Past, Present, and Future of the 360

1up has a piece talking with Peter Moore about the past and future of the Xbox 360. Launch challenges, futures plans, and potential roadblocks are all discussed. From the article: "EGM: You really didn't need a Halo to launch the Xbox 360, did you? PM: No, I don't think we did. It was never really in the plans. Clearly, when you're shipping Halo 2 the year before the launch of a new platform, to expect [developer] Bungie to then immediately move on to a brand-new architecture and bring out a third iteration of a franchise worthy of being one of the greatest franchises in videogame history, it's unreasonable. So, we didn't believe we needed it."

Comments

What is so great about Halo?

[why-is-it]

one of the greatest franchises in videogame history

I've never played Halo. I don't think I have seen it being played either. Could someone please tell me what is so great about Halo?

Honestly, I'm not trolling here. What does Halo offer that is different and improved from other platform-based FPS? Is it the weapons? The controls? The plot? The visials? The levels? What does Halo do that makes it so great?

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[ShibaInu]

To me Halo is good because of the story, the humor and the general feel of the games. I was a Marathon player though, so I'm biased.

Honestly, it is a pretty standard FPS. Not sure why it is as popular as it is.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[iocat]

No single element of Halo stands out (I'm talking Halo 1 here, not Halo 2), but EVERY single element of Halo is impecably tuned, from control to story to graphics to physics to multiplayer to the interface to the ground textures, etc. So it becomes a sublime experience not because it innovates in any one area (it doesn't), but because it's essentially perfect in many different areas simultaniously.

Halo 2 was more uneven, but still pretty great.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[rabbot]

There really isn't anything about Halo that is more than average for a FPS. So to answer your question...nothing.

The only reason it was hyped so much was due to the fact that it saved the XBox from becoming a complete failure. I guess a mediocre game like Halo looked fantastic next to the other titles availabe for the XBox at the time.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[funkmastermike]

I'm not a fanboy whatsoever but the game was fun due to the following 2 reasons:
1) The guns and the balance that they bring to the game. The fact that you can have any combination of two weapons presents a constant need to balance which weapons you should use depending on the situation.
2) The artificial intelligence. Enemies would flank, go around, and waste you.

etc

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[SeekerDarksteel]

I'm primarily a PC gamer and I love PC fps's, but I've also played Halo and I enjoy it as well. I don't prefer one to the other, I enjoy both for their own reasons. Halo is described as a first person shooter, but I would argue that it may be more accurate to call it a first person action game. In PC fps's, reaction time is king. Getting the jump on someone, getting that shot off a few ms earlier, can spell the difference between getting a kill or a death. In Halo, someone can get the jump on me and I can still kill them because of the large amount of health. In addition, if I do kill them I will eventually recharge to full. So in the long term you are not penalized for being slow so long as you still get the kill. Not relying on reaction time as much makes the game more accessible to people who aren't fast enough or coordinated enough for PC fps's.

In addition, the console makes playing with your friends in person much easier than playing on a PC. Playing a fps sitting right next to your ally (or enemy) can be much more exciting and fun than if you are each alone. This is much easier than having everyone bring their boxes over for a lan party. The console also presents a significantly cheaper alternative than each person having their own PC gaming rig. For less than $400, 4 guys can enjoy Halo 2 whereas with, say, HL2 each person needs their own box AND a copy of the game. While someone with a significant amount of geek friends might not find that a barrier, for a run of the mill non-geek college student that is a major problem.

Now, as for why it's different or "better" than other console FPS's? Just like Counter-Strike, I don't think it was because it was so incredibly superior to other games, I think it was just in the right place at the right time to gain popularity. That popularity then becomes self-sustaining. People start playing Halo because that's what everyone else plays on the console. I think that if another inferior game had taken root before Halo and enjoyed the popularity Halo currently has that Halo never would have taken off the way it did.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I've never played Halo. I don't think I have seen it being played either. Could someone please tell me what is so great about Halo?

