in racing games, and IMO it didn't work.

      Read my post. The user doesn't have enough control over mashing the face button to be able to execute anything more than 3 rough options

      Not on (thumb off button)
      Somewhat on (thumb resting idle on button, or thumb slightly pressing button)
      Mostly on (thumb pressing button in)

      I say mostly on because sometimes buttons stick or you aren't pressing squarely down, and so the button registers something like 90%.

      Some controllers had 8 bit resolution - can you really say any user can distinguish between the 256 levels of pressure? What use is it?

  19. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by Gulthek · · Score: 1

    Sound is so much better on a console than my desktop, but admittedly only because my console is plugged into my home theater.

    For some odd reason, it's always feels weird to play a PC game with surround sound, but seems perfectly natural for a console.

  20. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the author of the article is a bit off on wanting it to be like a PC but for a different reason.

    YOU may like a gaming PC just fine. But a PC is a lot more complex. It is more difficult to use, more difficult to keep going, requires knowledge of what is in it, and more prone to problems. Plus it's easy to screw it up.

    For someone who's comfortable with PCs already, those are no problem. You know your way around a PC. Installing and using a game is cake. Not everyone is so enthusiastic about using a PC though. That's where game consoles come in. They are an appliance, not a computer. You stick in a game, and turn it on. And it works. You know the game will work with your hardware because it is what it was developed for. There is no complexity. You just stick a game in and turn it on. Pretty difficult to screw up.

    On the other hand, the more like a PC a console becomes, the more complexity is introduced. Suddenly you lose that simplicity of it being a gaming appliance, and gain the complexity of it being a PC. Admittedly it's still simpler than a true PC, but not a whole lot.

    Then there's people like me. I'm perfectly computer literate and perfectly capable of setting up a HTPC. I play some games on my PC, and have what was considered a leading edge gaming system a couple years ago. But unless there is a good reason to get the PC version of a game, my preference is to get the console version. It's just easier to deal with. It's the same reason I have a TiVo instead of setting up a computer with similar functionality.

    Those millions of people that buy consoles are people that don't want to deal with the hastle of a computer for gaming, for whatever reason.

  21. Unrealistic Expectations by Sux2BU · · Score: 2, Informative

    Some of the author's expectations would cost too much to add into the system at this time. Perhaps if MS waited longer the price would drop on adding them, but not right now. Cases in point:

    • Mistake #3: No HDMI support
    • Mistake #4: 20GB is too small

    Other items would have added to the development time of the product. If you work in software development you should be familiar with the concept of having to cut features in order to release in time. I think these items are of this category:

    • Mistake #2: No MSN Music
    • Mistake #6: No Web Browser
    • Mistake #7: No WMV-HD DVD Playback
    • Mistake #8: No MPEG-4 AVI playback (i.e. XviD, etc)
    • Mistake #9: No System-Wide Video Calibration

    Then there's just design decisions that the author disliked:

    • Mistake #5: Microtransaction Security
    • Mistake #11: No pressure sensitive face buttons

    Then the one that are probably licensing related (if not it probably belongs with "No WMV-HD DVD Playback" above):

    • Mistake #10: Poor DVD Playback Quality

    That leaves us with a real flaw:

    • Mistake #1: Overheating CPU or GPU
    1. Re:Unrealistic Expectations by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Harddrives are VERY cheap to go from 20GB to 40 or 60, you pay almost the entire price only for the drive assembly, not the actual platters. MS doesn't want a larger HD because there's no point for a console to have more than 20GB and because users would only use that space to dump game discs on modded systems.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  22. Modded Insightful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Calling somebody else's opinion 'pathetic' because 'no one' gives a fuck??

    Seems more like a troll to me.

  23. Unfortunately, its not their fault by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 3, Informative

    With regards to MSN music, this isn't a design flaw of MS, its a design flaw of the RIAA.

