Slashdot Mirror
EU Software Patent Argument to Reopen?
pryonic writes "The Register is reporting that the EU software debate may be reopened by the Internal Markets Commissioner Charlie McCreevy. He has unveiled a public consultation on 'future action in patent policy to create an EU-wide patent system can take account of stakeholders needs.'" More from the article: "Both individuals and businesses are invited to contribute to the consultation which will run until 31 March. In launching the initiative McCreevy said that the European Commission wants to make the single market for patents 'a reality.' He urged individuals and businesses to give their views on how that could be achieved." Groklaw has
commentary on this development as well.
You MUST STOP SOFTWARE PATENTS NOW. We could not in the US and look at the mess we are in.... Do whatever it takes to talk with your representatives, MPs, etc. Get a good, solid dialog going and put this to bed.
The goal of creating a single patent system for europe is not a bad thing in itself. But they should start with the lowest dominator instead of trying to make "everything" patentable.
Lets hope they've learned something from the previous attempt and they will go for a clear patent systems that only allows "real" inventions.
But I honestly dont think that the big money will accept a more strict patent system. So we need to keep the politicans aware of what the citizens think!
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>omg patents are so bad (+2, Insightful) >>omg yea, the system is broken (+2, Insightful) >>> yea how you can patent a process.. this is riduclous (+5, Informative) >>>> but we need patents to continue innovation (+3, Interesting) >>>>> No you don't! In my business, , and then (+5, Informative) >>>> i have patented complaining about patents, you owe me money (+5, Funny) >>> It's all president's Bush's fault. (+5, flaimbait) >>>> I hate microsoft (+5, Off-topic)
Is it any surprise that the issue hasn't gone away? Look at the two major supporters for software patents...Microsoft and Sun. They are just using their power and influence to dictate policies that favor them. What I found amusing is this... "The bill had been supported by the European pro-patent lobby, which included corporations such as Microsoft and Sun, who claimed that the directive would encourage investment in research and development in Europe." Sure it would encourage investment....from large companies like MS and Sun. They of course will reap most of the benefits aswell. Software patents are a bad idea and stifle creativity.
http://religiousfreaks.com/A bigger menace to society than even software patents is the slashdot effect. One freaking minute after the story is posted, Groklaw is down.
Here's a novel idea. Instead of all the countries in the EU changing their patent law to include software patents, why doesn't the US prohibit software patents? Seems a better way of making a single market to me.
:v)
Vik
"create an EU-wide patent system can take account of stakeholders needs."
Why do I have a strong suspicion that the biggest stakeholder, the public, won't matter when it comes to decision?
Background: McCreevy was previously Finance Minister in the Irish Government, but fell out of favour with his patrons for his arrogant ways, annoying manner, utter highhandedness and complete inability to listen to his constituents. He's an ardent free-marketeer / economic liberal. He's an annoying man.
<McCreevy>
Nooooo... no no no. Nooo... no...
Well... actually...
Fine. Yes. Yes we are. We really can't hear anything over BigCorp's money. Sweet, sweet money.
</McCreevy>
Excuse my speling.
Making The Bar Project
"What's next? we must sow your mouth shut?"
Don't be pig-headed...
"They are just using their power and influence to dictate policies that favor them."
Yeah, and lions eat antelopes. Not sure what your point is here, other than businesses will protect their interests. Not too insightful, seeing as it's been that way forever.
"Sure it would encourage investment....from large companies like MS and Sun. They of course will reap most of the benefits aswell. Software patents are a bad idea and stifle creativity."
Listen, I understand your point, but you haven't made it here. All you've done is try to vilify MS and Sun, and that may get you karma, it doesn't explain why you think
"Software patents are a bad idea and stifle creativity."
The case is easy to make. Try doing it without the karma whoring.
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
EU to the people: We're going to keep pushing patents until we get what we want.
(And you know what, I've seen enough of this crap to believe they're going to get it.)
No. EC is built according to the french civil service model: "We know better and we are not accountable to anyone".
IIRC, For the time being there is no procedure to impeach or remove one specific commissioner via any of the elected bodies.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
If IBM could have patented software from the get-go, I'm sure they would dominate the market. However, it would be a much smaller market. See quotes against software patentability.
If these clowns won't listen, then it's time to play dirty. What the opponents of this need to do is to frame software patents as a power grab by U.S. corporations over the European market, a way for them to ensure that European innovation is stifled so that Europe will always be beholden to U.S. interests. Then portray these EU bureaucrats as stooges of the giant American corporations.
