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Open Letter To Star Wars Players

Sony Online Entertainment CEO John Smedley has posted an open letter to the Star Wars Galaxies Community, trying to start a constructive dialogue with the players. He discusses, honestly I think, many of the reasons behind the still much-maligned New Game Enhancements. From the post: "One last thing I'd like to discuss in this explanation is the business end of things. Many of you question the logic of the decision to do this NGE.. stating that many of the existing players will quit because we're changing the game so much. From our standpoint we have to look at the game for the long haul. EverQuest is will be 7 years old on March 16th. We HAVE to think that long-term. With the game the way it was we knew we would never be able to attract enough people to really keep SWG viable as a business." The players, they do not seem to be in the spirit of cooperation. Here's hoping something good comes out of it.

27 of 113 comments (clear)

  1. Thank the force by TheMotedOne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A few years ago SWG was a really fun game with lots of diversity, now that Jedi are running around everywhere and the game has lost every scense of what would actually be Star Wars, I am glad they are making a few changes.

    1. Re:Thank the force by Rei · · Score: 4, Funny

      Long term planning this is. But wise for the bottom line it is not. When seven years old your MMORPG is, have as many players you will not. Mmmmm? The path to the Dark Side -- stronger it is, you ask. No. Quicker. Easier.

      Reconcile with your players you must.

      --
      FSB hits! FSB hits! Your democracy dies. Do you want your possessions identified?
    2. Re:Thank the force by eclectro · · Score: 2, Funny

      Reconcile with your players you must.

      Somebody showing up in a princess lea outfit might do it for me.

      Oh yeah, opposite sex please.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    3. Re:Thank the force by Jace+of+Fuse! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is perhaps the funniest, on topic, no BS, overall best Yoda-speak post I have ever seen.

      Kudos.

      --

      "Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"

      Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
    4. Re:Thank the force by dzfoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think he meant "Opposite Sex".

      So many people imagine artificial semantic differences between certain synonyms without considering reading a dictionary for their correct usage, it really irks me.

      From Merriam-Webster:

      Main Entry: sex
      Pronunciation: 'seks
      Function: noun
      1 : either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as male or female
      2 : the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral characteristics of living things that are involved in reproduction by two interacting parents and that distinguish males and females
      3 a : sexually motivated phenomena or behavior b : SEXUAL INTERCOURSE

      Hint: What you carelessly call "Sex", is properly called "Sexual Intercourse", or coitus, which is the act that puts into effect the properties and mechanisms of sex of two individual organisms duly empowered.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    5. Re:Thank the force by Golias · · Score: 2, Informative

      So many people interchange 'Gender' and 'Sex' freely without considering correct usage, it really irks me.

      People do that with synonyms. They're wacky that way.

      People who are picky about not using the word "sex" to mean the classification of males and females (almost all of whom are "transgendered" folk, it seems) are even more tedious than the psycho-nerds who feel compelled to point out that the made-up jargon word "virii" is not a correct latin plural.

      Usage defines language. Get over it.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  2. A viable buisness plan.. by SpaceballsTheUserNam · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Listen to your customers. Or maybe I'm just being naive.

    --
    \.
    1. Re:A viable buisness plan.. by SB5 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I will admit they did seem to listen to the customers in a half-assed fashion, even PRE-CU... The problem was the understanding what the players were saying...

      Players would have a problem with a profession, and then SoE would go and nerf it. Then they neglected professions (smuggler, commando), and not fix specials. And feature creep. Every month they would announce something new going into the game. I quit when I found out about cybernetics because many other bugs had gone on fixed and many other ingame systems and mechanics could use better polishing.

      --
      If what you are reading sounds funny, or sarcastic, lame, or stupid
      it is because it is supposed to be. just laugh
    2. Re:A viable buisness plan.. by Syberghost · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem with "listen to your customers" is that there weren't enough of them to sustain the business. They were attempting (I leave the judgement as to whether they succeeded to others) to listen to their POTENTIAL customers about why they weren't buying.

  3. Look at the date by VGPowerlord · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This letter is dated November 25, 2005. It's January 26, 2006. Do you see the problem here?

    --
    GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    1. Re:Look at the date by MadJo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Every post in that thread apparently was written at the exact same time ... 11-25-2005 09:38 AM

      Do you see your problem there?