    ANY new music distribution system, even that mirroring avialable Internet services, must be approved by the RIAA. Even though the Xbox Live service uses the Internet as a backbone, the RIAA considers it a different medium for music distribution, and so must agonize over whether the Xbox360 has appropriate DRM protection and cannot be used as a platform to pirate music. The bottom line is, there is probably some pending approval for the idea of selling/subscribing to music on the Xbox360 stuck on some RIAA desk.

    Like the PSP and its obvious lack of online music integration, to believe that it is simple to establish a new market for online music sales suggests a total lack of understanding of the process of getting approval by the RIAA. Is MS had to wait for RIAA approval before integrating online music sales in the Xbox360, then we may have seen Windows Vista 2 long before the Xbox360.

    Apple fought tooth and nail to get their iTMS established, and in other markets around the world, the process for getting approval by the appropriate local music cartel is slow, painful, and full of ignorance it isn't even funny. Even with the well established and successful iTMS in the US, it took Canada 2 years to get into the game, and some places like Australia and Japan are still pending or have just been approved. Every other legit online music service has had to jump through hoops to prove that their service will not be used as a sorce of piracy.

    I doubt MS ignored the potential for the Xbox360 to be used as a retail marketplace for music and video, they did bank on the Live to have improved services for game sales. If it was entirely up to MS, they would have integrated MSN Music directly in the XBox360 at launch. Just as I would assume that Sony would have integrated a Sony based music store for their PSP product.

    This is yet another example of how far behind the times the music industry is, how anal and overprotective they are of their copyrights and the fact they are stagnating the music industry by stonewalling any new innovative services or markets for online music sales.

    --
    I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
    1. Re:Unfortunately, its not their fault by SScorpio · · Score: 1
      Like the PSP and its obvious lack of online music integration
      I don't own a PSP but last one of the key items in the v2.0 firmware was that it was supported under SonicStage which is Sony's verion of iTunes. It's not a great program but it's usable with my Network Walkman. And before you complain it's no different than the iPod only supporting DRM'd music from iTunes.
  24. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by Corbu+Mulak · · Score: 1

    If you have Half-Life 2 for the PC, some modders are making both GoldenEye and PerfectDark into mods. I'm not sure if they will have the single player content, but the multiplayer is going to be there. It is supposed to be as close as they can get to the original, with a few extra stuff thrown in (like jumping).

    I don't think it is coming out for a while, though.

  25. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by DingerX · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Surprise!

    You mean Microsoft didn't include the features they easily could have, but which someone might argue would cut into their Windows XP Media Center Edition/Xbox 360 Media Center upgrade market?

    I'm shocked and stunned.

  26. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Informative

    I agree with you on pressure sensitive face buttons, there's just no point. I've played one game so far that even used them, Star Ocean 3, and that used them in a way that was absolutely annoying (you had to press the button in four different ways to solve some puzzles, each wrong press would mean a battle). The only acceptable analog buttons are shoulder buttons with at least half a centimetre of travel distance (e.g. GC L/R buttons) and even those are used almost never.

    Though I think some XBox games used analog face buttons (DOA Volleyball, for example) and that would cause trouble with the backwards compatibility.

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  27. Reality by the+computer+guy+nex · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Mistake #1: Overheating CPU or GPU
    -Actually it is the separated power brick.

    Mistake #2: No MSN Music
    -This can be incorporated at any time through the marketplace. When the legal issues are sorted I expect it.

    Mistake #3: No HDMI support
    -Not needed. Microsoft has tested HDMI with the 360 and found there was no improvement in quality.

    Mistake #4: 20GB is too small
    -What? The hard drive was designed for XBOX Live Arcade games and MP3's (to play during games). Anything larger should be streamed from a media center.

    Mistake #5: Microtransaction Security
    -Have to do more research here.

    Mistake #6: No Web Browser
    -This introduces more problems than it's worth.

    Mistake #7: No WMV-HD DVD Playback
    -About .5% of the 360 target market cares. Not worth the extra development $$.

