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Taiwanese Parliament votes Against Microsoft
linumax writes "Taiwan's parliament has voted to end its dependence on Microsoft software, demanding that the government reduce purchases from the software giant by 25 percent this year. The resolution, passed on Friday, is an attempt by the island's law-making body to end the near monopoly Microsoft has with local government offices, a legislative aide said. Local newspaper Commercial Times said however that the resolution may not be binding because it runs against fair trade regulations in Taiwan. Officials at Taiwan's Fair Trade Commission declined to comment."
how much do you want to bet that the gov't sites are only acccessible via internet explorer?
Microsoft offers China software for their missile guiding systems and naval fleet.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
They can replace it with OSX computers, thus spending a lot more money in the process, or they can use some Linux variety which will not support most of the software they need, requiring custom solutions and ports, thus spending a lot more money in the process.
So which one will it be?
Instead of dumping Windows randomly (wtf is getting rid of "25% of the monopoly"??) they could instead negotiate to get better deals out of MS. If they buy XP now, they're set with support and a modern OS for at least the next 7 years (I know Vista is coming, but XP will be a factor for a long, long time still).
Which will show a BSOD just when used during the *real* firing.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
The refered article says: "Local newspaper Commercial Times said however that the resolution may not be binding because it runs against fair trade regulations in Taiwan. Officials at Taiwan's Fair Trade Commission declined to comment." Why now then, and not 10 years ago? What's the drip of water that flooded the bucket? (Dutch saying translated to bad english).
If past form is anything to go by Ballmer or another senior executive will be booking their flights to head down and do a deal. Expect a large discount to be forthcoming that would allow the government to continue with its purchasing and still meet the 25 per cent target. It's happened before but the question is how long Microsoft can continue along that route. Discounting is all very well but once more governments get in on the game it's going to start costing. Why is it one supposes that Microsoft seems to move faster when a government threatens to stop sales than when they threaten it with an enquiry? This tells you a lot about the effectiveness of competition regulations in a WTO world.
Way to go Taiwan! I expect many more Countries to move their Government IT infrastructures over to OSS in the year ahead.
I'm sure I am not the only one snickering at the irony at the comment about potential Fair Trade violation -- against MS, which is an Internationally convicted Monopolist.
Which begs the question, are Taiwanese Lawmakers so stupid to make laws that prevent their Governemnt from having a real choice for purchases, or are MS's lobbyists also very active over at the WTO?
This sounds like the common strategy to deal with the Microsoft problem:
1) Draw a box around all existing Microsoft software infesting the government or company in question. Forbid the growth of any Microsoft software outside this box.
2) Once the Microsoft infestation has been contained and growth halted, slowly start purging the existing Microsoft software and formats with clean and open solutions like OpenOffice, OpenDocument, Apache, Linux, BSD, XML, etc...
"...because it runs against fair trade regulations in Taiwan. Officials at Taiwan's Fair Trade Commission declined to comment."
this is already a pretty nasty situation...i'm sure these officials aren't looking forward to dealing with it whats-o-ever. from the looks of it, this issue has blue marks from when people tried to poke at it with a 10' pole.
After Microsoft fits them with software, the standard procedure includes:
- Boot up missile command system.
- First thing you do is install latest security patches, or else some kid in San Jose, California is going to take control of your missile.
- Log in to Hotmail.com to get the target coordinates from your superior officer. You will find it buried somewhere in the middle of 80 or so M3NSGR0WTH spams.
- After your clear the pop-up messages blocking the launch widget, launch the missile.
- Restart whole prodecure after missile crashes in the blue ocean of death well short of its target.
MS has serious corporate affairs problems and its lobbying strategies are part of the game.
E.g. in Europe: When MS gets the scum of US lobbying to Europe and they are unable to adapt to Europe, no wonder parliament rejects them. Even EU-Commissioner Wallström spoke negatively about Microsoft:
"And I was very disappointed to learn that Microsoft has agreed to block Chinese blog entries that use words like democracy, freedom, human rights and demonstration." It seems like Microsoft is not alone in "bad company"." -- which implies the Commissioner openly called MS a "bad company".
