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Education or Private Industry?
B Man asks: "I have been working in IT related jobs since 1994, and in that time, I have held the following positions: Security Administrator, Systems (Linux) Administrator, Network Engineer, Computer Consultant, and Project Manager. Almost all of my experience has been in medium sized businesses, but mow I have come to be in the situation of having two job offers that would be in totally different environments, and I am at a crossroads. My choices are: a position which allows me to work with cutting edge technologies, being the main technical contact to a Fortune 10 company; or a position in a higher education facility, in the Unix Administrator role. Both jobs have their good and bad points, but I would like to hear which one Slashdot readers recommend, and why."
A bigger paycheck or more freedom?
corporate = more money, oddly less red tape and bureaucracy, but less freedom to do more fun things. education = more freedom but more red tape and hassles when you want/need something due to federal monies and grants being limited. I would probably go with corporate given that you'll get to play with the latest and greatest while making good money at it, even though you'll have to probably wear a suit and tie. But that's just my 0.02
I haven't lost my mind. It's backed up on disk somewhere.
Dear Slashdot,
I really like steak, but this place I'm earing has the best chicken in the city. So, should I order the steak or the chicken?
Wait, someone wants to pay you to use cutting edge technology?
Is there some sort of catch I'm not getting, like you have to run only Windows?
If this signature is witty enough, maybe somebody will like me.
Both of the jobs base pay is about the same. The corporate position also has a incentive though. Just to fill in the details.
You don't tell us if you have, or want, a family, but that's really what this keys on.
The Fortune 10 company will shower you with money as long as you make choices that save them money- and might very well be worth your while, not to mention the great networking oportunities with such a position will lead you to other riches. But they will drop you in an instant if you're not making money, thus this option is only useful if you have no family and can move at the drop of a hat; or reduce your standard of living to put up with long layoffs.
The university will not pay as much- but you really have to fsck up to get fired from a university. They'll guarantee your income for the forseeable future, and probably also grant you a nice pension. In addition to that, there's always the fun of being the BOFH to a bunch of undergraduates- or play nasty games when that dweeb with the master's thesis exceeds his disk quota. Plus, it gives you the ultimate in with the female co-eds by being "helpful", which leads to dates, and eventually to the family, and the house bought on a 30 year mortgage guaranteed by your small but never-decreasing paycheck.
I know which one I'd take- but that's because I already made the mistake of having the family and mortgage and house and trying to pay for it with private industry jobs that never lasted more than 3 years. Lucky dog you- hopefully I'll be equally lucky soon as I'm currently contracting with the state and a developer's position in my office is opening up soon.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
If you're married, go for the private sector gig.
If you're not, get the job at the university and enjoy a year or two of empty casual sex with easily impressed college chicks. Then leave and take a corporate gig.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
1) Which one will you be happiest at based on your career path, goals and objectives, ability to achieve those goals, etc.?
2) Which one will your wife support you the most in?
If the answers between #1 and #2 differ..... well, you have a different question to post to AskSlashdot, don't you?
I am married, but no kids yet.
I guess I just didn't fill in near enough info.
Chris
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
If the pay is similar, go to the university. Less pressure, more security. Do what you want with less emphasis on the business case. But if the pay is a lot more, well we need to follow the trail of $$$.
I currently work for a private sector IT company, but we contract to a government agency. IMHO the public sector job would be much more stable, and you'll more than likely make more money over the lifespan of the job, with very little in the way of upsets. Plus you'll be on the inside, and likely have your own budget.
Your original query indicates that you'd be on contract with the fortune 10 company, which means every time you want to spend their money, you will have to justify it nine ways to sunday before they reach for the chequebook.
I've been in two big companies and I did not enjoy. Like you I was coming from mid-sized places and I thought: how great it must be not to have to worry about budgets. But I was devastated by the slow-paced, nonchalant ambiance. I had a hard time adjusting myself to the never ending meetings and memos and pointless policies, and at some point I told myself: it is just incredible how money is wasted here, no surprise if the only customers are other big companies with huge budgets.
