Slashdot Mirror
Danish, Western Websites Under Attack
caese writes "The BBC is reporting that almost 900 Danish websites have been defaced by crackers angry about the recent controversy over cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad. From the article: 'What is extraordinary for this Danish case is the speed in which the community united'. Another 1600 or so Western websites have been defaced by the same group. The defacements have ranged from condemnation of the cartoons to outright calls for violence."
There is no overkill in a jihad. Only kill.
The muslim world HAS to learn to play nicely with the rest of the world or face becoming marginalized. There's only so many times people can read about young girls being gang raped to punish their brother or young girls being forced to stay inside a burning building because they don't have their headgear on... not to mention all of the totally innocent contractors, journalists and students that are murdered for doing their job or even going to school. Where are the women's rights groups?!?!? Where are the "peaceful" muslims?
ConsultingFair.com
For a reasonable time-line of this issue, check out Wikipedia:
m mad_cartoons_controversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muha
So they're getting all bent out of shape about a comic depicting them as violent and what do they do to protest the comic? They get violent, start riots and deface things.
Seems a bit counter-productive to me.
Cartoon is published that accuses my religion of supporting terrorism and violence.
I protest that characterization by calling for or comitting acts of terrorism and violence, both in the real world, and on the internet.
Nope, no hypocrisy here!
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
The cartoons were published in September, protests happened in the last couple of weeks. Speed? Not much. What is more astonishing is the extent to which muslims have been shown to be prone to manipulation (on par or worse than the manipulation seen in the US post-9/11). I suppose that is the inherent power of mass religion, "the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions."
You find out the cartoons have already been circulating widely in the muslims world during height of ramadan in Oct 05. Next, you find out a Danish Immam invader added more cartoons to the bunch. Then you find out the Danes will head the security council in the near future. What makes it even more funny, is your own western papers ( not knowing the cartoons were circulated in the islamic world without riots ) then turn around and censor the cartoons to the american public -- out of multicultural sensitivity.
-----
The Ranting Sandmonkey, an Egyptian blog, illustrates just how bogus the MSM refusal to discuss the Danish cartoons "out of respect for Islam" is:
Freedom For Egyptians reminded me why the cartoons looked so familiar to me: they were actually printed in the Egyptian Newspaper Al Fagr back in October 2005. I repeat, October 2005, during Ramadan, for all the egyptian muslim population to see, and not a single squeak of outrage was present. Al Fagr isn't a small newspaper either: it has respectable circulation in Egypt, since it's helmed by known Journalist Adel Hamoudah. Looking around in my house I found the copy of the newspaper, so I decided to scan it and present to all of you to see.
------
'The past as prologue'
http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/
The cartoons were published in Egypt, and there was no problem:
y cott-egypt.html
http://egyptiansandmonkey.blogspot.com/2006/02/bo
Anyone heard about this? Looks like there is a double-standard.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
Attack: Cartoon
Defense: Death threats, burn down buildings, deface websites, protests, and the list goes on.
If those defenses worked, Cathy would have been off the comic pages years ago.
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
It use to be possible to say that Australians were a peaceful and laid back people. But since the riots in Sydney over the lawful arrest and conviction of some criminals, how can anyone possibly defend Australians?
Bad people do bad things. It doesn't matter if they're Muslim, American or Buddist. I'll defend every muslim who doesn't participate in a riot and related actions until they're either all killed, or I die.
There's no genuine anger about the cartoons. They were published 6 months ago.
The cartoons are just an excuse. The cartoon riots are about rioting, not about cartoons. Rioters riot for fun and profit. Protests are arranged to gain political power for the people arranging them.
Web sites are defaced for the same reason bricks are thrown through windows. It's the same reason Reginald Denny was beat up. It's a combination of hate and the idea that "we can get away with it this time".
I advise not enabling the rioters and web-page defacers by giving them what they want: attention, concessions, etc.
..that to the way Hindus reacted when pictures of Hindu Gods were depicted on toilet seats (in UK), on footwear and on bikini wear! They had silent (non-violent) protests. Cowards? no, matured!
I certainly respect the Muslims who feel offended, but if they are going to live in a liberal democracy, they're going to have to just accept the fact that they're going to be offended.