Guess Taiwan will also be excited about those MS-"relations" to China.
--
I mean, look at political radicals like DCI/TechCentralStation, or persons like Jonathan Zuck or Hugo Lueders which served Microsoft's interests in lobbying. No wonder they lose.
Whenever Ms is in trouble they hire a whole universe of unsound lobbyists which poisons their reputation in Parliament. Like the tobacco industry.
Media hates Microsoft, loves anti-MS stories. Everybody knows Microsoft and its products. Good for nasty stories.
Microsoft lobbyists usually do serious mistakes which fire back on Microsoft.
What will those idiots do now? Hire everybody they can get and further ruin their reputation in Taiwan. Hire lobbyists which will execute the strategy the public expects. What will civil society do? Gratulate MS for the great aid to their lobbying efforts.
As China refuses to let go off Taiwan, it is still (at least politically) owned by China.c hrists/[insert random irrational stereotypical offensive word here] at Microsoft and get some real bad-assed red commie powers!
So, they could just roll out Red Flag Linux real quick!
Screw the capitalists/monopolists/satanic-worshippers/anti-
This is Taiwan we're talking about.
When they say they'll reduce purchases on Microsoft-related products, they actually mean that 25% more IT-related money will go into various politicians' pockets.
I wonder what this means for Taiwanese hardware makers that, until now, have only provided Windows drivers.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Clean... OpenOffice... ?
Okay, let's try that one again, without hitting "Submit" when I mean "Preview":
There are a whole lot of Taiwanese people who would disagree with your characterization of Mainland (PRC) China's "ownership" of any part of the political system of Taiwan.
Just as one example, the presidential party in Taiwan, the Progressive Democrats, are officially pro-independence. (And depending on who you ask, so is the other major party at least on paper; they're just more conciliatory towards the PRC.)
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
A chair with the words "Made in Taiwan" is being thrown.
I agree with the two points, however there is an important third component to ridding a company or government of Microsoft products.
3. Purge any and all employees who are loyal to Microsoft and not the organization for which they work.
This is one area that seems to get overlooked too often when discussing organizations that are struggling to rid themselves of Microsoft products. In my experience it is not the actual document formats or application retraining that is the stumbling block to migrating to open systems, but very often one rogue IT manager or employee who can best described as a "Microsoft guy."
Companies like IBM had entire divisions of these people who were more loyal to Microsoft than to the company that employs them. IBM dumping their PC hardware division thankfully purged a huge number of these rogue employees from the company - although IBM still has a long way to go with similar types of Microsoft loyal employees throughout the company.
Exposing these people in the companies we work for by making it clear how many thousands or millions of dollars they are wasting is something the open source crowd really needs to step up to the plate and do. Many companies have no idea of the magnitude of waste they are spending on Microsoft products every year. Anonymous emails or other forms making these numbers known in companies can jar a company onto the open source/open format path in a hurry. If there is one thing geeks can be, it's sneaky when it comes to computers and information...
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ tw.html
22,894,384 (2005) in population, 13+ million people are online. Making legislative body to make policy against a major player in computing industry (Microsoft in this case), may create one of the most damaging ripple for Microsoft.
Although that 13.8 million internet users won't turn off their Windows machines over night, but it's plausable to tinker with the idea that Taiwanese government may legislate a similar policy to goverment contractors and corporations dealing business with Taiwanese government to enforce private sectors to depend less on Microsoft product. And knowning China and her relationship with Microsoft, this may be interesting to see how Chinese government will react to this plausable senario.
"Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
Of legal licenses, at least within government use? 25% sounds like a lot, but if 75% of their desktops are running unlicensed MS software then MS is not really taking a hit with this 25% reduction.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
Who'd a thunk it! Next they'll be a story about the Chinese negotiating with Hollywood to drive down the prices on DVDs.