You see, in Halo, you are Master Chief. The big 8ft tall cybernetically and genetically enhanced super warrior (The Alpha Football Player). Your shield (UnderArmour) makes you all but invincible. You run about for most of the game utterly defeating the smaller and weedier Grunts, Jackels (smaller kids, losers, nerds). The occasional big kid or teacher that stands up to you (Elites, Hunters) are still no match for your God given All-American Superiority. You are accompanied and guided by the naked Ai Cortana (Cheerleader girlfriend), and run around assisting your teammates (Marines), and the coach(Keyes) in kicking loser ass. The flood represent your life after high school when former friend and foe alike reject you(flood conversion) and you become powerless in your new circumstances. Defeating them by destroying Halo(your school), represents your rejection of the harm you caused there, and of the scorn you now face. You escape in the Long Sword fighter(your pickup), with girlfriend in tow.

But it's a good game all the same, but the online play sucks.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[Anonymous Coward]

There was a failed console a long time ago that one of my friends bought. It had one 'big game' on it that he got along with the system.

HE WOULD NOT SHUT UP ABOUT THE FUCKING GAME.

There was no stupid little UI element, weapon, level, graphic element that wasn't THE BEST EVER!!!

He would talk about the game with a relentless desperation with the hope, I assume, of convincing others to buy the console. And validate his stupid choice of a platform that the rest of the console world had passed on.

Compared to Marathon, Halo is an absolute piece of shit. Its crime is that of being dreadfully average.

I would love to see someone put out a version of Halo without the stupid shiny green metal effect and see people's reactions to the game. I think the 'shiny metal' stuff is why a game like Gears of War is getting so much attention for what is otherwise nothing more than the leftovers from UT2007 being a PC/PS3 exclusive.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone that thinks Halo didn't innovate the FPS genre needs to look at how many recent PC shooters have recharging health, grenades on a seperate input, automatic checkpoint systems, two-weapon limits and orchestral music.

Look at CoD2, FEAR, Area 51, Darkwatch, Pariah, Red Faction. If you can't tell how much they borrow from Halo you need to look more carefully.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[misfit13b]

The thing I liked best about it, was the way it organized online play. You start up a session, and invite your friends to a party. That party can then either play amongst themselves, or combine against/with other parties in larger combat.

Sounds simple, but these improvements are best realized when they're missing. Case in point, the 360's Call of Duty 2, where online play is a clusterfuck of servers, timeouts and lag. If I want to have a match between a few of my friends in COD2, it's nearly impossible. In Halo 2, it's easy as hell.

As far as the gameplay itself, I liked the weapons, but wasn't bowled over by the single player campaign in either Halo or Halo 2. As a matter of fact, when Halo 2 came out, I gave my copy of Halo to a friend, as you'll never see me play through that godforsaken "Library" level ever again!

If other 360 FPS games come out--and use Halo 2's design for online play (please!)--Halo 3 is going to have its hands full trying to find something new to make it stand out. Meanwhile, I'm much more excited about the new Ghost Recon.

Disclaimer: Big Xbox fan here. The last PC game I played was Quake 3. A quick look inside my box at the Geforce 256 will attest to that.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like you need get a fucking clue about the history of FPSes before you start trying to lecture people about 'innovative' features...

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[Anonymous Coward]

And, the Marathon games had most of that stuff on the Mac...

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[Saige]

Halo 2 brought the same level of quality to online play as it did to all the other parts of the game. Someone said above that Halo didn't have any one area that was exceptional, but that EVERYTHING in the game was well done, with Bungie's attention to detail and making sure even the small parts of the experience are well done. Well, I think Halo 2's online play is the exceptional part. I haven't found a single game that has anything close to as good of an online experience. Period. Matchmaking based on rank, the party system, the customizability of game types, etc. They set a new standard - now if only other companies would follow it.

None of this crap about finding a server to join - they understood it was about playing the game, not pretending you're setting up a server/client network. You don't to deal with games with combinations of newbies that are cannon fodder and extra-amazing players that run away with the win - ranking systems, even in the training matchmaking lists, that put you up against people with similar rankings to make it more likely that you'll have a challenging - but fair - game. No getting stuck with random teams if you have friends that are on - that's a HUGE thing that I am seriously missing in other games (PDZ).

Halo wasn't about pushing the edges of FPS with wild innovations, but putting together one of the most solid FPS games ever made. And it is.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[JLennox]

I am a very large fan of first person shooters, but as with all genres, many of them fall short of being note worthy.

Halo had a very large hype around it, so I was rather happy when it came out for the PC.

Playing through the first 3 levels was the worst experience of my life.

