Slashdot Mirror


Einstein Has Left the Building

Ant writes to tell us of an interesting editorial by John Horgan that is being run by the New York Times asking "will there ever be another Einstein?". The author looks at why Einstein holds such a hallowed position in public opinion and why it will be so hard for any one physicist to attain the same level of fame today. From the article: "The paradoxical answer, Gleick suggested, is that there are so many brilliant physicists alive today that it has become harder for any individual to stand apart from the pack. In other words, our perception of Einstein as a towering figure is, well, relative."

54 of 443 comments (clear)

  1. As Einstein once said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Imagination is more important than knowledge."

    1. Re:As Einstein once said... by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      More importantly, this may be impossible because of what we are trying to measure and how we are trying to measure it. What is light? A particle? A wave? It has qualities of both - so the question of 'exactly what it is we are measuring' is not ascertainable and is a cautionary tale for us: we only know as much as we think we understand at any given moment; new ways of approaching hard problems can alter what we consider 'reality' in the blink of an eye.

      There is always a duck-billed platypus to throw a monkey wrench into the works...

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    2. Re:As Einstein once said... by FukYa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I sort of disagree here. I think what is most important is that we are on the outside of a black box trying to control what is within by sending in effectors and observing changes. Using this method, no matter how precise, we will never know what is in the box, and so will never know of all the possibilities that we are missing.

    3. Re:As Einstein once said... by OldAndSlow · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The next step is to do away with the models and know exactly what it is that we are measuring

      I think you misunderstand modeling. Take a brick. The very act of measuring the length of the brick involves modeling. Most of us use a very simple model that we learned in elementary school: length, height, width, volume. length > width; width > height; volume = length * width * height.

      But the brick doesn't have these simple dimensions. Look closely and you will see that the brick has rough edges. Our simple model of an ideal rectangular solid doesn't capture all of the details of our brick. I would go so far as to say that the brick doesn't have length, only our model of the brick does. Indeed, this discussion is actually about a model brick because like snowflakes and fingerprints, no two bricks are alike. So talking about bricks requires that we all share some mental model of what a brick is.

      For an introduction to some of the difficulties of measurement, see Mandelbrot's description of the lenght of coasts in "The Fractal Geometry of Nature."

  2. Personality, not brains by JehCt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ScuttleMonkey's summary is bunkum. Einstein was unique because of his character, not his genius. The masses recognized that Einstein was an extraordinarily humane and humble man.

    From Wikipedia:

    Einstein himself was deeply concerned with the social impact of scientific discoveries. His reverence for all creation, his belief in the grandeur, beauty, and sublimity of the universe (the primary source of inspiration in science), his awe for the scheme that is manifested in the material universe--all of these show through in his work and philosophy.
    Albert Einstein was much respected for his kind and friendly demeanor rooted in his pacifism. He was modest about his abilities, and had distinctive attitudes and fashions--for example, he minimized his wardrobe so that he would not need to waste time in deciding on what to wear. He occasionally had a playful sense of humor, and enjoyed sailing and playing the violin. He was also the stereotypical "absent-minded professor"; he was often forgetful of everyday items, such as keys, and would focus so intently on solving physics problems that he would often become oblivious to his surroundings. In his later years, his appearance inadvertently created (or reflected) another stereotype of scientist in the process: the researcher with unruly white hair.
    After the war, though, Einstein lobbied for nuclear disarmament and a world government: "I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth--rocks!"
    1. Re:Personality, not brains by toddbu · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Einstein was unique because of his character

      I think that the same holds true of virtually any public figure, whether it's a singer, actor, or politician. How many times to we hear the media speak of a President of the US (past and present) working to build his legacy? I don't think that Churchill or FDR spent much time worrying about legacy, yet history counts them as great men. The more you try to secure your place in history, the more elusive it becomes.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    2. Re:Personality, not brains by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Einstein was unique because of his character, not his genius. The masses recognized that Einstein was an extraordinarily humane and humble man.

      BWHAHAHA! Is this the same Einstein who pissed off 90% of his professors in college because he was such a rogue?

      Einstein was a giant among physicists because of his extrodinary intelligence. He asked the questions no one else thought to ask, and produced the answers through nothing more than logical deduction. The answers he produced were so profound and world changing that it took decades for science to really grab ahold of them.

