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Physicist Claims Time Has a Geometry

sciencenews writes to tell us that a physicist at Stanford has just recently published a peer review website for several physics lectures focusing on a single underlying idea that "time is not a single dimension of spacetime but rather a local geometric distinction in spacetime." The science is presented quite clearly and originally uses GPS systems as a point of focus. From the article: "Not too long ago, people thought the Earth was flat, which meant they thought that gravity pointed in the same direction everywhere. Today, we think of that as a silly idea, but at the same time, most people today (including most scientists) still think of spacetime as if it were a big box with 3 space dimensions and 1 time dimension. So, like gravity for a flat Earth, the single time dimension for the 'big box universe' points in one direction, from the Big-Bang into the future. A lot of lip service is given to the idea of "curved spacetime", but the simplistic 3+1 'box' remains the dominant concept of what cosmic spacetime is like."

75 of 447 comments (clear)

  1. More information on this theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Is available at the author's website, timecube.com.

    1. Re:More information on this theory by Syberghost · · Score: 2, Funny

      Heh, thanks for beating me to it.

      However, I'm surprised we're not going into a flamewar over John Titor in this one, since we've got a good opportunity.

    2. Re:More information on this theory by mulciberxp · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Dr. Gene Ray --- is the only authoritative Time Cube expert, at www.timecube.com." Doesn't this make Dr. Gene Ray an EVIL SINGULARITY!?

  2. proof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I always knew my high school geometry teacher came from another dimension.

    1. Re:proof by corngrower · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm wondering how many more 'hands' my next watch will have. It took two hands when time was in just one dimension.

  3. time curves by Hao+Wu · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Would this allow for a Mobius?

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    1. Re:time curves by Sique · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The special thing about a Moebius ribbon is the fact that it doesn't have orientation, left and right are the same. The fact, that it is a closed loop is less interesting. There are also unlimited mathematical objects with Moebius property.

      --
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  4. Lorentz transform anyone? by ubiquitin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I agree that there aren't a lot of people who intuitively reach to the Lorentz transform to explain the progression of time, but there are plenty of obvious reasons for that. Not sure it takes a Stanford physics prof. to make what is essentially a epistemological point though.

    For kicks, check out one way to visualize the spacetime wheel.

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    1. Re:Lorentz transform anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, I don't think any serious GR-aware _physicist_ would think that in curved spacetime that time is somehow one global axis any more than left/right or up/down is - such coordinate systems are only locally valid, and physicists talk openly of your time axis being tilted more and more toward the singularity so that it lies in your inescapable future if you're unfortunate enough to enter a black hole. Maybe it does take a Stanford professor to make it clear outside physics circles, or something. It's either blitheringly obvious to you already, or you're generally ignorant of GR and it's just one more thing on a very long list of things you don't know about modern physics.

    2. Re:Lorentz transform anyone? by ZombieWomble · · Score: 4, Interesting
      In the derivation of the Lorentz transformation (and consequently, in how most people envision 'spacetime'), we have one time 'direction', which is the same at all times, in all places - all that changes in a relativistic picture is the projection of the spacetime motion onto the time axis.

      Conversely, what I think this professor is suggesting that it's not quite so simple as dealing with a single axis, but rather a collection of them, which would mean it's not possible to consider our motion through time with regard to one solitary axis, which would have an effect on many aspects of relativity (although not in the Lorentz derivation shown at the link in your post, I don't think, since in that case our spatial and time axis are simply defined as being the directions of relative motion anyhow, so there this point is moot).

      Of course, I could be completely wrong, as it's nearly 2am, I haven't looked at his slides, and my report is turning my brain to mush. I'll have to have a look in the morning when it works again.

    3. Re:Lorentz transform anyone? by bobhagopian · · Score: 5, Funny

      Agreed. I wondered why a physics professor would take the time to make an obvious and meaningless point such as this (I'm not trying to be mean here, just honest). But a Google and Stanford directory search reveals that he is NOT A PROFESSOR (which he never claimed, Slashdotters just assumed). He is an "Affiliate", which probably means that he's an employee. In fact, it appears that he is a patent examiner from Oakland, CA.

      I was pointing out his employement as a patent examiner as an explanation of why he might not know all that much about general relativity, but I just now realized how ironic that is.

    4. Re:Lorentz transform anyone? by Jerf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Where you go wrong in your post is you miss the key point of relativity. It is true that the Lorentz transform tells you how to go from one time dimension to another. What is not true is your assertion that the initial time dimension is privileged in the transform. The transform is fully symmetric, and in math, that's not just the observation that the two directions merely "look" the same, it is the observation that they are so thoroughly the same that there is no way to tell them apart. (Symmetry arguments are very a powerful tool in the mathematician's toolkit, one of the fundamental ones.)

      What this professor is claiming is quite frankly relativity 101. For instance, it is directly addressed in Section 1-1 of Reflections on Relativity; right there in that last diagram is the idea of two distinct time axes with the only distinction between them being which one you happen to be the observer of. We're just barely out of the Preface, and in fact this book happens to develop the idea rather more slowly than some other references!

      It takes a real genious to recognize that there is more than one time direction, and that it is "truly true" and not just mathematical sophistry or convenience. But the name of that genious is Albert Einstein, not Alex Mayer.

    5. Re:Lorentz transform anyone? by ZombieWomble · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Ah, I apologise for the fuzzy wording in my post, but that wasn't precisely the idea I was trying to communicate. Although it's now even later, I'll try again before I get some sleep.

      I did not mean to assert that time experienced by objects was identical in all frames, nor that some frame had a particularly special interpretation. When I referred to a single time axis, I meant the single time term in the 4-vector (x,y,z,t). This is obviously valid for the two particle system used in the typical derivation of the Lortenz transformations since regardless of the motion of the object/observer, we could reduce it to a single space-like dimension and a single time-like dimension (x,t) (and, obviously, as you mentioned, identically valid co-ordinates (x',t') for other frames which can be viewed as a transformation in the direction the axes point).

      However, his suggestion of a temporal geometry seemed to imply, on my first reading, that he was suggesting additional temporal dimensions - (x,y,z,t1,t2,t3) for example - which would add complications to situations where we could not transform the system we were considering to a two-dimensional one.

