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The Final Moments of Asheron's Call 2

Via Kotaku, the final moments of Asheron's Call 2 in text and images. Highlights include the in-game appearance of a community moderator, and a killable version of a notorious dragon. Then, a lost connection. Gamespot has the story as well. From that article: "Turbine performed a little house cleaning this weekend as it shut down its massively multi-player online role-playing game Asheron's Call 2. Originally released in November of 2002, the fantasy game world met an unceremonious armageddon December 30. As of press time, the Asheron's Call 2 forums were still up for mourning players, and blow-by-blow accounts of the world of Dereth's final moments had started circulating the Web. "

75 comments

  1. at least we have asheron's call by Falconoffury · · Score: 1

    At least we have the first Asheron's Call which is going quite well right now.

  2. Nietzche... by aapold · · Score: 1

    Well, this didn't kill Turbine, hopefully they learned from this and are stronger as a result (despite it being a rather expensive lesson).

    --
    "Waste not one watt!" - CZ
  3. Game box by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 2, Interesting
    So now that this is over, when will these players be getting back the $60 they forked over for the game initially? I mean, you purchase the game and pay the monthly fee, shouldn't there be some sort of guarantee that you can keep playing the game as long as you want?

    What's that? There isn't?

    I swear, there should be a law that if a MMORPG closes its servers, they open the source to the playerbase so people can create and host their own servers off of it.

    I'm so sick of paying for a game that may not exist in the future. Its the same reason why I'd never sign up for a subscription music service.

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    1. Re:Game box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Yeah, Columbia House is SO in danger of closing its doors... o.O

    2. Re:Game box by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I swear, there should be a law that if a MMORPG closes its servers, they open the source to the playerbase so people can create and host their own servers off of it.

      It's called the public domain, and it won't happen within your lifetime, nor that of your great grandchildren, nor even within the lifetime of the codebase.

      Welcome to the new dark ages as mandated by international copyright law.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    3. Re:Game box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not that kind of subscription, retard. The kind of subscription like Napster (or O'Reilly bookshelf) where you have to keep paying for access constantly or you'll lose what you've "purchased".

    4. Re:Game box by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wtf is this tripe? The public domain doesn't require anyone to release the source to their servers after the expired time. They could eschew their copyright right now by announcing that all their server code is now a part of the public domain and unless they were to release the code for people to see it wouldn't mean a damn thing. Trade secrets last as long as you can keep them.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    5. Re:Game box by MBraynard · · Score: 1

      One difference - and the difference that is at the heart of the initial complaint, is that there is no upfront expense of using Janus/PlayforSure. Another big difference is that when you decide to start paying again, it is still there for you. (And if you REALLY want to own it, you can actually buy it FOREVER at 80% of what you would pay for on Itunes.)

    6. Re:Game box by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      The real problem isn't necessarily server code. It's server hardware, and bandwidth; a mmorpg server can't run on the kind of hardware mere mortals can afford. And the amount of bandwidth isn't cheap either.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    7. Re:Game box by Cecil · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, public domain is what it becomes. It's actually true that copyright law (used to) require that something become public domain after the copyright period has expired.

      Now, I agree it doesn't require anyone to release the source, unfortunately. But what it does do, is allow completely legal reverse engineering, emulation, and cloning. Trade secrets have never been a problem in the software world. bnetd never used any leaked source code, they simply sniffed the network traffic and figured out what it was doing. If copyright ever expired on the Battle.net protocol, then bnetd would be legal.

      Unfortunately, copyright can now be extended indefinitely, so this is all a moot point.

    8. Re:Game box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You apparently missed the universal sign of sarcasim:

      o.O

    9. Re:Game box by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      Games are just as subject to reality and commerce as everything else. If a business venture isn't commercially successful, it closes eventually.

      The fact that people lost something (in this case, a game they enjoyed playing) is sad, but that shouldn't make it mandatory for the developers to open source the game. It should always be the choice of the copyright holder, for as long as the copyright exists.

      Besides - where's the guarantee with anything in life? Sometimes you just have to accept it and move on.

    10. Re:Game box by stlhawkeye · · Score: 1

      I have the source for Ultima On-Line 2 around here somewhere. Knew a developer on the team before it was cancelled, he has a copy. Just no art files.

      --
      "I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
    11. Re:Game box by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      You're telling me that there isn't a caveat that if Company X has discontinued Product Y, it automatically goes into the public domain? How do all those "25 nintendo games on your TV" joysticks get made, then?

