Hopes Rise for RIM

sbowles writes "U.S. District Court has set Feb 24th as the next date for a hearing to consider a possible injunction against Research in Motion. Despite this, RIM shares are rising on news that the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), under pressure from crackberry-addicted Congressmen, may be moving to invalidate NTP's patents. As a contingency, RIM has announced that they have a software workaround that will allow service to continue uninterrupted."

Comments

Good move for the wrong reasons.

[grub]

news that the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), under pressure from crackberry-addicted Congressmen, may be moving to invalidate NTP's patents.

While I agree that NTP's case is bogus, unhappy Congressmen are the wrong reason for invalidating the patents in question: it hoists them above the rules everyone else has to live under.
I think most would agree that far more people are disillusioned about the entire patent process. Apparently, though, nothing will come of that until some government-types are inconvenienced by the system.

Re:Good move for the wrong reasons.

[Ubergrendle]

Given the immediacy of the threat to RIM service, I think this scenario is the best that can be hoped for -- political intervention, either via legislation or influence over the Patent Office. Theortetically the Patent Office has the mechanisms already in place to deal with this issue, but the bureacracy is just slow to take effect...

As bad as patent law has become, it can't be overhauled overnight; a substantial commitment to a thorough review must be made, where the interests of inventors, intellectual property owners, and the citizens of the US are addressed. Not to mention all the other countries with whom the US has intellectual property treaties -- they're affected too.

Re:Good move for the wrong reasons.

[terrymr]

The judge refused to stay proceedings until the outcome of the patent office review. This is the reale nonsense of the case ... RIM may have to pay billions (or maybe many millions) to stay in business only to have the patent office invalidate the patents after judgment has already been entered against RIM.

Re:Good move for the wrong reasons.

[mavenguy]

I don't know what behid the scenes political pressure has been applied (and I doubt that anyting new in the last few weeks has had any effect), but there has been a reexamination (actually two that have been merged); anyone can see what has been going on by checking out 90/006492 in the public PAIR system.

Briefly, there have been two non-final rejections, the last one mailed on November 30, 2005, and all the claims under reexamination (I haven't checked if there are other claims not included that would remain if the rejections are sustained) have been rejected. The only reason the last action was not made final was that additional rejections were made based on prior art made of record between the two rejections.

I don't think an recent publicity about a shutdown of service after the appeal from the District Court was shot down has had any effect on the reexam procedings; I haven't followed this case, however, and don't know what outside influence was brought to bear on the PTO to order the rexams.

Re:Good move for the wrong reasons.

[LWATCDR]

"unhappy Congressmen are the wrong reason for invalidating the patents in question:"
That is actually how the system is supposed to work.
Congressmen are supposed to represent the people in their district. When something happens to make the people unhappy the congress person from that area are supposed to do something about it.
To be honest this is the first patent case that affects a large number of people directly. If you notice the halt of service will not effect Federal Blackberries so the users in congress will not be shut down. Maybe they don't know that :)

Are they hiring?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because I'd really love to have a Rim job.

If they have a software workaround

[winkydink]

then why not implment it and end the whole mess?

Re:If they have a software workaround

[thaerin]

Either that or they don't truly know how it'll work in the real world with hundreds of thousands of users. Sure, working in a controlled environment is fine and dandy to test things, but surely they can't be positive it'll work across the board.

Re:If they have a software workaround

[slash-tard]

It would require reloading/patching all devices and the server software on all customer servers.

Re:If they have a software workaround

[ihaddsl]

I'm guessing the 'workaround' is inferior in some respect. otherwise, they would have switched already instead of playing chicken with NTP.

Notice how they don't say much about what the workaround is (other than to say it requires a software update on the blackberry handhelds which they'll preload on new blackberry's if required)

something's rotten

Darn...too late to buy shares now

[ip_freely_2000]

"As a contingency, RIM has announced that they have a software workaround that will allow service to continue uninterrupted."

Dad was telling me to buy shares in this company. I should have listened.

Workaround...

[Shadow Wrought]

So what happens to SCo's case if the work around is accepted and validated by a higher court? That's right- they'd be hosed! Well, more so, but it will be interesting to see how this case plays out and the ripples that it causes.

Invalidation irrelevant

[blair1q]

The invalidation would be irrelevant and unnecessary if RIM has workarounds.

They're not making any money from already-sold devices.

And they'll be able to continue selling new ones.

They'll spend a few bucks selling firmware upgrades, if that's even possible.

Or they'll sell "upgraded" devices (maybe at a slim discount) to current customers.