  4. Uh, the "Letter to the Community" is from 11/05 by AudioEfex · · Score: 3, Informative
    Why is this being posted now? This "letter" was posted two months ago by Smed. It's right there, dated 11-25-05 in the link...

    Maybe this should go in the "never too late to bash SOE dept.?"

    AudioEfex

    1. Re:Uh, the "Letter to the Community" is from 11/05 by AudioEfex · · Score: 2, Insightful
      As a long-time (since beta) SWG player, I welcome the rumored change in the timeline. It's not going to erase anything to advance the story by adding content. While the NGE was unaccaptable in many ways, mostly due to it's slimy surprise to the community one day after they charged credit cards for expansion pre-orders, in other ways it was necessary. Did they trunicate too much? Yes, but some of the changes were for the better. Many were not.

      As Smed and others have said since in so many words (which is, again, why this outdated letter is pretty useless to discuss in and of itself at this point), they simply aren't concerned about current players because we simply weren't enough to keep it going. It was get a bigger audience that dwarfs the current one, or it was going to end period. Was it right? No, but I don't think they had a great deal of choice in the matter.

      That's why I support a time period change whole-heartedly; it's now or never, and it's either gonna be great or the game is gonna fold. Either they will capture the period of ESB (which is where we would be going, as SWG currently takes place between ANH and ESB), the Star Wars era that many consider the best of the classic trilogy, or they will fail. If they fail, at least it's better than stagnant and stale.

      The absolute #1 error SWG has made from the begining is ignoring what people really want from a Star Wars game - to experience the enviornments and scenarios that were in the films. Take Jabba's Palace, for example. It's one of the most iconic Star Wars locations, and it does it exist in SWG (one of the only true locations that appears in one of the films). However, it's a place where newbies run through doing bugged missions until you get to speak to Jabba (actually, his Protocol droid), get full access to the Palace...and are done. No reason to return. It's a ghost-world.

      That's why I'm hoping this new combat system will truly fufill the promise of being able to beef up this kind of content instead of constantly reworking three dozen professions. I'm hoping they put the content in that makes it worth it. I'm not holding my breath, but for now they still get my $14.99 a month. A major content addition like changing the timeline may just be what the game needs to give it a boost. Lord knows it can't get much worse...

      AudioEfex

    2. Re:Uh, the "Letter to the Community" is from 11/05 by Golias · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I never understood people who think of their character levels as "accomplishments" that they had to work for, as if having a high two-digit number next to the word "Level:" on your character profile indicates anything other than an abundance of recent free time to click on cartoon pictures of monsters.

      Did you enjoy playing the game up to that point? If so, you're not really losing anything important when your character is re-writen/nerfed/deleted/whatever. If you didnt' enjoy playing, then you were a fool to spend all that time on it, because your "accomplishment" is utterly meaningless outside of the animated chat-room your character resides in.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  5. Alienating and attracting players at once? by CurbyKirby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How do you attract players when existing players are jumping ship? Many players start a MMO because they have friends who are already playing. The point of a MMO is as much the community as it is the dev-created content. If you don't know anyone in the game, you could certainly make friends, but I think most people start because existing friends are already playing.

    At one point, I would have recommended to anyone looking to start playing a MMO to take a look at SWG. It had player cities. It had huge planet maps nearly free of barriers (unlike games like EQ2 that have many cliff walls and other barriers). It had an innovative profession system where you could multiclass as much as you liked. It had problems and shortcomings, but the overall experience was positive, and I was lucky to be in some PAs (a.k.a. guilds) and cities that were mostly free of griefers and immature dolts.

    Gradually, everything changed. They killed off my server of choice (Test Center). They killed off my professions of choice (Entertainer, Creature Handler, Melee Combat Professions). They turned combat from a community-supporting system where you could talk while fighting to yet another first-person shooter.

    I didn't join because of the Star Wars universe. I didn't join because of the game's features. I joined because some friends played it and liked it. Only after I joined did I learn to appreciate its unique features that were then gradually taken away. At this point, I would not recommend that anyone join the game. It's not only the changes that they made but also the way they made them that changed my mind. (Example: announcing NGE changes right after an expansion ships, so that players would rush to buy the expansion. They offered refunds only after the massive outcry against that devious tactic.)

    SOE, if you really think you can alienate your original fanbase and attract a new one, best of luck. But even if you are successful, what then? You will have a community of twitch gamers, focused entirely on combat, that don't understand what a unique idea SWG was.

