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The Whys of MMOG Archetypes
heartless_ writes "The decision to use an archetype class system in Vanguard : Saga of Heroes has been met with mixed feelings by the fanbase. Some like it; others dislike it, and still others just don't know what to think. Gamergod has a rundown on what's involved in an archetype system, as well as the pros and cons from both sides of the game's design." From the article: "The balancing of classes is simplified because the system introduces a distinct measurement for comparing classes within an archetype. For example, if the Cleric and the Shaman belong to the archetype whose primary role is to heal, the developers can use this to crunch the numbers and ensure both classes are equal in this ability."
I'd love to see a game where the numbers simply aren't available to the players.
Game designers know that even if they hide the numbers, the players will deduce them. They simply have too much vested interest to NOT know how a change in equipment or class or skill or... will impact their gameplay.
It's a nice idea, but unfortunately, something as easy as statistical sampling (trivial, with the help of computers) reveals all.
What I almost like better is the Zelda model. If I hit something with my sword, it gets hurt a predictable amount - the same, every time. If I hit it with a different weapon, it gets hurt a different amount. Different critters respond differently to different weapons... There is no "chance" associated with that - no numbers. The problem is, that devolves to a "twitch" style game - very, very hard to pull off in an MMO. =(
Education is the silver bullet.
What I almost like better is the Zelda model. If I hit something with my sword, it gets hurt a predictable amount - the same, every time. If I hit it with a different weapon, it gets hurt a different amount. Different critters respond differently to different weapons... There is no "chance" associated with that - no numbers. The problem is, that devolves to a "twitch" style game - very, very hard to pull off in an MMO. =(
I would like to point out a game called Planetside which effectively does what you describe. It is a twitch style game, it's an MMO, and there is no chance involved at all. The rules are all pre-determined. You aim counts.
If you would like to try it for free for a few days, you can use their 7 day trial, and in February they are going to start a program where you can play for one year for free up to a certain rank. Lower rank doesn't make you less lethal though.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
I think it's worth pointing out that Shadowbane did this same thing several years before EQ2.
...hmm...interesting). At level 10 you chose your class, and at level 20 you could apply "disciplines" (like subclasses). Not only was there a lot of diversity between classes there was a lot of diversity within classes.
Ok, ok, yes, I am just saying this because I liked SB (I stand by my belief that it would have been one of the best MMOs ever if it could have gotten past the technical/lag issues). You could start out as one of 4 types (fighter, mage, rogue, or healer
Now EQ2 may do it better than SB did (there was not enough diversity in disciplines and some were just plain worthless, some classes were ultra-gimp, there was no reason not to pick certain races for certain classes), but it wasn't the first. That being said, I certainly hope that EQ2 does decently enough that more games come out with this style of class structure. One of my big complaints about WoW is that there are only 8 classes and not a huge deal of diversity within those classes. Talents help some (there's a huge difference between a Soul Link/Afflic lock and a SM/Ruin, for example) but some classes don't have much choice (e.g. Shamans and Mana Tide) if they want to do raids.
The laws of probability forbid it!
It's worth noting that there are really only two differentiation points in EQ2 - your initial selection of archetype and your level 10 specialization. The level 20 specialization is based entirely upon which faction you are. A scout can chose to become a bard rather than rouge at level 10, but the distinction between a dirge and a troubadour depends entirely upon being 'good' or 'evil'.
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