You move like a piece of clay in low gravity, but the bad guys do not. They very predictably roll away from your grenades, though you're stuck side stepping at a babies crawl away from their attacks. There is a decent amount of weapons which can be picked up off of fallen bad guys or found, and you can carry 2 at a time. Most of the weapons work exactly the same, aside from the major deviations such as sniper riffles. The weapons were not so bad, but were nothing to bother noting.

The largest problem was the level design. The single player level design was disgusting. Very large open areas which were eventless aside from bad guys in grouped bunches. Every single bit of terrain was so featureless that it was simple, and just as little fun, to walk in circles. The inside areas were equally as bad. The vehicles are a band aid of fun placed over an already fatal wound. The game was feeling like a chore to play.

Well, every one told me that it's the multiplayer that was fantastic, so I gave that a go. I picked a 1 on 1 match, and off I went. It was a large open terrain with a few vehicles with a fort on each end with a flag for capturing. He parks his vehicle outside of my base, and uses the infinite ammo supply on it to constantly shoot where I am spawning from. Maybe an experienced player would know what to do in this situation, but my reaction was a fast uninstall and back to playing Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, where even the most skilled spawn camper has trouble against a freshly spawned newcomer.

Duke Nukem 3D had such flush, interactive, and constantly changing terrains. Doom was fast paced, each weapon had it's pluses and minuses, and was as cinematic as possible for it's day. Why do we keep taking steps back?

The above is not a 'troll,' it's my personal feelings regarding what I must consider to be the most overhyped game of all time.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, that describes my experience with the game. Although I skipped the multiplayer part.

I played Marathon years ago. It was an experience that I've yet to surpass in that game genre. The only games tht come close are Ultima Underworld, System Shock, and to a lesser extent the first Half Life. Bungie lost whatever magic they had when they were sold to Microsoft. I don't know if it was key people leaving in the buyout or just the change to Microsoft ownership. Whatever it was, it killed whatever it was that made Marathon so great.

Halo was nothing more than a chore to play.

I think one of the reasons you hear so much about legendary mode from Halo fans is the actual game is just so damn boring that you need to have the AI speed ramped up to give the player any form of excitement.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[C0rinthian]

Not really. Marathon had no limitations on the number of weapons you could carry. (Similar to Doom/Quake/damn near any FPS) In Halo, shields recharge automatically if you don't take a hit for a certain time frame. In marathon they only recharged at specific console. Also grenades were attached to a specific weapon in Marathon, not thrown.

That said, Marathon set the bar for storytelling in a FPS.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[LordNimon]

I think iocat is right. I'm not much of a FPS player, but I'm addicted to Halo 2, even though I'm pretty bad at it. If I don't play for a few weeks, I start going through withdrawals. Sometimes when I play other Xbox games online with my friends, and there's something clunky about the UI or gameplay or whatever, I find myself saying, "Oh well, they can't all be like Halo."

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[C0rinthian]

There is something to be said about having 12 guys on 3 TV's in your apartment going at it in Halo 2.

The neighbors hate us.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[C0rinthian]

The first time I played Halo was on the normal difficulty. I found it an okay game, but nothing spectacular. Then for kicks I jumped the difficulty up to legendary. The difference in AI was astounding. It's not that there were more enemies, or that they were simply stronger. It's that they behaved much more intelligently. The fights were much more interesting and engaging. Normal difficulty just doesn't do the game justice.

Level design did suck though, that can't be denied.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[jclast]

I'm familiar with 2 games on your list: Area 51 and Red Faction. How can you claim that these two games borrow from Halo when both of them were released first? Hell, Area 51 predates Halo by SIX years!

First release dates:
Halo - 11/14/2001 ref
Red Faction - 5/21/2001 ref
Area 51 - 1995 ref

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, not the original Area 51! The re-make!

And you are right, Red Faction came out before Halo. I should have said Red Faction 2, which came out _after_ Halo and had recharging health, a seperate grenade input and a checkpoint system. The first Red Faction had none of these features, making me suspect that the release of Halo inspired those design changes.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[SeekerDarksteel]

Neighbors? Nah, my parents hate me.

Err...damn that makes me sound pathetic...

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[JonathanBoyd]

You move like a piece of clay in low gravity, but the bad guys do not.

You can outrun the badguys, so that's not quite accurate.

Most of the weapons work exactly the same, aside from the major deviations such as sniper riffles. The weapons were not so bad, but were nothing to bother noting.