      So, like, if Scrooge ran Phizer, and the company discovered a cure for AIDS, he could simply say "nya nya, you can't have any!" and sit on it for 90 years or so?

    12. Re:Game box by N_Piper · · Score: 1

      The 25 in one nintendo joysticks ARE illegal. In fact I beleave if you check the archives you will find an artical here about nintendo cracking down on them and the malls that let those people set up shop

    13. Re:Game box by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      "So now that this is over, when will these players be getting back the $60 they forked over for the game initially?"

      About five minutes after Sega gives out rebates for people who bought the Dreamcast version of Phantasy Star Online (at least version 2, which was pay-for-play).

    14. Re:Game box by leland242 · · Score: 1

      Pfizer, and all the other pharmaceutical companies, are in the business of making money. IANAL, but if they found a cure for AIDS, they have no legal obligation to sell it.

      A pharma company spends loads of money in R&D. They want to recoup that loss and also make more money for future research...and that cycle is why they wouldn't just sit on it.

    15. Re:Game box by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      I guess someone should have told that to the folks behind Neverwinter Nights...oh wait...

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    16. Re:Game box by Methlin · · Score: 1

      No they'd sit on it; there's no money in curing diseases, but a whole ton of money to be made in managing a disease.

    17. Re:Game box by Psychochild · · Score: 1

      I'm so sick of paying for a game that may not exist in the future.

      Eventually everything fades into oblivion. I have a bunch of old console games (NES, SNES, Genesis, PS1) and if the console goes bad I can't play it anymore. Should Sony/Nintendo/whoever have to give me a refund? (And, yeah, PS1 games play on a PS2, but some games don't like my favorite Monster Rancher. Plus, will the PS3 play PS1 games?) So, this argument is really meaningless.

      Anyway, I'm going to disagree with your assessment that games need to be released to the public. The game I currently own and operate, Meridian 59, was shut down by The 3DO Company. It took a while before 3DO was willing to sell, but we did finally acquire the game. The game would have been worth a lot less if it had been forced to be released.

      We keep the game closed source for now because we want the game to remain as we, the developers that have poured a lot into the game, see fit. The game doesn't make us much money, but we're happy that the game is still alive and under our control. It'll never be the biggest, but we still love it. :)

      Unfortunately, it looks like this won't happen with AC2. AC1 is still going strong as far as I know, and still making a profit. So, the name "Asheron's Call" still has value and you can't sell off a game with so much intellectual property in it. You could write up a license, but that's more expensive than just sitting on it all.

      That said, I think it would be nice if there were a way for games to enter the public domain eventually. The whole purpose of the public domain is to make sure that everyone gets to benefit from the creative efforts of others. It's a shame that some important cultural works are tied up and will never been seen in even our children's lifetimes if things keep going as they have.

      Some thought from the developer side of the fence.

      --
      Brian "Psychochild" Green
      MMO developer's blog
    18. Re:Game box by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

      If copyright ever expired on the Battle.net protocol, then bnetd would be legal.



      Wrong. The DMCA doesn't protect the copyright of the Battle.net protocol (there is none), it (and the way it does so is flawed) protects the copyright of the works served by the Battle.net protocol. If, for example, all the code which makes up the Battle.net system's copyright were to expire and Blizzard released a new game which used Battle.net without any changes, bnetd would still be "illegal" (your word, not mine).

      Now, on a tangent from what we are really talking about, I must say that whether or not the bnetd case should have gone the way it did is certainly up for debate.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    19. Re:Game box by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Inventions fall under patent law and patents expire much quicker than copyright and unlike copyright, patent lifetimes become shorter with each law passed on them. Pfizer would have to grab a patent and that patent would expire after 17 years or so (not sure how long patents currently go).

      Discontinuation is not a reason, most of those plug-into-your-TV joysticks (at least those sold in stores) are licensed products and the rest is illegal. Besides, even if such a law existed Nintendo wouldn't fall under it, they constantly rerelease their ancient games on various formats and are planning to implement a download service for all of their past games.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    20. Re:Game box by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      PSO can be played without going online. Try that with AC2. Or Half-Life 2, for that matter.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    21. Re:Game box by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      So the patent (nes box) will expire before the copyright (came carts?). That'll certainly be interesting.

      In any case, doesn't that make it already legal to made knock-off NES consoles since the system was out in '86?