      But perhaps the most interesting part about Mr. Einstein is that he was heavily anti-institutional. His rogue personality not only clashed heavily with the "established" scientific community (who thought they had all the answers when they had precisely zilch), but he tore them apart and made way for a completely new breed of scientist.

      Will there ever be another Einstein? No. No more than there will be another Isaac Newton. There will be a completely new figure who will have such an incredible way of looking at the Universe that it will put everyone else to shame.

    3. Re:Personality, not brains by Surt · · Score: 5, Funny

      Indeed, and we have such a visionary among us now, with a truly revolutionary view of the universe that will shatter the existing framework:

      http://www.timecube.com/

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    4. Re:Personality, not brains by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't see how the fact that Einstein was a rogue contradicts the other traits. Gandhi was undoubtedly humane and I think we probably agree that he was humble. But he was also pretty anti-establishment. While it might be reasonable to associate the rogue trait with lack of humility, I don't think it's a given.

    5. Re:Personality, not brains by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Informative

      His credo and that fact that his humanity was revealed in the way he tried to live by it. This is what people loved and respected. Newton was at least an equally great genius but unfortunately he was also an arsehole, his work (like Einstein's), is simply admired as an acedemic artifact.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    6. Re:Personality, not brains by Anpheus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Really, I thought Euler had already deduced that space might be curved due to the properties of the universe, but was unable to find corroborating evidence and failed to publish his theories after decades of searching. At one time, he chose to try and determine the angles between three mountain peaks using techniques he developed for measurement, but was unable to establish that space was curved because the difference was within acceptable error for his equipment. Laser inferometry showed that he would have had to be accurate between 1-10 and 1-20 degrees in order to show that space was curved. The fact that he deduced this and sought evidence for it without any prodding or any recorded reason make Euler clearly the intellectual superior. Nevertheless, I must agree with earlier posters, Einstein's personality are what made him a household name.

    7. Re:Personality, not brains by grcumb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "I don't think that Churchill or FDR spent much time worrying about legacy, yet history counts them as great men."

      Churchill cared so much about his legacy that he wrote a 6 volume memoir of his actions during the war, modestly entitled "The Second World War." It's good reading, but make no mistake about its purpose. From start to finish it's an apologia for his every action during that time.

      And when talking about Roosevelts, I'm more prone to remember Eleanor Roosevelt as the modest one. This is a woman who, in the dark days of segregation, drove through southern towns with a pistol on the seat beside her, to address groups like the NAACP. When a bunch of up uptight matrons refused to allow a black soprano to perform at Constitution Hall in Washington, she arranged to have the concert at the Lincoln Memorial. 70,000 people attended.

      Eleanor Roosevelt was also the driving force behind one of the most important documents since Hammurabi - the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

      Churchill and Roosevelt were both extremely dynamic personalities who knew exactly how to present themselves to the public, and whose private faces were sometimes strikingly different from their public ones. That said, they both made important - critical, even - contributions to world history.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    8. Re:Personality, not brains by Fred_A · · Score: 5, Funny

      An example of Einstein explaining technical matters to the layperson (paraphrased from memory):

      Reporter : Mr Einstein, can you explain to us how the wireless works ?
      Einstein : Well, you know the telegraph, it's like a very long cat, it has its tail in New York and its head in Los Angeles. You pull the tail and the head mews.
      Reporter : Uh, yes...
      Einstein : You see, the wireless works the same except there is no cat.

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    9. Re:Personality, not brains by hackstraw · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."

      -- Winston Churchill


      Currently, we have:

      "To those of you who received honours, awards and distinctions, I say well done. And to the C students, I say you, too, can be president of the United States."

      -- George W. Bush, speaking at Yale University's 300th commencement ceremony

      Sorry, I don't know of any quotes that reveal much character from a US president in the last 40 years.

      Here are some others though from before then:

      "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

      -- Theodore Roosevelt

      "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

      --Abraham Lincoln

      Check out this progression:

      "Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."

      -- George Washington

      to:

      "The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing."

      -- Ronald Reagan, October 27, 1964

    10. Re:Personality, not brains by corbettw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Check out this progression:

      "Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."

      -- George Washington

      to:

      "The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose. So we have come to a time for choosing."