In big companies the decisions are made by people who do not have to live with the direct consequences ("The budget is busted because of Microsoft licenses are too high? Bah, let's cut in the network redundancy, it never failed anyway"). Also in those companies you will actually hear things like "nobody got fired for choosing IBM (or Microsoft)", or "maybe Microsoft will go down someday, but if it happens we won't be alone to sink". No matter how reliable or cheap is a technology, it won't get management approval as long as it is not mainstream.
Yeah, those places have big budgets, impressive server rooms and the latest gizmo from HP or IBM so you can update the hot-swappable BIOS of the over-priced servers from a web interface. But very quickly you will get bored with such toys, especially when you are forbidden to use Firefox instead of IE on your workstation, or when you find out that it takes two months to have a DNS record fixed (about which you have daily complaints from your customers).
In big companies you will find plenty of people with no skills because it's easy to hide somewhere in the corporate tree. And the odds that one of those people ends up being your boss are high, in which case not only you must tolerate his stupid decisions, but you must also stay low-profile, because if he starts to feel threatened by you he will play all his sleazy cards to get you out.
By contrast in universities you have more room for initiative, plus you get all the side benefits, like free education, cool environment, and very interesting resources from other institutions. You'll get less budget, you might have to kiss some old, hairy ass in wine & cheese events, but you'll also work in a place where the most bright people of the country are coming everyday to teach, learn or research. Some of them might get very annoying, but in the end you'll always find some geeks to have a good talk.
My advice: stay away from the big companies. Stick to mid-sized business, or go to this university. Expensive corporate toys are not gonna keep your mind from running, and at some point you'd have either to sell-out or to leave.
lucm, indeed.
All other things being equal, I'd pick the job with the educational institution. The reason I'd do this is because I think that the overall learning opportunities are better at the school. Sure, the Fortune 10 company will have more money to spend, but more money does not equal more learning. An educational institution is more likely to give you the time to do something rather than the money, so instead of just buying and installing a router, for example, you might get to build one out of some old parts and a copy of your favorite distro or flavor of BSD.
If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
I'd try the fortune 10 company, you could probably do more to benefit society working with the cutting edge tech... it seems backwards, but the tech field defies traditional logic.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
I'd vote Ed, but that's me. For one, all the higher-ed jobs I've worked in have been state jobs, which means the pay isn't great but nobody's exploiting me either. 40-hour workweeks and non-exemption from overtime means I get to have a personal life. Plus, I have a soft spot for academics and academia. I work for a community college now, but when I worked at a University I truly reveled in being surrounded with smart, serious people who liked what they were doing and kept up with the latest. (Here at a CC it's a little more bread-and-butter, but still OK.) Some schools also grant their employees a semesterly class benefit, which is awesome if you like that sort of thing.
I was embittered by working as an IT head in industry--granted, it was a growing regional business, not a top-10 company. Being named 'manager' without any concomitant power (to make me exempt from OT) and then forcing me to work 90-hour workweeks 200 miles from home was for the birds. I'm guessing your offered industry job would pay you well in exchange for your high responsibility, so it all comes down to personality. Me, I'm pretty laid back and so enjoy the educational environment. Good luck!
Dear Slashdot,
The new IPod nano comes in either black or white. Both colors have their good and bad points, but I would like to hear which one Slashdot readers recommend, and why.
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They call it "cutting edge" technology because you'll want to saw your leg off in order to escape from that trap. The higher-profile the client, the more eggregious the abuse that your management will apply to you. The "cutting edge" which you do not define is almost certainly a buzz-word powered hype engine. The real cutting edge technology will be seen in the academic research lab.
There you might actually contribute something to mankind, instead of just raping your fellow man for personal gratification.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
It sure sounded like it.
Someone hates these cans.
"Both jobs have their good and bad points, but I would like to hear which one Slashdot readers recommend, and why.""
I recommend you read "Zen and the art of Making a living by Laurence G. Boldt".