    22. Re:Game box by Salamande · · Score: 1

      "In any case, doesn't that make it already legal to made knock-off NES consoles since the system was out in '86?"

      Yes it does.

    23. Re:Game box by Salamande · · Score: 1

      Hell, I'm still pissed about Steel Battalion: Line of Contact. Talk about screwing the loyal customers. At least I can still play the original...

    24. Re:Game box by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Yes, nobody wants to cure AIDS and earn a trillion dollars for it.

      Same for cancer and heart disease.

      Now, if s corporation knew it would have to invest a hundred billion dollars in research, and had a crystal ball wherein governments around the world would not pay them, and just l00t the product and manufacture it locally with no royalties, would that encourage or discourage the company from doing the research?

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    25. Re:Game box by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      > At times warez groups can be even more anal about their
      > "property" than the most paranoid copyright holders.

      Witness the angry fights various web sites get into when someone else "steals" their scanned picture. "I violated copyright by scanning in this picture to put on my web site. How dare you steal my hard work by putting it on your web site!"

      Truth is stranger than fiction.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  4. Am I the only one by The+Infidel · · Score: 0

    Am I the only one who feels a bit sad about this?
    I never played this game, but when I had to drop out of CoH (new humans will make you do that) , I was depressed for a day or two.

  5. They should have gone out with a bang by Zork+the+Almighty · · Score: 2, Funny

    I would have liked to see them go out with a bang. Unleash hordes of monsters into the towns and have the server randomly modify items!

    --

    In Soviet America the banks rob you!
    1. Re:They should have gone out with a bang by MBraynard · · Score: 1

      You seem to assume there was a server population available to observe this?

    2. Re:They should have gone out with a bang by Zork+the+Almighty · · Score: 1

      They announced the game was going under and everybody left. That's just sad. They should have told players the game is going to end and promised a massive spectacle. Then in the last month:

      1) flood the world with gold and crazy items
      2) make all the NPCs go berserk
      3) give people random powers and turn off all controls on player/NPC killing
      4) unleash monsters with random stats everywhere
      5) let anyone on the internet download a client and play

      When the servers go down then you pull the plug. I think it would have been hilarious!

      --

      In Soviet America the banks rob you!
    3. Re:They should have gone out with a bang by cgenman · · Score: 1

      If they did stuff like this, they wouldn't have to shut down the game.

      I would have liked to see evil triumph and destroy the world, shutting down the AC2+ universe "forever," but that's just me. Also, give everyone on AC2 a free 4 month trial of AC1.

    4. Re:They should have gone out with a bang by PakProtector · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is there is another person who wants to play The World from .hack?!

      --

      Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
      man: no entry for woman in the manual.
      "Qua!?"

    5. Re:They should have gone out with a bang by blincoln · · Score: 1

      That would have actually been really cool - sort of like Sacrifice, where as you play through whichever path you've chosen, the world becomes more and more ravaged until finally you're fighting the ultimate evil in a charred wasteland.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    6. Re:They should have gone out with a bang by MBraynard · · Score: 1
      That sounds nice and all, but Why?

      That programming time for them is probably better invested in D&D - or even the original AC.

  6. Jesus... Just Jesus... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get a fucking life.

    1. Re:Jesus... Just Jesus... by The+Infidel · · Score: 0

      Way to show your keen intellect there, bud.

  7. it woulda been nice.... by B3AST! · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ....if they went out better than that...something fun for the players, not so sappy

    they shoulda turned it all PvP, and each day for like a month they'd continuously add more mobs.....once you died, you're DEAD...no coming back.....no creating new chars. and then finally they'd come up with a final survivor and he'd win something

    like...a cake

    1. Re:it woulda been nice.... by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      Except people would just stop logging in to try and be the last guy and you'd have to pull the plug anyway

    2. Re:it woulda been nice.... by nytmare · · Score: 1

      What good is being the last man alive? There would be no one to share your "accomplishment" with.

    3. Re:it woulda been nice.... by B3AST! · · Score: 1

      the cake man....the cake

  8. Looks... by RaNdOm+OuTpUt · · Score: 0

    like a dupe to me.

    --
    13. Any legal action is absolutly excluded. (Pi World Ranking List rules)
  9. Real Life: much more vivid than a MMORPG by Noodlenose · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    Urgh.

    This rather makes me think these guys need a life. I don't know, meeting on a virtual mountain with your virtual friends (probably people you wouldn't even feel comfortable sitting next to on a bus)?