      -- Ronald Reagan, October 27, 1964


      There isn't as much difference between those statements as you seem to imply. Consider the very next sentance in Reagan's speech:
      "Public servants say, always with the best of intentions, "What greater service we could render if only we had a little more money and a little more power." But the truth is that outside of its legitimate function, government does nothing as well or as economically as the private sector. "

      Also consider his famous line, "Government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem." There's a reason why Reagan is considered the father of the modern conservative movement, and it's not because he was pro-government.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
  3. They don't make 'em.... by DoraLives · · Score: 4, Funny

    like they used to.

    --
    Is it fascism yet?
  4. Show me by brian0918 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Show me the "brilliant physicists" that have published four papers in one year, each individually deserving of a Nobel Prize.

    1. Re:Show me by toddbu · · Score: 4, Funny
      If there weren't OTHER physicists publishing similar papers first, perhaps some physicists would. That's the point.

      So is your argument that publishing quality work is a zero sum game? I bet our good friend Einstein would have loved the Internet. Then he'd have blogged about ten good papers per year.

      --
      If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
    2. Re:Show me by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I think what I meant is that Einstein was making a theory for data that others collected, and that theory wouldn't have happened without that data which needed explaining. You can't do even theoretical physics in an intellectual vacuum. At the start of the 20th century there was an explosion of new observations about things large and small. That was also almost the end of the time when you can do most of the amazing and shocking research in a modestly-funded university lab.

      Now you (usually) need huge accelerators and expensive satellites to collect fundamental data... and when those things produce readings, many people find out about them simultaneously, and the race is on. We just don't build many of these in a year, and we don't build the stuff that would really show us something exciting, since it would cost too much. So fundamental physicists may be somewhat starved for data, which is why they to off on adventures into this purely abstract mathematical string theory wonderland. Of course, they're a clever lot, and if we let them work on it longer, maybe the will find a way to test it.

    3. Re:Show me by ozmanjusri · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At the start of the 20th century there was an explosion of new observations about things large and small.

      And now with databases and networking we can aggregate data across disciplines like never before. Fertile ground for a new Einstein, I would have thought.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
  5. This is pretty obvious by poopdeville · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is pretty obvious. While many people were studying physics while Einstein worked, the mathematical methods they used tended to be relatively primitive. A precocious undergraduate can easily understand the state of physics up to Einstein's first few papers. This is not to say that Einstein wasn't insightful. He certainly was. However, we're now studying the fruits of his insights, and it takes a few years of graduate school to become an expert in even a small field. If there is a next Einstein, I foresee people studying him for years after becoming a Ph.D. before they become "experts."

    --
    After all, I am strangely colored.
    1. Re:This is pretty obvious by techno-vampire · · Score: 3, Informative
      Another possible influence on this may be that at Einstein's time, there was a world war going on.

      There was a world war going on in 1905 when he published his papers? Really? Which one?

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    2. Re:This is pretty obvious by nmb3000 · · Score: 5, Funny
      This is not to say that Einstein wasn't insightful. He certainly was.

      I agree.

      MOD EINSTEIN UP!!!

      Re: Relativity (Score:5, Insightful)
      by Einstein (0) <speedoflight@gmail.com> on Tue Sept 18, 1905 12:42 PM

          E = mc^2

          Suck it.

      --

          God does not play dice with the universe.
      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
  6. Uh? by Quaoar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What about Hawking? You can't tell me many lay people with no interest in science don't at least know of him.

    --
    I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
    1. Re:Uh? by wass · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Hawking has contributed to the fields of GR and cosmology, but can you tell me the major discoveries and research he's conducted? Just because he writes a pop-science book and you've heard of him doesn't make him a 'great' in physics. Of course it doesn't mean he's not 'great' either.

      So he's done some novel things within cosmology, along with Penrose, Rees, and others, but how does that compare with Einstein? Which of Hawking's discoveries do you think is worthy of a Nobel Prize, specifically why should Hawking get one over other cosmologists? Einstein should have had at least a few more Nobel prizes (special relativity itself is worthy, not to mention GR, and his study of Brownian Motion is pretty good too).

      While Hawking is well-known (he'd probably be less famous if he wasn't in a wheelchair), Einstein's research ran a much wider gamut, including opening up entirely new areas of physics.

      --

      make world, not war

    2. Re:Uh? by zerocool^ · · Score: 5, Funny


      While Hawking is well-known (he'd probably be less famous if he wasn't in a wheelchair)

      The wheelchair and speaking device is the tradeoff for sacrificing all that DEX and CHA for the high INT.