Now, that might invite a class-action lawsuit from Blackberry owners claiming they were defrauded by someone selling pirated IP, but when has that ever cost any company what it was really worth to the class?

At worst, the judge will order RIM to pay a reasonable royalty. Shutting down the network would not be a legal option.

Now, where's my broker's number? I need to text him a buy order....

Re:Invalidation irrelevant

[fuzzy12345]

The invalidation would be irrelevant and unnecessary if RIM has workarounds. They're not making any money from already-sold devices.

"Officer, I'm not speeding. As you can see, we're both here at the side of the highway, at a dead stop."

Crackleberry-addicted Congressmen

[digitaldc]

under pressure from crackberry-addicted Congressmen, may be moving to invalidate NTP's patents

I don't know about you, but I don't want any addicts making my laws.

How is RIM relevant to me?

[pestie]

Am I the only person here who's never used a Blackberry and never known anyone who's used one?

Yes, I know some genius is going to reply "Yes." and probably get modded +5, Funny for it. But I'm serious. I've never seen one of these things in use.

Re:How is RIM relevant to me?

[imadoofus]

Yes.

Re:How is RIM relevant to me?

[SeekerDarksteel]

Am I the only person here who's never used a Blackberry and never known anyone who's used one?

Yes.

Yes, I know some genius is going to reply "Yes." and probably get modded +5, Funny for it.

I hope so.

Re:How is RIM relevant to me?

[Quintios]

I didn't know if you were asking for a response of someone that uses one, but I do, and I love it.

The main reason I like it so much is that all my contacts from Outlook are wirelessly sync'd and that it does simple email. In my line of work I need to keep in contact with many people and the ability to respond to emails quickly is important. It's not important for me to send an email with really fancy formatting, and if I need to send an attachment I'll simply respond "I'll get that to you a bit later." (For the record, I'm a project manager.)

I use email and the cell phone/contacts portion of the Blackberry and little else. One of the nice features if that you can use the click wheel to select different portions of emails or 'you missed a phone call' notes, and it will tell you who that person is if you can't tell from the email addy or the phone number. I can immediately tell if I need to contact that person quickly or if it can wait. Outstanding.

It's not complicated. It's not buggy. You don't need to install any third party software. (By the way, anyone that uses their handheld to work on Excel spreadsheets is crazy, but the BB will do that.) It just works and works well. I broke my first one and about cried. I got another tho.

I owned a Palm IIIx and an IPAQ. Unfortunately it's hard to draw conclusions because neither of those had an integrated cell phone, but between the three the Blackberry is the best.

Re:How is RIM relevant to me?

[MyDogHasFleas]

Yes, I know some genius is going to reply "Yes."

Close, but it wasn't a genius... it was a doofus

Re:Ok I admit

[NickV]

They're much more than normal cells... They're push based email devices, so there's no need to poll for email or "check your inbox". It gets your email almost as soon as it shows up in your email box at home/work. Very powerful, and very useful. You're always connected (and like a phone it can vibrate or ring whenever you get an email.)

Additionally, you can send, accept, etc meeting requests, check other people's calendars, etc. In a large enterprise environment, its pretty indispensible.

Re:Only /slightly/ off-topic

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

"Crackberry" refers to the device. The term is used because so many of the users act like crack addicts - they can't go anywhere without their Blackberry and they stop whatever they are doing (talking, eating, etc.) the second the freakin' thing vibrates to let them know they have email because that email is far far more important than any other person they might be interacting with at the time. Some of the criticisms could be directed at cell phone users too because they often exhibit some of the same characteristics. People that get a Blackberry act like they can't live without it. Personally, I hope I never get one and at present, my company sees little value in it because we have cell phones they use to reach us 24x7 in emergencies.

Blackberry = Packet Radio = 1980

[Deeper Thought]

NTP filed their patents in the 90's.

Hams have used Packet Radio since 1980. Packet Radio is wireless transmission of ASCII messages, which is what RIM provides via Blackberry receivers. How is this not prior art?

What is packet radio: http://www.choisser.com/packet/part01.html
Wiki on Packet Radio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_radio

I wish RIM would fight

[fuzzy12345]

Not that this will happen, but...

If RIM were to say, on a Monday morning, "Due to patent litigation in the US, all Blackberry service will be turned off immediately, indefinitely" we'd see patent reform by Wednesday.

