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Cell Phone Games - Market or Mirage?

Rimbo writes "One popular view of the cellphone gaming industry is that it's the place where they exile people who couldn't cut it in the console and PC game industry. The other popular point of view is that with the huge volume of handsets everywhere, it's a market primed to explode. Today's Hit from the Wireless Pipe takes a look at some little-noticed details of the buyout that suggest that this is not the sign of the market maturing that many want it to be." Relatedly, that buyout was finally approved by the Jamdat Shareholders this past weekend.

82 comments

  1. Um...They're cell phones. by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    While games on cell phones are alright as timewasters, I don't see any way that they're superior to the games kids write on their TI-83s when they get bored in high school. Anyone who wanted a really good portable game would probably buy a handheld device made specifically for that. Why would anyone think that there would be a big market here? I'd expect some hobbyist developer communities, but people actually trying to make big money off of it?

    1. Re:Um...They're cell phones. by TheRealDamion · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Mine has 640x200x24 screen 200Mhz cpu, 32M SDRAM, 2G mmc capable storage with 90M flash built in and the ability to play ogg/aac/mp3 with high quality stereo. It already has SDL libraries and has doom and other major graphical platforming games ported. This is not uncommon for newer phones, the 9300i which I believe is expected in about 2 months will be even more powerful, with 54M wifi, in only 11cm x 4cm x 1.8cm form factor, ssh (via putty) making it possibly the most useful device in the known universe to a unixy geek.

      Anyway despite all of this, and the 3year old desktop PC specs, the main games I play are simple puzzle and card games. But note, I play these _AN_ _AWFUL_ _LOT_. Also despite being an open source fan, somebody who has almost never had a need to purchase software, I did pay for RayMan on the 9210 and it was fantastic.

      I definitely believe there is a market for phone games, especially simple fun playable puzzle games.

    2. Re:Um...They're cell phones. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some games company are a bit more savvy (www.iplay.com). Point and click via the internet and presto...

  2. Let's relive the 80's by 88NoSoup4U88 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From a gamedesigner's view I think the mobile platform makes it possible to relive the 80's: A game can once again be made by one person, or very small teams.
    With this, and the shorter development time, it makes it less risky to try out experimental concepts, and the limitations of the platform itself can also lead to some very original games: I've seen some great one/two button games out there, that are easy to be played on a mobile.

    1. Re:Let's relive the 80's by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 1

      How much could someone make selling those, though? Especially when there are hobbyists cloning them and giving them away for free. As you said, development time is very short for simple games.

    2. Re:Let's relive the 80's by 88NoSoup4U88 · · Score: 1
      I've seen software around that enables you very easily to host your ringtones/mobile games from your own website, and sends it to them once they pay.

      As for how much you would be asking is totally your own decision: Yet another advantage of the platform.

    3. Re:Let's relive the 80's by TheNoxx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uh, the same if not much more than people make from the whole ringtones rackett... huge market, almost non-existant developement time and costs compared to games for consoles, extremly accessible... so yeah, a good wad of cash or two.

      --
      Ex nihilo nihil fit.
    4. Re:Let's relive the 80's by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Pretty much everyone's ecommerce modules these days support digital downloads. For instance I'm fiddling with drupal right now and there's an ecommerce module that has a whole bunch of payment modules (including paypal, which is what I'm using) and a bunch of product modules including digital downloads, subscriptions, et cetera. For Java/MIDP games, all you have to do is put together the JAR file, then make a corresponding JAD that points to it, and prevent people from making the download of the JAR until they've paid. There are JAD-making programs that will do this for you, then you just edit the JAD (a text file) and change the URL.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Let's relive the 80's by DZign · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The number of people who are smart enough to download a game from a website and install it (through a specially bought bluetooth adaptor or cable to their pc) is very small.

      The market of 'dumb' people who are just consumers and will pay to download a game is much, much bigger. Most of these games (together with ringtones, wallpapers, ..) are marketed through ads in magazines.

      Cell phone games are definitely a business. I know someone who has a company doing it, he employs a few developers and it seems they're doing well (at least I think so, he just 'upgraded' his office and has a nice bmw x5..)

  3. The only time I play cell phone games... by RingDev · · Score: 4, Funny

    is on the crapper.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    1. Re:The only time I play cell phone games... by kevin.fowler · · Score: 1

      Downtown Hold'Em. $5. Never a dull crap.

      --
      Bury me in mashed potatoes.
    2. Re:The only time I play cell phone games... by meccaneko · · Score: 1
      is on the crapper. -Rick
      note to self, do not borrow Ricks phone...
    3. Re:The only time I play cell phone games... by Dracil · · Score: 1

      And then you put that thing next to your face?!

    4. Re:The only time I play cell phone games... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      You mean people actually still TALK on cell phones?

    5. Re:The only time I play cell phone games... by Dracil · · Score: 1

      Methinks you missed the joke.

    6. Re:The only time I play cell phone games... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Nope, you did. ;)

  4. Opinion by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One popular view of the cellphone gaming industry is that it's the place where they exile people who couldn't cut it in the console and PC game industry.

    Ouch, that's harsh. Did anyone ever consider that the skills necessary for phone programming are just different than the skills required for PC and console game programming? I mean, the latter categories have gobs of memory and CPU to play with. The former has to fit as much as possible in anywhere from 4 to 64 kilobytes. The gaming market hasn't seen requirements that harsh since Atari was king. (Even the NES regularly went beyond those limits.)

    The other popular point of view is that with the huge volume of handsets everywhere, it's a market primed to explode.