It's a Whole New World!
The dutch saying however is superior, naturally being dutch, as it neatly combines with the other saying "a drop in a bucket". Wich is used often to show something having little to no effect. True or not, enough drops and the bucket still overflows. I think the english version is a crack in the armor? One crack doesn't matter but they add up until your standing naked on a battlefield.
Anyway all the crap about Fair Trade should tell you the opposition is really grasping at straws. Fair Trade Regulations are for enforcing against your enemies NEVER for restricting yourselve. Airbus VS Boeing. Europe and America both heavily subsidize the respective companies and both call foul when the other does it. Same with farm subsidies.
This is just another tiny wakening up as the world realises that having all IT tied up by one company is perhaps not the smartest move ever made.
Oh and all the people crying that MS will just do X or the US goverment will stop it or it will never happen. Straws on camels and drops in buckets remember. It all adds up.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
You are right, your comment is crap. Getting out of the dependency on a single company as it is now exists with Microsoft is reason enough -- no matter where that company is based. Whether or not there are problems with the US (there are, and not surprisingly so) might be a factor, but by far not as important as the problems of single vendor lock in that already exist and will become bigger in the future unless something is done against it now.
It is probably more the conflict of Taiwan with China and Microsoft's recent moves to take part in the biggest party in the world. And that MS lobbyists are nuts.
China's politics on their own are already screwed up enough. Frankly it seems to suffer from an advanced case of split personality. This is nothing unusual, many "goverments" do things that seem to be at odds with each other but china just does it to the extreme. How can you really combine capatlism and communism in one country? By not looking to closely at policies that seem to contradict each other. Instead you just go with the flow and hope it all works out. Sorta like most of human history. So they shot some protesting students when it went a bit out of control. Name one country in the world that has not killed peacefull protestors since the end of WW2.
Taiwan is a point of pride but for the immidiate future it is like what cuba is to america. Exactly why does America still boycot cuba? By now it should be clear it ain't working in fact it only shows to the world exactly how america thinks of anyone that does not do exactly as it tells them. Bad PR but giving in will make the americans loose face.
Same with China and Taiwan. It makes China look bad constantly as no discussion about China is complete without someone bringing up taiwan but China giving in would cause to much loss of face.
So your suggestion of anything happening is absurd. if anything considerings china push of red flag linux this could be seen by the insane as a move by taiwan to please China.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The article doesn't say that the govenrment must reduce the use of the Windows OSes; just Microsoft software, so Taiwan could just use different databases, office suites, etc
Windows is the only real option
What the heck else are they going to use? Linux? Ha!
Hey Steve, stop wasting your time in these forums and go back to work!
--- Bill
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
"Exactly why does America still boycot cuba?"
.. but that won't be interesting at all, now would it? :)
IMHO, Cuba now is a strategic enemy of state. Cuba is no more threat to US than Canada is to US, but the idea that Cuba one time in history pointed nuclear warhead toward US still can be viewed as recent history.
"So your suggestion of anything happening is absurd. if anything considerings china push of red flag linux this could be seen by the insane as a move by taiwan to please China."
First, I merely suggested that it would be an interesting outcome. Even you suggested that China has split personality, so it would be "plausable" to play with an idea that perhaps China's influence may play a role. Second, I never suggest China will push for Red Flag linux, however China may favor Microsoft and perhaps that's where it may turn out with interesting result.
But over all, I do agree. China most likely will not touch this issue and more than fair to say that China will leave Taiwan alone.
"Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
The worst bit is that someone apparently broke the connection Computer == Windows. This is bad. Kinda like thinking in america Democracy == Capatalism. They got a place in Cuba for people like that.
To many people even the suggestion of running another OS runs into a brick wall as computers is Windows. An alternative OS to them is XP or 98 or 2000. This example is even clearer when it comes to office software. Just try sending your CV to anyone in a non MS word format. Like eh RTF? A MS format? Documents == MS Word.