      --
      sig?
  7. huh? by danielk1982 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The paradoxical answer, Gleick suggested, is that there are so many brilliant physicists alive today that it has become harder for any individual to stand apart from the pack. In other words, our perception of Einstein as a towering figure is, well, relative."

    There were *many* brilliant physicists in Einstein's time as well.

  8. As modern physicists approach Einstein's fame... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...they become infinitely massive. Hawking achieved 99.99999% of Einstein's fame and he ended up in a wheelchair from the stress.

  9. reign in the drug companies by User+956 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    an interesting editorial by John Horgan that is being run by the New York Times asking "will there ever be another Einstein?"

    With all the parents doping up their kids on antidepressants, I'd say not likely. (We're already seeing that Generation Y can barely wipe its own nose in the workplace. )

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
  10. Applied Theory? by TGK · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Einstein is also credited with a huge crossover from the theoretical to the applied aspects of physics. As a population, we tend to see the theoretical side of physics as more complex and intimidating, but the applied side as more down to earth and relevant to our day to day lives.

    Einstein's work straddled this line within his lifetime, making him a figure of daunting intellectual prowess and yet still accessable (in some small manner) by the average man. Surely this combination of theory and practice has strengthened his legacy.

    More over, Einstein lived at the height of the modernist movement in world history - a time when advances in technology could do no wrong. In the minds of many (and they would be wrong) he single-handedly brought about the revolution in the views society holds on technology. While Einstein is not to be entirely credited or blamed for post-modernism, he is often thought of as the turning point by the public at large.

    Information technology, more than any other force, has accelerated the theoretical side of physics away from the applied aspects of the same. We are capable of manipulating mathematics with far greater precision and finess than the physical world we inhabit. As a consequence, it would seem unlikely that any physicist will straddle that line between the theoretical and applied worlds in the near future.

    --
    Killfile(TGK)
    No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
  11. The Conclusion is astonishing by glomph · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, in the past several hundred years, at any given time, there have been brilliant physicists. I've known/worked for some of the best. There are one or two who really stand out in each era of physics, and Einstein overlapped several of these. Newton, Kepler, Galileo, Maxwell, et al are the true greats, and Einstein is in that category.

  12. Hindsight is 20/20 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its very easy to say today that Einstein's works are simple and obvious. Thats because they are first year teachings for most students today. However, we stand on the shoulders of giants. Someday a lot of things will seem very obvious, and those people who do the hard work of making that so will be worth of comparison with Einstein.

  13. Deep vs Narrow by ThatGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would argue two points.

    First, once you get an iconic person, that's it. The game is up for quite a while. Ever notice how all the caricatures of muscle-types take after Governor Arnold? Or how all psychiatrists take after Freud? This is not because we haven't had people with more muscles (we have) or analysts who have not helped larger numbers of people. When you have an icon, you might as well keep it. It's a reference that everyone already "gets".

    Second, I would argue that as time goes on, it becomes harder and harder to dominate a field. Look at da Vinci. He was a brilliant man to be sure. But if he were alive today, he'd never have been able to master so many fields. There is just so much research out there about the most minute aspect of any field that no one would have time to keep up. And why would we idolize the guy worked in one very small subset, when these people of past years could dominate so many fields? In a way, they had it easy. Anything they looked at represented a new area of science much the way that any explorer who sailed from Europe a thousand years ago would have been able to claim a new territory. It's much harder now; I've tried!

    Also, for those of you who have read the story, I suppose the article should not have asked "Will there be another Einstein?", but rather "Will there be another ThatGeek?". And no, there won't be as I've already registered the nick.

    --
    What are you eating? isItVeg?.
  14. Resume padding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    What are you, an immortal vampire or something?

  15. Re:What about... by kid+zeus · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, not one of them is considered to be in Einstein's class of intellect. The 'smartest' man in physics is supposedly Edward Witten, founder of M-theory. If you listen to the top theoretical physicists talk about him, he seems to be in the running for most brilliant physicist of all time.

  16. Einstein had Charisma by wass · · Score: 3, Informative
    Einstein did amazing research across the whole gamut of physics, that's something that is much harder to do these days. For example, his miraculous year, he posited the theory of special relativity, came up with the photoelectric effect (which was a major leap for the study of quantum mechanics), and documented Brownian Motion (which was a major proof for accepting statistical mechanics of particles, especially in fluids). But that was just one year, he made brilliant subsequent contributions to quantum mechanics and of course the theory of general relativity as well.

