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Switching to Windows, Not as Easy as You Think

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the turnabout-is-fair-play dept.

rchapman writes "Mad Penguin writer Simon Gerber has published an amusing review of Windows XP as seen from a Linux users point of view. He really makes you feel like you are trying to use Windows for the first time after exclusively using Linux. The article covers everything from the hideous installer and its lack of partitioning/formatting capabilities to the utter wasteland that is the Windows desktop, devoid of useful applications and everything in between. A fun read."

27 of 803 comments (clear)

  1. Reminds me of another article by kestasjk · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/05/18/20 33216&from=rss Not sure if the author of the new one got the idea from this.

    --
    // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
  2. Ellen Fleiss by Slashdiddly · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was typing one day, at work. Just typing, tapping the hours merrily away, and suddenly, with no warning whatsoever, my computer rebooted.

    Ellen Fleiss, is it you?

  3. Audience? by ilitirit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who is the intended audience? Casual or Power-users? I doubt my Gran would be particularly interested in MBR's and partitions and what not...

  4. Switch to Windows in one easy step by kalbzayn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    All you have to do to switch to Windows is buy a new PC. They all come with it installed out of the box. They also come with all the software most people need either already installed or available to buy at your local Best Buy/Circuit City. I set up my non-tech parents like this over a year ago and have only had to help them twice when my dad accidentally told his firewall not to allow his browser to connect to the internet.

    The only support I've had to do to my own computer is fix the bootloader everytime Ubuntu decides to override it and I forget to back it up. Sometimes I think we spend a little too much time nit picking things and tweaking systems to get that extra percent performance increase.

    Time for some coffee.

  5. So much innaccuracy... by Chicane-UK · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The article covers everything from the hideous installer and it's lack of partitioning/formatting capabilities to the utter wasteland that is the Windows desktop, devoid of useful applications and everything in between.

    Someone has already mentioned the fact that you CAN partition and format drives in the installer, so thats wrong for a start.

    And what is Microsoft supposed to do about applications? If it bundled Microsoft Office in with Windows, the anti-competition people would be on their backs the day it hit the shelves. They have no choice but keep the OS relatively free of apps - too many partners they don't want to piss off and the anti-competition people just waiting with multi-million dollar fines! Look at the shit they are having to go through here in Europe with Windows Media Player for example!

    --
    "Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
    1. Re:So much innaccuracy... by Decaff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And what is Microsoft supposed to do about applications? If it bundled Microsoft Office in with Windows, the anti-competition people would be on their backs the day it hit the shelves. They have no choice but keep the OS relatively free of apps - too many partners they don't want to piss off and the anti-competition people just waiting with multi-million dollar fines! Look at the shit they are having to go through here in Europe with Windows Media Player for example!

      They could do what they used to do years ago - allow the bundling of MS applications and alternatives on the same PC - perhaps as CDs. They you could chose MS Works or Corel Office or Open Office...

  6. Devoid of useful applications by norfolkboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "devoid of useful applications"

    You are moaning that Windows is by default "devoid of useful applications ".

    Of course it is! Remember the fiasco any time Microsoft try bundling anything useful with Windows? It ends up in an anti-trust trial! Of COURSE Microsoft aren't going to bundle anything useful with Windows any more.

    I thoguht that was what a Linux user would want? Choice of their own applications, not MS's choice.

    1. Re:Devoid of useful applications by m50d · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, every time MS tries to bundle something of their own, and not include competitors, then we have an anti-trust trial. If MS bundled IE, Netscape and Opera with their OS, equivalent to what most linux distros do, there would be no problems. If they bundled WMP, realplayer and winamp - again equivalent to your typical linux distro - there would be no problems. It's when they try and give you just their product that the problems arise.

      --
      I am trolling
    2. Re:Devoid of useful applications by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Remember the fiasco any time Microsoft try bundling anything useful with Windows? It ends up in an anti-trust trial!

      That's because MS doesn't just bundle. They bundle, then weld it to the OS, encase it in lucite so you can't get at it, and surround it with landmines to keep all but the most determined de-installer away.

      I like having more apps than I could ever need included in a Linux distro. However, I would object strenuously Xorg and a window manager was fused into the kernel and made intrinsically dependant on firefox. That's the key difference. Any componant of any Linux distro can be replaced at will. When available, the distro will include several alternatives for the same basic functionality.

    3. Re:Devoid of useful applications by Politburo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is really a silly idea. Not just because of the general idea, but because of the practicalities. If you bundle (let's say) Real, QT and Winamp.. Where's the line? Every shmuck who's written a media player is going to want it bundled. So do you have to include JoeMedia also? What about when you have too many apps bundled and want to take a few out? Those vendors are going to howl to no end. What about quality? What if Real delivers a buggy adware piece of shit to be bundled?