    Mistake #8: No MPEG-4 AVI playback (i.e. XviD, etc)
    -See #7

    Mistake #9: No System-Wide Video Calibration
    -This is just false. There is a universal option to change from Full/Wide screen and -420p/720p/1080i.

    Mistake #10: Poor DVD Playback Quality
    -Probably representative of your TV. I see the same quality on mine as any other DVD player that doesn't upconvert.

    Mistake #11: No pressure sensitive face buttons
    -yawn

    1. Re:Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Mistake #3: No HDMI support
      -Not needed. Microsoft has tested HDMI with the 360 and found there was no improvement in quality.


      Quality? The point isn't quality, the point is that that MS passed on the "latest and greatest" connector design. Sure, maybe YOU like wrastling with three component cables and however many audio cables you need. Or... you could have just plugged in an HDMI cable and been done with it.

      Mistake #4: 20GB is too small
      -What? The hard drive was designed for XBOX Live Arcade games and MP3's (to play during games). Anything larger should be streamed from a media center.


      The FFXI beta takes 5GB of that drive. How long before you're swapping out that drive like most players swap memory cards?

      Mistake #9: No System-Wide Video Calibration
      -This is just false. There is a universal option to change from Full/Wide screen and -420p/720p/1080i.


      Glad thats all you ever have to change on your TV.

      I can't count the number of games on other consoles that I could only wish had overscan adjustment because some important UI feature was off the top of my TV. A global brightness/contrast control might be a nice touch too, unless you've got one of those fancy TVs that can save profiles for movie, tv, and game watching.

      I see the same quality on mine as any other DVD player that doesn't upconvert.

      And that's somehow "Probably representative of your TV"? Well, being a (relatively) lousy dvd player doesn't matter so much so it's no big deal. I doubt we'll see any "Compatible with xbox 360!" stickers on DVDs, anyway. It would have mattered more if it came down to HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray, if HD-DVD looked like shit on the 360, it wouldn't have mattered how long a lead time the format had if the PS3 could do Blu-Ray better.

    2. Re:Reality by News+for+nerds · · Score: 1

      >Mistake #3: No HDMI support
      >-Not needed. Microsoft has tested HDMI with the 360 and found there
      >was no improvement in quality.

      Is this a joke? Never met a person who denies the goodness of digital output for this 10 years.

    3. Re:Reality by MukiMuki · · Score: 1

      Mistake #10: Poor DVD Playback Quality -Probably representative of your TV. I see the same quality on mine as any other DVD player that doesn't upconvert.

      Christ. Please RTFA next time, and do at least the most marginal of Googling.

      Avivo does a HELL of a lot more than merely try to blend interlacing lines, which is the best your TV is gonna do by itself, and is something it'll only do with a composite input signal.

      With that in mind, please read this list of fine points :

      http://www.hqv.com/technology/index1/cadence_detec tion.cfm?CFID=&CFTOKEN=afeed41948d8f95e-562B8B38-7 E90-E2A3-B0DF15A581AE3636

      There's a LOT a GPU can do to improve a DVD signal, and there's quite a few different times of video signals that have to be fixed in a variety of different ways.

      $1000 DVD players don't have that price tag for thrills.

      (On a side note...)
      And CHRIST, SLASHDOT! MAKE PLAIN OLD TEXT THE GODDAMN DEFAULT! ASSHOLES!!!

  28. Not a bad list, but... by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

    ... most of those things can be addressed by software updates.

    In fact, I am willing to bet that, right around the time of the PS3 launch, several of those "missing" features will be announced - specifically, MSN music and web browsing.

    As for the other stuff - small hard-drive, for example - I can see MSFT selling upgrades for people who've run out of space.

    The 360 is designed to allow plenty of room for upsales. Would I spend $1000 on a console in one shot? Hell no. Would I spend $1000 on a console if it were spread out in dribs and drabs over 5 years? Maybe not, but it's a lot more likely than the up-front expenditure.