Oh I can hear the audience ask "well why didn't you give a pat answer?" Well I'll tell you why. One you're going to running into life-changing decisions for the rest of your life, and we're not going to be there. Two we don't have to live with the consequences of our advice. You do. The secret to getting through decisions like yours, isn't just asking for others advice, but that oldest of adages. Know thyself. The above helps you with that.*
*Don't let the zen thing overwelm you. He overdoes it a bit, but the book has solid advice if you work it from beginning to end.
I guess I didnt think this out at all.
The university job is working in a university funded business development extension office, the tuition is highly reduced for classes, and the pay is close to the same as the other job without any incentives, and is more like a start-up than a college setting.
cutting-edge is defined as pre-production networking, wireless, rfid, and related technologies. And it would be dealing directly with upper management of said fortune 10 company. The incentives offered could equal anywhere between 0-50+% of the salary on top of the salary itself.
The hardest part to decide comes down to the money, and the technology. Although I love networking, I just don't know how much of it will be opensource type software I will deal with. RFID for instance has very little Free/OSS, which I guess could be a good thing, as I could begin such projects with the resources available. Seeing as I have for much of my career dealt with networking/systems administration, I just don't know what else I could learn there. But the fact that its part of the university that would be helping startups get going, really makes it difficult, because then I have even more resources available for future opportunities. This is just an extremely hard thing to decide even with feedback from my wife and family.
If you take the sysadmin position at the University, you'll regret it. Every year,, a new crop of know-it-alls with a little skill at assembly are going to waltz in and think they own your machines because they paid megabux for their tuition. You'll be in a constant struggle to keep them in line when it comes to your computers, and they'll think it's just a big game.
Every year, your security will grow tighter and tighter, until your control and knowledge of your systems will surpass anything you could've imagined you'd know. But it'll all be driven by an adversarial student population who considers you to be a lower life form. Many of them will be smarter than you, and there'll come times when the only edge you have will be your encyclopedic experience.
You'll never be remembered by the students as anything but an interfering fascist, and your labyrinthine policies will frustrate the staff and administration.
If you thought you had to deal with a thankless population before, if you ever felt the need to pull out because nobody understood why you do the things you do, it'll be a thousand times worse, and magnified because people in a University environment think they're more open-minded than they really are.
Don't waste your time--go with the Fortune 10. You'll do better in the long run and be able to retire sooner.
Of course it is impossible to give you meaningful advice without knowing you, but I will say you need to consider who you are. If you are materialistic, ambitious and want the SUV in the driveway of a McMansion, then private enterprise is for you. If your wife has a strong career and you want to be the house husband, then perhaps the University life is for you.
FORTUNE 10 no question
one word: politics
I've worked at a medium-sized community college for about 6 years now in the positions of computer lab admin, computer technician and my current position of web applications developer/db admin.
I wonder which position you are already leaning toward? Your description of the private industry job is more thorough and interesting than the description of the education job.
It would seem that a good choice is something that provides more positive choices. The private industry job, as you describe it, would seem to provide more career choices from the skills you will develop and people you will meet than the education job. Also it would seem easier to get into an education job later with the skills you've developed in private industry rather than trying to get into a private industry job using 'cutting edge technologies' with skills that may languish while working at the university.
Which type of work will you enjoy more? Working with 'cutting edge technologies' sounds more fun than just being in a 'Unix Administrator role.' But you might also feel that assisting another's education (however indirectly) to be more fulfilling than simply pursuing the almighty dollar. I like developing web apps that helps students navigate the academic machinery a bit more easily.
Job security? You will find your job more secure in education than private industry. I've seen really incompetent people hold on to their jobs for decades in education. You have to _really_ screw up to get fired.
Benefits? You will find education offers a generous benefits package. Excellent health coverage, flexible vacations, and (usually) a great retirement program.
An oversimplification perhaps but which matters more to you at this time? Stability or ambition?
I'd recommend going for the private industry job. Sounds much more exciting. Plus, Private industry employment is less secure than education, take the risk now while you have no children. When you're ready to settle down and want a stable job, look at education again.
(If you're wondering what I'm doing, I will move to private industry after I finish my degree. I want to work on more exciting projects than I have gotten in education.)
I advise against doing either.
