Slashdot Mirror


Einstein Has Left the Building

Ant writes to tell us of an interesting editorial by John Horgan that is being run by the New York Times asking "will there ever be another Einstein?". The author looks at why Einstein holds such a hallowed position in public opinion and why it will be so hard for any one physicist to attain the same level of fame today. From the article: "The paradoxical answer, Gleick suggested, is that there are so many brilliant physicists alive today that it has become harder for any individual to stand apart from the pack. In other words, our perception of Einstein as a towering figure is, well, relative."

34 of 443 comments (clear)

  1. As Einstein once said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Imagination is more important than knowledge."

    1. Re:As Einstein once said... by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      More importantly, this may be impossible because of what we are trying to measure and how we are trying to measure it. What is light? A particle? A wave? It has qualities of both - so the question of 'exactly what it is we are measuring' is not ascertainable and is a cautionary tale for us: we only know as much as we think we understand at any given moment; new ways of approaching hard problems can alter what we consider 'reality' in the blink of an eye.

      There is always a duck-billed platypus to throw a monkey wrench into the works...

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
  2. Personality, not brains by JehCt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ScuttleMonkey's summary is bunkum. Einstein was unique because of his character, not his genius. The masses recognized that Einstein was an extraordinarily humane and humble man.

    From Wikipedia:

    Einstein himself was deeply concerned with the social impact of scientific discoveries. His reverence for all creation, his belief in the grandeur, beauty, and sublimity of the universe (the primary source of inspiration in science), his awe for the scheme that is manifested in the material universe--all of these show through in his work and philosophy.
    Albert Einstein was much respected for his kind and friendly demeanor rooted in his pacifism. He was modest about his abilities, and had distinctive attitudes and fashions--for example, he minimized his wardrobe so that he would not need to waste time in deciding on what to wear. He occasionally had a playful sense of humor, and enjoyed sailing and playing the violin. He was also the stereotypical "absent-minded professor"; he was often forgetful of everyday items, such as keys, and would focus so intently on solving physics problems that he would often become oblivious to his surroundings. In his later years, his appearance inadvertently created (or reflected) another stereotype of scientist in the process: the researcher with unruly white hair.
    After the war, though, Einstein lobbied for nuclear disarmament and a world government: "I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth--rocks!"
    1. Re:Personality, not brains by toddbu · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Einstein was unique because of his character

      I think that the same holds true of virtually any public figure, whether it's a singer, actor, or politician. How many times to we hear the media speak of a President of the US (past and present) working to build his legacy? I don't think that Churchill or FDR spent much time worrying about legacy, yet history counts them as great men. The more you try to secure your place in history, the more elusive it becomes.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    2. Re:Personality, not brains by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Einstein was unique because of his character, not his genius. The masses recognized that Einstein was an extraordinarily humane and humble man.

      BWHAHAHA! Is this the same Einstein who pissed off 90% of his professors in college because he was such a rogue?

      Einstein was a giant among physicists because of his extrodinary intelligence. He asked the questions no one else thought to ask, and produced the answers through nothing more than logical deduction. The answers he produced were so profound and world changing that it took decades for science to really grab ahold of them.

      But perhaps the most interesting part about Mr. Einstein is that he was heavily anti-institutional. His rogue personality not only clashed heavily with the "established" scientific community (who thought they had all the answers when they had precisely zilch), but he tore them apart and made way for a completely new breed of scientist.

      Will there ever be another Einstein? No. No more than there will be another Isaac Newton. There will be a completely new figure who will have such an incredible way of looking at the Universe that it will put everyone else to shame.

    3. Re:Personality, not brains by Surt · · Score: 5, Funny

      Indeed, and we have such a visionary among us now, with a truly revolutionary view of the universe that will shatter the existing framework:

      http://www.timecube.com/

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    4. Re:Personality, not brains by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't see how the fact that Einstein was a rogue contradicts the other traits. Gandhi was undoubtedly humane and I think we probably agree that he was humble. But he was also pretty anti-establishment. While it might be reasonable to associate the rogue trait with lack of humility, I don't think it's a given.