    --
    Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  29. WRT #9 by misfit13b · · Score: 1
    I believe the author is speaking of things like color bars and Pluge patterns.

    You know, things that anyone with an HDTV should already have and have used, and come with different DVD movies (Fight Club and The Incredibles are two off of the top of my head).

    Yeah, it might have been nice to have thrown in there, but a design mistake? No.

    1. Re:WRT #9 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's more like the brightness and overscan settings (where the game is drawing things a bit off the screen). I think these are more game-specific though. I've only had to mess around with a single game once.

    2. Re:WRT #9 by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it might have been nice to have thrown in there, but a design mistake? No.

      So, you think that the fact that the programmers for King Kong tell people to buy the PS2 version instead of the Xbox360 doesn't indicate any kind of flaw in the latter console?

      Indeed, this error is a classic case of a software design flaw. There is a feature (gamma adjustment) which is needed by almost every program on the platform. But instead of the platform's OS providing the feature, it's up to each individual game to implement its own brightness adjustment. That is guaranteed to waste development time, disk space, end-user time, and lead to many sub-optimal implementations.

      It is a failure to centralize commonly-needed features, and that is bad.

    3. Re:WRT #9 by misfit13b · · Score: 1

      It's a problem with one game on one system. If the problem were across all software on the platform, then that would be a design flaw with the 360. As it is, the developers of King Kong are the only ones to blame, as they are the only ones who dropped the ball.

    4. Re:WRT #9 by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      As it is, the developers of King Kong are the only ones to blame, as they are the only ones who dropped the ball.

      No. They're the only one you know of so far, but there will probably be more.

      But even if 100% of future games looked to this example and carefully put in their own gamma-adjustment feature, this would still count as a design flaw.

      Time is wasted by hundreds of developers reinventing the wheel, and by millions of players who now have to individually tweak each separate game, instead of recalibrating only when a new TV is attached.

      Microsoft gave the xbox360 a "dashboard" including some centralized config controls. It should've had brightness settings, just like every high-end video card does- after all, Microsoft touts the Xbox360 as possessing amazing graphics, right? Consistent colors is a prerequisit for that.

  30. Purpose design decisions to make Xbox != PC by llevity · · Score: 1
    This was a big point Microsoft harped on with the original Xbox, and it's clear they retain the same vision here. Despite the fact that the system has a lot in common with a PC, Microsoft has clearly wanted to differentiate the console from a (dumbed down) PC. That's why they released no keyboard, or mice, or web browsers, or email clients.

    Despite the lack of some features, I actually agree with this strategy. It's a console whose main purpsoe is playing games. They also expanded it to do some other things you'd like to do with a system hooked up to your TV and surround sound receiver -- play movies, music, display pictures.

    If they released a keyboard, an internet browser, a word processor, you'd end up with a PC that can also play Xbox games. Besides cutting into other markets that they probably don't want to overlap, it also adds clutter to the interface, and adds new potential points of failure and hassle.

    I think they've made a good compromise between functionality and features, while retaining ease of use and simplicity.

    1. Re:Purpose design decisions to make Xbox != PC by damsa · · Score: 1

      Didn't the Dreamcast come with an Internet Browser, keyboard accessories and the ability to plug a VGA monitor. Worked well for Sega, wonder why MS doesnt follow suit.

    2. Re:Purpose design decisions to make Xbox != PC by llevity · · Score: 1
      Worked well for Sega

      ... it did?