      But having re-read what he says, I fear you may actually be correct in your observation, and that he is merely presenting Special relativity as his own, new, remarkable idea. A shame such things can manage to get book deals (although that really should've been a clue, I suppose). Maybe when I'm more awake I'll watch his presentations to see if they actually have any substance.

      (And sorry about the 'professor' confusion, I had misread which section of 'visiting staff' he fell under on the stanford website...)

    6. Re:Lorentz transform anyone? by Stalyn · · Score: 4, Informative

      What are you talking about? The Lorentz transformation has only one degree of freedom in the time dimension. We call it the future or the past. This guy is suggesting that time has more than one degree of freedom. Which is nothing new...

      --
      The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
    7. Re:Lorentz transform anyone? by GRW · · Score: 2, Informative

      I found this reference :
      Multidimensional Time Simplifies General Relativity
      Authors: Mayer, Alexander
      Affiliation: MIT
      Journal: American Physical Society, Second Meeting of the Northwest Section 2000 May 19-20, 2000 University of Oregon Eugene, Oregon, abstract #CP1.013
      Publication Date: 05/2000
      Abstract
      The Minkowski metric is interpreted to imply that time is multidimensional. Multidimensional time simplifies the derivation of equations describing gravitational relativistic phenomena and challenges interpretations of the theory in the strong field limit.

      and this one
      Title: On the Cause of Geodetic Satellite Accelerations and Other Correlated Unmodeled Phenomena
      Authors: Mayer, A. F.
      Affiliation: AA(Affymetrix, Inc., 3380 Central Expressway, Santa Clara, CA 95051 United States ; amayer@alum.mit.edu)
      Journal: American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2005, abstract #G41B-0363
      Publication Date: 12/2005
      Origin: AGU
      AGU Keywords: 1229 Reference systems, 1243 Space geodetic surveys, 6964 Radio wave propagation, 7504 Celestial mechanics, 7969 Satellite drag (1241)
      Abstract Copyright: (c) 2005: American Geophysical Union
      Bibliographic Code: 2005AGUFM.G41B0363M
      Abstract
      An oversight in the development of the Einstein field equations requires a well-defined amendment to general relativity that very slightly modifies the weak-field Schwarzschild geometry yielding unambiguous new predictions of gravitational relativistic phenomena. . .etc.

    8. Re:Lorentz transform anyone? by cygnus · · Score: 4, Funny
      It takes a real genious to recognize that there is more than one time direction, and that it is "truly true" and not just mathematical sophistry or convenience. But the name of that genious is Albert Einstein, not Alex Mayer.
      That's an interesting theorem. May I suggest another... One may not become an arbiter of genius until one learns to spell 'genius.'
      --
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    9. Re:Lorentz transform anyone? by n54 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "I was pointing out his employement as a patent examiner as an explanation of why he might not know all that much about general relativity, but I just now realized how ironic that is."

      And in other news it's discovered how come so many poor patent applications are approved... :)

      (apologies to A. F. Mayer as I have no reason to suspect he's not good at his job, but if they're all vying to be the next Einstein it does explain things)

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    10. Re:Lorentz transform anyone? by logicnazi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You are missing his point (as the post right below you suggests). The first claim he makes is that there is a transverse red-shift from gravity in addition to the normal one predicted by GR.

      In other words not only is there are redshit if we fire a lazer up into space from the earth (i.e. light leaving a gravity well) but even if we just shine a laser from one point on the earth's surface to another there should be a small redshift as well. His argument is that one would expect to see such a reshift in a accelerating frame because the light is traveling farther than it would at constant velocity.

      Personally I'm skeptical of this argument at the moment because whether or not one would see a redshift is going to depend on the effect of that acceleration on the clocks. As the rocket speeds up the time dilation from SR increases as well, perhaps the right amount to compensate for the increased difference. At the very least the thought experiment doesn't produce a clear result (and it is always possible that multiple solutions are compatible with it).

      As an aside the question of whether there is a global constant progression of time or it differs from location to location is just a matter of naming. The scientific community has decided to call the effects from acceleration/velocity changes in the passage of time because such a description seems to be more productive and simpler. However, one could describe the same phenomena by saying time progresses at the same rate everywhere but all physical processes slow down/speed up. Or to say it another way the Lorentzian theory of an ether with shrinking rulers and faster clocks is experimentally equivalent to SR and the same thing should be possible to do with GR (so long as there are no closed curves in time e.g. time travel)

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    11. Re:Lorentz transform anyone? by kalidasa · · Score: 3, Informative

      Alexander Mayer is a visiting scholar at the Physics department at Stanford, which means that he is likely either an adjunct professor or a post-doctoral student, though he may be a PhD candidate. If you simply looked at the pages for the Physics department at Stanford, you'd have found that easily, rather than confining your search to the university's directory.

  5. The Number of the Beast by ePhil_One · · Score: 2, Informative

    Robert Heinlein used this as the central idea of his book "Then Number of the Beast" in 1986 The Number of the Beats

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    1. Re:The Number of the Beast by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Then Number of the Beast

      His universe had 6 totally straight dimensions with no curvature (at least to the extent it was important to the story. This article talks about curvature in the time dimension, which was pretty fundamental to relativity 100 years ago, so this is not a new idea.

      I don't think RAH's idea of rotating to make use of unused dimensions would work because most of the theories currently around which use extra dimensions assume that we can see the extra dimensions, but don't use them because the universe is closed and very short in that direction.

      Also I think the waffle factor got to be a bit too much in that book. Friday was his last great book, IMHO.

    2. Re:The Number of the Beast by UriahZ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's my perspective that Heinlein was expressing some complex ideas about the nature of reality and time in a (more or less) approachable manner. It's well known that he was friends with the likes of Robert Anton Wilson at the time (the late 70s). Incidentally, the book was first published in 1979, not 1986, as stated. In Number of the Beast, he expresses the idea that there are three dimensions of time, a concept not unknown among the leading edge of magickal theorists as a method of explaining the ability to change the future.

      According to the Chaos Magician Peter Carroll, the way magic works is thus: at any given point, there are infinite 'alternate dimensions', with the 'present' being the one that we generally experience, necessarily created by the three dimensions of time, resulting an infinite number of alternate universes existing concurrently with this one, but that we can never interact with. However, there is a cone of possibility extending into both the past and the future, of different possible pasts and futures that could conceivably have created this present or conceivably result from this present. The trick to getting magick to work is in judging accurately the cone of possible realities and working towards the potential future that you're after. Most people in this society call that working towards an end. Of course, most people don't know just how wide a range of possible futures there are, and disbelieve in the power of mental effort to effect change by itself, and thus have little to no perception or experience of reality bending to their will.

