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Santa Shopped Online This Year

An anonymous reader writes "ZDNet is reporting on another blockbuster year for online shopping. Online shopping was up almost 30 percent over last year." From the article: " Clothing was the top seller in terms of dollar amount, at $5.3 billion total, up 42 percent from last year's revenue, the report said. Computer hardware and peripherals showed the most growth, 126 percent, at $4.8 billion. Consumer electronics was the second fastest growing category, garnering $4.8 billion, up 109 percent. People spent $3 billion on books online, up 66 percent, and $2.3 billion on products in the toys/video games category of hardware and software, a drop of 9 percent from last year, the study found. "

25 of 133 comments (clear)

  1. So how long .. by vodkamattvt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    before the gov't demands all those juicy sales taxes? You know its coming, especially after the huge growth in online sales every year.

    1. Re:So how long .. by DrEldarion · · Score: 2, Informative

      They really are trying to...

      It really is hard to get past the fact that it's unconstitutional, though.

    2. Re:So how long .. by theCoder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It really is hard to get past the fact that it's unconstitutional, though.

      So was income tax, once upon a time.

      Of course, in today's environment, being unconstitutional doesn't seem to stop anyone anyway.

      --
      "Save the whales, feed the hungry, free the mallocs" -- author unknown
    3. Re:So how long .. by Dr.+Cody · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Any government which allows there to be so many different sales tax rates doesn't deserve a dime from interstate transactions.

  2. That's Odd... by scheming · · Score: 5, Funny

    I got nothing at all for christmas this year... :(

  3. figures for pre-xmas only by welcher · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The summary doesn't seem to have it quite right: the $30b is an estimate of what was spent 31 Oct - 23 Dec. Which is 30% than same estimate last year. But, FTA, another company did a survey for a similar period and found total sales to be $18b, up 25% from the previous year. Which all goes to suggest there isn't an agreed measure of online spending ...

  4. Clothing, eh? by 06metzp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems odd that clothing would be the top seller online, given that it involves more to return/exchange items to an online store than a regular store if the clothes should happen to be the wrong size.

    --
    This sig left blank for page turns.
    1. Re:Clothing, eh? by nizo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Luckily I am guessing that many of the online clothing purchases consisted of about 9 square inches of actual fabric with lots of elastic straps. At least thats what I asked for from Santa before they threw me out of the mall anyway.

  5. From a retail store owner by dada21 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I own 2 (and 1/2) retail stores in the Midwest US, and this will be our final year in retail.

    Our inventory was better than or equal to more dotcoms. Our service was better (30 day DOA or defect replacement and lifetime labor). Our pricing was equal. Our hours were "better" since we were open 7 days a week.

    What killed us? Sales tax. Our average sale in 2005 for about $230 (we sell paintball, skateboards and a ton of clothing). At 7%, we were consistently $16+ over per average sale than the dotcoms, even with instant acquisition.

    2005 was our best year ever, so we're ending it at the top. Next year's outlook is bleak as many states want to raise sales tax and other fees. No thanks. In 2005 I paid more in sales tax than I did in payroll.

    I'm not mad, actually -- the dotcoms are a great way to save money AND screw the state. I feel bad about my customers who loved our store, but I also know many bought online for the higher margin items that didn't need servicing (we were not competitive on those items as we had to price in future service and were always about 20% higher).

    Local communities WILL suffer, though. Retail sales can be a big income base for the local community -- my mechanic performs almost 80% of his work for retail employees' cars. My dentist has almost 1/3rd of her patients working in retail. As retail suffers, these secondary markets will also suffer. But the positive is that the money we save in retail by shopping online should offer us more money to spend on other things.

    It was a great 5 years, I did very well financially, and in the end, the state decided they didn't want me around -- otherwise they'd have ended the vile sales tax that is quickly ruining retail.

    1. Re:From a retail store owner by GoodOmens · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So wait, you were able to succesfully compete with online retailers AND make a profit but your shutting your doors just because you don't like giving the state money?

      That doesn't make any sort of buisness sense as you stated 2005 was your best year (and you also pointed out you did very well financially.)