    5. Re:Personality, not brains by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Informative

      His credo and that fact that his humanity was revealed in the way he tried to live by it. This is what people loved and respected. Newton was at least an equally great genius but unfortunately he was also an arsehole, his work (like Einstein's), is simply admired as an acedemic artifact.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    6. Re:Personality, not brains by grcumb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "I don't think that Churchill or FDR spent much time worrying about legacy, yet history counts them as great men."

      Churchill cared so much about his legacy that he wrote a 6 volume memoir of his actions during the war, modestly entitled "The Second World War." It's good reading, but make no mistake about its purpose. From start to finish it's an apologia for his every action during that time.

      And when talking about Roosevelts, I'm more prone to remember Eleanor Roosevelt as the modest one. This is a woman who, in the dark days of segregation, drove through southern towns with a pistol on the seat beside her, to address groups like the NAACP. When a bunch of up uptight matrons refused to allow a black soprano to perform at Constitution Hall in Washington, she arranged to have the concert at the Lincoln Memorial. 70,000 people attended.

      Eleanor Roosevelt was also the driving force behind one of the most important documents since Hammurabi - the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

      Churchill and Roosevelt were both extremely dynamic personalities who knew exactly how to present themselves to the public, and whose private faces were sometimes strikingly different from their public ones. That said, they both made important - critical, even - contributions to world history.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    7. Re:Personality, not brains by Fred_A · · Score: 5, Funny

      An example of Einstein explaining technical matters to the layperson (paraphrased from memory):

      Reporter : Mr Einstein, can you explain to us how the wireless works ?
      Einstein : Well, you know the telegraph, it's like a very long cat, it has its tail in New York and its head in Los Angeles. You pull the tail and the head mews.
      Reporter : Uh, yes...
      Einstein : You see, the wireless works the same except there is no cat.

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    8. Re:Personality, not brains by hackstraw · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."

      -- Winston Churchill


      Currently, we have:

      "To those of you who received honours, awards and distinctions, I say well done. And to the C students, I say you, too, can be president of the United States."

      -- George W. Bush, speaking at Yale University's 300th commencement ceremony

      Sorry, I don't know of any quotes that reveal much character from a US president in the last 40 years.

      Here are some others though from before then:

      "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

      -- Theodore Roosevelt

      "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

      --Abraham Lincoln

      Check out this progression:

      "Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."

      -- George Washington

      to:

      "The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing."

      -- Ronald Reagan, October 27, 1964

  3. They don't make 'em.... by DoraLives · · Score: 4, Funny

    like they used to.

    --
    Is it fascism yet?
  4. Show me by brian0918 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Show me the "brilliant physicists" that have published four papers in one year, each individually deserving of a Nobel Prize.

    1. Re:Show me by toddbu · · Score: 4, Funny
      If there weren't OTHER physicists publishing similar papers first, perhaps some physicists would. That's the point.

      So is your argument that publishing quality work is a zero sum game? I bet our good friend Einstein would have loved the Internet. Then he'd have blogged about ten good papers per year.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    2. Re:Show me by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I think what I meant is that Einstein was making a theory for data that others collected, and that theory wouldn't have happened without that data which needed explaining. You can't do even theoretical physics in an intellectual vacuum. At the start of the 20th century there was an explosion of new observations about things large and small. That was also almost the end of the time when you can do most of the amazing and shocking research in a modestly-funded university lab.

      Now you (usually) need huge accelerators and expensive satellites to collect fundamental data... and when those things produce readings, many people find out about them simultaneously, and the race is on. We just don't build many of these in a year, and we don't build the stuff that would really show us something exciting, since it would cost too much. So fundamental physicists may be somewhat starved for data, which is why they to off on adventures into this purely abstract mathematical string theory wonderland. Of course, they're a clever lot, and if we let them work on it longer, maybe the will find a way to test it.