This is very handy. It causes a kinda loop, because everyone runs windows everything only works with windows so people buy windows so that their stuff will work and because nobody buys anything else then windows nothing else is supported. Cue endless loop.
UNTIL someone throws a spanner into the works and decides that they are going to run another OS. Oh one doesn't matter, he/she will just have to adapt or die. "Very nice OS you written their Mister Torvalds but what you going to do with eh? All software available is for Windows and won't run on your OS."
Luckily Mister Stallman had been working on lots of pieces of software and it met up and spawned Linux (or to keep Mr Stallman happy GNU/Linux).
Slowly the almost complete dominance of MS on the desktop started to crumble. Oh sure, a fraction of a percentage at first but remember, the biggest avalance starts with a single snowflake. Except that MS doesn't fear an avalance. It fear a snowball.
Why? As long as it has/had 99% of the market it could dictate its standards on the rest of the world. Internet Explorer is a clear example. Your website MUST work on IE. MS doesn't feel like supporting all the features of PNG image format? Then it isn't usable. Oh sure Mozilla can show some nice demos of what is possible but what is the use? IE doesn't support it.
Throw in a lot of unique features into IE and you will create that loop again. If you want to view 100% of websites you better be running IE and because everyone uses IE websites can use the unique features that handily force everyone to run IE. And so on.
The Linux freaks, BSD zombies and Mac faggots on their own are bad enough neatly reducing MS dominance by easily 5%. Oh wow, 5%, MS must be quaking in its boots, somebody setup a collection fund for Bill Gates kids so they can buy some shoes.
Very funny BUT it does matter, not because MS is going to go bankrupt but because the loop is being broken. IF 5% of you potential web customers do not run IE at any cost do you still code your website to make use of IE only features? This is a bit like asking, if 5% of your supermarket customers are in wheelchair or use a rollator do you build an extra wide entrance to allow them entry or do you let them go to the competitor who does?
It is becoming easier and easier to surf the net without IE.
And this is just with a tiny percentage changing. Now 25% of all goverment desktops switching? Yikes. You know this might mean that goverment sites actually become mandatory visible in non-ie browsers. Shock HORROR! It could mean that ideas like using MS passport for identification with your local goverment (actually proposed) would be impossible.
MS has survived a long time because if you wanted to do IT you had to do windows. IF this changes and MS will really face competition where a person can go in a store and choose his OS on preference NOT because his software on runs on one of them that would force MS to compete on quality.
That has MS very worried indeed.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
In Taiwan, that chair will go straight through those paper walls!
This has been happening all over the world. No news at all. What I am waiting for is a story that says that XYZ decides to move to all Microsoft Solutions and this _be_ newsworthy. Maybe in a few years. Hopefully.
So Taiwan is willing to stand up to both Microsoft and China! Way to go! I wish other industrialized nations had that kind of courage!
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
When choosing an operating system for government use, particularly in areas such as law enforcement, taxation, military, or legislative administration, the choice between open and closed source operating systems boils down to national security.
By choosing an open source system such as Linux, a nation has the power to audit and fix holes in the operating system which leave the government open to espionage. Choose Windows, and you will have to count on an American company to keep your computers secure from such glaring problems as the WMF bug. Choose Windows, and you will have to hope that American intelligence agencies and Microsoft billionaires and their buddies are honest enough to proactively discover problems, inform you of them, and fix them. Choose Windows, and you bank on Microsoft spending its money towards improving its existing products, (through, for example, exhaustive security audits), as opposed to earmarking that money towards ridiculous expansionistic endeavors into other business markets (too many to list here), and polishing up the next versions of their cash cows: Office and Windows.
Now, interestingly enough, this argument can be expanded to encompass concerns about corporate espionage. Do you trust your corporate secrets to Bill Gates?
If I was a MP in Taiwan, I'd introduce legislation to BAN government use of proprietary, closed-source operating systems. It's a matter of national security.