    2. Re:From a retail store owner by dada21 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've been in business for 16+ years (a variety of businesses). Retail wasn't my thing -- my wife begged me for a store and then I got hooked. We do constant market analyses to stay ahead of the competition -- online and brick and mortar. The outlook for next year looks BAD. My political views might seem to some a little aggressive, but I forsee a bad recession starting, and the retailers will get slammed, in my opinion.

      There's an idea I have that many people throw good money at bad problems -- I won't do that. I'll lose about $100,000 closing the stores, but that's better than losing 4 times as much if things go sour. This year was exceptional because we finally overcame some starting costs (build outs and the rest) that I paid out of my pocket. I do NOT see good things ahead in 2006, and I don't want to take that big of a risk.

    3. Re:From a retail store owner by dada21 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm not sure I understand how you went out of business.

      We didn't go out of business, we're making the choice to close our doors -- big difference. In every business, in every market, there comes a time when the old ways are obsolete. Ma and pa retail stores are pretty much antiquated, so I figured we'd best get out on top. One of my 3 stores closed up on its own (major cash flow problems and a very disloyal community), so I found my exit strategy and took it.

      Also, since you so clearly identified the problem (and have great understanding of it) what would you propose a solution to be?

      There is no solution. It is so convoluted, but in the end I have to blame government -- and I know I'll get flamed for saying that.

      Look at it this way:

      1. Our rent is outrageous -- almost $18-$25 per square foot. I fully blame this on the Fed's easy credit and a massive amount of "new" money entering the property market. There is no way my main store's rent should be $5000 per month -- but it is! This is in a town of 4000 people, mind you.

      2. Our payroll is outrageous -- for every $1 I pay my employee, I have almost $1.50 to also pay to government and accountants (because of the tax laws). There's no way around it, especially since the warehouses who sell for the big dotcoms hire people either at minimum wage, or as contractors below minimum wage. I have friends who work at the big dotcoms in the warehouses and they're practically slaves.

      3. We pay 7% to sales tax, plus the an additional 3.5% to accountants to handle the sales tax. One store files over 45 different forms a year for various government bodies. This puts us at a significant penalty over companies that don't have to pay this portion.

      4. We pay a larger portion in shipping -- we don't move millions annually so we don't get the same discounts as the big guys.

      But its ok! The dotcoms won because they were more efficient. Yes, my customers who lose me will lose great service and a very community oriented business, but if they weren't willing to pay the extra 15-20%, why should I take a big risk?

      Retail is dead, except for the megacorps who have ways around the issues plaguing me. I recently found out 3 super stores in my neighboring town get a sales tax rebate -- they charge 7% to the consumer but get to keep over half of it. Yeah, that's fair.

    4. Re:From a retail store owner by dada21 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Aren't you the same fucktard who pays his employee's minimum wage anyway.

      Yes. I pay minimum wage salaries, plus up to 66% profit from each project. My lowest paid employee works 15 hours a week and takes home about $65,000 annually (minimum wage plus profit sharing).

      On top of that, I am the lowest paid of my entire staff (including bonuses, profit sharing and dividends). So don't think I am some rich bitch. I drive a 1996 Toyota Corolla with no power accessories.

    5. Re:From a retail store owner by fimbulvetr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He has another comment here:
      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=172698&cid=143 75640

      Basically, he has an exit strategy. Something a lot of people with businesses/investments don't have. An exit strategy is essential and following it is even more essential. Personally, I applaud him for such a move. He might lose some money on it (Costs of shutting down, lost profits), but chances are good that he's probably going to be correct more often than not on the signals he's getting. Sometimes it's just better to quit while you're ahead, especially in a case like this when he can see some clouds moving in.

    6. Re:From a retail store owner by GoodOmens · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Fair enough response. A little more clear :-).

      Sounds like you should just join em. Keep your invetory, buy cheap space where realestate is cheap (ie where window shoppers dont go .. or hell to start this venture move to your garage). Get a internet connection and open a online store ;-).

      With some decent marketing using google adsense you will have customers in no time.

    7. Re:From a retail store owner by penguin_dance · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I can't let this pass...