That's an absurd claim. The weapons have vewry different roles. There's a rocket launcher, sniper rifle, shotgun for closequarters, a high-powered pistol with scope, a low powered, inaccurate assault rifle for mowing down grunts, plasma rifle which stuns people, plasma pistol which has rubbish single shots, but can be charged up to knock out someone's shields instantly, the needler which fires slow homing shards which explode if enough embed themselves int he target and of course there's the grenades, one of which sticks to people, while the other just bounces normally. Bullets can be used to kill people with headshots, while plasma weapons are great at taking down shields. The variety in the weapons was one of the great joys of the game.

The largest problem was the level design.

They were scenic with a real sense of being on an abandoned world. The latter half was basically a repetition of the first half, but in reverse. Personally, I had no problem with that since there were enough chages in where to go and the enemies you faced to make it acceptable. The Library though was a hideous level.

Well, every one told me that it's the multiplayer that was fantastic, so I gave that a go

From the sound of things, you played what is intended to be a large objective-based team map with just 2 people. Of course that's not going to be very enjoyable. If you play a with a big group though, it's great fun, or if you're on a smaller map.

He parks his vehicle outside of my base, and uses the infinite ammo supply on it to constantly shoot where I am spawning from.

Considering that he can't move while shooting, it would be fairly trivial to go somewhere else and lob a grenade at him, find some rockets, or just headshot him with a pistol. These are fairly obvious tactics really.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[JLennox]

I'm not going to bother to continue on about a bad game I played over 2 years ago, but here's just a few points.

They were scenic with a real sense of being on an abandoned world.

Sounds proper for an Abondoned World Simulator, but not for a first person shooter. I'm sure it adds to the cinamtics, but it sure didn't add to the fun.

Considering that he can't move while shooting, it would be fairly trivial to go somewhere else and lob a grenade at him, find some rockets, or just headshot him with a pistol. These are fairly obvious tactics really.

I kept spawning on the roof of the fort where he had a nice clear shot at me every time. A head shot is not possible when your dead the moment you're born. Maby it's possible to change your spawn location, maby not, either way, it adds up to crap game design.

I'm not trying to rob you of your fun here, I'm sure you wouldn't like any of the games I've enjoyed.

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[JonathanBoyd]

Sounds proper for an Abondoned World Simulator, but not for a first person shooter. I'm sure it adds to the cinamtics, but it sure didn't add to the fun.

Depends on what you're after I guess. I liked the atmosphere,t he way you could be wandering round admiring the view one moment, then come across a nice little firefight between some trapped marines and some bloodthirsty Covenant the next. If you want non-stop action, then I can see why it wouldn't appeal. There was more of that in Halo 2, largely because of what I view as a slight over-use of vehicles.

It's a shame you only got to play the first 3 levels. I think you might have liked the 4th and 6th a bit better. 4th opens with a 'Saving Private Ryan' beaches of Normandy-esque assault on a Covenant position, while 6th really milks the atmosphere, with you exploring a very wet swamp in pouring rain, before coming across an abandoned installation. It might not be what you were looking for, but I think that you would agree that in terms of atmosphere, it is very well executed. There was a great 'Aliens' feel to it.

I kept spawning on the roof of the fort where he had a nice clear shot at me every time. A head shot is not possible when your dead the moment you're born. Maby it's possible to change your spawn location, maby not, either way, it adds up to crap game design.

Nt crap game design. More like a crap friend. That map is for more than 2 people. Ideally you really want 6 or more on it. It's unfortunate that you kept spawning in front of his gun. There are quite a few spawn locations - on the basis and off to the side. There should have been time for you to hide in a corner, behind a rock, drop through the hole in the roof, jump through the teleporter, etc on one of the spawns. Sucks that you kept spawning in the same spot.

I'm not trying to rob you of your fun here, I'm sure you wouldn't like any of the games I've enjoyed.

What makes you think that? I appreciate a fair variety of games. I don't think all FPSes need to be constant action for instance :^)

Re:What is so great about Halo?

[chrismcdirty]

Counterstrike and America's Army? Both, as far as I remember, allowed an automatic weapon, a sidearm, and separate keys for grenades/mines/accessories.

Goldeneye had automatic checkpoints.

And as far as I see it, recharging health just makes the game easier. I have low health after killing this wave. Let me sit and wait until I get it back.