      It's never 'equivalent to what Linux does' because there is no Linux corporation that is trying to have everyone use their browser, media player, etc.

  7. XP is a bit older by MancunianMaskMan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I had a similar experience, and it cost me days to install XP on a new computer wher Ubuntu installed cleanly. That was about 6 months ago, and the Ubuntu disks had been fresh from my letterbox (fee & all!) whereas my "spare" copy of XP was already a few moons old. So maybe that's why it stymed an old geek like me about SATA drives. Still haven't got Internet going on this "XP" thing, since it can't find network card drivers (not sure I want to). Maybe the M$ release cycle is just uselessly slow for today's hardware market?

    1. Re:XP is a bit older by rbochan · · Score: 4, Funny

      ...Maybe the M$ release cycle is just uselessly slow for today's hardware market?

      Yes, it's a pretty sad indication of Microsoft's release cycle when Debian actually gets out 2 new Stable distros (Woody, Sarge) within the time period of Microsoft WindowsXP and LonghH^H^H^Vista.

      --
      ...Rob
      The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
  8. RTFA by donscarletti · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just because a summary says something doesn't mean that the article says the same thing. The article acknowledges the presence of a partition tool but bemoans the limited features of the tool.

    --
    When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    1. Re:RTFA by Southpaw018 · · Score: 4, Informative

      One of the failures of the Linux community is recognizing the fact that most users don't want and don't care about such a tool. If you want full Linux-installer-style partition and format control over a Windows install, it's there, and it's not that hard to find.

      For most users, a partition is something that's between them and the guy in the next cubicle. They don't want to know what a computer partition is, they don't care, and they don't even want to see it - not even "Do you want the computer to partition for you?"
      Forcing such a thing on them is annoying at best, and for some especially inexperienced computer users, it can actually be scary. One of the things I had to get used to on the job was two of my users (out of 35) who would call me at the slightest hiccup because they simply didn't want to deal with anything at all out of the ordinary. That's my job, they'd say.

      --
      ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
    2. Re:RTFA by radarsat1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hmm so, where do I backup my data before formatting when this data is in the same partition as the system and the apps...

      for what it's worth, most computers come with "restore" disks that wipe the whole fucking drive no matter how the partitions are set up. I always thought THAT was idiotic, too.

    3. Re:RTFA by l3v1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you want full Linux-installer-style partition and format control over a Windows install, it's there, and it's not that hard to find.

      I call BS, and big time. Let's see some crapness in the windows installer:
      - no sata or raid support (wait, see next line),
      - you can have sata and other "exotic" hw support with third party drivers on a floppy disk, and nothing else (just think of people like myself who doesn't even buy or have fdd for about 6 years now), which leads to
      - you can't use, mount, read, ... no media under the installer, can't use drivers from another optical drive, external drive, network share, nfs, and I could just go on
      - you have only two choices for partition format, fatxx or ntfs; besides the goal for monopoly, how can one explain the lack of native support for other, high quality journaling filesystems
      - no support for defining separate partitions for swap or user homes (that is Documents and Settings) - I know you can make these steps after a finished install, but why not during install ?
      - network will be about the last things activated during the install process and still no use since you don't have no other terminals or guis or anything, you can't do anything but wait
      - the installer gives you about 0 amount of information about the status of the install, in a lucky case you can see some filenames of dlls being copied, other than that nothing but some crappy images and blinking pixels

      Don't get me wrong (I suppose you already did), I'm not saying the way the installer works is bad for the average user, I'm saying you have no other option, which is bad. Sometimes very bad.

      --
      I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
  9. For the sarcasticly impaired. by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Before it goes to far out of hand, where the slashdot hidden windows expert points out workarounds for his problems. This is how people write about Linux in Windows Rags. They go by their first impression and give there ratings from a 1 Day Point of View. When you move to a dramatically different system Windows, Mac, Linux/Unix, VMS... You find that things are not easy anymore. You they are no longer logically laid out Nothing works anymore and all your comfort apps are no longer there. You need time to think like the designers of the os, knowing the ls is short for list, or Dir sands for directory, or My Computer allows you view your mounted network drives. If you know only windows Other OS's feel weird and wrong the same if you know only an other OS. I say we should stop with these rags from peoples first impression and go with a better one showing the differences and explaining their strong and week points and not give judgement of what is better.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  10. Re:Flawed. by Decaff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Key statement: I set up Linux workstations
      Let your novice users try to set up and use both and see which is more successful.