Is the Gates Foundation, which provides software to need schools, etc., buys primarily Miscrosoft products (about 90% of their software budget) and always pays list price. There's a nice built in profit margin for Microsoft!
Genius is one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration, which is why engineers sometimes smell really bad.
4. Purge any and all employees who are loyal to Linux/OSS and not the organization for which they work.
>>Anonymous emails or other forms making these numbers known in companies can jar a company onto the open source/open format path in a hurry. If there is one thing geeks can be, it's sneaky when it comes to computers and information...
Another thing geeks can be is hopelessly naive, childish and totally fucking unaware of the real world, and how your supposed campaign of 'Anonymous emails' would be percieved by anyone remotely in authority, or any serious decision-makers.
Sheesh!
There are some nasty people who have suggested that MS has benefitted greatly from pre-XP version of its software being so easy to copy. OS/2 was harder and copying Apples OS is pointless since it is tied to the hardware. How many people had MS Office at home because that was the CD they could borrow from work?
MS has neatly ensured that IT is the desktop and if that changes its whole business must change. You can see this with IE. All of sudden it is being upgraded and copying all the features that exist in Firefox and Opera. Why? Not because MS is loosing money, they do not sell IE so why should they care? Because Firefox/Opera/Safari is costing them the control of the desktop.
MS only started caring about everyone paying for their license when they thought they had the market controlled. If you give MS the choice between taiwan going 25% non-ms or giving taiwain all MS software it wants free of charge then the answer is clear. MS has already done that in the past. Google for Munich, when MS learned it was not the only bidder it lowered its price and offerted so much freebies that it was basically giving the install away. All to stop its dominance from crumbling. MS can afford to loose a few billion, it cannot afford competition.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Also, note that Taiwanese have already integrated their economy into the economy of mainland China although the political systems remain separate. There is the distinct possibility that the Taiwanese government may standardize on the Chinese version of Linux: that version is Red Flag Linux.
The Taiwanese have already invested more than $100 billion into more than 50,000 businesses in mainland China. Following the example set by mainland Chinese companies, Taiwanese companies have also sold weapons technology to Iran: Washington slapped sanctions against both Taiwanese companies and Chinese companies. (My source is "The Federal Register" for January 2005.)
More than 1 million Taiwanese have already emigrated to mainland China. They voluntarily choose to live under the authoritarian rules of Beijing and view being ruled by Beijing as simply an inconvenience. I suspect that most Taiwanese have used Red Flag Linux; certainly, most of the Taiwanese emigrants to China have used it.
As a side note, we Americans should never sacrifice our time, our money, or even our lives to prevent a mere inconvenience for the Taiwanese, and we should terminate our support for Taiwan. The Taiwanese have manipulated us Americans completely. (The Taiwanese constitution even insists that Tibet should be integrated into "One China".)
Seems like an insightful comment to me.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
...Microsoft will help China upgrade their ICBM-installations using Windows-CE and Windows-Vista.
In a comment, Bill Gates was quoted as saying: "We will help China bring clarity to the world (tm), especially to insignificant provinces on the south of their border."
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
But not because of licencing. Because of national interest. Recently a union threatened to shut down the power plants and oil refinery infrastrure via programming and the government was terrified at the prospect of not being able to get their software running, or, if something was done to damage it, fixed.
Feeling the walls closing in a little?
"...you bank on Microsoft spending its money towards improving its existing products...
...
No, you bank on Microsoft spending YOUR money
As much as I want to say, "HELL YEA TAIWAN" I won't... But I will say that if the Taiwanese people ever get a major country-spread disease such as Malaria, Bill Gates will probably not help them..
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
One thing I have noticed watching Asian films is how much emphasis there is on characters who are of ambiguous morality. There are also pure good/evil characters, and typically the good characters will have to work with the people in the gray area in order to accomplish the good that they are trying to achieve.
I think it is possible that Taiwan is merely following this delicate balancing act--they have to allow themselves to be somewhat in bed with the mainland even though there are parts of that deal they may not like. You seem to me to be suggesting that they should play strictly and overtly pro-democracy strategy all the time. I think it may not be that easy in Taiwan when you're right next to the giant.
