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Anti-Gaming Legislation in Florida Moves Forward

Next Generation reports that another piece of anti-gaming legislation is moving forward in Floria. From the article: "Despite the failure of similar bills, Diaz de la Portilla believes SB492 provides the means to protect children. 'Left to their own devices, children often do not realize the harm they are causing themselves through the exposure to graphic sexual and violent content found in many of today's video games'" The bill has passed its first Senate hearing with a vote of 7 to 1. We've previously mentioned this legislation.

39 comments

  1. harm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    children often do not realize the harm they are causing themselves through the exposure to graphic sexual and violent content found in many of today's video games

    ADULTS do not realize the harm they are causing by failing to understand the adaptability of children.
    Perhaps those lawmakers should visit Denmark, which totally legalized pornography two generations ago, even with respect to public displays in street-level windows, and HASN'T sunk into the sea of depravity since.

  2. From the article by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1

    FTA
    ''Video games are protected speech under the First Amendment just like movies, books and television,'' said Sally Jefferson of the Entertainment Software Association.

    Well, Sally, guess what? 17 year olds cannot go to certain movies. 17 year olds cannot buy Playboy. 17 year olds cannot buy the X-Channel.

    So if that is your attempt to defend selling any title to any age group, you REALLY need to think through your arguement more.

    Like the above three examples... if the parent approves it, and buys it on behalf of the minor -- fine. But some titles are questionable enough that a parental decision should be required. That is all the law says.

    Now, let us hear the whiners tell us how this is an infringement on everyone's rights (it isn't). Let's hear how this means we are trying to be a nanny state (we have on many, many more issues than this over the last two plus centuries).

    Bottom line: No one's rights are being attacked. This is common sense.

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    1. Re:From the article by MindStalker · · Score: 1

      Well, Sally, guess what? 17 year olds cannot go to certain movies. 17 year olds cannot buy Playboy. 17 year olds cannot buy the X-Channel.

      Actually there is no law that restricts kids from R rated movies, it is a completly non govenment system that is enforced my the movie industry. Sadly the game industry is not willing to crack down on stores selling M games in the same way that the movie industry is. Even playboy can be legally sold to minors though some could possibly prosecute under indecency to minors statues, naked boobies arn't in themselves indecent. Hustler on the other hand... maybe :)

    2. Re:From the article by Kesch · · Score: 1

      17 year olds cannot go to certain movies. 17 year olds cannot buy Playboy. 17 year olds cannot buy the X-Channel.

      We are talking about video games, not porn. 17 year olds can see R movies, there are no govenrment laws prohbiting them. The theatres themselves control all the guidlines. In some R movies, you can get a lot of sexual content and violence.

      There is no law forbidding retailers to sell a violent movie to a minor that I know of (IANAL). Why does there need to be one forbidding violent video games? Many stores already refuse to sell M reated games to minors. There is no reason the government has to get its hands into video game regulation and waste my tax dollars on an already self policing idustry.

      (Sarcasm Enabled) Of course, who will think of the children?

      --
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    3. Re:From the article by sp3tt · · Score: 1

      If companies A, B, C ... Z agree to mark their games with symbols indicating which age groups they are suitable for (a benefit for the consumer, isn't it?), and retail stores agree not to sell games marked 17 to persons under 17 years of age, that's perfectly fine. It's called a free market in operation. You can sell what you want to whomever you want - or you can chose not to. The problem is when the coercion of government comes into the picture. If mommy doesn't want Billy to play GTA3, well, fine. But if the government uses coercion to achive the very same goal, it is wrong - it's a perfect example of a nanny state.
      Who decides what's OK for Billy to play, and what's not? And - if it is enforced by coercion - who says he's right? There can be no objective definition of unsuitable. What's perfectly acceptable according to one person can be offensive to other persons. It's up to the parents to decide, not the government.

      Fucking politicians trying to force their views onto everyone else.

    4. Re:From the article by crotherm · · Score: 1


      Bottom line: No one's rights are being attacked. This is common sense.