      Heinlein's book expresses the idea of what you might find yourself interacting with if you were able to transfer into those other concurrent realities. His concept of world-as-myth is mostly just a pleasant flight of whimsy for a professional author, based largely on the general concept of magick-- that belief creates reality. Yet also he's expressing the concept that the author is both tapping into a world already in existence AND creating that world simultaneously.

      Undoubtedly this sort apparently paradoxical thinking will be found to some degree confusing and wrong-headed, yet sufficient meditation on the subject will invariably reveal its pure logic. Though I don't feel that either Heinlein or Wilson (or Carroll) really effectively described what's going on, it's easy enough to grasp ahold of the same intuitive Truth that they all wrapped their books around.

      Is this new idea actually new? Decidedly not. The question is whether it'll garner any greater degree of support in this round, imo.

  6. hmm... by bobhagopian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps someone should tell him that general relativity has already been invented. Physicists know that time has geometry---it is, after all, a part of spacetime, which has geometry. With regard to his claim that GPS has unexplained anomalies, he may be right. However, GPS is based on the Schwarzschild metric, which assumes a non-spinning, point-like mass. The earth is neither of these. Accordingly, there will be small corrections due to the combined effect of earth's spin and its density profile. At present, we are unable to calculate those corrections (we've only solved some important special cases, because the math is so hard), but they almost certainly explain the GPS deviations.

    1. Re:hmm... by ZombieWomble · · Score: 2, Informative
      Physicists know that time has geometry---it is, after all, a part of spacetime, which has geometry

      Wasn't this the point he was trying to make? People are very familair with the concept of multiple spatial axes which can lead to spatial geometry (and hence spacetime geometry) but that time is taken as a single, fixed axis, which he thinks isn't the case, which would lead to differences in how many aspects of relativity would have to be interpreted?

      Once again, as I mentioned in a post I made above: It's late, and I haven't read his presentations, so I may have completely missed his point. If it is as mundane as you suggest, then this post can be ignored and written off as a sleepy error, and I apologise for the inconvenience.

  7. Beats per Beast by drgonzo59 · · Score: 2, Funny
    So what is the optimal BPB for any given beast if the spacetime is curved? -- 666, of course!

    :-)

  8. 1+1=2 solves problems, too... by iamelgringo000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The novel idea that there are an infinite number of time dimensions in the Universe revolutionizes gravitational theory and much of modern science with it. A number of outstanding scientific mysteries are definitively solved, including observations that lead to the concepts of 'dark energy' and 'dark matter'.

    A number of outstanding scientific mysteries are also solved with my new unpublished theory that 1+1 = 2. Doesn't mean that the idea holds water, though.

    I think that many problems in academia are because of "publish or perish" advancement. I think this is an example in point.

  9. Stepping sideways in time... by vistic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If time has many dimensions then I wonder why we perceive it to go forward only (though at different relative rates depending on relative speed). The reason why we perceived gravity to point down only was just a matter of not being able to see the big picture, although I would have thought more people would have noticed the Earth is round sooner, the curve is clearly visible from most mountaintops. So what's the big picture we need to see in order to see more dimensions to time? How do we step back and notice the slight curve in the horizon?

    It sure seems like time goes forward only, from my own day to day observations. My mind can't even comprehend what going another direction (except for "backwards") would even mean as a concept.

    1. Re:Stepping sideways in time... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It sure seems like time goes forward only, from my own day to day observations. My mind can't even comprehend what going another direction (except for "backwards") would even mean as a concept.

      The "arrow" of time is a consequence of the second law of thermodynamics: physical systems tend to go from ordered states to disordered ones. That's why, for example, you see the glass fall off the table and break, but you don't see the pieces jump from the floor back to the table and reassemble themselves. Most equations in physics work perfectly well with time going in either direction; thermodynamics is an exception.

      I'm not sure I'm ready to swallow the idea of multidimensional time -- I'm still not even sure what one-dimensional time is for, although I think physicist John Wheeler said it well: "Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once."

      --
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    2. Re:Stepping sideways in time... by c_forq · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would have thought more people would have noticed the Earth is round sooner, the curve is clearly visible from most mountaintops

      I've never understood this argument. I mean in the way past you would be familiar with hills, and familiar with mountains, familiar with valleys, and other such features. One would not be too familiar with globes, and any planets one is aware of appear to be flat discs in the sky. Wouldn't it be more logical to blame the curve on such things as hills or valleys, which are known things, then conclude a globe, which isn't well known?

      --
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    3. Re:Stepping sideways in time... by MickLinux · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Having read enough of the article (more specifically, the large PDF file linked to at the bottom right), I can say that his idea is that locally, time points in a single direction, much as gravity does. But elsewhere, time points in a different direction.

      I can't say whether I agree or disagree with him. I'd have to see his maths.

      If I did, I'd have to conclude that I couldn't say whether I agreed or disagreed with him -- I'd have to understand his maths.

      If I did that, I probably couldn't say whether I disagreed or agreed with him. I'd only be able to make strange aardvark-like noises.

      However, as for my own current understanding of time, I'd have to say that time appears to be a log of the order of interactions, and secondary derivative interactions, and so on... thus making it locally constant, and globally pointless.

      --
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    4. Re:Stepping sideways in time... by lawpoop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, you could say that "space is just nature's way or keeping everything from being in the same place". That doesn't tell us anything about space.

      It might be that from a different perspective, everything can be 'happening' at once, so to speak. Some number of years ago, pretty much everyone thought that the earth was flat, and the celestial bodies rotated around it on fixed spheres. Turns out, no one knew what the hell was going on. Maybe we have a gross misunderstanding about the basic nature of time. This might help us in our temporal existance in organic bodies, but it doesn't necessarily have to be an accurate model of reality.

      You're not ready to accept it, and that's good. We can't believe any new crackpot theory that comes along. However, we can't assume we do currently have the right idea, either. We have to be willing to give new ideas a chance.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    5. Re:Stepping sideways in time... by n54 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Since there are no reasonably permanent irregularities such as hills and valleys on the oceans"

      Sorry, I apologize in advance because I do agree with you but that statement triggered the nitpick in me *can't resist* :)

      You (and other Slashdotters) might very well be aware of the following and it is not in any way intended as any form of criticism. I sincerely apologize for any wrongful or lacking details (should be plenty of those), I am not an oceanographer and do feel free to correct me if wrong.