More games could use some orchestral music... except for when it isn't called for. Some games feel better with the cheesy metal riffs repeating in the background. It's all about immersion into the environment. Most FPS games shouldn't have any music at all. They'd be better off on the merit of their sound effects to set a mood.

Other things they didn't need

[steveo777]

Clearly, when you're shipping [cool power supplies, fun games] the year before the launch of a new platform, to expect [cool power supply makers, fun games makers] to then immediately move on to a brand-new architecture and bring out a third iteration of [cool power supplies, fun games] worthy of being one of the greatest [cool power supplies, fun games] in videogame history, it's unreasonable.

Marathon?

[TheSalzar]

Once in a far distant past there exist a shooter for the mac called Marathon. By far the greatest game in history. Now freely available, on many platforms under the projet Aleph one.

Re:The score so far

[Anonymous Coward]

December 2005: 360 outsold by the GameCube in the US.

(Yes, I know there are shortages, but frankly, it's no excuse since MS could have planned their launch and/or production a bit better. Heck, if they had waited until May, people wouldn't be bitching about the overheating power supplies and the mediocre game lineup at launch time.)

80 billion yhoo offer

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft recently tried to buy Yahoo for 80 billion. They are being left in the dust by Google and are scrambling to switch the company over to tap into the exploding online ad revenue market.

The size of that offer compared to how much Microsoft actually has in the bank in cash after you subtract off huge number of billions for the increasingly large stock dividends and stock buybacks would indicate how desperate they are to get a foothold in the ad market.

Where that leaves Microsoft and the billions they will have to spend to remain in the console market over the next five years is uncertain.

It is clear that Microsoft considers Google,AOL,Yahoo, and the rest of the ad market their primary focus right now. Another four or five billion no longer is just a drop in the 50 billion dollar cash stockpile of five years ago, but now a serious drag on their ability to take action in expanding aggressively into the ad market.

Even if the low end figures for the losses Microsoft is taking on the 360 hardware is accurate, Microsoft is going to be bleeding cash like mad for the next few years. The 360 is looking more and more like a luxury Microsoft can no longer afford to keep around.

The dream of "owning the livingroom" may be desirable for Microsoft, but the explosion of ad revenue supported applications threatens to decimate Microsoft's core monopoly revenue streams.

Halo strengths and weaknesses.

[Inoshiro]

"Is it the weapons?"
Yes. The weapons are satisfying (especially in Halo 2 with the sword), and you have a realistic amount of them on you (2 max with a half-dozen grenades) when fully loaded.

The melee combat is not bad also. It's very satisfying to crack skulls.

"The controls?"
The controls do allow for fun head-to-head, as well as a good feel in general. You know what you're doing at any time.

"The plot?"
The plot is one of the better points; the novelizations are good. The novel that connects Halo 1 and Halo 2's story is well thought out, and enjoyable.

Bungie made Marathon. They know what they're doing with story.

"The visials?
The visuals are about what you'd expect from a Geforce 2.5. Not as good as the new fancy Unreal engine or Half-Life 2, but certainly better everything released up until 2001 simply because the framerate tends to be steadier.

Most of the stuff I saw out on the PC in 2002/2003 didn't take advantage of bump mapping like Halo 1 did. Halo 2's a bit updated, but you can tell they were pushing the hardware to its limit.

"The levels?"
No, Halo's level design is pretty much the biggest pile of crap. The levels are the worst part. If they could get good level design, they would have the best console FPS on their hands.

Re:Halo strengths and weaknesses.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about you but the visuals sucked for me. I got really tired of textures constantly changing on the little cut scenes. Especially with distances of what I'd guess would be 10 to 20 feet in the game.

Not to flame

[Anonymous Coward]

Not meant as a flame, but the Future of the XBox 360 looks very much like the current XBox situation:

-Without a decent userbase in Japan Microsoft will have difficulties gaining Japaneese Developer Support; at best they can hope for is non-exclusive support from Japaneese Developers (with a few exceptions).

-Without exclusive Japaneese game developer support Microsoft will be lacking decent support in a wide rage of popular genres and franchises.

-Without a full selection of genres and franchises Microsoft will have difficulties breaking out of the 'hardcore/nerdy-teen' and 'sports fan' market into the much larger 'casual' gaming market.