    MMORPG's just feed of people's loneliness. Most players would probably better off investing the money into their real life.

    1. Re:Real Life: much more vivid than a MMORPG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I don't know about you, but I'm perfectly happy in my mom's basement.

    2. Re:Real Life: much more vivid than a MMORPG by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And what exactly is it that you are doing here on slashdot?

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    3. Re:Real Life: much more vivid than a MMORPG by Neoncow · · Score: 2, Funny

      Flaming lonely people who have no lives. What a wonderful world.

    4. Re:Real Life: much more vivid than a MMORPG by terpl · · Score: 1

      The world might be virtual, but the friendships can be real. People invest emotionally in a ton of things that other people find silly. Sitting on a high horse and judging what other people find meaningful just makes you look like an ass.

    5. Re:Real Life: much more vivid than a MMORPG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm perfectly happy with your mom's basement, too...if ya know what I mean.

  10. sekai no hate by blueZhift · · Score: 1

    It was the end of the world, sekai no hate. (Sorry, just finished the finale of Revolutionary Girl Utena.)

    Really rather touching. While the world was virtual, the relationships were not. If reality really is mostly what's in your head, then the end of AC2 really was the end of a world. Hmmm, there's gotta be a good story in there somewhere.

  11. more games by usernamehaha · · Score: 1

    well it might be on http://www.shareware54.com/category.asp?category=G ames beside they have 10% discount on software if you use there buy now link

  12. AC2 by Konster · · Score: 1

    The four remaining subscribers will now have to find something else to do.

    In other news, Anarchy Online today announced that it received a glut of new subscribers after the closure of Asheron's Call 2.

  13. Another site's coverage by Teh+Suq · · Score: 3, Informative
    More coverage of the end of Asheron's Call 2 here:

    The End Begins (And Ends)

  14. Jesus... Just Jesus... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get a fucking life!

  15. It really can be a sad moment by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Insightful
    When the time comes to say goodbye to a MMORPG it is more then just uninstalling a single player RPG. Unless the bugs were to bad you will usually have spend some good time with other players getting to know a land.

    Most single player games never have this. In fact if in a single player RPG you would still visit the beginner level merchant it would probably be considered a bad thing. Yet in MMORPG land you can really get to know your neighbourhood.

    Leaving it can really create a sense of homesickness, a sense of something lost. Of course you know that the game is nothing more then a IRC with pretty pictures and yet it is more.

    No MMORPG is any good if it were judged as a single player experience. Combat is simplistic and repetitive with moronic AI. Guild wars is about the only game were I seen proper interaction between AI enemies in that they really know how to use their healers. Even then simple pathfinding is a joke compared to "real" games.

    The quests/story are a pale shadow of a single player RPG.

    So the only "pull" left is either the level up OR the sense of community.

    That community is more then simply chatting online. The MMORPG gives you a common goal to achieve. Chat for days on a IRC channel and you will maybe have made some friends. Play a MMORPG for days and you will have gone to hell and back shared victory and defeat, died and achieved vengeance. You will in fact have done more then most people can do in real live.

    Leaving all that can cause a twinge or two. Or perhaps it is just the realisation that with the money you spend you could have bought several single player games.

    Those who never played a MMORPG or do not become involved with other players will not understand and that is good. There is a reason we call it Evercrack.

    I fear the day that an MMORPG will arrive that does not have horrid framerates and game breaking bugs. When someone invents a MMORPG that is bug free, glitch free, cheat free, lag free and has game play that would not be out of place in the best single player games that is the day I will sign up to be a battery in the matrix. Just plug me in and call me SmallFurryCreature Eater of Rats.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:It really can be a sad moment by garylian · · Score: 1

      Very well stated.

      I played EQ for nearly 5 years. I only left after my frustration level with Sony started to outweigh the pleasure I got from playing the game. And, since folks were starting to leave in anticipation of both WoW and EQ2, it was time to go.

      While game developers can make a great game, the social aspect often keeps you around for a long time beyond where you would have stayed if it was a single player game. Who would have kept playing EQ after reaching Time (not that I did) and killed all the things you wanted to kill, if you didn't want to hang with your virtual friends?

      Turbine will be fine, as they are working on DDO. I'm in the beta, and while not breaking my NDA, I can say that the game is group imperative. You just don't solo past the newbie area.