    Einstein put Relativity on the table, which was previously unknown except to a few as something funky going on with Maxwell's equations under a Galilean transformation. This was an entirely new field. And, when extended into General Relativity, is a huge deal. Not many people get to discover a whole new field of physics like that. Newton did with mechanics. But with E&M, it was several people making discoveries, such as Ampere and Faraday and some others. And the full theory wasn't really collected nicely until Maxwell, who also corrected Ampere's Law. And that's only the classical theory, Quantum Electro-Dynamics is another huge thing. But within classical E&M, you can say Maxwell fully documented it, but it was already an explored field (no pun intended, seriously).

    Thermodynamics and Statistical Mechanics had many people make major contributions, specifically when thermodynamics was found to be described entirely within statistical mechanical formalism. Boltzmann made major contributions, eg coming up with entropy and statistical ensembles, but his work wasn't accepted by the community and he ultimately wound up killing himself.

    One physicist that may have come close to Einstein in breadth is my favorite, Lev Davidovic Landau. Any graduate student of physics should be familiar with at least some of his ten-volume "Course of Theoretical Physics", otherwise known as Landau-Lifshitz. Landau's grad students were known to be confused during meetings where he would shift topics from superconductivity to hadron interactions, etc. Landau made many amazing contributions, and also won a Nobel Prize, but he wasn't able to open up any entirely new fields of study like Einstein was able to. He made contributions to other fields, such as 2nd-order phase transitions, superconductivity and superfluidity, etc, but no entirely new fields.

    Finally, Einstein was also rather active politically and socially, he didn't confine his efforts to the laboratory (well, really his desk since he was a theorist). He also had quite a unique physical appearance, which also contributed to his popularity. But I think, from a popular point of view, his contribution of relativity, which is probably one of the biggest scientific blowbacks to something that was previously accepted as scientifically true and complete, was the dominant factor. Of course scientifically he made many other major contributions, but for the newspapers, trumping over Newton is a rather 'hot' story.

    --

    make world, not war

  17. Didn't anyone see Family Guy? by TheOtherAgentM · · Score: 3, Funny

    Einstein worked at a patent office and stole Smith's Theory of Relativity.

  18. My take on this... by N1ghtFalcon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's funny, because I actually spent quite a long time a while back thinking about this issue. In the end, I would say it's really difficult to give a certain 'yes' or 'no' answer.

    On one hand, there is the issue that information that humans possess is increasing at exponential rate, if not faster. At one point in history, you could be a painter, a sculptor, a mathematician, a philosopher, a physicist, among other things, and still be useful to the society in all of those areas. Today however, such thing is unrealistic due to the fact of how deep each area goes, and how much must be learned of the works of those who came before you in order for you to get to the level of being able to make personal contributions.

    On the other hand, you do have to remember that a century or two ago, physics was thought to be a "finished" science. As in, many physicists around the world believed that the Newtonian model has given them all that is needed, and most viewed physics as a done deal. We understand how it works, nothing more is left to learn, move along. Then came Einstein and turned the whole thing upside down.

    While on my commutes to and from university last semester, I downloaded audio lectures on particle physics. One of the very first things the professor said was "today, most particle physicists believe that we have a solid understanding of what the world is made up of, and that, unlike a few decades ago, we really have gotten to the bottom layer of the universe." He ended the lectures (which were extremely interesting btw) by saying that as good as the standard model of physics is, we still have 23 quantum numbers that are unattainable through mathematics, ideas which defy logic, and a bunch of other theories like string which may also be onto something.

    Overall, I think that if any conclusion is to be made about the state of physics today, I would say that no, Einstein hasn't left the building. In my opinion, we are still missing something crucial about the way the world operates, but we may not realize this until advances in other technology areas such as space travel. Individuals still can make great breakthroughs, but because of issues such as the amount of foundational knowledge, the number of people working on the same things, and the money needed for some of the research, it may be more likely that future discoveries will need to be left to teams of scientists, rather than individuals.

  19. General improvement? by Twisted64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can't say much in regards to Einstein, but I know that it is getting harder to point out musical geniuses, because the bar is constantly being raised. There are thousands of violinists, who are perfectly happy to practice all day to produce perfect performances. Anything less and they simply won't be noticed. I heard a professional musician comment, some years ago, that nobody stands out any more, because so many are at the level of Heifitz.