-Without the casual market their sales will have great difficulty breaking past the 20 million mark worldwide.

Now, my personal expectations for the XBox 360 is that it's market will actually shrink as game developers start to narrow their development efforts to genres that are already popular on the XBox; that is, being that FPS/Racing/Sports games are popular on the XBox developers will only bother developing FPS/Racing/Sports games for the XBox 360 thus making the XBox 360 only all that apealing to people who only like FPS/Racing/Sports games. Had Nintendo decided against the Revolution Controller, I would have predicted the same fate for the Revolution; the controller, at least in the begining, will encourage a wider range of games which should make the platform more viable to everyone.

4 Months On

[MBCook]

I saw numbers somewhere (Kotaku? Gizmodo?) about how many units various consoles had sold 4 months after their launches (which is where we are on the 360).

The 360 has sold 600k. The DS sold 1,200k. The Dreamcast sold 1,800k.

Launch numbers aren't great.

Yeah, this is probably due to shortages. Just something I thought I'd point out as I found it interesting and I figured you guys would too.

Re:4 Months On

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing I don't get about the 360 is where all these people are who are supposed to want one. I do see the occasional desperate Xbox owner whose local stores aren't getting any restock shipments. But outside of the few hundred thousand people who have 360s and the small number of people who haven't managed to get their hands on one yet, who exactly is Microsoft counting on buying their console. Prices on eBay for 360s don't indicate any large demand.

I don't think I've seen any PS2 or GameCube owners ever mention any desire to buy a 360 outside of people with a ton of disposable income. That is 120 million console owners right there. Even large numbers of Xbox owners seem to have little to no desire to buy a 360.

I can't believe that there are tens of millions of people out there who have never bought consoles before who are going to suddenly by 360s. I can see that happening to a smaller extent perhaps with the Revolution.

I don't really see where Microsoft gets more than maybe 10 million or so, mostly former Xbox owners, buying 360s.

Re:4 Months On

[Saige]

Funny, the 360 hasn't even hit the 3 month mark yet. Besides, it's hard to compare launch numbers because the 360 did it differently. There were plenty of 360's made for Europe and Japan, and at least Europe is also completely sold out. But the sales numbers that are mentioned don't include there, they only compare in the US. I think I've heard that over 300k have been sold in Europe - this would mean 900k in three months - at least on track to match the DS.

Re:4 Months On

[chazbot]

The 360 was released November 22. Today is January 19. That's a couple of months short of four.

Re:4 Months On

[thesandtiger]

It's only been 2.3 months since the 360 launched. I'm not saying it'll sell 600+k more consoles in the next 1.7 months, but I'm pretty sure, if MS gets their distribution shit together they'll sell quite a few.

PDZ failings?

[misfit13b]

Hmm, I was under the impression from what I've read online (having not played the game myself) that PDZ came with a very good online experience.

I've gotten to the point where I only get games that my small set of friends (erm, "clan" -- can you still use that term if you suck?) are also willing to get, because simply, I ain't got the time to be wasting with sub-par online games. If what you're saying is the case, it looks like PDZ will be taking a lower spot on the prospective list. COD2 has already dissapointed in this regard, only to be saved by the campaign mode.

Re:PDZ failings?

[Saige]

PDZ is missing a LOT of things that I had come to expect after playing Halo.

You CANNOT play with a team of friends in ranked mode. All ranked team modes require playing with random other people. And considering that 6 out of 8 game modes are team based, that's a serious shortcoming.

No party system.

Only 2 teams per game, and your team is always green, and the other team is always red.

Game types with weapons spawning on the map only allow 5 different weapon types total. Non-weapon items like armor take up spots in this, too.

The pregame lobby is a UI mess compared to Halo.

The gameplay itself is decent, and it's been growing on me of late. And you can get together parties of friends, like that Activision disaster known as COD2.

The way I've always put it is that PDZ would be a great game... with about 6 more months of development work to finish it. Now, it feels like it's working hard just to be decent.

Re:The score so far

[Thag]

The thing is, they really coudn't wait, because they were losing money on every original XBox they shipped, with no end in sight.

They're probably still losing money on the 360 at launch, but they should be able to break even and get into the black in the long run. The PS3 is not likely to be able to undercut them on price like the PS2 could, because it is coming out a year after the 360, and because it has more expensive components like the blue-ray drive in it.