  31. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by SScorpio · · Score: 1

    The Xbox 360 is being marketed as more than a game console, it's being shown as a digital media hub. No MSN music. The PC already has it. Yes but wouldn't you like to be able to simply download songs with a subscription service you already have and use the songs ingame. Loading your MP3 player with music from the 360 would be nice considering since you can hook up your MP3 player and play songs off it already. No HDMI support. The PC already has it. Yes and without it you won't be able to play protected HD video that you would be able to purchase from the Live Marketplace. No web browser -- although is that really a bad thing? I need not mention the browser options on a PC here. Again a central media hub should provide a way to easily check your email, IM, and hit some websites. You can get your email and IM with the MCE Extender functionality, but having this functionality without needing a MCE would be very nice. No WMV-HD or MPEG-4 AVI playback. PC has it. The Xbox Media Center was a major selling point for modchips on the original Xbox. By enabling the ability to play these types of files by default you'd add a nice feature that would get more people to upgrade, and give people less of a reason to mod. Also for WMV-HD. The 360 is supposed to be a huge HD content driven console, and it can't play Microsoft's HD format videos? Even the point about no pressure-sensitive face buttons is equated on a PC though an analogue joystick. Not even close to the same thing. The original Xbox and PS2 both have pressure-senstive face buttons. Not many games made good use of them, but the ones that did really enhanced the experience. Why does he not just use a console for gaming and a home theatre PC for everything else, both of which can be connected to the same audio system and same TV often through separate connections? Home theatre PCs are pretty nice however they are expensive and a majority of them don't fit with the rest of the AV components well. We'll have to see what Sony does with the PS3. I also won't just put off his comments as typical complaining. The 360 and PS3 are supposed to be trojan horses into your living room slowly becoming the center of your entertain experience. His article is mainly describing all of the additional changes Microsoft could have made, but feel flat doing.

  32. MediaCenter is the partial solution by sevinkey · · Score: 1

    XBox360 has an extender built into it. I haven't gotten my hands on the 360, but I have a hardware media center extender, and some of the points made in this article are fixed by simply having a MediaCenter somewhere in the house (I recently read that 50% of new home PCs sold now run Media Center Edition)

    #2 - MSN Music is on MCE.
    #6 - Seems like it would be easy to write an MCE HTML app to make browsing reasonable on an xbox. I've been planning on getting around to writing this myself, just haven't wanted it THAT bad.
    #7 - WMV-HDs are DVDs with a WMV file on them. I'm curious to find out Media Center can play that video directly off the DVD like it was in your My Videos folder.
    #8 - Playing around with VLC to convert these files to mpeg or WMV would make this work

  33. I disagree by Mitaphane · · Score: 1

    Pressure sensitive buttons can be useful. It's just that most games out there don't even try to do anything with them. Examples good use: Any decent racing game(that should be a no brainer) and Metal Gear Solid 2/3. In the game, when you have a weapon equiped, you press down the fire button to aim the weapon. Releasing the button makes you fire the weapon. If you take aim and decide not to fire, you can slowly let off the button and put down weapon without firing.

    1. Re:I disagree by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you but I can't hold a button at 1/2mm down or something like that. Slowly releasing means different things to different people as well, I've never really figured out what Star Ocean's definition of "slowly" was. Plus it wasn't easy to repeat even if I got it right once.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  34. Whoa ... Hold on a second ... by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

    Home theatre PCs are pretty nice however they are expensive

    Not trying to take your whole statement out of context, but this one struck me because it's absolutely not true. You can make a decent HTPC out of nothing more than

    * an 800 MHz Athlon
    * An ATI All-In-Wonder card (even the old AIW 7200 had everything that was necessary including remote)
    * Sound Blaster Live 5.1
    * whatever hard disk space you want

    All of these parts can be purchased on the cheap on eBay, if you don't already have them. (And we can't really be considered to be geeks unless we have a few spare systems laying around, right?) Playing DVDs is NOT CPU intensive for the most part. I can watch DVDs on my 450 MHz Pentium II laptop in full screen without issue.

    If you get into high-quality DIVX or WMV, yes, you'll need something beefier, but even brand new systems that are more than up to the task in memory and CPU power can be purchased for less than $400. Even if you need to buy another video card, HTPC cards - even high-def - are not outrageously expensive if you know where to look, and no one said that you need the best of the best. As I mentioned before, my AIT AIW7200 does time-shifting, has a remote, can take complete control of what I watch on the TV, and has software like that gives me the ability to record a future show just be double-clicking on it.

