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NSA Data Mining Much Larger Than Reported
silassewell writes to tell us The New York Times is reporting that the "volume of information harvested from telecommunication data and voice networks, without court-approved warrants, is much larger than the White House has acknowledged." The NSA gained the cooperation of many American telecommunication companies after 9/11 to access streams of communication, both domestic and international, as a part of a presidentially approved program to hunt for evidence of terrorist activity.
Yeah, if data about bin Laden's calling habits leaks out someone might find out how many times Bush has been consulting him on how to screw and scare the public.
America is arguably free and most definitely not home of the brave on average. The country which produced a citizen army that defeated the British with French help is gone, and you can blame the civil war in part for ending our era of relying on a citizen army instead of a professional one.
The average American doesn't have any ability to use a gun, nor do they have the determination to act as a militiaman in defense of their country. This is why we are losing freedom so much. The government has to do this because most people while scream bloody murder if they don't in the face of a terrorist attack. Since most Americans have no connection to their freedoms, especially since they don't have the principle or courage to fight for them, we are essentially screwed.
But on the terrorist angle, let's be serious about something. This is a Muslim on everyone else problem and welcoming more Muslims from abroad into our country is just asking for trouble. Chinese Buddhists aren't attacking us, Hindus are by and large quite content to live in total peace with their neighbors, same thing for Jews, Christians, Shintos, Sikhs. It's the Muslim immigrants from the Middle East and Pakistan that by and large want to blow up our women and children in gory displays of affection for Allah.
So instead of screwing our civil liberties, and those of our law-abiding immigrants from the rest of the world besides the heavily Muslim areas, why not simply deport all of the Middle Eastern and Pakistan Muslims from our country? Only a pathologically dishonest person can look at the history of Islam and call it a religion of peace. No, we shouldn't restrict our Muslim citizens, most of whom are very Americanized to the point that they are probably more closely connected to our culture than their religion's roots. However, let's be realistic. Deporting every single Saudi national from our country and ending our visa program with Saudi Arabia would do more to protect our country than the USA PATRIOT Act and these executive orders combined.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Sometimes we have to make a choice when you are attacked by a group of terrorists.
Unlike terrorists groups that want money or people released these people want to destroy our way of life.
We have two options sit and wait for another attack to happen or we can be proactive.
I have no problem with a government computer scanning data from different sources, and flagging communications that could be terrorist planning another attack. Probably 99% data collected is never seen by a human being, just processed by the computer.
This leak of how the Government is tracking Terrorist is a bigger problem then the president calling for NSA to collect this data. Look at what happened when the Clinton administration was tracking Bin Laden, it leaked they could track him by his cell phone usage. He stopped using a cell phone and we lost a good way to track him and maybe could have stopped 9/11. Now they know we are looking at all communications, and will modify how they send information to different cells.
There is always a chance of this information being used for political reasons, similar to what happened in the Clinton administration. If Bush used it against political opponents then that would be a problem, and he would be held accountable
Wise men speak because they have something to say, Fools because they have to say something!!!!
Okay, I'm going to go way out on a limb here and expose myself to total mod annihilation. (but before you do, at least read down to my example of why I think it's a free country.)
I think a lot of the reaction here is glib and over the top. Does anyone remember what happened Sept 11, 2001?
Yeah, there has been a lot of "unauthorized" spying, but it looks to be pretty specific (e.g., Mosques... where large Muslim populations ostensibly would have privacy to worship). The United States was attacked and continues to be targeted for major future terror attacks. And, like it or not, the community most likely to cultivate, plan, and escalate this activity is Muslim. And, a country so viciously attacked would be naive, maybe even stupid to allow unfettered large gatherings where this planning could go on with no observation.
I cringe to think spying may go on, and may be necessary, but it isn't the same world as five years ago.
As for those complaining about the abridgement of their rights and rampant government interference I would ask you, have you or anyone you know observed or experienced serious interference in your life (lives)? I haven't, and I don't know anyone who has. I do know some people get caught in the quagmire that is the increased surveillance, but for now it's probably a dear price we're paying and will for a while.
However, let me give an example of the freedom in this country. A friend recently returned from visiting friends in California. She brought back as a souvenir three toilet paper sheets... from the TP roll where she stayed. Each of the sheets had printed on it a picture of George Bush and some choice quote by him. Hilarious? Maybe, depends on your point of view. Permissible? You bet!
I may not be happy the world is a bit more wrapped around the axle these days, but I am happy to live in a country that has enough freedom that you can print the president's face on toilet paper.
Bring it, tough guy. You pathetic tofu eaters would be shot to rags in 36 hours. You'd face not only the full force of the police and military, but many millions of fascist counter-revolutionary baby-eaters like me. And we are positively awash in guns and ammo. I could arm a platoon with the contents of my gun room, most of which are off-paper private purchases.
You had better reconcile yourself to the democratic process, just as I had to do in the Clinton years, or you will face certain doom.
-ccm
Too much Law; not enough Order.
Proud of Reagan? From a foreigner's perspective, he was the worst. During the Reagan/Thatcher era the US and other countries were actively sponsoring terrorism in other countries. Eventually the chickens came home to roost and it is hard not to gloat. Pres Bush is an angel compared to Reagan.
Oh well, what the hell...
Nothing wrong was done. Pick up a "Dummies Guide to American Government" so that you can understand that the President just doesn't launch secret programs without anyone else knowing about it. Stop skimming the headlines of articles and don't get stuck in that "read once, repeat many" syndrome. Do the research. It's not like this is the first time a program like this was launched. When did slashdot become so Anti-American? How many of our operative's identities were uncovered and made public by the news media? No one seems to be shouting TREASON and yet when SUPPORT is there for the president to use any means possible to find terrorists some people want to help the terrorists instead. Strange. I guess you just have to lose someone in a building due to a terrorist attack to appreciate what this administration is doing for you. Stop saying that America is not Free and is such a "Horrible" place to live in. Are you nuts? Have you been outside of the US lately and I don't mean some layover between flights? It's crazy out there. Take a walk in your local park and be grateful that you don't have to dodge bullets or worry about your 5 year old daughter being raped. Most importantly, if you decide to use your wonderful freedom of free speech, use it wisely. Don't spew forth nonsense. Sheep are stupid.
Oh look, another unfunny joke modded up at +5.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
Really ??? You can't think of laws in the U.S. or other "Western Countries" (if i were asian or middle eastern I think would be horribly offended) that apply only to non citizens ? Really Really Really nothing comes to mind. No right, no restrictions on action, nothing comes to mind. Hmmm you did actually make an effort to look before you posted right ??
No, the New York Times was 'holding the story in a can' in order to release it when it could be used to the most political advantage: when it could be used as propaganda to defeat the PATRIOT act.
Which Democrats and leftists should be happy about. (it lets them slam the NYT where they like, yet claim 'it is not an organ of the left' where they like.)
resigned
IMHO, the biggest turning point in our history was the civil war. We should've let the south split. Then we could've justifiably shot any of their slave hunters that came up looking. Eventually they would've collapsed economically, or their slaves would've revolted, or possibly both.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
I didn't read it. You are wasting your fucking time--just like you always do, mostly likely. Your only purpose in my life is to provide a red dot.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.