      It's funny since there actually are hills and if not exactly valleys then at least depressions on the oceans due to both varying gravitational influences both internal (reasonably permanent) and external (cyclic) as well as differing precipitation and evaporation rates (fairly permanent though sometimes irregular and/or cyclic).

      So the ancients would actually be right in thinking like you say although at least somewhat wrong as well (but as you mention they had other methods anyway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth).

      But you are completely correct. Once again sorry I just had to get it out of my system lol :) *hangs head in shame*

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    6. Re:Stepping sideways in time... by kevlar · · Score: 2, Informative
      If time has many dimensions then I wonder why we perceive it to go forward only (though at different relative rates depending on relative speed).

      How exactly would you perceive time as moving forwards or backwards? Time could very easily move forward and backwards, you just wouldn't be able to detect it. If you could reverse time while a person was drawing a picture, you'd see that with each reversed second that data is erased from the finished product. The perception that time moves forward for us, may simply be a side effect of the fact that we retain data about previous interactions, but have this lack of data about the future that slowly gets sketched in during the present. So time could very well move forwards and backwards, indefinately, but you would only perceive its forward motion because as a function of time, the data does not exist yet.

  10. As Ford Prefect said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so."

  11. Warning : possible silly science by Gromius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not meaning to troll or anything but this has quite a few of the silly science traits. Not saying its junk but a healthy skeptical approach is necessary here.

    Basically if it was the genuine article, I would expect the website to list his position with Standford (he appears not be facutly) and his previous work. I didnt see that. The power point presentation has all the signs such as lots of pretty graphs and pictures which "prove" this (although admittedly this is better than most) and a lot of big words. What I would expect to see is a bit of hard maths and maybe one example, he's coming on far too eager. Also he focuses on what it fixes, what does it break? I want some predictions for experiments to measure. Its easy to explain one or two effects with a theory, the real test is what does it predict. I would also expect a link to a preprint explaining this and its abstract. I would go so far that any serious scientist would post a preprint on xxx.lanl.gov as the first step of going public.

    I'm very doubious about any werid and wonderfull theory coming from somebody who is outside the world of science, as theres a lot of chafe out there. Just go the poster session of the APS annual meeting to see what I mean. Okay its helpfull to keep an open mind, Einstein came from the outside with his really werid seemly crackpot theories but that happens rarely.

    Now just to point out I'm not saying its junk, I havnt read it yet, just saying it appears to raise of a few of the warning flags.

  12. Science vs. Engineering by MarkusQ · · Score: 4, Funny

    In my experience, scientists who work with such issues are quite clear on this point (and, so far as I can tell, have been for eighty some years).

    But for other sorts of scientists (e.g. biologists), engineers, and the rest of us, who only need to calculate things to five or ten decimal places or so, assuming that the time points in the same direction throughout the area of interest (and generally that space is flat and such) is reasonable--so reasonable, in fact, that we'd be nuts not to work with that as an assumption.

    If I'm tracking the migration of some sort of beetle or planning a system of trusses to support a load or deciding if I should walk or drive to the store for milk, I would have to be mad to start out treating spacetime as a fine-grained network of plank-scale events with information flow between them determining the local geometry of space time (and thus the direction of time). Likewise with the effects of nearby astronomical bodies--if they were big enough and close enough to seriously distort spacetime I'd have a lot bigger problems to worry about. On average, to the level I'd ever need to deal with in these sorts of cases, it is now and the future is coming up later and the past is what already happened.

    --MarkusQ

  13. Flat Earth by pinr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Not too long ago, people thought the Earth was flat" It's a common misconception and almost modern myth that people in the recent past believed the earth was flat. The truth is that it was generally accepted by most learned people that the earth was spherical from the 1st century onwards and many argued so much earlier. You can read more about this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_earth

    1. Re:Flat Earth by Theatetus · · Score: 2, Interesting
      (Though he underestimated the size of the Earth, at least he knew its shape.)

      Really? I don't remember his measurements in his writings, but two generations before him Thales had measured the diameter of the earth within a few percent of our modern measurements. In fact, when Columbus was convincing the Spanish to fund his voyage, he had to lie to convince them that the earth was smaller than it actually was.

      I don't think any culture that had a concept of "gravity" (even though Aristotle thought it was an inherent downward tendency of heavy objects, rather than a mutual attraction) that didn't also understand that the earth is roughly spherical. Hell, if you have sailboats it's almost impossible not to notice it.

      --
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  14. Revolutionary stuff by f97tosc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Reading his paper/presentation it seems like he is throwing out the theory of relativity, and most of modern astrophysics.

    I am a bit skeptical towards those who make revolutionary claims like this and publish it to the general public instead of in scientific journals.

    Tor

  15. Did you even read the book? by karmaflux · · Score: 2, Informative

    Multidimensional representations of time do not get you to Oz. "Pantheistic solipsism" does, according to the book. The central idea of that book was that the world was all myth, and as such there's no reason you can't hop from myth to myth, as long as your particular myth was written by someone who will script you to do it. The parallel universes were only parallel in that they were all represented in works of fiction.

    --

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  16. Is the theory valid?.. by XdevXnull · · Score: 2, Funny

    Only Time will tell...

    teehee~ (sorry.)

    --
    "I'm a Laver, not a Phyto[plankton]"
  17. damn it, no one ever thought the earth was flat! by mickyflynn · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.bede.org.uk/flatearth.htm -- This is one myth that really needs to die! Even more so than that Betsy Ross was involved with the American Flag.

  18. direction(s) of time by bcrowell · · Score: 5, Informative
    I admit I haven't read every word of his two massive sets of lecture slides. He seems to be trying to make the case that various anomalies in astronomical and geodetic data point to something wrong with general relativity. That would be cool, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and although we know that general relativity is not the correct theory of gravity at the Planck scale, there's every reason to believe that it's correct at the classical scale. If you want to read about tests of classical general relativity, check out the book Was Einstein Right? by Clifford Will. He discusses various alternatives to general relativity and how they've been tested.