I haven't RTFSRITS (read the site referenced in the sig), though, so caveat lector.
Liberty uber alles.
This is slashdot, so I didn't RTFA, but TFS says:
Note that this doesn't say install Windows on 25% less of the desktops. It says to spend 25% less on Microsoft software. Unlike others, I'm not going to imply that the Government is intending to pirate more copies, but instead suggest that initially they'll probably cut from other areas. Things like not purchasing Office at all (and using OpenOffice) or converting their file servers to Novell servers or dumping Exchange servers are much faster and easier ways to drastically cut spending on MS software. Heck, simply cutting out Office alone (assuming all PC's have Office and it's a legal copy on each one) will probably be more 50% of the money going to MS.
Now the goal here is to not depend on Microsoft, so eventually I'm sure they will migrate to either Linux or Mac or BSD or whatever, but off from Windows. But it doesn't have to be in the initial 25% reduction. Of course, it could be... nothing in the summary says that it won't be
Life has many choices. Eternity has two. What's yours?
demanding that the government reduce purchases from the software giant by 25 percent this year..... said however that the resolution may not be binding because it runs against fair trade regulations in Taiwan.
Rather than dictate a reduction which may trigger a legal mess, why not create an "encuragement" program, such as returning into a department's budget the cost savings from altneratives. Thus, if an office uses MySQL instead of MS-SQL, then let them keep the money that would go for MS-SQL rather than remove it from their budget?
It is difficult to get away from MS-Office because of document compatibility issues. However, server-oriented stuff such as Outlook, IIS, and MS-SQL are fairly easy to replace by dissallowing new setups for new sites and requiring existing MS sites to write most new software for the OSS product (after training).
Table-ized A.I.
I would say this news is totally BS.
Taiwan is still in its early stage of democracy. The opposite party have controled taiwan over 50 years. Six years ago, they losed presidential election. Now, the opposite party is trying its best to get the power back. They are willing do anything.
Last friday, parliament in taiwan was in a mass. They cut off 25% annual budget (of everything) just trying to stop current leading party to do anything. That is why you see this news. The f*ckers in Parliament do not care anything about OSS. They did not vote against Microsoft, they voted asainst leading party.
Theo de Raadt says: Buy Taiwanese, because they publish hardware specs for the FOSS community.
In my experience it is not the actual document formats or application retraining that is the stumbling block to migrating to open systems, but very often one rogue IT manager or employee who can best described as a "Microsoft guy."
Ain't this the truth. When I was contracting I ran into this time and again - some prick who didn't give a shit about the organization he worked for, but practically had an altar to Bill Gates in his bedroom. For him it was Microsoft, and everything else was a tool of the Great Satan.
And it doesn't have to be management to cause a problem. Any fat-assed Gates-worshipping geek in the right position can create problems with roll-outs or fixes or installs. It's active sabotage but as far as they're concerned they're doing it for their god, so it's all good. It amazed me what some people would do out of a fanatical devotion to a man who they'd never met and who didn't give a fuck whether they lived or died.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Someone shooting the president the night before the re-election in 2004 doesn't make Taiwan look to stable, either.
I'm a gnu world man.
It might seem instightful, but consider: can it be insightful and still be wrong?
If they can cut 25% with no problems, then there's no "monopoly" at all. This is grandstanding. It's also stupid policy. They should try to get the best value for their money. If Microsoft offers the best value for their money, then they should go with it. If not, then they should go with something else. But arbitrarily eliminating a company's products from consideration only allows the competing products to charge more and/or get away with offering less functional products.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Just to illustrate this look at how MS breaks Java, HTTP, HTML, TCP/IP, NTP, Kerberos and LDAP, to name a few. All that's needed to chuck MS out on the street is to require adherence to open standards.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Yup. But it is clear to me that the guy was not trolling.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.