    Answer: Linux. The Ubuntu install is far simpler than Windows, and was the first install of any OS on PC hardware I have ever seen that needed no prompting or additional drivers to deal with hardware.

    Give a beginner a Windows XP CD and an Ubuntu CD and I have no doubts they would find Ubuntu easier to install in most cases.

  11. Ever heard of sarcasm? by debest · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article was a send-up of all the "trying out Linux" articles that Windows power users have been writing for the past several years. You get to hear what difficulty they have getting used to a different way of doing things, but of course they call if a "problem" instead.

    Same here, except in reverse, and with tongue planted firmly in cheek. The article is showing how asinine it is to flame an OS when you don't know what the hell you are doing, and have no experience with it.

    You DID notice the "It's funny, laugh!" icon at the top of the /. post?

    --
    Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
  12. Re:Flawed. by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How about doing a review from the perspective of someone who has never used a computer before - then lets see which one is easier to use (hint: the answer will be Windows XP by a massive margin).

    Does this include the install process, or are you comparing pre-installed XP versus DIY Linux?

    If a novice was forced to install both, I'd bet $100 that they'd get Linux installed properly first. A Linux install comes with most necessary drivers/software that you'll need. A novice Windows user would _never_ find the drivers needed for even an OEM system, like a Sony or HP, where all the drivers are centralized on one site, let alone searching out the drivers from each manufacturer. Linux installs are much easier than XP installs.

    Usage? Are you talking about Gentoo versus XP? I'd suggest pre-installed SuSE versus pre-installed XP.

    SuSE? Comes with manuals, both electronic and dead tree.
    SuSE? Comes with all productivie software, documented in the manuals! Need to write a text document? Look up "word processing" in the SuSE manual. It'll tell you what app to use, show screenshots of the app, and give you a basic rundown of its usage, with pointers to a section in the electronic help system that will give you indepth support and tutorials, as well as e-mail/phone support.

    What will XP do if you look up "Word Processing" in that 15 page piece of shit 'starter guide' it comes with?

    The only place that XP is at all easier is finding software for it. Linux software is easier to install (RPM are very convienient, klik:// is even easier, and the GUI package managers are drop dead easy, especially Mandriva's URPMI GUI and SuSE's YaST GUI), and easier to remove. Linux systems require no habitual maintenance. You don't have to worry about anti-virus or anti-spyware, and even if you did worry about it, you could simply install the anti-virus software that comes with your distribution, using the distributions own package manager. Don't believe me? SuSE's YaST has "ClamAV", as well as several other anti-virus packages included.

    If you can show me Windows software that installs as easily as this: http://amavis-ng.klik.atekon.de/ , I'll be mighty impressed. And commercial vendors are picking it up, too. For example, klik://nero will install the latest version of Nero Burning Rom on your Linux system, and run it. From one file. One click install->run. No setting, no fuss, no random files draped all over your system.

    The only place linux still really lags behind is game avaliablility. Between alsa, SDL, and OpenGL, there's a pretty comprehensive gaming environment on linux, but its taking manufacturers some time to get caught up. iD and Epic are doing pretty well, and Transgaming's doing some neat things with DirectX9 Wine, but gaming on Linux just isn't all that there yet, even though I do manage to keep myself enterained.

    It disappoints me that I can't play whatever games I want, but I keep myself busy with Secondlife, EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Doom 3, the Unreal series, Civilization IV, and various other distractions.

    --
    WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
  13. Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt by jacksonj04 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I had some randomly bad RAM not long ago, and both Windows and Linux failed with it at totally unexpected times. It may be an application crash, or the whole system may go down hard. The day when software can ignore dodgy hardware is still a long way off, although it is getting better at spotting it (SMART for HDDs is wonderful, saved my data twice by warning my prior to a disk crash)

    --
    How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
  14. Re:Not Easy?! by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Funny

    Switching from Linux to Windows is like switching from girlfriend to wife.

    Nah, that's bullshit. Windows goes down on me all the time.

    --
    "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
  15. Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt by CoderBob · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Windows automatic updates on

    That might be the problem. I've seen quite a few instances where auto-updates applied an update that then completely takes a system down. I've seen systems come up but fail to ever get past a login screen. Hell, I've watched servers that were updated manually get severely messed up and cause downtime thanks to a Windows "Update".

    Long story short- Automatic updates are just asking for trouble. I use auto-download, but manual install. At least that way I know if I'm getting a stupid Windows Driver update, a system update, or some other piece of junk update, and if the system bails on me I have a baseline to know if it was from an update or not.