    --

    --
    "Extra Anus Kills Four-Legged Chick" -- Headline
    1. Re:Alienating and attracting players at once? by SB5 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you took away the Star Wars from Pre-CU Star Wars Galaxies, and had another sci-fi/fantasy universe and other stuff, it still would have been a successful MMORPG. The main problems were the feature creep, and the bugs existing months, and years after being in game. Some were fixed to come up in later patches.

      The HAM system was also poorly designed.

      Although I am a Star Wars fan, I have to admit, the game's underlying mechanics were amazing, crafting system has yet to be bested. Player cities were pretty fun and the ability to interior decorate your home was pretty dynamic. The problems for this game have been well documented elsewhere, the problem with CU and NGE were also documented.

      EVE Online is now where I play, and Star Wars Galaxies could have some of the game mechanics that EVE has, well they would have been successful 10x over by now probably.

      --
      If what you are reading sounds funny, or sarcastic, lame, or stupid
      it is because it is supposed to be. just laugh
  6. No problem by jpardey · · Score: 2, Funny

    It says "Is will be" in the text, so it's all good.

    --
    I have freaks! I did something right...
  7. I tried playing this game when it first came out. by SetupWeasel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It was buggy as all hell. There were impossibly hard, aggressive enemies waiting at the edge of the most peaceful cities. Peanalties for dying had to be suspended indefinitely, because everyone was dying all the time.

    It's too late to redesign. You lost me and manyyears ago. Don't pretend this is an Everquest. Stick a fork in it... it's done.

    Here are some tips for next time:

    1) Beta testing, it's not just for consoles anymore.
    2) Continuously pissing off people who pay monthly dues is a bad strategy. Listen to complaints, give thoughtful arguments for your position, and offer compromises.
    3) Two Words: Gungan Hunts.

    This was my first ever MMORPG, and oddly enough, it was the only one that had enough non combat things to do to keep me interested and allowed freedom of movement at an early stage. If it were polished, I might have stayed.

  8. It was required that he say this by MilenCent · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's exactly what a guy would say attempting to get people to overlook the incredibly crappy decisions his company has made.

    They HAVE made crappy decisions, that cannot be argued against. Either they made them with NGE, or they made them originally and the NGE was required to fix them. However you look at it, it is their fault.

    The guy's entire statement reeks of insincere appeasement. They're upset to have removed creatures from the game and will be put back in soon? Then hold off on the NGE until they're ready! They have to plan for the long term? Sure, that explains why they pissed people off by giving them absolutely no warning and released a full, pay expansion a couple of days before NGE hit! They can't put up an unsupported server running the old game because someone might find an exploit? Surely they could just release security fixes for it and not introduce new content! The game wasn't working as a business before? It is not the job of players to be understanding of the corporate behemoths to which they've paid hundreds of dollars just to have much of their work pulled out from under them!

    The problem is that, to its core, Star Wars Galaxies under NGE is a different game than Star Wars Galaxies. Even the words behind the acronym, "New Game Enhancements," seem calculated to get people to swallow a pill. They didn't "enhance" the game, they made a "new game" that just happens to use the resources and maps of the old one, and completely replaced the old game with it.

    It seems to me that this is just about the most unforgivable thing a MMORPG company could do that isn't actually fraud. Maybe I misunderstand the situation, or my argument is faulty? I kind of hope it is, for Sony's sake. Someone, respond to me on this. Tell me how I'm wrong. I want to be wrong, dammit!

    1. Re:It was required that he say this by SB5 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nope, sorry cannot tell you that you are wrong. Because you are correct.

      They took an old game, changed it completely but left the same maps and resources, and NPCs, and few other things. But they changed how the players interact with the enviroment completely.

      --
      If what you are reading sounds funny, or sarcastic, lame, or stupid
      it is because it is supposed to be. just laugh
  9. Misrepresentations by Solitude · · Score: 4, Interesting

    SWG *was* an awesome game.

    The problem with SWG was the balance, bugs, and lack of fresh content. Certain classes had overpowering abilities that needed to be reduced. Bugs needed to be fixed. New content needed to be added.

    Everybody wondered why these issues weren't being addressed. They were needed for the health of the game but they were being totally ignored.

    Now we know why. Instead of fixing bugs, balancing, and creating new content, they were too busy writing a new overhaul. WTH? If they would have invested the time they spent in the Combat Upgrade (CU) overhaul and the NGE into addressing those issues, they would have never been in this situation.