    There is definitely a good case to be made that the past-versus-future arrow of time is not fundamental. Basically our psychological sense that the past is different from the future comes from the direction of the thermodynamic arrow of time, but the second law of thermodynamics doesn't come from the basic laws of physics (which are essentially time-reversal symmetric) but from the boundary conditions of the universe: for some reason unknown to us, we had a low-entropy big bang. The meaning of "past" is really "that way to the big bang."

    It's also probably true that in a complete theory of quantum gravity, the picture of three space dimensions plus one time dimension (3+1) would break down completely at small scales. The whole idea of distance and dimensionality is probably a large-scale approximation that loses its validity at small scales. There is a strong argument to be made that for fundamental reasons, spacetime must be discrete, not continuous, at the Planck scale. The only people seriously trying to construct discrete theories of quantum gravity right now seem to be the people doing loop quantum gravity (not string theory, which uses a flat 3+1 background of spacetime). For a good popular-level account of this kind of stuff, see Smolen's Three Roads to Quantum Gravity. In loop quantum gravity, they are able to construct an infinite set of possible universes (each one is a type of knot), but the problem is that none of them can be proved to resemble flat 3+1 spacetime, even asymptotically. In other words, there's no way you can even take this tangle of events and figure out whether it has anything like time and space that you can define on it. It's like being a flea living in a world that consists of threads woven together. On your scale, can't be sure whether it's a one-dimensional piece of yarn, a two-dimensional piece of fabric, or a three-dimensional wad of wool.

  19. Actually... by RandomPrecision · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...people never thought the world was flat. For millenia, we've noticed that you see the top of a ship in the horizon before the rest of it, which was attributed to the world's spherical shape. One of the great Greek mathematicians also accurately determined the circumference of the Earth within a couple of miles, if I recall.

    1. Re:Actually... by GKThursday · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Flat Earth theory did not come until after the Protestant Reformation. Pre-reformation, the "Christian intelligencia" was made up of St. Augustine, St. Aquinas, St. Anselm, and those who studied their works. Both Augustine and Aquinas believed what Aristotle said about science, and Aristotle said the world was a sphere. Even in the beginning of the reformation, Luther and Calvin both accepted Aristotle. But, about a century after the reformation, Protestants started using the Bible as a scientific text, and some decided that the Earth must be flat.

  20. Re:Maybe time is Spherical by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 2, Funny

    When this story gets duped, I'll be looking for this exact same comment.

    And my response to it.

  21. Cohesion of forces ... by willtsmith · · Score: 2, Interesting


    Unless you're editing a movie, it really doesn't make sense considering time as a an axis. It's almost as if time is a cohesion of forces expressed cumulatively across all forces in the universe. As objects move, the relative difference in forces expresses a change. That is time.

    So perhaps time would be best understood not as a straight line, but as water sloshing around in a bathtub.

    Another aspect of space-time may be a non-uniform fabric. We understand gravity as a curvature of space time. Perhaps there are multiple space times expressed via the three of the fundamental forces. Different fundamental particles are either affected or immune via these overlapping space-times. Particles affect one another via strong nuclear forces. These particles in turn affects the behavior of the whole as expressed across the three space times: gravity, electro-magnetism and weak nuclear.

    Those were my thoughts. :shrug:

    --
    -------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
  22. Close by jd · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Time is generally regarded as a "special case", in that it is not possible to move backwards in time, or rotate an object such that the time axis is pointing along a space axis and vice versa. Well, almost. I'll argue that it does actually allow the latter, just not in any trivial case.


    Spacetime perceives time as a one dimensional vector that is orthogonal to all other vectors. Because relativistic equations for time, distance, mass, etc, use a sqare root function, you get imaginary distances and imaginary time when an object exceeds C. Usually, an imaginary quantity means that you're looking at the wrong axis.


    (Trivial case in point: when solving a quadratic equation, if the parabola doesn't intersect the X axis, you will get a complex number. If you break that down into real and imaginary components, the imaginary components correspond to the displacement in the Y axis for that solution's real component value in the X axis.)


    Ergo, if a tachyon exists, it would experience a spacial axis as "time" and the time axis as space, UNLESS "time" is not a single axis, in which case all bets are off.


    In consequence of not having a telephone-number IQ, I can only speculate wildly, but I'm going to guess that the relativistic equations do indeed refer to some measure of bleeding between space and time and that no further dimensions are required - for GPS or for any other phenomena governed by relativity. (Superstrings being about the only exception I can think of.)


    I personally think that part of the problem is that time IS regarded as "special", whereas perhaps it would be better if it were regarded as special "only as far as absolutely necessary". To the extent that specialness is an extra parameter, you want to eliminate all extra parameters as far as possible (and no further).

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Close by jd · · Score: 2, Informative
      The equations are symmetric, so you can treat antimatter travelling in one direction as being mathematically the same as normal matter travelling in the opposite direction. (In the case of radioactive decay, in order to preserve momentum, you have to have EITHER an antineutrino being emitted OR a neutrino of exactly the same spin being absorbed.)


      This leads to the "obvious" conclusion that you should be able to significantly accelerate nuclear decay by emitting neutrinos of just the right spin. (Now all we have to do is figure out how to generate neutrinos!) It should also be possible to reduce (but not totally suppress radioactive decay) by shieling out all incoming neutrinos, as that would eliminate one possible decay path.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  23. I have seen the light! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I was brought up in a conservative, FSM-fearing family. All my life I believed that the FSM was the one and only divine creator, and that only through His Word I could reach salvation (stripper factory and beer volcano)

    Yet, today, as I read the teachings of Dr. Gene Ray for the first time, I finally saw the TRUTH. I have been lied to all my life but my anger only feeds my love for the Cube. We are all sinn^H^H^H^H stupid and only through the glorious Time Cube can we reach the ultimate, 4-corner, polar smartness.

    Thank you /. for leading me to the path of enlightenment.

    1. Re:I have seen the light! by smittyoneeach · · Score: 3, Funny

      I fear no Finite State Machine!

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
  24. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  25. I'm convinced... by Eric+Damron · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well I read the article and went through the power point presentation using Open Office :-)

    I must admit, I'm convinced that time is different depending on where a person is. I know it for a fact 'cause where I'm sitting it took FOREVER to work through that presentation! Ugggghhhhh....

    --
    The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
  26. Re:lipservice to spacetime? by NumbThumb · · Score: 2, Informative
    there is no "time" separate from "space"

    ...that's like saying ther's no "up" separate from "east". The real question is if they are orthogonal.