  16. The site died, so I didn't RTFA by l33tlamer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Switching to Windows: Intended for the average computer user:
    1) Get a blank Hard Disk or create a new partition. Use partition magic or get a friend to do it
    2) Boot the windows CD and install
    3) Install firewall software
    4) Get updates from Microsoft or a friend
    5) Install other programs

    Its not that hard. I run a tri-boot system at home, with Windows-Work, Windows-Gaming and Linux. If I had to switch over from Windows to Linux, the main issues is not just the changes in interface, configuration style (init files etc), but finding replacement programs for things I am using under Windows. Like all my games, EndNote, Wakan/KanjiQuick(Japanese Writing), RatDVD and CDisplay for my manga viewing. Sure, there are similar tools available under Linux, but some features are missing, especially for rare programs like CDisplay. One can see that this reverse situation is arguably worst than going from Linux --> Windows. Sure, you may have to pay some money to get the software you need, but, at least they are available.

    It all comes down to a popular OS always having more variety of software, paid or open source, being developed for it. Personally, I think most computer users will end up dual-booting Windows (Vista) and Linux as time goes by, unless emulation becomes easy enough (for the average PC user) and fast enough to be a viable option.

    Now, let me go play som WoW, followed by a reboot to do some programming in Visual C then another reboot to start up my FTP server under Linux T_T

    --
    If I can do it, its probably not worth doing... probably
  17. Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt by dc29A · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You obviously don't support Windows systems for laymen.

    In every instance that I've replaced someone's Windows-only system with a dual-boot Windows/Linux install, they've thanked me.

    I didn't install Linux to computer illiterate family members but I did install Windows XP without any problems and they have no viruses, spyware, scumware, whatnot, to this day.

    I usually have a "nazi" checklist like this:
    - I am admin on the machine. No one else is. Yes it's a very severe limitation but it's worth gold. Before switching to these "nazi" rules, every month or two I had to clean up myriads of spywares and viruses. For the last 2 years, not one single virus, adware or spyware.
    - Only root has execute rights on iexplore.exe.
    - Firefox is default browser (thank $DEITY$ my mom's and sisters' banking sites support it well).
    - Thunderbird is default mail client.
    - OO.org installed (so far no complaints!)
    - Autoplay disabled.
    - SSH installed.
    - Router used as firewall.

    There are limitations like installing software, but I can connect remote to the machine and do maintenance and/or installs if needed. There was no antivirus nor antispyware installed, and for shits and giggles I did install one of each and no scumware was found on the machines.

    And referring to BSODs, I yet have to see Windows BSOD on about 7+ PCs in my family that wasn't related to some goddamn piece of shit ATI video driver. The only other BSOD I had on one of our PCs was because of a bad memory stick.

  18. Re:Useful applications by just_another_sean · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The other problem with this statement is the way everyone cries foul when Microsoft default installs an app with Windows

    sigh... As as been said here and many times before; it's not that Windows *ships* with these applications or even that they are *installed*. It's that you can't (easily) *remove* them in favor of something else.

    If I could a) easily install Windows and choose not to install IE, OE and WMP or b) easily remove these from an already installed PC then I would not care a bit about there existence.

    Despite how much I prefer Firefox and WinAmp, IE and WMP are still lurking around on my machine becasue it is a total PITA to remove them.

    --
    Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
  19. Full of crap... Really! - by voxel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This guy is full of it.

    I can do the EXACT same thing with LINUX. I can install it on some system and have all kinds of problems, simply because I don't know what I am doing.

    The fact of the matter is, BOTH operating systems are way to technically difficult to install. You have to "know" your environment the second even ONE little thing goes wrong, or else all hell breaks loose. You know how long it took me to find the damn "lspci" command? Sheesh, I was looking for an hour. I didn't even KNOW if Linux had this ability, after I realized it MIGHT, then I had to find the thing. At least with windows you can graphically navigate to the most obvious place.. "Control Panel"... makes sense.. "System", yeah!, "hardware" Oh yeah!!, "Devices" RIGHT ON!. Linux = ... Uhhh ... pci[enter] no... fuck it. Google where are you.

    I've installed Windows on at least two dozen machines, sure sometimes there is a problem, but nothing like this guy is talking about.

    There are some basic ideas and steps you need to know to fix "drivers" and such, once you know them its a snap. The same goes for linux.

    My point is Windows is NOT more difficult or screwed up than linux, and vice versa. They are both pretty horrible, but personally I give WINDOWS the hands down on being slightly less horrible as far as install-experience.

    - Voxel

    P.S. If the guy had been using the latest version of Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Disk), then his 200 gigabyte drive would of detected fine. When you use a linux distro, you do use the latest version don't you?

    --
    Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes