Slashdot Mirror
Is There Still Racism in IT Hiring Practices?
noahz asks: "Today [now three days ago] in the United States marks Martin Luther King Day, remembering the birthday - and legacy - of the great civil rights leader. It's been over 40 years since his march on Washington, back when IT was still in its infancy and was exclusively a white, male field. But, how much progress has been made in the IT world? I recently had a recruiter tell me that I would have no problem finding a job in the current economy - not because I am enthusastic, well-educated and have good experience - but because I am caucasian - 'white'. This particular recruiter insisted that his years experience has led him to this conclusion - but I wonder: what the collective experience of the Slashdot readership has found?"
I was hired by a dot-com at a job fair even though I had no experience. My boss later told me, he hired me because I was asian and wore glasses. So I suppose there are definitely stereotypes or racism.
We have a shop full of indians(big tech firm), and my boss pulled me to the side just today and asked me to make sure that I hired a white or a black guy for the spot that just opened up.
I plan to do just that.
So, there's racism in 2006 for you. Blacks and whites together, fighting for our jobs. BTW, we're white.
Age is a bigger issue.
I hear it all the time "We want someone young, energetic" - because old people are not worth the effort.
Accent can be a problem, but I don't think that this is in any way racist. If you can't understand the person because of their accent, it's going to be tough working with them. It doesn't matter what country they come from.
Hah! My first job out of college was tech support. And I forget how many people (women in particular) asked to be connected to a "real" technician. I even had one guy tell me he wasted his time talking to a woman.....
Genius is one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration, which is why engineers sometimes smell really bad.
Maybe the original poster jumped to conclusions. Maybe he was just a crappy worker. But, I can point out countless examples in my career where managers treat their minority employees differently because of fear of lawsuits or EEOC sanctions. Basically, when it comes to these cases, they are heavily weighted for the person lodging the claim and the company has to "prove" that there was no discrimination.
Many companies are scared shitless that they will be targeted under civil rights laws because they appeared to (but actually dont, they just hire the most qualified people who happen to be asian or white for the most part) discriminate against blacks or if they fire a black worker for doing poorly.
Our civil rights laws have brought alot of needed progress to society but they are a double-edged sword, in their current (and largely unchanged form). There is definitely a subculture of minorities out there who like to use their minority status as a crutch and leveraging tool in the workplace.
These claims are false.
They may or may not be, but citing a government publication stating how the act is intended to work, doesn't make a definitive case.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Age tends to be an issue because to older you get, the less bullshit you are inclined to put up with from employers for shit wages. Human Resources knows this, and so they go for the young and hungery employee who doesn't have many obligations beyond party money.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Yep.
My father was a programmer. He turned 55 in 2000; in the lead-up to Y2K he did pretty well, having skills with older systems, but after that...nothing. He was out of work for years before moving on to a different field (real estate.)
That made me look around the office. How many developers over 40 were there? Few. Over 50? One.
I decided to go back to school and get a job skill that can't be outsourced and (if I stay healthy) I can keep going into my 60s or later. (I'm still doing software part-time.)
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
My IQ was rated at about 190 when I was 12
I've compiled a list of websites that you may want to spend more time on than slashdot:
http://www.mensa.org/
http://www.cerebrals.com/
http://www.smartgroups.com/
http://www.iqsociety.org/
You may feel more at home there ^_^
*dons flaimsuit*
I've worked in IT, and because I can calculate multi-dimensional state tables in my head I can sometimes out route a router.
Give me a god damn break. If you experience a lot of friction dealing with other people in your professional life, it's because of crap like this stemming from your obviously overblown ego.
"I state the issue. They then rephrase the issue, adding something not really relevant to the issue but closely related to show how smart they are. I, out of politeness, say oh that's interesting, or some other meaningless drivel to show them that I too understand basic Calculus, OSI, or traffic law, etc. I then move on to state my idea for solving the issue."
No matter how smart you are, or how smart you think you are, you are never, never so smart that you are always right and don't have to listen to others. Going into a conversation knowing the answer means you're not really there. Not only is that rude, but it means if you're wrong you'll never know it. On top of that, people generally can tell (you didn't notice that because you weren't listening, right?) and won't be very happy about it.
I'm a consultant these days. I used to be pretty cocky, like I knew how to solve problems and those business folk just weren't as smart, but even someone as dumb as me figures out, after being thrust repeatedly into unfamiliar business situations (where the business people really do understand the problem domain better than me) that I don't know everything.