The Revolution is going to be cheaper, but it may not really compete with the 360, because it's so non-traditional in its design. It seems more likely to go its own way and complement the other two consoles.

Jon Acheson

Just wait...

[Sierpinski]

Before someone starts pondering the past, present, and future of the 360, how about we wait a while (maybe more than 2 months???) so the rest of the bad bugs and whatnot can be discovered. Has the scratched disc problem been fixed? I've heard about several problems so far with the 360, and I haven't heard of too many resolutions. Let it run for a bit before you decide its fate. Can you tell who's going to win the Boston Marathon 5 seconds after the starting pistol? (Ok, maybe you can, that was a bad example!)

Re:Just wait...

[aftk2]

Has the scratched disc problem been fixed?

What? The one triggered by users who re-oriented the console while it was operating? Yeah, I've heard they've fixed that bug, but unfortunately a pre-requisite patch fixing "Egregious User Error" has not yet been released.

Right.

[ShadowsHawk]

Greatest Franchises? I don't think two decent FPS's make it Zelda or Sonic.

Re:Right.

[BTWR]

Greatest Franchises? I don't think two decent FPS's make it Zelda or Sonic.

Yeah, and I don't think a few great 2-d games released over 10 years ago make it a zelda or a mario ;)

If its too much trouble...

[anti-human 1]

I'll go ahead and come over to your house and play marathon for you.

EGM bias

[wift]

I have mod points but had to put my opinion out there. I was amazed that Peter was interviewed by them since EGM are Sony and Nintendo fanboys. They are fair and balanced like Fox News. I have all 3 consoles so I don't consider my self a fan boy but it's obvious they hate MS and it shows.

Re:The score so far

[fwitness]

They *were* losing money? Last I checked, I saw no official announcement that Xbox1 production had ceased. That would be a disaster eh? It would be like MS said, hey, get your 360 now, cuz we're pretty much done with X1.

To me, that's the most dangerous thing MS has done, show that it thinks the usual console lifecycle we've all gotten used to should be a good year or two shorter.

Here's what I *don't* need: Upgrading my console more than my PC.

Realistic Weapon System?

[Swordsmanus]

"...and you have a realistic amount of them on you (2 max with a half-dozen grenades) when fully loaded."

Sorry to nitpick, but I'd say Soldier of Fortune's or Counterstrike's loadout restrictions are a little more realistic. Hell, even Dues Ex is more realistic given the kind of cyborg character you're dealing with. Let me illustrate. Why is it that in Halo, a pistol takes up the same inventory space as a rocket launcher?

Sure, Halo 2 half-addressed that with dual wielding, but it still was far from realistic. You still couldn't carry a large primary (rifle or larger), a medium secondary (SMG, shotgun, etc), and a pistol all at once unless you dual wielded. And if you carried a huge ass rocket launcher and a high calibur yet non-recoil sniper rifle, you'd move just as fast as if you were carrying one human pistol and one covenant pistol. And you could only carry those two pistols (three if you dual wield!), yet they take up far less space, use totally different means of storage on your person, and weigh far less than the rocket launcher + sniper rifle combo. There are ways to make carrying capacities in FPSs more realistic. Halo's method was just as arbitrary as Half Life's allowing players to carry ~10 different weapons with no restrictions.

Re:Realistic Weapon System?

[Inoshiro]

"Why is it that in Halo, a pistol takes up the same inventory space as a rocket launcher?"

Why is it, in Doom, I can run around with a chainsaw, rocket launcher, pistol, rifle, machine gun, chain gun, plasma rifle, and about 1,300 rounds for all these weapons combined?

You can pick nits, but it's far more realistic than most games.

Re:Realistic Weapon System?

[jericho4.0]

It's not a simulator, it's a game.

Re:Realistic Weapon System?

[Swordsmanus]

Then the parent shouldn't be using the term "realistic" in a positive manner.

Re:Realistic Weapon System?

[Swordsmanus]

Because it's a game. As I stated before, arbitrarily restricting weapons in a nonsensical way is just as bad as arbitrarily allowing every weapon in the game on your person simultaneously. Halo is not "far more" realistic than most other FPSs. It just uses a different method of weapon management than past FPSs that has its own flaws just like every other before it. That's it.

Past, Present, _and_ Future?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh well, two out of three ain't bad.