      AC was a bad game design from the beginning, especially with the pyramid XP scheme built it. Designing Amway into a MMO isn't too bright. That, and ranged (melee and magic) attacks were overpowered. Too many one-shot kills with no damage taken for ranged players. Add to that, it was originally released as M$, and all the M$ haters avoided it like the plague.

      I never played AC2, but from what I read, it just had too many problems, and too many AC players had such a bad taste in their mouths (myself included) that they bypassed it entirely.

      Games fade out over the years. One of my EQ/WoW buddies took up the free 21 day offer from Sony, and logged into our old server. It was a ghost town. Hardly any toons in the bazaar, or anywhere else.

  16. What the hell is GameTab? by asphole · · Score: 1

    and why does it bring the Kotaku link up inside the GameTab window? Lame.

    1. Re:What the hell is GameTab? by Winterblink · · Score: 1

      It's like Gamerankings.com, basically lists combined ratings of other reviews out there and lets you click off to read any of them. And, like Gamerankings, puts a dumb bar at the top of the screen to remind you what site you really came from. The submitter didn't bother to just cut and paste the URL to the article itself.

      --
      "I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
      -Hoban Washburn
  17. Actually Turbine did the players even worse by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    the released an expansion last year only to follow it with an annoucement a few months later they were closing down the game.

    AC2 was dead from launch. It was a game for developers, lauding themselves, and ignoring the players. It deserved to die and it did.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  18. The only level 150 to ever play the game... by SpiritOfGrandeur · · Score: 1

    I knew at the time when I was all of a sudden catapulted to level 150 (Due to a bug in the game) that I would be the one and only player to ever hit that level. My name was Serla on the PvP server. And what a day it was when I hit that level. Every one on the server tried ganging up and killing me. Which was probably more eventful then this lame ending!

    1. Re:The only level 150 to ever play the game... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      I recall the evening the Necros in EQ could cast multiple pets. Wasn't on that evening, but read about it on the boards later. Unlike detrimental (to the player), very severe bugs, which they'd let languish for a week (the next scheduled update) they ripped the servers back down to fix it immediately.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  19. So how about a class action suit? by afabbro · · Score: 1

    I don't play AC2, but I wonder if the people who paid $60 retail can file a class action suit against Turbine now...after all, they paid for the box and expected the service and now the publisher has decided it doesn't want to provide the service any more, so perhaps they should get their $60 back.

    --
    Advice: on VPS providers
    1. Re:So how about a class action suit? by Delphiki · · Score: 2, Insightful
      So, if in 2075, World of Warcraft shuts down, the ten surviving people who still play it and don't like the new fangled "beam images directly into your brain interface" of World of Warcraft XII can sue Blizzard? Nowhere on the box of any MMORPG I've seen does it guarantee the service will be available for all eternity, and no thinking person would expect it to be available for all eternity. It's simply not possible.

      If I had to pay an installation fee to my cable company, and then they went out of business, could I sue them, too? If I bought a copy of Mac OS in the eighties but now I can't purchase hardware to run it on, can I sue Apple?

      Any lawsuit by people who played AC2 and want their $60 back would get laughed out of the courts, unless maybe they bought the game new after it was shut down.

      --

      Feel free to mod me "-1 - Angry Jerk".

    2. Re:So how about a class action suit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you.

      Not a single person who purchased the game was forced into buying it. There was a monthly fee which each player had to pay, also voluntarily. Yeah it sucks that you paid for the game, for several months of service, etc. and then they shut down the game, but you paid for what you got - entertainment. If you paid in advance for 10 years of play, but only got 3, yeah, you should be pissed.

    3. Re:So how about a class action suit? by garylian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What possible justification do they have for a class action suit? They paid 60 bucks, but played the game starting in 2002 if they got in at the start, and bought an update in Feb. of 2005. They paid a monthly fee for patches and server uptime, which they are no longer having to pay now that the game is done.

      So, 60 or so bucks for a little over 3 years of playing, plus monthly maintenance fees. And more than half the players left prior to the cancelling of the game, because they felt it wasn't worth it. Did they scream for a refund?

      Face the facts. There weren't enough players actively subscribing to make it cost effective to keep the game live. End of story.

      What is it with /.'ers and their love of crying for a class action suit? I've seen some dumb requests for them, but this one may take the cake. We have enough stupid litigation going on here in the U.S. without this idiocy joining it.

    4. Re:So how about a class action suit? by afabbro · · Score: 1
      In my mind, this illustrates what's wrong with the MMORPG idea - why should I pay for the box, when I am also paying $X a month for the service? Seems to me that game publishers are trying to have it both way. The box without the service is useless...but if the service goes away, why did I pay for the box?