I'm agnostic. I get offended when my state's motto is "With God, all things are possible". I don't like hearing "God Bless America" every time George Bush opens his mouth. I do understand I live in a country with religious freedom, and I'm just going to have to take it. If I can't take it anymore, I'll move to a country that supresses religious liberties.
Many of the European Muslims think they can get the good benefits of a liberal democracy (decent jobs, market-based economy), while asking for special status for their religious beliefs. Someone needs to tell them part of living in a liberal democracy is having thick skin.
Yeah, but they don't burn down buildings and kill people and promise 5 Kg in gold for killing people related to the blasphemy.
You know, the usual.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
A: Like this.
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
Yeah, but as a friend of mine (who is actually over in the Middle East) puts it: "This whole [Danish/Muslim] dispute is simply a lightning rod for a backward theocratic movement which is unable to successfully compete in a modern world of ideas and business."
In other words, it's like when you fight with your wife over the dishes. You're not really fighting about the dishes; it's just the symptom that manifests to indicate a deeper issue.
I wonder if the media has an agenda here?
... The best way of manipulating the public is to supress your reasonable opponents and exaggerate the unreasonable opponents. It's a subtle variation on a straw-man argument. If the only people the public sees oppose you are lunatics, it makes it much easier for them to believe yours is the only reasonable course of action. ..
See this comment made earlier today:
That particularly rung true to me because I like to digest information in quick hits. I like to check out the summaries of news items and if something is interesting, hear some commentary on it and dig a little deeper.
If all the headlines are "Muslims have taken hostages in..." or "A radical Islamic group exploded...", then people become conditioned to believe that Muslims and Islam are violent when they really aren't.
In a thread a while back, someone made a fantastic observation about Africa. The general premise was that most people still think that the entire continent of Africa is nothing more than corrupt leaders and starving children and this viewpoint was partly blamed on the media and mostly blamed on the influx and inundation of "Save the children" commericals in the 1990s.
You have to look at their current stage of cultural development. In the past, Christianity and Judaism were barbaric religions. Generally they became this way after gaining too much power and a large following, then they slowly moved back towards moderation. This move to moderation occurred after members of the faith began to sponsor the changes in religious culture. They began to embrace the sharing of ideas and freedom of expression of those ideas, even at great danger to themselves. The Islamic religion is still in its "terrible twos" so to speak. They are at the same stage that Christians were in during the crusades and inquisition. Until their societies and cultures move past the embracing of religious ideals over social ideals, they will continue to be this way.
It's a little strange to me, but before this Danish cartoon incident I was siding with the 'doves', yet now I find myself siding with the hawks. Freedom of speech is at least as sacred to me as the prophet is to a muslim person. It's such a crucial part of the very foundation of our culture. People died for it. There can be no compromise on this issue. No apologetic placating. Particularly not for the type of murderous trash who are willing to violently burn/kill/vandalise/hack/destroy etc. for some cartoons. I realise that (a) it is a minority of Muslims and (b) they are actually behaving against the very teachings of the Prophet and Islam, but dammit, the rest of the Islamic people better get these violent ones in line or we are rightfully headed for a clash of ideals here.
I realise that (a) it is a minority of Muslims
If there's anything that this is proving, it's that the crazies are not in the minority here. 500,000 people chanting "death to america, death to israel?"
Granted, while most Muslims will not actively torch embassies and behead infidels, they genuinely beleive the entire world should be forcibly conquered by their religion.
Yeah, but I have seen enough religious propaganda to know that it's easy to show that any group you pick teaches and/or practices such things. If you take words out of context, put your own spin on historical events, find one or two loud-mouthed extremists to quote, dig up old writings than nobody takes literally any more, you can do this to anybody. I suggest looking at the inspirational output of Chick Publications for examples of this.
The question is, how do most Muslims understand the teachings of the Prophet? If most of them really do think it's okay to murder people because they are "infidels", then we have a major problem. In that case, it's pretty much our DUTY to publish the cartoons, and more.
But if most of them do NOT think that, then it is THEIR duty (and certainly in their best interests) to put out their alternate message, and to tell the world that murder and kidnappings are NOT what Islam teaches. If the passages you quoted above are in the Koran (and not taken out of context), and Bin Ladin and his ilk interpret them the way they seem to read, and the rest of the Islamic world either keeps silent, then they have only themselves to blame for the consequences -- they can hardly blame the people who take Bin Ladin at his word that he is speaking for Muslims everywhere.