    As for hard drives, I just bought a 200 GB drive on NewEgg for less than $100. That's a sh*tload of hours of Divx movies, even in high quality.

    Sorry, but if you think that HTPCs are expensive, then it's glaringly evident that you've never tried to buy or build one, or else you're trying to buy an Alienware version. :)

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
    1. Re:Whoa ... Hold on a second ... by SScorpio · · Score: 1
      As a matter of a fact I just converted my main pc into a semi-HTPC. I put Windows MCE 2005 on it and installed a Hauppauge 150MCE. I then have my Xbox connect to it both via the Xbox Media Center Extender, and with Xbox Media Center.

      Xbox Media Center is nice because it allows you to play almost any format you'll ever fun into, and the Extender software allows me to do the how Tivo pause live TV, schedule/watch recorded TV. and the other things possible with MCE. The nice thing about running these features on the Xbox is that my PC is out of the way at my computer desk, while an Xbox which looks closer to other home theatre equipment.

      Giving the 360 the ability to natively play DivX AVIs and the like would have been a great addition as me switching to a 360 at the moment would result in a loss of functionality. Nice looking cases that will work well as a Home Theatre PC case are generally restricted to the MicroATX varity and are not the cheapest cases in the world. Sure you could goto Walmart and buy a $300 eMachine and throw a TV card in it and call it a HTPC but it would look like ass next to your TV considering computer cases generally don't fit nicely in component cabinets.

      A core 360 costing $300 and providing the needed features to connect to a TV while the PC is else where would be nice. Many of the comsumer PCs are also coming with Windows MCE 2005 (at least pretty much everything PC from HP), and Vista is rumored to included MCE functionality by default. One glaring issue with the parts you listed in the AIW card. They are not known in the HTPC community to be the best cards and I don't believe the 9600s even support hardware encoding. This causes encoding of video to be pushed onto the CPU. You can pickup a Hauppauge 150MCE for ~$67 at Newegg which does include hardware encoding. The only thing I notice when video is being recorded is that my hard drive is being written to more often that normal.

      Here's a spec'd out decent MCE system.

      • Windows MCE 2005 - $125 You buy your software right?
      • Athlon64 3000+ /w Motherboard (Combo) - $200
      • 1GB PC3200 DDR - $70
      • NEC DVD+/-RW - $40
      • Generic Case - $37-$100
      • WD 400GB - $200
      • Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-150 MCE - $68
      • Video Card /w TV-Out - $35-$500 depending on the model and if you want to play games with it.
      • (Optional) Sound Blaster Audgity ZS - $100 (for additional audio output options)
      All of this added up taking the cheapest parts comes out to $775 and this is without a keyboard, mouse, monitor/lcd, speakers. So no they aren't that cheap compared to a $300-400 Xbox if it just included the additonal playback format support.

      (wow.. I remembered to hit preview to check formatting this time...)

    2. Re:Whoa ... Hold on a second ... by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

      Your listing is accurate, but you purposefully strayed from the point that I was making by intentionally selecting hardware that is way overkill for a basic HTPC. You're attempting to sell a BMW when a Ford Focus will serve the majority of the community nicely. (No comment on the vehicles listed, people. I'm just using them for comparison's sake.) You're looking at really modern hardware for a totally beefed-up system, which is totally not necessary for a lot of people. NO ONE -- repeat -- NO ONE needs the hardware that you mentioned just to make an HTPC.

      For true video and audiophiles, yes, what you listed is still overkill but closer to the requirements. For the basic functions that were listed in the article that this whole thread is about, there is no need whatsoever for the powehouse that you listed.

      --
      The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
    3. Re:Whoa ... Hold on a second ... by SScorpio · · Score: 1
      No this is a midrange HTPC. A true video/audio phile would be selecting a video card that supports HDTV output. And at least 1 HDTV tuner would be need. Finally a higher end Sound Blaster with an external connector box to support the various audio connectors and to help put any analog processing outside the computer case to eliminate any signal distortion.