    --
    I have discovered a truly remarkable sig which this 120 chars is too small to contain.
  27. Re:The implications by thrillseeker · · Score: 2, Funny
    we have 2 or 3 dimentions in time, we'd be able to move backward, up, down, left, and right in time -- people would be able to switch between several "tracks" in time.

    This might work in theory, but I've never observed it.

    What? You've never experienced deja-vu? That's what happens when you see the same cat twice, or something like that.

    What? You've never experienced deja-vu? That's what happens when you see the same cat twice, or something like that.

  28. Looked familiar by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Funny

    Thought I saw it on an old bottle of soap.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  29. Lecture2Signed, page 25 by Sunlighter · · Score: 5, Informative

    Jump to page 25 of the second set of slides, where the author shows two time vectors at an angle to each other. If you have two observers, one with each time vector, then each observer thinks that the other is slowed down. Each sees redshifted light from the other.

    This angle between time vectors can be caused by gravity or by the curvature of the universe.

    In the gravity case, it is used to explain discrepancies in all sorts of measurements, from the Pioneer spacecraft, to the changes in the orbits of various celestial bodies, to discrepancies in the GPS, to the apparency that a U.S. atomic clock and a French one will each think the other is ticking slower. This is what most of the first slide show is about.

    In the cosmological case, the idea is that the universe is round (see page 28 of the second presentation) and that the redshift that we think is due to the expansion of the unverse is actually due to the curvature of the universe, i.e., a galaxy around the universe from us will appear to have slower time, because its time vector is going in a different direction than ours. A galaxy ninety degrees around would appear to have time completely stopped, so it would be invisible to us (frequency of zero). Galaxies further away than that would be going backwards in time from our perspective, but we can't see them.

    This is an idea I have not seen before. It seems really neat to me. It seems plausible but then (a) I can't personally verify the observations that he claims validate his theory; he could have produced fake graphs and they would fool me, but I would think it would be easy for him to get caught at that, and (b) even though I've had calculus up to differential equations, I never had non-Euclidean geometry or higher-dimensional stuff, so I can't actually follow his calculations very well. Then again, I didn't try very hard.

    We shall soon see if he has made a significant error. The numbers and the observations will tell the story; either they work out, or they don't.

    --
    Sunlit World Scheme. Weird and different.
    1. Re:Lecture2Signed, page 25 by n54 · · Score: 2, Informative

      IANAP but I agree with you, these are interesting ideas and I think too many of the other posters are too quick to judge the merits of them (so far I've only read the introduction myself, needed a break before attempting lecture one lol).

      His ideas/modifications should be fairly easy to test extensively as he proposes them as solutions to a whole lot of current problems and datasets. I'm fairly confident he has done that to his own satisfaction already (anything else would be academic suicide). Not only that but from my limited understanding the ideas/modifications seem to provide possible solutions in a very elegant manner (yet without outright breaking established science, only correcting/expanding upon it) which is usually a very good indication of someone being onto something. I'm going to keep an eye on this, if it is independently verified and gets accepted by the scientific community it will be Nobel Prize contender material.

      And for those who haven't; please at least read the introduction (also available as PDF) before posting comments. Oh and for the incurable sceptics ("occupational hazard" of Slashdot lol) crackpots seldom present their papers at American Physical Society or American Geophysical Union meetings: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=176275 &cid=14644444 -- well not that kind of crackpots at least :)

      --
      this additional sig includes a portrait of Mohammed in support of freedom of expression, feel free to reproduce it

      --
      this comment is provided "as is" and without any express or implied legibility or congruity [...]
  30. But - you haven't proved that by porky_pig_jr · · Score: 4, Funny

    that the Timecube is *not* a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Most likely, Timecube is the 4th dimensional manifestation of FSM (or other way around. I wonder if hyperstring ... eh, hyperspaghetti theory has to do with it)

  31. I read Heinlein, too. by Max+Threshold · · Score: 3, Funny

    Can I get a research grant now? Kthx.

  32. What's with people questioning who he is? by tyrione · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you look at his colleagues,

    http://www.stanford.edu/dept/physics/people/visiti ng.html

    then cross-reference a few of them:

    http://www.gf.org/lfellow.html

    Douglas N. C. Lin, Professor of Astronomy and Astrophysics, University of California, Santa Cruz: 1991

    If you look him up he is all over about Astrophysics and applied mathematics.

    Betty Young, Santa Clara:

    Betty Young, Physics, a 1-year award from award from the University of California-Berkeley, on an NSF prime contract, providing $36,406 in continuing support for CDMSII: A Search for Cold Dark Matter with Cryogenic Detectors at the Soudan Mine.
    http://www.scu.edu/spo/spring_03_2.htm

    Now if you research Betty you find this:

    http://www.scu.edu/cas/physics/facultyandstaff/you ng.cfm

    Associate Professor Santa Clara University
    Santa Clara, CA 95053

    Professor Young received a B.S. degree in Physics from the San Francisco State University in 1982. In 1990, she received a Ph.D. from Stanford University where she worked on the development of cryogenic particle detectors with superconducting sensors. After graduate school, she spent three years as a post-doctoral fellow at the Center for Particle Astrophysics at UC Berkeley. Since coming to Santa Clara in 1994, Professor Young has established a research group at Santa Clara University and continues to work with the multi-institutional Cold Dark Matter Search (CDMS) collaboration.

    Now whatever becomes of this Alex Mayer and his credentials are yet to be determined. However, I doubt Stanford would even allow him web space under the Physics department if he didn't have the credentials to back it up.

  33. Re:heh, yeah by d474 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "That link is like reading an ad for something that may or may not work."
    LMAO! - you said exactly what my better sense was thinking. This is the psuedo-science guy that Carl Sagan warned us all about.

    Something just doesn't seem right about that power point presentation. The part that raised my red flag, was that this guy claims that he's trying to "get the word out" to a general audience, yet he uses terminology that goes WAY over my head. That's when I know I'm getting bamboozled.
    --
    Authority questions you. Return the favor.
  34. "people thought the Earth was flat" by Rogerborg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No they didn't. Find me one reference - other than the satirical Flat Earth Society - for that. If he can't even get his blurb right, what hope for his science?

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  35. Re:Point(s) of interest by Tango42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Einstein's relativity theory still remains a THEORY, seeing as how no one has actually tested the limits of it."