      No, what is common sense is that PARENTS should be responsible for what their kids play. Period. Laws to try and enforce parental responsibility are putrid on face value. Your examples of movies and magazines are industry enforced, not government enforced. Sheeesh, you must be new here to not have known that. If these types of laws are constitutional, (they're not), what is to stop the Government from passing laws about eating at MacDonalds. I bet that fast food is WAY more harmful to our children than video games.

      --
      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
    5. Re:From the article by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      "Well, Sally, guess what? 17 year olds cannot go to certain movies. 17 year olds cannot buy Playboy. 17 year olds cannot buy the X-Channel."

      You can't make claims like these without backing them up. Go look through your state's statutes and find out exactly where it is illegal to give a minor any of the content you just listed.

      99.9% of the time, what you just listed is nothing more than store or theater policy, not law. The other 0.1% gets consistently struck down as unconstitutional. The only reason nobody hears about "saving the children" from any of them to the same degree as we hear it about video games is that all those other media forms are decades older and the battles have already been fought (and lost).

    6. Re:From the article by Unordained · · Score: 1

      So ... if we've already taken away *some* rights, then it's okay to continue taking away similar rights, and it's not okay for anyone to ever try to draw a line in the sand and say "no more"? You can't justify one oppression by another.

    7. Re:From the article by catahoula10 · · Score: 1

      "You can't justify one oppression by another."

      I agree.

      Whats needed here is for the video game industry (and media as a whole)to police itself and show some restraint. Having Freedom of Speech does not mean having a right to permissive speech. The freedom of speech protections in the constitution can only work properly when they are grounded with some type of morial rule system that comes from the individual. Remove the morial value system and free speech becomes nothing more then permissive speech to the point that it infringes on others. When that happens, we get laws restricting activity; Then those laws are used as president to restrict more activity, and before ya know it we have no more freedom of speech.

      --
      This has been another valuable and informative opinion from:
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    8. Re:From the article by Unordained · · Score: 1

      I appreciate that you agree with me, but I'm going to have to disagree with you.

      Do you really have a freedom if you can't make use of it without it being taken away? Asking anyone to restrain themselves is pointless unless there's the force of law behind it, and the threat that the freedom they will have excercised will be taken away from them -- at which point it's no freedom at all.

      As to morals, again, I must disagree. Laws have basis in force, not in morals and ethics. We do not rely on public shame nor personal contrition as deterrents; we use the threat of force, of punishment. The moral reasons behind our laws, if there are any, are separated from our actual laws by the democratic process. We enact laws on the basis of majority vote, and we do not include in the law the reasoning(s) that lead to those votes. At that point, the moral beliefs of those who voted on the laws fail to be translated into the laws themselves, which are purely objects of force -- primitive, violent devices with which we organize our society.

      Our culture is stagnating between treating the symptom and the cause. We know that treating the cause is better than the symptom; we like the idea of prevention. But the easiest and most common path so far has involved blaming, punishing, and regulating the makers of devices and media which are thought to enable or induce criminal acts. We no longer believe in free will. A child can't help but kill people if he has access to a gun, if he plays a violent video game, if he watches an R-rated movie. It wasn't so long ago that governments believed in banning books thought to contain 'dangerous' ideas -- ideas that would inevitably lead people to take actions those governments disagreed with -- but you don't hear much about that these days. Now it's movies and games. (Seen any ESRB-like ratings on books recently?)

      What happened to simply telling parents that they're responsible, until the age of 18, for their childrens' actions, and that it's up to them to do whatever's in their power to keep those kids out of trouble, including educating them on what is or isn't appropriate, regardless of what books, movies, or games may imply? If you don't want your kids to buy violent games, don't give them money. They don't need it. If you want to know whether a game is violent or not, don't ask the government to do your research for you. Pay private entities to do that.

    9. Re:From the article by catahoula10 · · Score: 1

      Do you really have a freedom if you can't make use of it without it being taken away?

      Sure ya do.
      Because there is a distinct difference between freedoms and rights. I have the freedom to steel an automobile, but not the right to do so.
      My moral values tell me that steeling is wrong. So I refrain from steeling a car. But since we have people that do not have the same moral value about steeling that I have, we need laws against steeling cars. Likewise, the media industry, which includes game makers, has the freedom to make the most violent games or movies they can possibly image. But this does not give them the right to do. So if they respect the freedom they have to make games, they should use some type of internal restraint system that tells them violence can be taken to far considering their target audience
      If they oppose self-limits and common sense practices, then laws will are needed to limit the violence in games just like laws were needed to limit the amount of car theft.