      Yes you might be able to go lower on a part here or there on my parts list but I still stand by it. The Linux Journal even recently ran an article where they spec'd out a MythTV box which came out to $700. That's $700 which is $75 cheaper than my parts and doesn't include the $125 for a legal license of Windows MCE 2005.

      I'd like to know where exactly the parts should be cut down. My listing include: ~3Ghz (by Intel's Measurement anyways) CPU & Motherboard, DVD Burner, 1GB RAM, 400GB HD, and analog TV Tuner. I didn't include the sound blaster I listed as optional. If you do run the PC as a dedicated HTPC doing nothing but recording TV you can possibly drop down to 512MB of RAM which saves about $25 and maybe go for less hard drive space which you'll probably regret later when you need more space to save recorded content. You might think the CPU is over kill but you'll enjoy the extra power then you are transcoding content on the fly to put on your PDA, or encoding video to put on DVD. The one thing I didn't include in my list that I probably should have is $30-$40 for a MCE remote that will come with an IR blaster to change changes on Cable and Satalite boxes.

      Yes you could buy a lot cheaper parts and knock the price down lower if you only want to record TV, but then you should just bit on the $300 for a Tivo with Lifetime subscription and then the extra $100 for the Media Center upgrade which will let the Tivo stream Music and Pictures. So it'll be $400 for a box that you unpack, plug in, and just use without worrying about it. Of course if you want a noisey, ugly, beige case as part of your entertainment center, that's your choice.

    4. Re:Whoa ... Hold on a second ... by apoc06 · · Score: 1

      dont forget that your average NON-HARDCORE gamer, many females, and older people dont want to or even simply have the technical knowledge necessary to put together a decent HTPC. thats why there is a market for those windows media, and HTPC packages. some people just want everything working out of the box, and a number they can call or ship the box back if it doesnt work right.

      to date, i have not seen a HTPC package that was cheap. the reason so many people went the xbox modding route is so they can have a really, really cheap media box. if youre putting one together yourself... thats a different story, but honestly... how many people do? how many people put together their own pcs? maybe the slashdot crowd, but if we were representative of the american norm, dell would be effectively out of business.

  35. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by RoLi · · Score: 1
    You don't get crash bugs because you don't have the right version of video card drivers.

    LOL, instead you get crash bugs because you have not religiously followed the manual where to put your power brick.

  36. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by Saige · · Score: 1

    Pressure sensitive buttons are a waste. Too little value and too much of a pain to deal with.

    Pressure sensitive TRIGGERS, however, are great. The Xbox, 360, and GC all had great implementations. The PS2, not so much, because the shoulder buttons there still don't have enough travel space or proper feedback. I get the impression that the PS3 is still going to fail in this regard.

    --
    "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
  37. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by Saige · · Score: 1

    No MSN music. The PC already has it. Yes but wouldn't you like to be able to simply download songs with a subscription service you already have and use the songs ingame.

    That's why you download them on the PC and use Windows Media Center/Windows Media Connect to stream from the PC to the 360. It's like having MSN music on the Xbox 360 - only better.

    --
    "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
  38. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by SScorpio · · Score: 1

    Music subscription songs are DRM protected, and I can't say for sure but I don't believe they are supported on the 360. I remember reading about them not being transferable off of MP3 Players, but I'm not sure about streaming them. Either way you can't use them as ingame soundtrack songs.

  39. The reason by News+for+nerds · · Score: 1

    If Microsoft include a web browser in the game console, it can harm their core business that is selling Windows OS for PC. What's the main usage of PC in home today, web browsing, email, and what?

    On the other hand, PSP already has a web browser embedded in its firmware and PS3 will too.

    1. Re:The reason by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      it can harm their core business that is selling Windows OS for PC. What's the main usage of PC in home today, web browsing, email, and what?