    Just think of how much time they spent in secret working on those two upgrades. All that time that could have been spent enhancing the game instead of rewriting it. Just stupid.

    I quit after the first CU because of this. I tolerated the problems thinking they were working on fixes as they said they were, but then they come out with a revamp and a realized they squandered all that time. No thanks, I canceled.

    1. Re:Misrepresentations by BloodAngel_Au · · Score: 2, Funny

      And now that SOE manage The Matrix Online, with its 'content' (Live events, as was promised to further the story) on hold (because SOE won't pay for a dedicated Live Events Team), and now we are getting a Combat Upgrade (which was only announced after the SOE move)...

      I'm so scared!!!!

      Coming for Xmas: The Matrix Online: NGE... now you too can start as Neo!

  10. In other words, "We made a failure worse" by garylian · · Score: 4, Interesting

    SWG was pretty much a failure. It could and probably should have been the hottest game ever made. The whole SW franchise was getting a kick in the pants with new movies after over 20 years of nothing, yet still remained a huge fixture in people's minds. The only way this game could fail is if it sucked. Much like City of Heroes couldn't really fail. Who hasn't dreamed of playing a superhero as a kid?

    Whoops! SWG failed. It was horrible at startup, being quite possibly the buggiest "gold release" I have ever seen. It was corrupt, as players were exploiting the crap out of it for a while. It was boring for a lot of people, with a common theme of people leaving the game being "I never thought it would be like THAT! It sucked!"

    Everyone that I know that bothered to purchase it (after hearing the consistently bad reviews from beta testers, as well as the not-so-hot reviews from some game magazines) quit the game within the first 3 months, it was obvious that the game just wasn't that good. Sure, some people will like it. Some people will like a game, no matter how bad it is, or what it's theme is.

    So, SoE realized it blew it, and then spent all this time trying to come up with a way to save what should have been the golden MMO game for the decade. They saw the PvP in WoW and other games being more "in your face, action packed" than what they offered, so they tried to throw the same type of thing at SWG.

    The bottom line is, when a game is completely borked, a revamp isn't going to draw old customers back, or get you new ones. It is going to just piss off the few remaining players you had. And SoE did just that.

  11. Oh really? by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We HAVE to think that long-term.

    I can assure you, good sir, that as a non-customer, nothing could have possibly cemented my resolve to never try for your services than such widespread and notable dissent among the current playerbase.

  12. Again? by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Insightful
    For everyone wondering why the letter is from november and only on slashdot now, it isn't. It is a dupe.

    But what the hell, something has changed between now and then. All of us had the chance to play the free trial. Ex-players even got two weeks of free play on our old characters.

    The old SWG is claimed by Smedley as being to complex, with to many proffesions for people to figure out and a combat system that was to complex and not action packed enough.

    Overall it was felt that SWG was too complex a game.

    So was this true? Depends I suppose. Who are you talking too? A person who is confused by patience or an ex F16 Fighting falcon player? There are people out there who find the manual for Diablo a real thick brick. Other people ain't happy until they know every detail of whatever virtual thing they control. Actually fuel mix ratios in a cessna at altitude X and temp Y nuts.

    SWG has 34 proffesions but most of them were easy to grasp for someone with an IQ. How hard is it to figure out Medic, Sword master, Pistoleer. If you can't grasp that Medics heal, Sword masters fight with swords while pistoleers use pistols your IQ must be in the single digit range. In binary.

    Perhaps it was the fact that you had Medics AND Combat Medics AND Doctors. Medic was the base proffersion from wich you could advance to Combat Medic and Doctor. Well yeah this is complex I guess. For a six year old. Most people playing the game seemed able to figure it out. Most, not everyone however. RTFM Syndrome reared its ugly head in SWG like everywhere else.

    RTFM. You know what I mean with that don't you. If you are online you will come across countless people who ask inane questions they could easily answer themselves by reading the GODDAMN FUCKING MANUAL but wich they can't be arsed to do. On slashdot this is called "Read The Fuckin Article" where a poster ask a question that is answered in the article posted.

    Simply put there will always be a group who is very focal screaming that it is to complex, I seen this in every game. You probably can't get much simpler then Quake and I seen people begging for help in there.

    There is a group of people out there that will never be able to deal with anything wich requires them to read more then one word. Not because they lack the IQ but because they just can't be bothered.