    What has testing got to do with it? It will always be a theory, because that's all science can produce. If you want something definate you want mathematical theorems - those are known to be true. Theories never will be - they can just be very reliable at predicting things, nothing more.

  36. One step at a time, and we tripped up on the first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Firstly, Alexander F. Mayer is listed at the Physics Department at Stanford as a visiting scholar. He has published a poster at the AGU 2005 Fall Meeting. I have found no other publications, although he submitted a letter to Astrophysical Journal Letters in 1998 which appears to have not been published.

    Now, as to his claims, there are many. Most, if not all, seem to me to rely on his concept of "gravitational transverse redshift" GTR, which in turn (he claims) follows from "a simple thought experiment" on slide 6 of his first lecture, "A Correction to the Gravitational Model". A little though shows his conclusions on slides 6 and 7 to be incorrect. If A sees B's clock running slowly and B sees A's clock running slowly this leads inevitably to a contradiction - an inescapable paradox.

    Say both A and B set their clocks simultaneously to zero, according to an observer at rest at a point O, halfway between A and B, while the spacecraft is at rest. The observer at O also sets their clock to zero at the same time. At this point both Mayer and Einstein would say that all three clocks are observed by A, B and O to be running at the same rate.

    Let the spacecraft accelerate at rate g for t seconds according to the clock at O, which continues to be halfway between A and B. Then let the spacecraft coast - becoming an inertial frame again. Now all three clocks are again observed to be running at the same rate. According to Mayer though, O sees the clocks at both A and B to be lagging the clock at O, A sees the clocks at O and B to be lagging the clock at A, B sees the clocks at O and A to be lagging the clock at A.

    We now move the observers and clocks at A and B to the location of O, taking great care to do so completely symmetrically, so that there is no reason to distinguish between A and B. Here is the paradox - according to Mayer, A continues to see B's clock lagging A, and B continues to see A's clock lagging B.

    This is not the same as the twins paradox. According to O, who has been sitting in the middle all this time, the movement of A and B has been completely symmetrical and there is no reason to favour one over the other.

    Since the rest of Mayer's argument, especially GTR, seems to me to depend on this thought experiment, and since his conclusions from the thought experiment are wrong, his remaining theoretical arguments will fall, unless they follow from other principles.

  37. There is some uniqueness by postbigbang · · Score: 2, Interesting

    He's going beyond special relativity by allowing both special relativity, but also the unions among geometries which, with their relativistic delays and apparencies (e.g. red shifts), explain a lot:

    1) time is non-linear within the same object, when the object is accelerating (and all objects are accelerating at all times; there is no restful object in the universe--relativistically), so measurements that were thought to be predictable through redshifts are not in fact predictable through the means we've been using and

    2) these new domains of time can be thought of not as time-coherency but rather non-red shift, individual object domains. Calculating domains then becomes possible, as newly defined 'red shifts among red shifts' rather than the simplistic comparison from Einstein's equations. Einstein's equations were right, but didn't consider all objects can have their own relativistic differentials in time; hence the new 'geometric' concept. I like the idea, and will mosh it through my Mathematica constructs to see what happens.

    --
    ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  38. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  39. Re:Point(s) of interest by NichG · · Score: 4, Informative

    Math theorems don't necessarily have to apply to the physical universe. The axioms on which the theorems are built are explicitly part of the theorems, leading to a logically self-consistent system. That is, you define the particular 'universe' you want to study by setting down axioms, then you prove things which you know are true about that universe because you've derived them in a logical fashion from those axioms you've set down.

  40. Re:damn it, no one ever thought the earth was flat by kalidasa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not strictly true. The "bede.org" page is right that flat earth cosmology was never, ever accepted by any Christian intellectuals. But pre-scientific belief in the ancient world (for example, in Greece before the 6th or 7th century bc) the idea that the earth was flat was very common, because the things that make the sphericity of the earth apparent weren't yet obvious to them (beginning with the shadow the earth casts on the moon during a lunar eclipse). This was a time when "astronomers" had a hard time understanding that "the morning star" (Phosphoros) and "the evening star" (Hesperos) were actually the same astronomical body.

  41. Re:Point(s) of interest by ZombieWomble · · Score: 5, Informative
    0.999999999999999999999.... is always going to be the smallest possible difference from 1 in reality.

    What is this 'reality' you speak of?

    Mathematics isn't constrained by our perceptions of what it 'should' be or what feels right. It's constrained by the axioms and principles we build it from. And in this case, 0.9 recurring is exactly equal to one. As you demonstrated, there are countless proofs of it (the one you selected being one of the less rigorous ones), and since the proofs are not incorrect, it means that their conclusion is wholly true, from a mathematical point of view.

  42. Re:Point(s) of interest by gonz · · Score: 2, Informative

    It will always be a theory, because that's all science can produce. If you want something definate you want mathematical theorems - those are known to be true.


    Strictly speaking, math is every bit as empirical as physics. People have less confidence in physical theorems than math theorems because physics relies on math, and because physics has a heavy dependence on observations. But the basic validity of math also depends on observations. In particular, where mathematical systems can be interpreted as describing themselves, it is no longer safe to think of "math reality" versus "physical reality" as being complety distinct. One example that comes to mind is the Axiom of Choice; you can take it to be true or false, and in both cases you get a logically consistent mathematics (like euclidean vs noneuclidean geometry). But despite this empirical status, the Axiom of Choice has major consequences for abstract mathematical "truth".

    Also, from philosophy standpoint, math relies on lots of nontrivial physical observations that humans take for granted (e.g. of paper, of mental states, etc). This concern goes beyond mere speculations about pathological situations (what if I'm insane? what if my life is a conspiracy like in the Matrix?). A key result of the 20th Century is that it's entirely possible that study of arithmetic will one day lead us to conclude that our basic model of arithmetic is logically inconsistent. In fact, Kurt Godel showed that proving the consistency of arithmetic is actually impossible in any conventional mathematical/metamathematical system.

    -Gonz
  43. I'll tell you what... by fyngyrz · · Score: 2, Funny
    ...confuses me about gravity.

    You know when you fall down? Well, the part when your head hits the ground, you know that part, that comes after you're mostly done falling? Well, that part confuses me. And there's some kind of relationship to distance, because the further I fall, the more confused I get when my head hits the ground. I have verified this through empirical testing, although lately, I've been unable to commit all the resulting data thus obtained to long term storage.