What this will do is put these guys on the defensive. It changes the issue at hand from, "We need software patents," to, "Wait! I'm not a stooge of the Americans! You aren't listening to my argument!" This may sound like a trivial thing, but it isn't. It changes the entire dynamic from that of these guys pushing ahead with their agenda to them having to explain why they aren't pawns of a foreign country. The ordinary person on the street may not understand what a software patent is, but if you tell them it's being forced on them at the behest of foreign governments and corporations, they won't like it. And before someone chimes in saying that we shouldn't have to play politics this way, that the arguments against software patents are good enough to stand on their own, let me just say this. You're right, but being right won't necessarily win a fight. You also have to be practical, and you have to use every tool at your disposal. There are many times that the side with the right argument loses because it isn't willing to get in there and fight tooth and nail for what it believes in.
Oh, BTW, in case you're wondering, no, I'm not anti-American. In fact, I am an American, but I happen to believe that our patent system is completely corrupt, and I shudder to think that it's being foisted onto any other parts of the world.
These people make me sick: They keep pushing law after law on member states, well aware that the citizen don't want them. It happened that finally countries where there once was a large majority in favor of the EU construction, (The Netherlands, France) rejected the proposed EU constitution. And now they do bussiness as usual. We have an election year in 2007 and if this kind of crap does not stop, I will seriously consider voting for some politician seeking to LEAVE THE E.U.no matter what his other proposals are.
Enough is enough, our french politicians are not very democratic in my view, but these are even worse, and I no longer want to have them ruling my country.
One of those Europeans...
If people want to try to kill software patents, don't try to discourage them! Given how poorly software patents did last round, it is certainly possible that software patents will be abolished across the EU.
http://outcampaign.org/
The EU will continue to bring up the issue of software patents again and again until it's finally put through. We can say no 100 times but say yes once and it's done.
It's the same with the constitution, they'll continue to try and put it through for the next decade, the population will say no again and again, until they say yes, and then it's done.
This is how the EU does things.
It's also why I'm moving to Australia in 3 months. It's a joke.
IMHO ...
Americans can get involved here by organizing a patent protest in the Capital Mall. Get as many programmers together as possible with as many exhibits of how software patents have harmed innovation as possible. Have a march, get the public's attention.
Maybe, just maybe, it will get the attention of someone in power in the US (to fix the issue) and/or someone in power in the EU (to warn them of what could happen).
The biggest problem would be actually getting people there. I, for example, would love to go to such a demonstration, but practically probably could not.
Maybe instead of having to fight back these software patent proposals every year, an EU delegate should propose amending the EU charter to specifically BAN software patents? Seems the pro-patent folks can't take "nay" for an answer.
I have to asl the obvious...
What part of NO do they don't understand?
I'm sure many of us in the UK have written to our MPs and MEPs, among other things, but I'm not aware of any specific UK organisation coordinating ventures to stop these patent shenanigans.
Do any other UK slashdotters feel like getting in touch to see what could be achieved collectively? You know: email, website, forum, PR activites, that sort of thing. There's such a lot of strong opinion about this; maybe a concerted campaign could achieve more than individual efforts?
This is retarded, but I'll bite:
I will give you, however, that the Great Depression is a rather good argument against laissez-faire capitalism, although you hardly touch on it. I would argue that the Great Depression was not caused by market failure or some fundamental flaw in capitalism, but in the general naivete of the public at the time. People believed that stock prices had reached a "permenantly high plauteu", which fueled the purchase of stocks on credit (often, an investor had to pay only 10% of a stock's value up front). If people had the same knowledge of capitalism then as we do now, no-one would beleive that stocks can somehow remain at permanently elevated prices, and therefore, no one would provide the insane amounts of credit that caused loan defaults and bank failures when the market faltered.
DATABASE WOW WOW
EU will have software patent legislation no matter what, just like GWB had his war.
You can try to educate people who are ignorant. These guys are not even remotely ignorant.
They are cold, rational, calculating individuals who exactly know what they want and they will get it no matter whan you, me and Poland says or votes.
I bet a 1,000 dollars (USD) that before this year is out, the legislation would be active in EU.
Am not claiming it would be voted, passed, etc., Am just saying it would be there, hook or crook.
Welcome to 1984-Corporate Style.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
As 'everybody knows' :) there are different phases in the codecion procedure that is used to make new European laws. The parliament rejected the commission patent project a first time and emitted a bunch of amendments. BUT the commission neglected totally the amendments submitted by the parliament. So this negative second vote is a response to the total contempt with which the Parliament was treated by the Commission and the Council.
Thus it does not really means that the majority of the parliament is totally against patenting, it just means they do not want the first proposal of the commission. So I do not think that the battle is over, but I did not expected the patent lobby where retaking the battle that fast.
Let me also bring to attention that the rejection of an European law on patents did never meant that patenting would be forbidden by the member states, the rejection meant that there would be no European harmony in the patents law. So the 'against patent' war was not won, we needed a law prohibiting member states to patent software.
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
The Register article has it wrong. As is very clearly documented Sun, together with Red Hat and others, lobbied against software patents in Europe, as I just documented in my blog. I know, because I was the person acting on Sun's behalf.