You sound like an interpersonal nightmare. I'd never want to work with a sysadmin who couldn't listen to the reasons he might be wrong. I'd much rather work with someone willing to work with the team, more interested in getting us all to the common goal than telling us how smart he is.
As for the racial thing, I know it exists,but my personal experience in IT and dev in NY is that it's been a meritocracy everywhere I've worked. One of the things, really, I've loved about the work. I've been on plenty of interviews where I didn't get hired, but absent feedback from the interviewer I can't see how I could ever make a statement as to why.
You know, you sound like you're a smart guy. The funny thing about this field (again one of the things I love about it) is how many smart guys there are in it. Whenever I start thinking about how smart I am, I meet someone smarter. As smart as you may be, there are smarter people out there. Unless you have recently won your third Nobel you ought to tone it down a bit, and think very seriously about what other people may have to offer you. Try listening.
You're story about people reacting to your idea likely has little to do with race and significantly more to do with either 1) poor management, or 2) your attitude.
;)
I'm white, I grew up on a farm, the son of a tech ed teacher. I grew up constant trying to learn the hows and whys. I wiz my way through logic tests, rebuild my own engines, remodeled my own house, solder my own electronics etc...
When I got out of the military, I was a slightly younger guy who thought I knew it all and could figure the rest out. And I ran into numerous situations like the one you described.
It actually turns out that I was just an egotistical ass hat. Cocky and arrogant coming off of my last military tour.
It took a couple years, a wife, a kid, and a hell of a lot of hard knocks, but my ego finally deflated and I find myself getting a long with most people much better.
Let's face it, no matter what their skin color, all assholes are brown on the in side
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Huh. Must be nice to be able to put your cultural identity in your pocket and fit in with the dominant culture once in a while. Some of us can't take off our skin colour. Having said that, if an employer doesn't want you because you're not white, it's not an employer worth working for. Be proud of your heritage!
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
Flamebait or troll or not, I accuse you of flagrant exaggeration, if not outright lying. Your use of language, vocabulary, and compositional structure is self-evidently sharply below that level. As is the vocabulary and compositional quality of your other recent posts, eight of the last ten of which scored 1. Your expository and vocabulary also jarringly conflicts with your assertion of "a nearly insatiable desire to read whatever I could get my hands on."
The point of which is, don't lie on this forum. Making a knowing transgression of risking off-topic for this reply or not, I dislike letting that by, and it taints the rest of your post, the meta-moderation of which I would suggest ought consider whether the moderation points were deserved.
As an aside, also, the vast majority of IQ tests, including upper range IQ tests, are not designed to accurately test above approximately 170. Test calibration above that level is very challenging. Try and remember such tangential details the next time you fib, for better general congruence and background.
Sigh.
In inferiority complex, perhaps.
In the future, try posting without repeatedly referencing how smart you are, and how your brilliance is oppressed by vast forces opposing you. Your posts will implicitly convey deviation from the norm, if they can in fact exhibit such, without needing attempts at neon signage.
"The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, preserved their neutrality." -Dante
Is this a bubble?
I was hired for a job. The company admitted I was more qualified than the guy I replaced, but said HR would not let them pay me more that the previous guy.
Why? Becuase he was black and they feared that if I made more and he found out, he might sue them.
Interestingly enough I hired to Desktop techs to help me out. Both were equally quallified.
The HR department said I could pay the guy $32K and I should pay the girl $39K.
Their reasoning was that girls made less then men in the IT department and they wanted to boost the salaries of women to make them even.
Any system where pay is determined based on race or sex discrimminates regardless of the reasons.
Respect the Constitution
Nonsense! It's a great measure of how good a person is at doing IQ tests...
http://outcampaign.org/
I met a white guy once whose name was Darius. About my age (early 30s now). His dad was a history buff and named him after the Persian king. He worked in IT.
... I'd say it still happens, yeah.
Once, for his job, he had to go be a liason for a brief period at another company. As it happened, this other company was one where he had applied for a job but hadn't gotten an interview the previous year. He liked the job he ended up getting, so he had no hard feelings.
Somehow the fact that he had applied at this other company came up when he was on-site. The person he was working with was actually one of the people who had reviewed his resume. "Oh, yeah, I remember you!" he said. "See, we thought you were black because of your name. Ha ha! If we had know, we probably would have given you an interview."
It's only one data point, but
jf