    Is this really a group you want to market a game too? You can do it offcourse, it certainly is a big group but you will alienate the group of players who can read a manual without throwing a hissy fit.

    And that is SWG's NGE biggest failure. It took a game from the crowd that could read a manual and turned it into a simpleton game. How simple? Well so simple that instead of mixing your own character from various proffesions you now do not have any choice to make in your chars development. You just level up in the proffesion you chose at the start. Every level 60 jedi will have exactly the same skills. Yuck.

    There are plenty of "dumb" MMORPG's out there. All the korean ones for a start. Perhaps the truth is that only the "dumb" MMORPG's can survive.

    SWG was played by an audience that by and large liked to play a complex deep game where you had a large amount of freedom to play the way you wanted too.

    The problem was that SOE never really managed it right. It shouldn't have launched until they had removed a lot of the bugs. This killed the game far more then it being considered to complex, but offcourse they cannot say this. Smedley blames all of SWG failure on complexity not on SOE releasing a bugged product on an audience fed up with buggie MMO games.

    SWG was complex and deep enough to allow you to be your own character. Well up to midlevel anyway. Then all of a sudden everything started to crash. Why? The "highend" content. Mini expansions like the Death Watch Bunker and The Corvette (dungeons) were unplayable for a lot of proffesion mixes. Creature Tamers were out because pets cannot be summoned inside. Scout/Rangers trap skill did not work on

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Again? by Sage+Gaspar · · Score: 3, Informative

      "It started perhaps with the Composite armour. This armour was so though that it made all other armour useless. But it carried a huge penalty, so they introduced doc buffs to counter them but made those so powerfull that people turned into one man armies able to solo almost everything. So high end dungeons added had enemies so though that had 100% resist on every attack except one, wich had a 90% resist. From there it just went to hell.

      If only they had never added that super armour. We would possibly now have a game that was open ended and they could have spent all the time fixing the actuall bugs instead of constantly trying to balance a bad desicision.

      Tips to anyother game developers. Do not introduce a piece of equipment that is so leet that it instantly makes everything else worthless."

      This, my friends, is a concise summary of why SWG failed. Devs did not, never, ever, think about what would happen if someone managed to make top-end gear or a min-max template. Hell, they made it possible to make a max-max template. And they had absolutely no idea which nerfs were appropriate.

      The poster above outlined the composite armor/doc buffs thing. Players were able to wear this 90% resistance armor and build a template to max out defensive mods, which meant that literally I could sit there firing at the player for an hour and not do any damage. This went on for untold amounts of time. And one week they accidentally bugged it so that one attack in two profession lines, called Scatter hits, ignored these defenses. They weren't overpowered, it just meant that with me, having maxed out accuracy and eating accuracy food, at optimal range, laying prone, I could eventually kill one of these stackers. What happened? Fix went in for *that* bug a week later. There are untold amounts of imbalances like this which went unfixed for untold amounts of time while the devs implemented (boring) race tracks and dungeons that were useless to anyone but the maxers.

      Also, the effects of these buffs on the game. Since they buffed everything instead of nerfing players, it suddenly became that you couldn't do anything without doctor buffs, entertainer buffs, and food. This is a lengthy ass process. Imagine you enter PvP and five minutes later die, which is not unreasonable. You now face something like fifteen or thirty minutes of healing, rebuffing, waiting for your stomach to empty so you can eat more food, getting back your entertainer buffs, etc. Fighting without these became impossible in PvP.

      And, finally, PvP. Supposedly one of the core focuses of the game, the Galactic Civil War. And PvP a year or two in was essentially what it was when it started -- you could build faction bases, but they served no purpose except for you to defend. So you spent a ton of time grinding and grinding to build up enough faction to buy a big faction base so that you could defend it. And people did it, because there was no other PvP content.

  13. People still play SWG? by RoboRay · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I quit a couple of months after it launched, when I found that Holocron and the rest of the Devs had been lying to us. All through beta testing, they were promising this fantastic, dynamic, and unique for each character system where you could become force sensitive. I specifically asked Holo on the beta forum "It's not going to be something lame like having to master randomly chosen professions, is it?" and he told me no, that's not what it would be. Well, a few months into the live game when they finally started revealing info on the jedi, guess how you became one? Yep, you had to master a couple of professions randomly selected for you by the server. I cancelled my subscription that day and have never looked back. I don't appreciate being lied to and applaud the approaching death of SWG.