If you want a lower amount of pay and stress, and oportunities to expand your knowledge and horizons, then find a very cheap place to live, and start doing limited consulting for 20 hours a week, maybe running some small web sites and drop shippment sales sites on the side. Buy a nice double wide ( hardwood floors and etc., no need to live like an ascetic monk . . . this is America after all ) behind the local airport and start filling it with books and attending all the local linux and robot clubs.
If you want to make mad, mad, insane bling, and drive a Ferrari and hang out with stuffed Gucci suits and fake breasts adorned with Prada every night, snorting coke off the asses of prostitutes at night clubs on the weekends, or even just plenty enough cash to prove to your insecure metro-sexual self that you are white, don't work for the Fortune 10 -- start your own company. You can get richer driving your own startup into bankruptcy than you will by saving GM or IBM a billion dollars a month. It really doesn't matter what you do, whether it is pest control or pizza delivery or a furniture and mattress store on even some high-tech venture -- when you run things, there is no overhead to your productivity, instead, you ARE the overhead on other people's work.
America's (and the world's, because the world copies America) big institutions are all shot through with shit. Maybe the 1940's and 1950's were the age when big organizations did everything worth doing, but our generation has to deal with a world where the involvement of any organization of more than 500 people automatically means waste and mediocrity at best, outright fraud, theft, and murder at worst.
GM is going bankrupt. It's subsidiary Delphi has faked it's accounting to go fake-bankrupt in an attempt to use the bankruptcy court to forcefully dilute the shareholders ownership, a billion dollar highway robbery. The Communist Chinese (arguably the biggest Organization humanity has produced) own IBM. The Federal Government is bankrupt and getting more bankrupt, while run by the most fiscally conservitive and efficiency-whorshipping party America could dredge up. The old bastions of morality such as the Catholic church or the main-line protestants are shot through with child rapists, dollars-for-prayers con artists who target grandmas, money launderers and Bush apologists. Not that that matters anyway, the new religion of America is a vague feel-good self-improvement philosophy that is a evangelized with a multi-level marketing scheme, a cross between Dr. Phil and the Landmark Forum. Every major corporation is energetically seeking to welsh on the pension promises they made to the people who built them up, and demanding that their taxes to the government that will take over those obligations be cut. The Army Corp of Engineers can't keep a few levees around New Orleans patched up. The Army itself can't get battle armour from America to Iraq for two years, prefering instead to run on the gullibility of recruits and the ability to break promises to those already in. Our union leaders get paid $400,000 a year while their rank-and-file see their jobs sent to India by Corporate Cheiftains who even deny that shareholders own the company under a vague "nexus of contracts" theory. Our colleges are busy inflating grades to pass students who don't work or learn, whose tuitions are outrageously inflated because the government will subsidize them, tacking it on to the deficit the poor debt-ridden moron will have to help pay off when it all hits the fan. I haven't even touched on Enron/Worldcom/Tyco etc. Google and the great Californian High-Tech Hope ? They are busy helping the Communist firewall off the internet.
To join any group of more than 500 Americans, whether it is a church or company or university or political party, and you inviting yourself to be fleeced. You risk ending up with all your life investment in a pension fund that is being "re-invested in the company" that is going bankrupt, an
Do keep in mind now, more so than ever, that this is a question that most commonly will elicit responses from people who have a very strong opinion on the topic one way or the other. It would be unfortunate to find that you informed your decision in part on the fact that there were slightly more X responses than Y; together which would almost certainly hugely steam-roll over the silent majority of people who have no strong feeling one way or another on the issue.
I see you don't have kids yet, but a lot of universities offer free tuition for their employee's children.
So, twenty years from now, 2 kids, half a million worth of free tuition?
The latest Slashdot meme.
What it really comes down to is, what is important to you?
You don't mention whether the Higher Ed. position is state or not. If it's not, you're basically still working for a corporation: a private university is a factory for making students. Some factories work better than others, but they're all still factories.
(Disclaimer: I started working at a state university about a year ago.)