      IOW, to put it simply, having the freedom to do something does not give the right to do something. Some type of value system has to be used in conjunction with freedom or laws will be needed .

      You can loose your freedoms via laws if you abuse your freedoms.

      What happened to simply telling parents that they're responsible...

      Nothing. Parents should indeed be responsible for their children and for their children actions. However, times have changed quite a bit just in the last 20 years. Children now have access to, television programming, games, books, porno, magazine, drugs and an entire gamete of information that was simply not readily available to them in the past. So parents could use some help as well as some self-restraint from the makers of movies, music and games.
      Good values applied to our freedoms are important now more then ever to our society. Parents cannot do it all considering today's mass media world. And they cannot do it by themselves.

      I did not have the time to address each of your points, so I picked out two of the larger ones. Thanks for your point of view.

      --
      This has been another valuable and informative opinion from:
      Catahoula!
    10. Re:From the article by Unordained · · Score: 1

      I realize this article is going to go stale soon now and prevent us from replying to each other, but I thought I'd point out a terminology difference that could be important:
      - what you call freedom, I call ability (sometimes opportunity)
      - what you call right, I call freedom
      - what I call right, you don't seem to have a word for.

      To me, freedom is what society tells you it won't punish you for. This is beyond the physical ability to do things, which you can't possibly lose (except, perhaps, by being locked up.) A right is a freedom society tells you it will never take away from you, and doesn't have the freedom to take away from you. ("Or else.")

      The problem I see with your argument, then, is that you assume that freedom of speech is merely what you call freedom, that is, a basic ability not covered by law. But it's actually a freedom, even a right, in my sense -- the Constitution, our binding agreement, states that I have this freedom. Not merely that I had it, and nobody's touching it, but that society agrees that it shall stand the hell out of my way, or else I have permission to punish it for standing in my way. I think that's a big difference. It's not just unregulated, it's protected by law.

      The classic phrase is "just because you -can- do something doesn't mean you -should- do something". I agree that, even with my own terms, you shouldn't do things you have the freedom to do just for the hell of it -- I have the [protected] freedom to commit suicide, but I don't do it purely because I have the freedom to. But I still don't think we can call freedom that which we're told not to do "or else". I'd in fact posit that's part of the definition of freedom. Obviously, mileage varies.

    11. Re:From the article by catahoula10 · · Score: 1

      "the Constitution, our binding agreement, states that I have this freedom."

      If you feel that the Constitution is a binding agreement that we have this freedom to speech, then we are using the same vocabulary regarding freedom. Now here is the catch, in order to keep that "right" to have freedom of speech, and to not have that right curtailed by new laws that can amend the constitution to our freedom of speech,-- we must respect that freedom and not abuse that freedom.

      I see your point now however. You feel that in order for a freedom to be a real freedom, then nothing and no one should be able to take that freedom away from you. And i feel the same way.

      But this is the real world and our constitutional freedoms have been under attack for quite some time now. So what i am saying is this: if we do not want new laws restricting freedom of speech then we need to guard our freedom of speech with prudent behavior while using that freedom of speech. And the best way we can guard our freedoms is to not abuse our freedoms.

      So, regarding violent games, i feel that it would behoove the vid-game industry to use some type of basic common sense and moral restraint system when it comes to gross violence, else they just might face some oppressive constitutional restrictions in the future regarding their free speech freedom. IOW piss-off enough parents and they complain loudly to their elected representatives. And if enough representatives get complaints new laws get passed.

      I'd in fact post that's part of the definition of freedom. Obviously, mileage varies

      Are any of us really free? Some have more freedoms then others, and some have rights that others do not have. But when it all boils down to it, we all answer to someone somehow. And that even includes video game makers.
      --

      --
      This has been another valuable and informative opinion from:
      Catahoula!
  3. They're called parents... by Hamster+Lover · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From TFA:

    Despite the failure of similar bills, Diaz de la Portilla believes SB492 provides the means to protect children. 'Left to their own devices, children often do not realize the harm they are causing themselves through the exposure to graphic sexual and violent content found in many of today's video games'.