    I played the violin for about 15 years, and had to stop, because for me the strain of a performance + the need for constant practice overshadows the joy received from playing. I now play quite happily at the back of the second violins in an orchestra - room for fun, and mistakes are rarely heard :)

    Anyway, my point is, perhaps something similar is happening in the field of science.

    --
    Consciousness is a myth. Trust me.
  20. Re:WWII by scotch · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Today, radical military tech is common-place

    I'm having trouble parsing this one; if it's radical, it can hardly be common place, no?

    --
    XML causes global warming.
  21. Re:Newton by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hm, I don't think I can agree with that. Newton was unquestionably one of the most brilliant mathematicians of all time. (Most historians will put him in the three-way tie for first with Gauss and Archimedes.) As a scientist, Newton had a sort of mixed track record once you factor out his mathematical breakthroughs. A lot of the things he did were sitting around waiting to be connected up by the math, once the Calculus arrived on the scene. (For example, the inverse-square law of gravity was generally suspected to apply to gravity by many scientists of the day, include Hooke, Wren, and Halley. But none of them could actually prove that it gave the right behaviors for orbits without Newton's mathematical skills.) If you read the works of Galileo, a generation before Newton (and who Newton almost certainly must have read, although I don't have a source on that), you can see that the man was so close with his physical principles, but lacked the mathematical tools to put it all together. (And he lacked the mathematical genius to create the tools.)

    Einstein, on the other hand, was NOT mathematically gifted by any stretch (although he wasn't stupid, either), but had an amazing ability to understand the physical principles and their general consequences. Plus, he was far more loveable than the cold, often caustic Newton.

  22. Re:The atomic bomb ruined physics in many ways by wass · · Score: 3, Insightful
    After the invention of the atomic bomb, governments realized that physicists could actually do something useful. Funding poured in and physics became a business.

    That's right, it's not like governments ever funded people to use physics to predict the trajectory of a bullet from a large gun before the atomic bomb. And moreso, it's not like they ever decided that for large distances the Coriolis force and air resistance need to be properly accounted for and thus they never needed to fund the development of electric computers.

    Nor did they ever need to understand physics to figure out the design of aerofoil wings, or the best shape to make ship hulls, before the atom bomb.

    --

    make world, not war

  23. Things have changed by Ogemaniac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Show me modern physics papers that contain math that most people with any scientific or engineering background can understand, and that are just a few pages long.

    The unsolved problems that people are working on today are much more complex, so comparing the rates at which they are solved is meaningless.

    When I was slogging through my 250 page PhD dissertation, I came across an article about disserations of such famous people as Schroedinger and other physicists of the 1920's - whose entire dissertations were about as long as Section 1.1 of my introduction.

    Trying to compare now and then is all but irrelevant.

    1. Re:Things have changed by zerocool^ · · Score: 5, Funny


      When I was slogging through my 250 page PhD dissertation, I came across an article about disserations of such famous people as Schroedinger and other physicists of the 1920's - whose entire dissertations were about as long as Section 1.1 of my introduction.

      Don't make excuses for yourself: Schroedinger's dissertation was of infinite length until observed.

      ~Will

      --
      sig?
    2. Re:Things have changed by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The unsolved problems that people are working on today are much more complex, so comparing the rates at which they are solved is meaningless.

      Or maybe it's just that nobody has found the simple solutions yet. Maybe the next Einstein will find something simple that makes string theory an embarassment in throwing brute mass math at the problem. Ya never know....

  24. We don't need another hero... by hung_himself · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not to denigrate Einstein's prodigious achievements but general relativity would have been impossible were it not for Riemann's (and Gauss before him) work setting up differential geometry. Not to mention, the contributions by Lorentz, Minkowski and other contemporaries who we forget in our quest to annoint a scientific messiah. It seems that the public *needs* a quaint ubermensch to worship with rather than accepting the more mundane truth that scientific advances occur from the concerted work of many very bright people.

    On a scientific level, had Einstein not existed, someone else would have done the work eventually - the tools and conditions were in place for these discoveries to be made. But on a societal level, it probably would have been necessary to invent him...