    Well, uh, I am interested in your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newletter.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  44. Time is just one aspect. by JQuick · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Please stop harping about Lorenz and time.

    In his paper "On the Cause of Geodetic Satellite Accelerations and Other Correlated Unmodeled Phenomena", via the American Geophysical Union in December 2005, he outlined specific modifications to general relativity. The paper's Abstract begins:

    "An oversight in the development of the Einstein field equations requires a well-defined amendment to general relativity that very slightly modifies the weak-field Schwarzschild geometry yielding unambiguous new predictions of gravitational relativistic phenomena."

    The result of this amendment is an additional relativistic effect. As you may know, in general relativity, the velocity of light is a constant. Thus one's velocity relative to a photon can result in a shift of measured frequency, i.e. the red-shift, or blue-shift of spectra. Also, since the theory claims that accelerated reference frames are identical, this shift is also observed due to gravitational acceleration.

    The author claims that gravitationally induced red-shifting is also dependent on the angle through which a photon travels in a gravitational field. In addition, the theory discusses gravity and angular momentum. An accelerating electric charge emits electromagnetic energy. Though long theorized, a similar gravity wave has never been observed. The author suggests that angular momentum, e.g. spinning and orbiting masses emit electromagnetic energy as well. Thus, orbits even in a perfect vacuum will decay. As a spinning body slows, or orbital momentum decays, this energy will be balanced by radiation in the microwave range.

    The additional source relativistic red shift, and the additional changes with respect to conservation of momentum, have profound cosmological import, if true. The theory passes the simplicity and beauty tests admirably. What I particularly like about his presentation has to do with testability.

    He discusses numerous problems with the GPS and geodetic satellite systems, various puzzling data from several deep space missions, the orbits of planets and moons, and show how his equations account for the discrepancies in the data. He also proposes a number of simple experiments which could prove or disprove his theory. He predicts what to look for in terrestrial microwave radiation, and suggests experiments that could be run using existing satellites which could prove or disprove his theory. He also suggest that other scientist look at data which has already been collected but which he has never seen, and predicts what patterns might confirm the theory.

    From the ground up, the ideas are well reasoned, and his approach seems scientifically sound.

    Time gets into the mix, because the broader ramifications of the theory are large. Imagine a space ship under constant acceleration. On the floor (aft bulkhead) place two clocks communicating via pulses of light. He shows how each clock (even though they share the same acceleration reference frame) will each view the other as slow. By virtue of general relativity, pairs of clocks on earth should likewise each view the ticks of another clock as slow. Thus, there is no common, universal time. The rate of time is a local attribute at each location.

    The cosmological implications if this theory are also impressive.

    There is no need to posit dark matter or dark energy. They are discussed only to account for missing matter and the expansion of the universe. However, if this theory is true, the universe is not expanding, thus removing the need to postulate dark energy. The matter needed to keep galaxies from flying apart is no longer needed. Rotating galaxies are radiating microwaves and slowing down, not being gripped by dark matter. The universe finite and unbounded. It is neither expanding nor contracting.

    No big bang would have happened. Remember the history of the theory? It was attempting to account for red shifted stellar spectra and for the microwave background. If the red shift is a relativistic phenomenon (not the result of unive

  45. Re:merit of mayer's argument by theonewho · · Score: 3, Informative

    hi,

    [disclaimer: i am an experimental high-energy physicist -- i am not an "expert" on GR but it's a sucker bet that i know more about GR than most of y'all do]

    i've gone through the lengthy lecture presentations and mayer meets the (or at least my) criteria for good science from a theorist -- he makes specific predictions which can be tested against empirically obtained datasets -- however, i didn't do the nasty integrals required to be done to see if he was simply lying and i will have to take him at his word that he has done them

    essentially, the kernel of his hypothesis is contained at page 32 of his "lecture 1" pdf -- it is a small correction (in the weak-field approximation if i grok correctly) of the underlying metric which is the differential element which is used in standard GR calculations

    *everything* in GR depends on the metric -- if mayer's metric can be empirically (or theoretically) motivated and, while using the differential geometry/GR mathematical machinery accrued over the last century or so, it can provide a more close approximation to empirical results than standard GR, then it is valid and more than worthy of further consideration

    mayer provides a *very* long list of predictions about phenomena where standard GR predictions have failed to match the data and each of his predictions seems more or less rigorously derived from his singular assumption -- whether he has published or not (and a spires search did not yield any publications), and whether he is a post-doc, professor, grad student or invertebrate, he makes no appeal to authority (as i somewhat do in this posting) -- he only asks that his predictions be tested against unbiasedly observed reality

    yo, gotta go --- i see it's super bowl time, chips and beer are waiting ...

    cheers,
    kevin

  46. Re:merit of mayer's argument by elwinc · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Thanks for the post. Physics was my undergrad major, but my formal physics ended there, so I'm even less qualified to comment; on the other hand, this is SlashDot!

    Given that caveat, I found Mayer worth a serious look. He's got a number of references showing measurements that GR does not explain. The most convincing stuff is from GPS satellite measurements which show an unexplained sawtooth pattern with a period of two cycles per day and an amplitude of several feet (or nanoseconds). GPS satellites and ground stations explicitly correct for the general relativistic effects of the earth's gravity well, so any anomalies would be very interesting. But he's also got anomalies in measurements of hydrogen 21 cm radiation and in the effect of Ganymede on signals sent from the Galileo spacecraft.

    If Mayer faked the anomalies (but I believe they're real), he would be shot down in no time. Assuming the anomalies are real, then any theory that can explain them in addition to the rest of the effects explained by GR (precession of Mercury's orbit, redshift of a gravity well, etc) deserves a serious look.

    One other point. In grad school, when we students complained about the many annoyances involved in writing and publishing our work, my advisor would say "50% of science is communication." There's alot of wisdom in that. There are plenty of cranks (or not so cranky folk) out there tugging on physicists' sleeves and saying "Einstein was wrong and I have a notebook full of equations to prove it!" I know such a fellow myself, but it would take weeks to examine his equations and maybe months to explain his errors. What he and his ilk lack is the ability to communicate like a scientist. Anyway, where I'm going with all this is that Mayer suffers no such lack. His 'Lecture 1' document is much better than average writing by a scientist. While this doesn't prove his equations are better than Einstein's, it is further reason why he deserves a serious look.

    --
    --- Often in error; never in doubt!