      Technically, they are selling some reduced version of Windows included with the XBox360 price.

      Indeed, Microsoft would like to get Windows off the PC, and onto custom hardware, where the market is less competitive. There is Linux (and maybe soon Mac) providing PC-based web browsing, which gives them lower-cost competition. Bill Gates would be most happy if the public switched to locked-down XBoxes in preference to PCs, because it's less likely that alternative OSes will ever encroach on their marketplace there.

      Some people will say that "Linux will never be ready for the desktop, because it can't run the huge library of Windows software". But when talking specifically about users who ONLY need web and email, Linux is more than enough.

  40. Re:So, what he wants is a PC? Someone help me here by rtechie · · Score: 1

    Many of the mistakes made were basic design flaws, like the following:

    Mistake #1: Overheating CPU or GPU

    I've rarely bought PC systems that had serious overheating problems. The only system I can think of off the top of my head was a white box dual Opteron server (back when they were initially intoduced) that would overheat if crammed in the closet. Like the 360, this system was built with inadaquate cooling (the problem was more egregious on the server because it was in a HUGE case to accomodate a RAID array).

    This problem is actually easily dealt with. As discussed in the article all that is really necessary is to increase the power of the fans substantially, that would increase the noise but cest la vie.

    Mistake #2: No MSN Music

    This is basically a crock. You can buy music on your PC and then play it on your 360, PC, or a portable player. And you can do it with iTunes, Rhapsody, etc. It strikes me that this is FAR more useful than having your music stuck on the 360. It's clear that MS is targeting people that either own PCs or have easy access to them. (which describes most people on /.)

    Mistake #3: No HDMI support

    While claim and claim is made about Microsoft offering HDMI or DVI support in the future "with a special cable," I find these rumors very hard to believe. If HDMI support was as trivial as making a cable, don't you think Monster Cable or any of the 3rd party manufacturers would have already made a cable

    Pacific Cable has one http://www.pacificcable.com/Xbox-360-VGA-DVI-Conve rter.html. It's "only" $650 though. I'm assuming it contains an Analogue to Digital Converter at that price, which means that the "official" kit will probably have to do something similar. The PS3 will almost certainly have a HDMI port (or DVI port, they're very similar). Still, this is completely dropping to ball over at MS. More rush to market madness.

    Mistake #4: 20GB is too small

    The author is just high on this one. 20GB is plenty if you aren't hosting music, video, etc. on the 360 which is exactly what was intended. The author of the article does not apparently grasp the concept of Windows Media Extender. The idea is that you have a central "server" Media Centre PC and then you use Extender boxes as remote front-ends for the PC on your Home Theatre, etc. The 360 just has the same functionality as those $100 UPnP boxes you can get at Frys, like this thing http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=318&sec=1 from D-Link. These things have NO hard drives.

    Mistake #4: 20GB is too small

    The big downside of the HD is that it's 2.5", so it's slow (probably faster than the XBOX HD though). The author seems to have forgotten the entire purpose of the HD was disk caching to make games load faster, making the internal HD USB2 is a terrible idea in this context.

    Mistake #5: Microtransaction Security

    Beyond nit-picking. In the U.S., you don't have any liablity if the 360 is stolen, etc. In Europe you DO, but you're probably already using a debit card for this reason. Hell, if you're in the US you're probably using a debit card too because of the lovely 30% interest rates we're seeing (rant, rant).

    Mistake #6: No Web Browser

    Yeah, this sucks ass. If you want to defend MS on this one, explain how the 360 doesn't have a web browser but the DREAMCAST did? It seems like this would be trivially easy to add (MS could even update through Live if they felt it necessary) and users would like it. The fact that MS even has a specialized product for this niche (MSNTV, formerly WebTV), and consequently had ready-made software, is even more mystifying.

    Mistake #9: No System-Wide Video Calibration

    This is a real complaint, but the author is making it in an obtuse way. The problem is that the 360 is "optomized" for