A state job, though, is different. In general, the pay is a lot lower. I'm making somewhere between 50% and 75% of what I could probably make in the corporate world. But... do consider the non-monetary benefits. My dentist's office claims I have the best dental insurance money can buy, and it costs me nothing. I get cheap health care. Getting auto and home-owners insurance through the state dropped those bills by something like 15% each. I can take classes for free, and I have excellent job security. (Working a state job as part of a union... sadly, people here are nearly impossible to fire.) On the down side, our department has no money, and IT is always the last group to get funding. We're supporting a couple of research labs with 20-year old macs, and at least one group with a 486 running who-knows-what. (there are, of course, other labs we support that have more money than they know what to do with... one of them just bought a 40U rack, completely stuffed with high-end machines, to do some serious number crunching.)
In my case, I decided that having a relatively low-stress job was more important than having a lot of cash. Sure, I can't buy myself a lot of new toys, but I'm making enough to live on and still have a few luxuries. And if you've managed to save up a fair amount while working prior jobs, and you invest it well, you shouldn't have to worry much.
On the other hand, there are substantial benefits to working in the corporate world: better toys at work, higher paychecks, and the possibility of getting your name on a major product come to mind. If the company is well run, it still might be fairly low stress, and most big companies seem to have fairly good health insurance. The downside? Probably less benefits, most likely higher stress, and a lot less job security.
So, despite all the advice we slashdot geeks can give you, you'll end up having to decide which is better for you. I can only tell you that I'd much rather be here in academia then out in the real world.
I've been in similar situations and currently work for a Fortune 500 company. My personal preference would be to work somewhere smaller, and since I don't know the scales of the places you're looking at, maybe this would make a difference.
I've worked for a number of start ups and worked with top-tier clients. It's stressful, but can be fun if you succeed. If you work for a large corporation engaging with a Fortune 10 company, you'll have resources, but probably a fair amount of bureaucracy. You'll also encounter power-jockeying, though how often is dependent on the corporate culture (but it pretty much exists across the board). If you work for a small place, you will likely have to plan exceptionally well, and prepare to work really long hours when your client changes their mind, because it WILL happen.
If you work in education, it can be the same. Generally, aside from specific projects, you won't likely have to do lots of extra support. You tend to have a slow time of the year in which you can solidify your systems and prepare for students hammering things. Of course, it depends on who's using your network. Since we're talking Unix Admin, I don't expect you to get the 11 pm calls from the Dean or Chancellor or whomever to fix their VPN, but it can happen depending on the architecture. As mentioned elsewhere, if it's public, salaries tend to be lower, but some of the benefits are great. It's also usually a bit higher on the bureaucracy, but less cutthroat. Private, well, salaries are better, but don't screw up or let some user screw your system. Large places have resources, smaller will let you have more control, usually.
I miss when I used to work in a small university setting. It was fun, I knew the faculty, and problems were easily resolved. The pay sucked, but the benefits were good. It was probably the happiest job I ever had. But as I'm married and we're paying off debts before we have kids, I have the stressful job for now.
Linux - because it doesn't leave that Steve Ballmer aftertaste.
In a company of that size you can make a lot of money. But what's the real reward? In the academic situation, even as an administrator, you have the opportunity to help the next generation of IT graduates. Often the practical assistance that you may have the opportunity to share with the students will be more valuable to them than any of the student/faculty interaction available to them. The opportunity to provide a select few students, as part of a work study program, with practical knowledge and skills will help them for the rest of their lives. That's something that you can't buy.
"Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
I'm looking at your question, and I find myself wondering if your educational institution might be the big one in Baltimore, MD. Since we're hiring someone with the title of "Unix Systems Administrator."
If so-- I'm an Undergrad here, and *I*, for one, think the people are nice. The undergrads won't give you too much trouble, as long as you're able to deal effectively with a series of special-case decisions. That's the important thing from our perspective; that the needs of our research are met, *over* the needs of system maintenance. MAintenance can wait-- honestly. And most students making that kind of request, will turn around and help you meet *your* deadlines, too-- at least that's been my experience. So if you think this sounds like a good situation, come join us. Otherwise, chicken out and go serve the corporatis.