    I think what he's looking for is this mythical creature called a parent . Replace "graphic sexual and violent content" with "playing in the street" and you see the logic he's using. Where are the parents?

    1. Re:They're called parents... by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1

      And the law requires that a parent make the purchasing decision... not the child.

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  4. means to protect children by IAmTheDave · · Score: 1
    means to protect children

    I'm sure he "means" to, but how many scientific studies have to point to the good that comes from gaming, how many different rating systems do we need, and how DO we protect children from parents too ignroant to understand that perhaps a 6 year old shouldn't be shooting cops?

    --
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  5. Ah, Floria! by Kelson · · Score: 0

    I hear Floria's a great vacation spot, though I've never been there myself. I always assumed it was near Florida, but I can't seem to find it on a map.

    1. Re:Ah, Floria! by rogabean · · Score: 1

      Hey I live here in Floria... you insensitive clod!

      Right in the Orlado area.

      --
      "why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
    2. Re:Ah, Floria! by Kelson · · Score: 1

      Right in the Orlado area.

      That's right by DizzyWorld, right?

    3. Re:Ah, Floria! by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      It might take a while to get there, even with FTL travel -- it's inthe Cassini system. Incur some time-debt and take a long nap, I say:

      Floria

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  6. A Bush Speaks the Truth by Timinithis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not since the time of Moses has a Bush spoken such truth as Gov. Bush did. ''I think self-regulation is the first step,'' Bush said. "Parents ought to take control over their children's lives.''

    Sadly, more and more the U.S. is turning to government legislation to protect what could be protected with a little common sense. Parents should be more responsible toward their spawn than just providing a roof and food while feeling happy that Little Tommy is in his room playing games and not on the street doing drugs or worse.

    I think the game industry does an excellent job of indicating what age group should be playing a game, but that is just a suggestion and parents should pay attention to what is going on.

    Let's just keep giving more power to the governement so we don't have any freedoms at all.

    --
    Sig? What's a Sig?
    1. Re:A Bush Speaks the Truth by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      Not since the time of Moses has a Bush spoken such truth as Gov. Bush did My entire cube subsection can't stop laughing at this. Bravo :)

  7. "Won't somebody think of the children?" by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

    Since some politicians use that line so much... well, if it is a sincere concern, there are more serious points to worry about.

    *points to sig*

    1. Re:"Won't somebody think of the children?" by leland242 · · Score: 1

      hell, i added you as a friend becase of your sig!

      damn parents hacking up my junk....

    2. Re:"Won't somebody think of the children?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Circumcision must be outlawed

      ...because men who are circumcised suffer the same psychological effects found in rape victims? Are you for real?

      And then there's:

      ...resulting in significant loss of sexual sensitivity.

      All I can say is that, if I were any more sensitive, I would have had a heart attack a long time ago. Honestly, people. Get a life. There are way more important problems than this.

    3. Re:"Won't somebody think of the children?" by Aranth+Brainfire · · Score: 1

      "There are way more important problems than this."

      Such as banning children from buying potentially damaging video games! Seriously, people, get some priorities.

      --
      "Quoting yourself is stupid." -Me
  8. "Pssst! It means *gambling*..." by mkcmkc · · Score: 2, Informative
    • Gaming (gambling) -- legal
    • Gaming (video) -- illegal
    Ha ha!
    --
    "Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
  9. Protecting? by malsdavis · · Score: 1

    How exactly the law 'protect' children?

    Does it prevent that oh so common problem of enemies jumping out of the computer screen and shooting kids with their RPG?

  10. pssht by hermit850 · · Score: 1

    The only way they're going to make games less "accessible" to minors is if Walmart puts them out of reach on the top rack and not randomly tossed on the bottom rack. They had ZERO copies of Civ 4, but plenty of F.E.A.R. Oh well looks like your kid is buying the next best thing. *brags* Well I never get carded

  11. Sounds familar... by Admiral+Frosty · · Score: 2, Insightful

    'Left to their own devices, children often do not realize the harm they are causing themselves through the exposure to graphic sexual and violent content found in many of today's video games' Isn't that why God invented parents? Or what that Al Gore, I forgot.