If there's anything that this is proving, it's that the crazies are not in the minority here. 500,000 people chanting "death to america, death to israel?"
You are very misinformed (which is admittedly not your fault as the US news it trying to make it sound exactly like the way you are taking it). This "demonstration against the cartoons" is actually just an annaul holy event. You go there next year, you'll see roughly the same number of people marching there. Its just that some of the Islamic radical leaders are getting up in front of this crowd and railing against the cartoons and shouting things like "death to America".
Of course a headline saying "1/2 Million Muslims attend demonstration chanting 'death to America'" sounds much more exciting than "Annual Shia religious event draws 1/2 million where a few radical leaders condem America". I'll let you guess which one American news organizations (I use that term loosely) will lead the evening news with.
"reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
Um... They're here. And here. And here and here and here and here and here and even here and, oh, there are a few hundred more here.
Muslim leaders around the world have issued fatwa after fatwa condemning terrorism and calling for an end to suicide bombings, car bombings, bus bombs, subway bombs, and every other bombing short of another Uwe Boll film. Just because Bill O'Reilly doesn't tell you about it doesn't mean that is never happened.
September, 2005: A series of cartoons is published in the Danish newspaper Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten, depicting the Prophet in a number of unflattering ways. Nobody notices.
October, 2005: Nobody notices again.
November and December, 2005: Still no response. It's almost like nobody cares.
Early January, 2006: During the Hajj, an annual pilgrimage in which millions of people travel to Mecca, negligence on behalf of the organizers . Earlier that month a hotel near Mecca had collapsed, killing at least seventy people. Both tragedies were seen as being caused by the carelessness of the Saudi government, and the metaphorical poo-poo started to fly.
Nobody heard about it in North America because they were too concerned with more important things like Nick and Jessica's break-up and whether Angelina and Brad were likely to get back together.
Later That Same Week: The Saudi press, which is completely controlled by the government, discovers to its shock that a mere four months ago a foreign newspaper with a limited circularion had printed a few poorly drawn cartoons which nobody seemed to care about. Sensing a far more important story at hand the Saudi government drops all plans to criticize themselves for their fatal blunders at the Hajj and instead starts running up to four stories a day about the horrors of infidel cartoonists. The locals eat it up.
The European and American media sense a big boost to their circulation and ratings, eat it up with just as much fervor, and start reprinting the cartoons. This is a bit like throwing water on a grease fire, and it leads us to where we are today.
The dog is being wagged, folks.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Most of this comment isn't even a reply to what I wrote, but here:
"If you want to try to cure yourself of the problem and remove the cultural blinders, you have to do a Nigger Thought Experiment. If you prefer, you can do a Kike Thought Experiment. Instead of the Danish cartoons, image a big-lipped, bug-eyed 'nigger' eating a giant watermelon. Or perhaps you'd prefer a cloaked, hook-nosed 'kike' with a giant bag of gold 'jewing' some gentile out of his money? Would you be defending the right of the papers to publish such cartoons based on the 'enlightenment values' of the West? Would you be so proud of your precious 'free speech'?"
Yeah. This is allowed. Organizations like the KKK? Allowed to spew their hatred. That argument is totally bogus. The civilized world doesn't riot when people publish offensive stuff. Most of the time, it gets an hour or so of press and then ignored.
The cartoons were targetted at a very specific and very vocal muslim population that uses violence as a means to solving their problems. As people who want to be in prominent places, they can be ridiculed. I can see how the way it was done is *highly offensive*, but that doesn't make it okay to burn stuff down. You're just deluding yourself into the most extremeist form of political correctness if you think so.
"Here is a small list of some of the things we do to Muslims, without even a hint that there might be some moral issues involved"
You and I both know that's bullshit. No one imprisons muslim women to take them away from their families just for fun. No one bombs innocent children, calls it a mistake, but really meant to do it on purpose. No one chops down olive tree groves just to laugh at dejected muslim faces.
Lastly, It's clear you've never read the history of the Palestinian refugees and how they got there. Before you reply - and I'm pretty sure there's going to be a reply here - go look up exactly what forced Palestinian people from their lands. [Try "Arab Israelis" as a start"]