      In 2005 I paid more in sales tax than I did in payroll.

      YOU didn't pay the sales tax. WE (i.e., your customers) did! Sales tax is a no loss collection with you as the collection agent for the state. In fact, you could very well invest the money until it's due that quarter to make some profit. In my state, if you pay it by a certain time you get a (tiny) rebate. However, If you spent it on other things instead of keeping it separate and then had to scrape it together every three months, shame on you.

      If things stink so much in the bricks and sticks world, but you still have a viable business, why not go on-line instead of closing down? Seems to me you're cutting off your nose to spite the state. There was a retail chain called Egghead that totally closed their physical stores and went online to become New Egg. Very daring at the time they did it. I believe they're making a tidy profit AND I can tell you the prices are a WHOLE lot better than when they had a store in my community!

      Local communities WILL suffer, though. Retail sales can be a big income base for the local community

      It seems you consider someone in retail only if they have a physical shop. With exception of the landlords wanting to rent space, I think e-business could HELP small towns and SAVE a lot of mom and pop shops because they can appeal WORLDWIDE instead of just to their community. Diversification will save a small-town business, because you're not sweating when a new Wal*Mart or other larger chain moves into town if you've got a expanded customer base.

      Businesses large and small have to change and roll with what's out there. Small businesses have the advantage of being more flexable than say a Montgomery Wards or a Mervyns. You've got to pick up your head and see what the trends are. Or you can just quit and sit on the porch and watch the bigger dogs go by.

      --
      If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
    8. Re:From a retail store owner by vsprintf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your lowest paid works 15 hours a week for $65k a year! Sweet Jebus. Perhaps you're paying your staff a little too much.

      If you check the guy's comments from last week, none of the numbers ever add up. He pays people minimum wage, yet they make huge salaries, but the government takes it all, but his employees love it, etc., etc. Perhaps he's exaggerating a little bit.

    9. Re:From a retail store owner by dada21 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sorry, I meant those numbers for my IT business, not my retail business. The poster was trolling about my pay rates -- minimum wage plus very high (up to 66%) project profit sharing -- in my IT business. My retail pay rates are much lower, but about double the national take-home average.

      We're reviewing our retail businesses for 2007 -- we might decommission our big stores and open a large quantity of tiny shops where the manager is also a significant owner (30% or so), so that we can tie the pay to the market. Always things to research.

    10. Re:From a retail store owner by dada21 · · Score: 2, Informative

      1 of my 3 businesses was closed partially due to sales tax inequities, but I can't go into details right now due to legal reasons.

      It was our best year, yes -- the first 7 months were record setting, the last 5 months were the worst in history. Katrina, gas prices, and overall recessionary valleys lead us to make the choice to downsize and regroup for 2007.

      I'm not pissed that we pay taxes and dotcoms don't -- I don't think anyone should. I would hate to see online purchases taxed. Taxes decrease purchases -- watch Chicago lose even more money after adding a 70 cent/pack cigarette tax today.

      I don't want to deal with skimming the law, I just want to provide what the customer wants at a price that is reasonable to me, as well. This is no longer the case. Both my retail industries are conglomerating in order to overcome a very high cost of doing business (again, due to government regulations and restrictions). When my 9 suppliers turn into 3, I lose the power to purchase cheaply. Heck, even "free trade" Bush is killing me by keeping T-shirt and cotton tariffs high, but allowing some large retailers to work around it.

      As for the item that we sell for a high margin, they're very cheap items -- $4 - $6 retail. Normally we sell thousands of them a month, but the dotcoms just give them away at a loss. Very competitive, and I cheer their business sense, but I just can't do it, and I can't give up a key element to paying my overhead and pay.

  6. North Carolina already does... by artemis67 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    however, it's up to the individual to volunarily report all internet purchases on their state tax form, so it's a wonder why they even bothered to pass the law.

  7. Cracking down on use taxes by Yartrebo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wonder if online retailers would change their tune if there was a major crackdown on people evading paying their use taxes. When you buy something online, you are responsible to pay your state a tax equal to the difference between the local rate and the rate you paid (essentially the full sales tax for most online purchases). It isn't that hard to track violators. If ABC web shopping doesn't collect sales taxes AND a citizen of the state received a package from them AND said citizen filled in $0 for their use tax, one can deduce that said citizen underreported their use tax by at least that amount. A list of packages could be generated by forcing companies making local deliveries to report a list of all packages delivered (this would require a federal law as it falls under the Elastic Clause of the Constitution). If you cannot provide the receipts proving you accrued no more use tax than you declared, then you pay the tax with penalties and interest.

    Personally, I feel it would be a lot easier and trample on far fewer liberties to just have the web retailer collect sales tax.

  8. Move to Oregon by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We don't have sales tax. Of course, the property tax is a killer, so you can then complain that online stores can be located in very inexpensive locations.

  9. The modern high-tech Santa Claus by btarval · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The modern image of Santa Claus is, I'm afraid, a sad one.

    Santa would HAVE to shop on-line this year. It would be the only way that he could legally get the toys.

    The old way of doing things, by having his elves make the toys, is now illegal. It constitutes "Intellectual Property theft". And WIPO, the RIAA and MPAA all joined forces to force Saint Nick to adhere to the New World Order.

    Our now less jolly old Saint Nick has had to negotiate Patent Cross-licensing, Manufacturing, Trademark and Copyright agreements with all of the major corporate entities this year. This left little time to build toys; hence the need for Santa's web shopping spree.

    Consequently, the Elves have had their prior work outsourced to the Elves in India, China, and elsewhere. Fortunately, they are still gainfully employed, as they have now become either high-powered Lawyers or PEB's (Pointy-eared bosses). This was a bit hard on the Elves, as they are normally good, by nature.

    Santa's visits have also had to come to a stop. The delivery by flying Reindeer constituted illegal border crossings and smuggling, as well as breaking and entering via the Chimney. Now he has to use UPS.

    The various State Attorneys General are also looking into the issue of whether Interstate taxes have to be paid, from previous years.

    Somehow, I liked the old way of doing things (before this ad-hoc notion of "Intellectual Property" was created) much better.

    --
    The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
  10. Convenience is valuable, but not the only factor by N3Bruce · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A lot of electrons are being thrown around about how sales tax is giving internet retailers an 'unfair advantage' compared to their brick and mortar counterparts. I ended up splitting my money roughly evenly between Amazon and their ilk, and their brick and mortar equivalents. Even with roughly equal prices, the internet stores allow the customer to avoid a major costly, time consuming, and stressful part of holiday shopping: the trip to the mall. If you figure the cost of car operation, and the time wasted driving, parking, walking past stores you won't patronize, and the aches and pains of shlepping all those packages around, sales tax barely registers. People are realizing that avoiding much of the hassle is valuable in itself.

    On the other hand, when I finally broke down and went to the local Mega Mall and went into the Books a Million to get a few fill-in gifts, I was surprised by how much being able to scan a large number of titles in a very short time was helpful in selecting gifts for hard to buy for relatives. While Amazon has their suggestive selling algorithms to suggest related information, seeing a book out of the corner of my eye frequently had me saying K--- would like this or TR would like that. It just isn't possible to present that kind of information as completely online as it is in a brick and mortar environment.

  11. Re:Fair tax... by GigsVT · · Score: 2, Interesting

    kfg:

    If you run a business today you are a tax collector in every sense of the word. You withhold payroll taxes, you charge sales taxes, you file 1099s on interest and dividends you issue to ensure that the recipients pay the tax.

    Businesses are already the main collectors of tax. Many even wind up paying $10,000 a year or more for accountants and accounting software to make sure they don't screw the taxes up.

    The Fair Tax just simplifies the process by making all the federal taxes one simple to compute percentage.

    The only legitimate challenge to the fair tax I've ever heard was from the man soon to be governor of Virginia, Tim Kaine. He said that just as you would diversify your investments, the government should have a diversified tax base, and the Fair Tax puts all your eggs in one basket. I don't agree with this for various reasons, but that's the only challenge to the Fair Tax I've ever heard that is even valid.

    --
    I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.