Just as "hard cases make bad law," sometimes there's a confluence of defendant and public (uh, congresional) interest which cause a certain set of facts to be uniquely positioned as a spur to reform. I don't want exclusions for federal workers, I want this case to be used as a blunt instrument to get congress to address the problem. UNFORTUNATELY, what would be best for everyone (IMHO) isn't what's best for RIM, and I doubt they'd take one for the team.

Broad Patents vs. Narrow Patents

[Andy Dodd]

I believe NTP's patents are on a much narrower definition of the way RIM's system works.

i.e. they haven't patented sending text messages between devices, they've patented a very specific method of making email available to a mobile device. I don't recall, but I believe the patent deals partially with the corporate firewall problem.

In short, whether it is valid or not, their patent does not apply to packet radio, nor can packet radio be considered prior art for the system.

A good example. Joe Caveman invents the wheel in 500 B.C.

In 1990, John Doe invents a specific tread pattern for a rubber tire that has some Really Nifty Benefit. It's based on the wheel, but enhances it. John Doe can't patent the wheel due to prior art (Joe Caveman in 500 B.C.), but John can patent his specific enhancement of the wheel.

Re:Ok I admit

[URSpider]

Yes, it is. The big deal is that they sell an additional piece of hardware/software that your admin installs inside your firewall, which bundles up all of your corporate e-mail and sends it out to the device. Add that to the included readers for most popular office formats, and the easy-to-use keyboard, and it becomes a mobile office.

Keep in mind that, for most people with firewalled email servers, a device like this is the only way that they can have remote access to their e-mail, if their sysadmin supports it.

This probably doesn't seem like a big idea to all the uber-geeks out there, but it's practically a miracle to salespeople and middle management types who can't configure a mail client on their own.

Shares didn't rise because of USPTO

[pdschmid]

From one of TFA:

RIM shares were up almost one per cent on Friday trading on the TSX. Analysts and fund managers who hold RIM shares say its looks increasingly likely that RIM will settle its ongoing patent dispute with NTP Inc. of Virginia, rather than see the service blacked out.

Also, one of TFA includes no information that would justify the comment that the USPTO is under pressure from congressmen to speed up its process of looking into the NTP patents. From the TFA:

The U.S. represents about 70 per cent of the BlackBerry market, and the prospect that a judge would issue an injunction closing down the service has business executives and political leaders wondering how they will get along without the devices. The U.S. government has even joined the dispute, arguing that BlackBerry's are vital to national security.

Instead, there is an analysis into the patent dispute in one of TFA:

Right around the time the parties will be meeting in Judge Spencer's courtroom, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) may be moving toward a final resolution of the NTP patents at the heart of this dispute. Last December, the office issued another set of preliminary rulings that found NTP's patents to be invalid. NTP's response is due by Feb. 28. A report this week by analysts at investment banker Goldman Sachs noted that "NTP must prove that these patents contain new inventions on several key patents by Feb. 28 or face the PTO permanently rejecting the patents," the authors wrote. "If the PTO issues final rejections on any or all of the five NTP patents, this could change the course of the lawsuit. To the extent that patents are ruled invalid, we believe that it is likely that this would be considered by the District Court."

Fake Blackberry TV Commercial

[Kenshin]

Crack-berry people should be admired - they aren't tied to their computers all day, just to do email. They are out and about enjoying their time, getting more done outside the office with these things. Frankly anyone who can actually keep up to date, reply to messages, and who can take care of business with these things is a hero in my books.

Riiiight...

Meanwhile, this is how the REST of the world sees Crackberry users:

http://www.cbc.ca/mercerreport/video_player.html?b lackberry (WMP or QT)

Re:Fake Blackberry TV Commercial

[Kenshin]

Laugh all you want. My 'CrackBerry' lets me operate out of the office better than any *insert device here* I've ever tried.

Well, if you're using it as an anal probe, then I suppose it's better than a laptop...

RIM's hands aren't clean.

[emil]

I don't know much about it, but this guy's comment doesn't make RIM look likely to be a good poster boy for patent reform.

Funny but NSFW

[SuperKendall]

Warning that there's a bit in the middle there that is NSFW - may want to think about who you forward it to.

Hilarious and dead-on though!

eh

[Dr Floppy]

its not just congressmen and senators its also their staff and the lobbyists and reporters in DC that live on blackberries. I worked in the senate last semester and saw it first hand, RIM service in DC is indispensable and may bring both legislative houses to a crawl if shut down.

Wrong

[acoustix]

Here's some info on BB security/encryption:

http://www.blackberry.com/products/software/server /exchange/security.shtml

-Nick