  12. Here in Germany... by Nahooda · · Score: 1

    Here in Germany we've already got similar laws which are a lot stricter than in the US since computer games have a very negative image here.

    Brutal games are "indexed". If you want to buy them you have to ask for them and show your identity card. Furthermore, it's not allowed to present these games in places that can be accessed by children and teenagers. So in usual dvd or computer game stores you can only get them from "under the table" (German expression).

    Violent games get an "FSK 18" or "Keine Jugendfreigabe" rating, which means, it's strictly _prohibited_ to sell them to under-eighteens. But it's allowed to promote them publicly.

    Games that use symbols prohibited by German constitution (such as swastikas like in Wolfenstein 3D), anything else related to Nazi Germany or are EXTREMELY brutal (like Man Hunt) get "beschlagnahmt" which comes very much close to a complete ban. Only difference to a ban is you are allowed to own them privatly although it's illegal to import them to Germany.

    So, since it's common sense, that violent content has to be kept away from kids, in Germany no one really understands the debate going on about this issue in the US.

    In contrast to the US, violent content is considered to be much more harmful to kids than sexual content.

    Regards,

    -DBS

    --
    Sigs suck!
    1. Re:Here in Germany... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looking at Germany, one still wonders if things have changed since 1938....

  13. Re:"Pssst! It means *gambling*..." by RichDiesal · · Score: 1

    What about "Gaming (shooting deer)"?

    I was once one of the officers for a college organization called the "Knoxville Gaming Bureau," which focused on, believe it or not, playing all sorts of games, video games included. We put up flyers all over campus to advertise when we first started up. Important part of this puzzle: we're talking about Knoxville, Tennessee.

    Fast forward to meeting one: some good-ole-boy politely comes in and sits down, listens politely to the first five minutes of our introduction, stands up and says "Y'all don't hunt?"

    "No sir. No sir, we do not. And politely take your rifle elsewhere."

  14. see where the problem is? by Kanasta · · Score: 3, Insightful

    *Left to their own devices...*

    Perhaps children should NOT be left to their own devices all the time...

  15. Flawed logic by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

    > ....
    > policy, not law. The other 0.1% gets
    > consistently struck down as unconstitutional.

    If a paedophile gave your 9 year old indecent pictures of himself, then society jails him.

    So if he _sold_ those pictures to your 9 year old, it's "unconstitutional" to arrest him, eh?

    Wake up , listen to your conscience. It is about "saving the children".

    1. Re:Flawed logic by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      Read the first paragraph of my post: find the law. Give me statutes, not hypotheticals.

  16. Parents should monitor their kids, not politicians by Captain_Thunder · · Score: 1

    I think parents should take responsibility for what their kids are doing, rather than have lawmakers do it for them. If they're so worried about their kids going on a killing spree after playing GTA, then don't buy the game. If they know what their children are playing and the kids are mature enough to handle it, that's fine too. We really don't need the government getting involved in entertainment.

    --
    My journal: Clicky. Read it because it
  17. Other sources of danger by Redwin · · Score: 1

    What about other sources of sexual or violent content? If people are really concerned about certain content being harmful then maybe they should start banning other information streams as well, such as books? Sexually themed? "The player of games" by Iain M. Banks had some seriously disturbing sexual scenes.. "The Gap Series" by Steven Donaldson is probably one of the most disturbed series of books I've ever read with a major theme around the repeated rape of a womem. "Lady Chatterley's Lover" maybe?

    Hmmm violent themes, books? Nope can't think of any.. they are obviously all peaceful without any descriptions of battles, torture, murder etc..

    Also, and probably more importantly, books rely on imagery painting a picture that the reader can build up for themselves given the description because *gasp* different people view things DIFFERENTLY.

    Finally, one could argue that children would not read these books, because strangely enough, they are designed for adults. Not like these games that have no age reccomendations saying what target market they are aimed at.

    --
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