      I think the industry should go to a monthly service charge only. The box is free downloadable, or sold for cost of media.

      Of course, they don't because they can get away with it. A suit might change their minds.

      --
      Advice: on VPS providers
    5. Re:So how about a class action suit? by garylian · · Score: 1

      Um... You might want to think about that again.

      When you buy the box, you are paying for the initial development of the game. If it is an expansion, you are paying for the initial development of that expansion's content.

      You pay a monthly fee for server uptime, minor content adding patches, bug fixes/balancing, and in-game customer service.

      Oh, wait... You just wanted to say the words "class action suit", right? lol

    6. Re:So how about a class action suit? by Delphiki · · Score: 1
      I think they should switch to that model because it means people like me would be more likely to play their game. I'd try a lot more MMORPGs if not for the $50 fee.

      But in response to your reasoning, that's like saying cell phone companies should be forced to give you a cell phone since they're usually locked to a specific service. Or TiVo should be forced to give you the box if they want to also charge a subscription fee.

      The fee was so that you had what you needed to run the service. Like buying a cell phone.

      --

      Feel free to mod me "-1 - Angry Jerk".

    7. Re:So how about a class action suit? by Salamande · · Score: 1

      A lot of the time, you can get a "free" cell phone or Tivo box with a service agreement. It's not mandatory, of course, but it's a popular thing for companies to do for just the reasons you state. Paying just start up fees is a lot more attractive than paying $150 or so for a phone up front. Just saying.

  20. Re:Game box ... Until Uru by Dillenger69 · · Score: 0

    swear, there should be a law that if a MMORPG closes its servers, they open the source to the playerbase so people can create and host their own servers off of it.

    Cyan/Ubisoft did this with Their online Myst debacle last year.
    They created installable binaries and a DB install to create a sigle box server version of Uru onilne and called it Until Uru.
    The server software is freely available and you may still be able to obtain a login.
    Cyan gave the go-ahead to work on player created content as long as people steer clear of their IP and stay away from certian story lines they might want to use in the future.

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    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  21. So then be skeptical about D&D online by philipkd · · Score: 1

    Turbine is behind the upcoming D&D online.

    The company that backs an MMO seriously makes a difference. I now lump Turbine into the same camp as Sony (SOE). They are both companies that don't take their userbases seriously.

    SOE screwed the Star Wars Glaxies (SWG) fanbase by pretty much cutting out half of the things that made SWG fun, and hardly giving the existing base warning.

    The executives that run these companies are out of touch with the gamers that play their games. At the very least with Asheron's Call 2, they should allow someone else to run the servers. People invest their lives into these games. If you spend more than 80% of your waking hours, for example, playing these games, then you take them just as seriously as you do your existence in the real world. These people will work an entire month just to get a pair of rare, magical shoes. And those shoes are just as important to them as they are to someone who saved up to put a downpayment on a new car.

    Turbine is behind a new game, Dungeons and Dragons Online. So my reaction when reading this article is I will vote with my dollar, and avoid companies that treat their userbases like crap.

    1. Re:So then be skeptical about D&D online by garylian · · Score: 1

      I'm in the beta, and I don't see any of the AC or AC2 problems cropping up.

      Yeah, they are having beta bugs, and they are working on them. So far, though, they seem pretty responsive to most issues. They read their forums. They reply with more information than Blizzard often would give for WoW.

      Since DDO is going to offer zero PvP, and classes are sticking very true to the 3.5 ruleset, the framework is already in place.

      I don't see DDO having EQ like subscriptions, but it will be respectable enough to keep it online for a few years. It's biggest drawback will be repetition, much like CoH/V.

    2. Re:So then be skeptical about D&D online by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      That plus the fact the rules melted until they resembled other MMORPGs out there. The D&D you play now isn't the same game played by those of use who played it with pencil and paper in the '70's. I'm not predicting too much from it.

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      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    3. Re:So then be skeptical about D&D online by ahsile · · Score: 1

      Ok, so I don't play first edition... but I also don't play that tripe known as 3e or 3.5 or whatever you wanna call it.

      We play AD&D 2E, and we love it. Sure we play with house rules, but I enjoy it much more than the new and extremely rigid rules. We actually have imagination when we play, not extremely nimble fingers to look up all the rules we need, or handle our miniatures.

      WFRP (Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay) also rules.