  25. Re:Einstein could be understood by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I don't think you appreciate the genius of Einstein completely enough. Special relativity, which has E=mc^2 as a consequence, would have been proposed by somebody real soon after 1905, had Einstein chosen to be a bullfighter instead of a physicist. I mean, the Lorentz transform was already around; Einstein just said it wasn't a device for calculation but an actual description of reality. Good idea, but not one that we needed an Einstein for.

    I think general relativity is a very different story. Without Einstein, it might have taken decades to work it out. I mean, really, it's just an amazing piece of work, and something that's hard to work up to incrementally.

    So you're right about E=mc^2 being easy for people to remember, but in a way that's a shame, because it shouldn't be taken as anything like his greatest work.

  26. Re:What about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting
    String theory is patent rubbish

    On what grounds?
    But as a physical theory, it is untestable for one

    This is completely false. There are many tests that could confirm string theory. Whether there are any (below the Planck scale an accessible to human experiments) that can falsify it is another matter.
    and based on shoddy foundations from what I've understood for second.

    This is also far from true. The foundations are speculative but there are many physical reasons why those foundations were postulated. Polchinski gives a good overview.

    Ok, I never got past beginning graduate quantum mechanics but you get enough of a flavor for the way things are done.

    I did get past graduate QM, and graduate quantum field theory, general relativity, and string theory as well, and I would respectfully suggest that you do some reading about its motivations and accomplishments before you dismiss it. You will note that Glashow doesn't even call it rubbish, let alone "patent" rubbish (implying that it is obviously wrong). He merely says that it has not yet suceeded in making any new predictions that have been confirmed by experiment — which is true, but does not make a theory "rubbish".

    Personally, I think it is rather overhyped relative to its accomplishments, but the fact remains that it is the best candidate we have for either a "theory of everything" or even just for a theory of quantum gravity (and I am saying this from the perspective of someone who has worked on a competing theory).
  27. Re:Newton by EvanED · · Score: 3, Informative
    If you were to calculate the motion of a pitched baseball under Newtoinian and Einsteinin phsyics, the difference would be too small to measure, and for all practical purposes, they'd give exactly the same answer.

    I'll agree that if you're using physical laws to do calculations and you use Einstein instead of Newton to calculate the flight of a baseball, you're doing way too much work.

    But that doesn't make Newton right.

    I'm gonna quote Feynman because he expresses my feelings very well. This is from Six Easy Pieces (p3 in my copy; you can also find it in the "atoms in motion" chapter of Lectures), but I should say that this is a thought I've had long before reading this:

    We said that the laws of nature are approximate: that we first find the "wrong" ones, and then we find the "right" ones. .... For example, the mass of an object never seems to change: a spinning top has the same weight as a still one. So a "law" was invented: mass is constant, independent of speed. That "law" is now found to be incorrect. Mass is found to increase with velocity, but appreciable increases require velocities near that of light. A true law is: if an object moves with a speed of less than one hundred miles per second the mass is constant to within one part in a million. In some such approximate form this is a correct law. So in practice one might think that the new law makes no significant difference. Well, yes and no. For ordinary speeds we can certainly forget it and use the simple constant-mass law as a good approximation. But for high speeds we are wrong, and the higher the speed, the more wrong we are.

    Finally, and most interesting, philosophically we are completely wrong with the approximate law. Our entire picture of the world has to be altered even though the mass changes by only a little bit. This is a very peculiar thing about the philosophy, or the ideas, behind the laws. Even a very small effect sometimes requires profound changes in our ideas.
  28. Einstein was the frst slashdotter! by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is not to say that Einstein wasn't insightful

    At first, he was a troll.
    Then he became interesting.
    But he was very underrated.
    His theories were all flamebait.
    But he was very informative.
    And insightful.
    Once in a while, funny.
    And now he's getting overrated?

    Wow!

  29. Re:wrong.... by irm · · Score: 3, Funny

    Because that 4th dimension give you the time to take that square peg over to the belt sander and trim her down.

