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Apple Responds to iTunes Spying Allegations

Posted by Zonk on from the harmless-fruit dept.

daveschroeder writes "According to MacWorld and BoingBoing: 'An Apple spokesman (reliable word has it that it was Steve Jobs himself) told MacWorld that Apple discards the personal information that the iTunes Ministore transmits to Apple while you use iTunes. [...] Apple tells us that the information is not actually being collected. The data sent is used to update the MiniStore and then discarded.' Apple also has a knowledge base article, which apparently was available the day iTunes 6.0.2 was introduced, explaining the MiniStore behavior and how to disable it: 'iTunes sends data about the song selected in your library to the iTunes Music Store to provide relevant recommendations. When the MiniStore is hidden, this data is not sent to the iTunes Music Store.'" The discussion about this topic was fast and furious yesterday.

11 of 385 comments (clear)

  1. In retrospect ... by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They could have avoided a lot of complaints if they had simply made a feature you could enable--not a feature you have to disable.

    If you install a piece of software and it starts to gathering information about you, it's called spyware even if there's some magic button combination or option that turns it off. Until it is turned off, it's spyware. I don't understand why the default setting isn't "off" but I guess that was Apple's decision and now they'll catch flack for it.

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    1. Re:In retrospect ... by non0score · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not arguing with you, but I think the idea is that most users will not enable it, and it will be difficult to perform the statistical (as clarified now) data collection and analysis that Apple does. So Apple opted to enable the automatic collection and hope that people will accept their explanation (which, I think, most people will accept). If need be, Apple has information readily-available on how to disable it for people who're really protective of their privacy (if they believe it's violated).

    2. Re:In retrospect ... by DaggertipX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You seem to miss the point of this statement. According to their claims, it is NOT gathering information about you. As in - the feature, even when it is on, is not doing any form of audit on your song collection.
      Ever google band information about a band you're listening to? That is more likely to capture data about you than this would.
      Now the next question is whether we trust Apple to be true to it's word about this. If they are lying about this, I would be more concerned with them lying, than with any data they would get from my collection.
      Personally, I don't have any reason to mistrust them at this point, as even the dark side of any conspiracy theories about this are fairly harmless, in my estimation.

  2. If the word was reliable... by StupidHelpDeskGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "reliable word has it that it was Steve Jobs himself" then why not cite the source?

  3. Re:This is just fud by MountainMan101 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The info it was supposedly spying on (what music you bought - it was used to make suggestions for other people) can be obtained perfectly easily by logging your purchases. For example Amazon offers me "suggested titles" and also uses my purchases to tell others "people who bought ... also bought ...", and they do that without using spyware to look at my bookshelf :-)

    Now if iTunes spied on the music you ripped then that might be news, but still not that important. I mean all they'll do is say "people who have Take That mp3s also buy other tasteless crap" etc.

    In short, yes, FUD.

  4. Re:Damage Control by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Informative

    Disclaimer: I am the article submitter.

    This is not "Damage Control". They did make it clear. The knowledge base article, available the day iTunes 6.0.2 was release, specifically said:

    iTunes sends data about the song selected in your library to the iTunes Music Store to provide relevant recommendations. When the MiniStore is hidden, this data is not sent to the iTunes Music Store.

    In addition, the day iTunes 6.0.2 was released, http://www.apple.com/itunes/ said:

    Discover Music

    Discover new music as you enjoy your collection or import new CDs -- with MiniStore.

    and http://www.apple.com/itunes/playlists/ said:

    Discover New Music

    Looking for some new tunes? Tap into the 2-million-song treasure chest of the iTunes Music Store through the new MiniStore. While you're browsing your own library or importing a new CD, MiniStore appears at the bottom of the iTunes window and shows you other albums from your favorite artists and artists like them. You can even see reviews of these albums plus what other listeners who like this artist purchased -- so you'll never be at a loss for new music to discover. When you're ready to go back to full-screen mode, click an icon and MiniStore tucks away, ready to pop up again later when you want to explore some more.

    and

    MiniStore

    Discover new music as you enjoy your collection or import new CDs with MiniStore -- right from your iTunes library.

    Further, the MiniStore actively changing as you click different tracks in iTunes might give a small hint that something is happening.

    Now, if you're saying that Apple should have had some kind of a dialog box come up when you first upgraded to and launched iTunes 6.0.2 explaining this and giving a clear option to simply opt to not use the new MiniStore, sure, I'll agree that would have likely been better. But Apple wasn't hiding this, and this isn't damage control, other than the fact that if enough blogs keep (incorrectly) asserting that Apple is "spying" on you, then it isn't long before some mainstream media picks the (incorrect) story up.

  5. Re:This is just fud by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Informative

    Oh yes it does. ANY song that you select, whether one you bought or one you ripped yourself will cause the mini-store to update with other products from the same artist.

    But so what? It can be a useful feature. If you don't want it, it's 1 click to turn it off. At which point, no more queries will be made of the Apple store for the artist name. Problem solved.

  6. stupid overeactions by illtron · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I always thought malware was MALicious.

    Spies work in secret. So does SPYware.

    iTunes is neither malware nor spyware, and the people who claim it is are paranoid jackasses.

    iTunes is doing this right in front of your face. I adamantly believe Apple should have included at least a dialog box at first launch of iTunes 6.02 informing users about the ministore, but I hardly consider it a breach of any sort of ethical barrier. The comparison to Gmail seem to be on the money... it's pretty much the same thing.

    As sort of an aside, it's not a terrible feature, and it's not intrusive or nagging when you don't want it hanging around. I would have definitely preferred that there was at least a notification though.

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  7. Re:not actually being collected by cmdr_beeftaco · · Score: 5, Funny
    If this music tracking information allows us to nab a single terrorist on US soil to is worth the relatively small price. An Apple spokesman (reliable word has it that it was Steve Jobs himself) said several terrorist cells were identify after a nefarious pattern of Dixie Chicks downloads was mined from their database.

    Folks post-9/11 America cannot expect due process or privacy. Danger lurks in the shadows and casting a blinding light down the alleys of American pop culture is the only way to find this enemy.

  8. Re:nothing new here by Daedala · · Score: 5, Informative

    The packets are being sent to a third party. This has been reported from the beginning. Omniture is not noted in the iTunes EULA the way, say, Gracenote CDDB is. Even if Apple isn't saving the information, what do we know about Omniture? We have no policy from them on this issue. Their business is collecting statistical information. They're a marketing firm.

    For that matter, why does the data need to go to a third party at all? How are they related to the iTMS?

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  9. Re:Only becuase you like apple. by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Sending information to Apple" implies that it's kept, tracked, logged, or aggregated somehow. I submit that it is not.

    Everything we can see from a technical standpoint and a logical standpoint indicates that there is nothing more happening than a custom WebObjects query to update the recommendations section of the MiniStore.

    Now, a bunch of people will keep saying "yeah, but how do we *know* they're not keeping it" or "you would be a fool if you thought they *weren't* keeping it, no matter what they say", but the fact is that iTunes is a highly customized, dynamic web browser - nothing more.

    Now, you might think ANY time any information is outbound from your computer, that it constitutes "sending" it to someone. I take issue with this, because, again, it implies it's being taken and kept. I think there is a difference, and that intent matters. Apple did not try to hide this, and while I agree it would have been a good idea to at least ask politely (and give a clear option to decline), I don't think there is any malicious intent here whatsoever.