  5. This is pretty obvious by poopdeville · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is pretty obvious. While many people were studying physics while Einstein worked, the mathematical methods they used tended to be relatively primitive. A precocious undergraduate can easily understand the state of physics up to Einstein's first few papers. This is not to say that Einstein wasn't insightful. He certainly was. However, we're now studying the fruits of his insights, and it takes a few years of graduate school to become an expert in even a small field. If there is a next Einstein, I foresee people studying him for years after becoming a Ph.D. before they become "experts."

    --
    After all, I am strangely colored.
    1. Re:This is pretty obvious by nmb3000 · · Score: 5, Funny
      This is not to say that Einstein wasn't insightful. He certainly was.

      I agree.

      MOD EINSTEIN UP!!!

      Re: Relativity (Score:5, Insightful)
      by Einstein (0) <speedoflight@gmail.com> on Tue Sept 18, 1905 12:42 PM

          E = mc^2

          Suck it.

      --

          God does not play dice with the universe.
      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
  6. Uh? by Quaoar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What about Hawking? You can't tell me many lay people with no interest in science don't at least know of him.

    --
    I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
    1. Re:Uh? by zerocool^ · · Score: 5, Funny


      While Hawking is well-known (he'd probably be less famous if he wasn't in a wheelchair)

      The wheelchair and speaking device is the tradeoff for sacrificing all that DEX and CHA for the high INT.

      --
      sig?
  7. huh? by danielk1982 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The paradoxical answer, Gleick suggested, is that there are so many brilliant physicists alive today that it has become harder for any individual to stand apart from the pack. In other words, our perception of Einstein as a towering figure is, well, relative."

    There were *many* brilliant physicists in Einstein's time as well.

  8. As modern physicists approach Einstein's fame... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...they become infinitely massive. Hawking achieved 99.99999% of Einstein's fame and he ended up in a wheelchair from the stress.

  9. Applied Theory? by TGK · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Einstein is also credited with a huge crossover from the theoretical to the applied aspects of physics. As a population, we tend to see the theoretical side of physics as more complex and intimidating, but the applied side as more down to earth and relevant to our day to day lives.

    Einstein's work straddled this line within his lifetime, making him a figure of daunting intellectual prowess and yet still accessable (in some small manner) by the average man. Surely this combination of theory and practice has strengthened his legacy.

    More over, Einstein lived at the height of the modernist movement in world history - a time when advances in technology could do no wrong. In the minds of many (and they would be wrong) he single-handedly brought about the revolution in the views society holds on technology. While Einstein is not to be entirely credited or blamed for post-modernism, he is often thought of as the turning point by the public at large.

    Information technology, more than any other force, has accelerated the theoretical side of physics away from the applied aspects of the same. We are capable of manipulating mathematics with far greater precision and finess than the physical world we inhabit. As a consequence, it would seem unlikely that any physicist will straddle that line between the theoretical and applied worlds in the near future.

    --
    Killfile(TGK)
    No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
  10. The Conclusion is astonishing by glomph · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, in the past several hundred years, at any given time, there have been brilliant physicists. I've known/worked for some of the best. There are one or two who really stand out in each era of physics, and Einstein overlapped several of these. Newton, Kepler, Galileo, Maxwell, et al are the true greats, and Einstein is in that category.

  11. Hindsight is 20/20 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its very easy to say today that Einstein's works are simple and obvious. Thats because they are first year teachings for most students today. However, we stand on the shoulders of giants. Someday a lot of things will seem very obvious, and those people who do the hard work of making that so will be worth of comparison with Einstein.

  12. Deep vs Narrow by ThatGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would argue two points.

    First, once you get an iconic person, that's it. The game is up for quite a while. Ever notice how all the caricatures of muscle-types take after Governor Arnold? Or how all psychiatrists take after Freud? This is not because we haven't had people with more muscles (we have) or analysts who have not helped larger numbers of people. When you have an icon, you might as well keep it. It's a reference that everyone already "gets".

    Second, I would argue that as time goes on, it becomes harder and harder to dominate a field. Look at da Vinci. He was a brilliant man to be sure. But if he were alive today, he'd never have been able to master so many fields. There is just so much research out there about the most minute aspect of any field that no one would have time to keep up. And why would we idolize the guy worked in one very small subset, when these people of past years could dominate so many fields? In a way, they had it easy. Anything they looked at represented a new area of science much the way that any explorer who sailed from Europe a thousand years ago would have been able to claim a new territory. It's much harder now; I've tried!

    Also, for those of you who have read the story, I suppose the article should not have asked "Will there be another Einstein?", but rather "Will there be another ThatGeek?". And no, there won't be as I've already registered the nick.

    --
    What are you eating? isItVeg?.
  13. Resume padding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    What are you, an immortal vampire or something?

  14. General improvement? by Twisted64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can't say much in regards to Einstein, but I know that it is getting harder to point out musical geniuses, because the bar is constantly being raised. There are thousands of violinists, who are perfectly happy to practice all day to produce perfect performances. Anything less and they simply won't be noticed. I heard a professional musician comment, some years ago, that nobody stands out any more, because so many are at the level of Heifitz.

    I played the violin for about 15 years, and had to stop, because for me the strain of a performance + the need for constant practice overshadows the joy received from playing. I now play quite happily at the back of the second violins in an orchestra - room for fun, and mistakes are rarely heard :)

    Anyway, my point is, perhaps something similar is happening in the field of science.

    --
    Consciousness is a myth. Trust me.
  15. Things have changed by Ogemaniac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Show me modern physics papers that contain math that most people with any scientific or engineering background can understand, and that are just a few pages long.

    The unsolved problems that people are working on today are much more complex, so comparing the rates at which they are solved is meaningless.

    When I was slogging through my 250 page PhD dissertation, I came across an article about disserations of such famous people as Schroedinger and other physicists of the 1920's - whose entire dissertations were about as long as Section 1.1 of my introduction.

    Trying to compare now and then is all but irrelevant.

    1. Re:Things have changed by zerocool^ · · Score: 5, Funny


      When I was slogging through my 250 page PhD dissertation, I came across an article about disserations of such famous people as Schroedinger and other physicists of the 1920's - whose entire dissertations were about as long as Section 1.1 of my introduction.

      Don't make excuses for yourself: Schroedinger's dissertation was of infinite length until observed.

      ~Will

      --
      sig?
  16. We don't need another hero... by hung_himself · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not to denigrate Einstein's prodigious achievements but general relativity would have been impossible were it not for Riemann's (and Gauss before him) work setting up differential geometry. Not to mention, the contributions by Lorentz, Minkowski and other contemporaries who we forget in our quest to annoint a scientific messiah. It seems that the public *needs* a quaint ubermensch to worship with rather than accepting the more mundane truth that scientific advances occur from the concerted work of many very bright people.

    On a scientific level, had Einstein not existed, someone else would have done the work eventually - the tools and conditions were in place for these discoveries to be made. But on a societal level, it probably would have been necessary to invent him...

  17. Re:What about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting
    String theory is patent rubbish

    On what grounds?
    But as a physical theory, it is untestable for one

    This is completely false. There are many tests that could confirm string theory. Whether there are any (below the Planck scale an accessible to human experiments) that can falsify it is another matter.
    and based on shoddy foundations from what I've understood for second.

    This is also far from true. The foundations are speculative but there are many physical reasons why those foundations were postulated. Polchinski gives a good overview.

    Ok, I never got past beginning graduate quantum mechanics but you get enough of a flavor for the way things are done.

    I did get past graduate QM, and graduate quantum field theory, general relativity, and string theory as well, and I would respectfully suggest that you do some reading about its motivations and accomplishments before you dismiss it. You will note that Glashow doesn't even call it rubbish, let alone "patent" rubbish (implying that it is obviously wrong). He merely says that it has not yet suceeded in making any new predictions that have been confirmed by experiment — which is true, but does not make a theory "rubbish".

    Personally, I think it is rather overhyped relative to its accomplishments, but the fact remains that it is the best candidate we have for either a "theory of everything" or even just for a theory of quantum gravity (and I am saying this from the perspective of someone who has worked on a competing theory).
  18. Einstein was the frst slashdotter! by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is not to say that Einstein wasn't insightful

    At first, he was a troll.
    Then he became interesting.
    But he was very underrated.
    His theories were all flamebait.
    But he was very informative.
    And insightful.
    Once in a while, funny.
    And now he's getting overrated?

    Wow!

  19. Experiments and Focus by Starker_Kull · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In most cases, the major advances in physics were preceded by the discovery and measurement of new phenomena, or old phenomena to a new & unprecedented level of accuracy. A great deal of Galileo's insights were inspired by the telescope, which allowed him to see, in great detail, that the old "imperfect earth/perfect heavens" dichotomy of Aristotle and Official Church Dogma were patiently not so. This led to rapid-fire advances in astronomy, which in turn gave Newton the crucial data to test his theory of gravitation; it's easy to assume big things attract other big things - it is the exact AMOUNT that was crucial, and when he first compared the acceleration at the Earth's surface vs. the acceleration the Moon was undergoing to keep in orbit around the Earth, he found that his inverse square force assumption was way off. He stayed quiet for a decade, when new and much more accurate data came in, correcting the previous estimates of the size, and therefore the distance of the moon. And then the acceleration of the moon towards the earth was exactly right to fit the acceleration of objects near the earth's surface and the assumption of fall off of force by the square. Then he started talking about Universal Gravitation a bit more.

    Einstein, and the rest of the quantum physicists, were following up on the recent discovery of both radioactivity and the unification of electricity and magnetism by Maxwell.

    The point I am (longwindedly) making is that ultimately new data drove the physics. We are at a point right now where it is so expensive to probe in areas we have not looked that we have an embarrassing richness of theories to match a paucity of data. The only clear-cut result that I know of that is outside the bounds of the Standard Model of particle physics is the recent revelation that neutrinos seem to change their type (electron, mu, and tau) as time passes, based on the distribution of neutrinos received on opposite sides of the Earth from the Sun (Sci-Am, I think about a year or two ago). In biology, OTOH, we have just recently been able (due to computer horsepower) to sequence massive numbers of genes, as well as make crude computer simulations of what kind of proteins these genes would construct. It is a new tool, the computer, that is allowing biology to seize the spotlight.

    There will be more Einsteins, but perhaps in biology rather than physics for a while....

    (DISCLAIMER: IANA scientist, but sometimes wish I was....)

  20. complexity does not necessarily mean brilliance by Quadraginta · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I dunno. One of the things that made Einstein great, from the scientific point of view, is that he cleared away a great deal of 19th-century complexity in optics and mechanics and replaced it with a theoretical framework of such dazzling simplicity that anyone could grasp its basic principles, but of such power that understanding its full implications demands high intelligence and decades of sustained study.

    It's like the way Copernicus swept away the huge complexity of the Ptolemaic astronomer's theory of planetary orbits, all those cycles and epicycles, with the simple and powerful idea of the elliptical orbit. Or how Mendeleev replaced the 18th century's bewildering lists of correlations between chemical properties of substances with the simple and powerful organizational principles of the Periodic Table.

    Even in my own experience as a theoretician I find the truly brilliant ideas are not complex. They're insights that drastically simplify and clarify. They're the kind of things that, when you understand them, make you slap your head in awe and envy.

    So, from this point of view, the hideous complexity of modern high-energy physics theories could well be a sign that they lack brilliance, that another Einstein is needed to clear away all the baroque epicycles, so to speak, and replace it all with something beautifully simple and far more powerful.

    Of course, this might not be true -- it might instead be the case that the basic structure of the universe is simply too complex for ordinary humans to understand even its principles. But I find this hard to believe (for no logical reason, I admit).

    So I personally disagree with Mr. Horgan. I think he's just channeling Albert Michelson in 1896 ("The more important fundamental laws and facts of physical science have all been discovered....Our future discoveries must be looked for in the sixth place of decimals.") Like Michelson, Horgan thinks that because no revolution has happened in 50 years one will never happen. But it was almost 300 years between Newton and Einstein. So I'd give it another century or two before giving up.