  30. Experiments and Focus by Starker_Kull · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In most cases, the major advances in physics were preceded by the discovery and measurement of new phenomena, or old phenomena to a new & unprecedented level of accuracy. A great deal of Galileo's insights were inspired by the telescope, which allowed him to see, in great detail, that the old "imperfect earth/perfect heavens" dichotomy of Aristotle and Official Church Dogma were patiently not so. This led to rapid-fire advances in astronomy, which in turn gave Newton the crucial data to test his theory of gravitation; it's easy to assume big things attract other big things - it is the exact AMOUNT that was crucial, and when he first compared the acceleration at the Earth's surface vs. the acceleration the Moon was undergoing to keep in orbit around the Earth, he found that his inverse square force assumption was way off. He stayed quiet for a decade, when new and much more accurate data came in, correcting the previous estimates of the size, and therefore the distance of the moon. And then the acceleration of the moon towards the earth was exactly right to fit the acceleration of objects near the earth's surface and the assumption of fall off of force by the square. Then he started talking about Universal Gravitation a bit more.

    Einstein, and the rest of the quantum physicists, were following up on the recent discovery of both radioactivity and the unification of electricity and magnetism by Maxwell.

    The point I am (longwindedly) making is that ultimately new data drove the physics. We are at a point right now where it is so expensive to probe in areas we have not looked that we have an embarrassing richness of theories to match a paucity of data. The only clear-cut result that I know of that is outside the bounds of the Standard Model of particle physics is the recent revelation that neutrinos seem to change their type (electron, mu, and tau) as time passes, based on the distribution of neutrinos received on opposite sides of the Earth from the Sun (Sci-Am, I think about a year or two ago). In biology, OTOH, we have just recently been able (due to computer horsepower) to sequence massive numbers of genes, as well as make crude computer simulations of what kind of proteins these genes would construct. It is a new tool, the computer, that is allowing biology to seize the spotlight.

    There will be more Einsteins, but perhaps in biology rather than physics for a while....

    (DISCLAIMER: IANA scientist, but sometimes wish I was....)

  31. strange viewpoint by abes · · Score: 3, Insightful
    First, it's a bit weird he compared Einstein to Watson and Crick. It's true, that Watson and Crick are known for discovering DNA, but stole heavily from Rosalind Frankin. Additionally, they published a single finding. Einstein wrote *several* groundbreaking papers: brownian motion, photoelectrical effect, special theory of relativity, general theory of relativity. The photoelectric effect showed that light is a packet, or quanta, giving birth to quantum mechanics.

    Second, why should we expect another Einstein, or Newton? Given that anyone's accomplishments must be measured relative to the common populace, we would expect people of such stature to be rare.

    There are many factors that go into what makes someone great. Part of it is certainly being in the right time and place. Another is the social climate. Is Einstein the equal of Newton, or vice versa? That is difficult to say. They lived in completely different times. Could one do the same accomplishments as the other? One common element that appears between the two is that they were both fairly prolific (Newton did calculus, physics, and ironically enough, why light is a wave). I'd be curious if other people could come up with other historical science figure that also had several major findings. Feynman? Turing?

  32. complexity does not necessarily mean brilliance by Quadraginta · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I dunno. One of the things that made Einstein great, from the scientific point of view, is that he cleared away a great deal of 19th-century complexity in optics and mechanics and replaced it with a theoretical framework of such dazzling simplicity that anyone could grasp its basic principles, but of such power that understanding its full implications demands high intelligence and decades of sustained study.

    It's like the way Copernicus swept away the huge complexity of the Ptolemaic astronomer's theory of planetary orbits, all those cycles and epicycles, with the simple and powerful idea of the elliptical orbit. Or how Mendeleev replaced the 18th century's bewildering lists of correlations between chemical properties of substances with the simple and powerful organizational principles of the Periodic Table.

    Even in my own experience as a theoretician I find the truly brilliant ideas are not complex. They're insights that drastically simplify and clarify. They're the kind of things that, when you understand them, make you slap your head in awe and envy.

    So, from this point of view, the hideous complexity of modern high-energy physics theories could well be a sign that they lack brilliance, that another Einstein is needed to clear away all the baroque epicycles, so to speak, and replace it all with something beautifully simple and far more powerful.

    Of course, this might not be true -- it might instead be the case that the basic structure of the universe is simply too complex for ordinary humans to understand even its principles. But I find this hard to believe (for no logical reason, I admit).

    So I personally disagree with Mr. Horgan. I think he's just channeling Albert Michelson in 1896 ("The more important fundamental laws and facts of physical science have all been discovered....Our future discoveries must be looked for in the sixth place of decimals.") Like Michelson, Horgan thinks that because no revolution has happened in 50 years one will never happen. But it was almost 300 years between Newton and Einstein. So I'd give it another century or two before giving up.