    Uhh, no. That view doesn't fly either.

    Let me explain the market:

    - Millions (billions?) of people have handsets.
    - A large percentage of those have "downtime" that they want to fill with something interesting. (e.g. The bus, train, long car trips, etc.)
    - To fill that downtime, a percentage of those people turn to quick games that they can play for a few minutes.

    And that, my friends, is the market in a nutshell. The part that handheld game makers seem to keep missing is that players don't want immersive, long lasting gaming. They want to pull out Pacman, Solitare, Space Invaders, or some other quick game to pass the time. The moment that niche of time is completed, the game gets turned off. Thus the following information has been percolating to the market:

    - "Classic" games sell best.
    - Price points must be low because players don't want to spend much money to fill a little time.
    - Consumers don't buy new handsets just for the games. They buy games for the handsets.

    Or in other words, phone gaming is the ultimate in "Casual" gaming. (Please read up on what casual gaming is before you reply that you're a casual gamer. Thank you.) Anyone who bets their company on the idea that phone players want more than a casual gaming experience is bound to lose. Period, end of story.

    1. Re:Opinion by brkello · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I really don't see how you counter his argument. Sure, the skills are different. But simpler games can be made for this platform. If they can't keep up with the big dogs...why not try making games for cell phones. They are not trying to squeeze doom3 on to your cell, so it isn't so much an issue. Think games like pacman. People find (or found) it fun, addicting, and it isn't hard to keep it small even if you aren't very competant.

      Your next argument is dumb. Let me explain how markets work. The potential market for cell phones are people who can hear, hold things to there ears, and are in range of the cellular providers. The potential market for cell phone games are people who own cell phones. Since this is a large number, it is an attractive market. No one is so stupid to think that everyone who has a cell phone will get a game.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    2. Re:Opinion by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      Sure, the skills are different. But simpler games can be made for this platform. Think games like pacman.

      1. Pacman was larger than 4K.

      2. If you think that fitting a full game in so little space is easy, then I invite you to try your hand at the Java 4K Contest. We'll see how you do. (Here's a hint: It's not easy. It takes an exceptional understanding of computer technology.)

      Your next argument is dumb.

      No sir, your argument is dumb. I never claimed it was a small market, but I did claim that only a percentage of the (rather large) market is interested, and that those interested are only looking to fill in time gaps. Pay attention next time.

    3. Re:Opinion by gutnor · · Score: 1

      I thing that for the incompetent developer (or not yet competent) it would be far easier to fall back on little java applet/flash game on the web than try the mobile phone.

      On PC, if you are lasy or simply learning you can bet that most user of your game will use IE on a Windows machine that display at least 800*600 and that you have enough horse power and memory not to worry too much ( ie if you test on a common machine you can be confident other will be able to play )

      That's not the case on a Mobile:
      Mobile phone game have very strict development restriction, a broad range of graphic resolutions ( from everything between 64*64 to 320*240), ram from 4K to 1Gb, different type of control (multiple key press, ...), and even for the same spec the performance difference between 2 phones can be abysmal ... Most of the time you 3-4 release of the same to cover a wide range of phone, meaning be able to design 4 times your game.
      Additionally games must live in a shared ecosystem and handle different kind of interuption like phone calls, SMS, ... and of course, a phone is a phone not a game console and the design of the game should always take that into account.

    4. Re:Opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The former has to fit as much as possible in anywhere from 4 to 64 kilobytes.

      Now, I only really know the BREW side, but there's nothing that low. Some older phones have a 64k JAR limit, but nothing is that short on memory.

      Under BREW, these simple games (pacman, etc.) typically use 150 to 200k of memory. That's including code, decompressed images, sound, menus, etc. The smallest amount of free memory I have seen on a phone was about 300k.

      More complex games can easily require twice that and then life gets a little interesting, but it's still not really a big deal. Or at least it wouldn't be with slightly longer deadlines...

      Anyway, I'd say the main differences from consoles (which I've never coded for, but meh) are:
        - far smaller budget
        - way more platforms
        - more diverse platforms
        - more restricted resources
        - more casual audience
      The hardware is only designed for games as an afterthought, and the APIs are often designed by people who don't understand game programming.

      Compared to older hardware, they're not really the same either. A cell phone will typically have a bit more memory, but also waste more on bitmaps and heap management. Also there's very little in the way of funky hardware tricks you can do.

      Or in other words, phone gaming is the ultimate in "Casual" gaming.

      Right, and it's a really hard market to satisfy. (Never mind that you first have to convince the carriers that the market wants your game.) How do you find casual gamers to survey them? How do you advertise to them?

      That's why classics and ported flash games do so well. People already recognize the games.

      It's a big market, but hard to capture.

    5. Re:Opinion by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      The former has to fit as much as possible in anywhere from 4 to 64 kilobytes. The gaming market hasn't seen requirements that harsh since Atari was king. (Even the NES regularly went beyond those limits.)

      Yeah, or the Gameboy, which had 8k less than ten years ago, or the Gameboy Color, which had 32k less than 6 years ago. Don't pat them on the backs too hard; writing tetris in 64k just isn't very difficult.

      Oh, and by the way, cellular phones with more than 4 megabytes of RAM available to the application reached 90% saturation three years ago. Cellular phones are in fact on the whole more powerful than handheld consoles, not the other way around.

      Let me explain the market:

      See, there are two problems. For one, you didn't actually say anything that contradicts to whom you were replying. For two, I don't know where you're getting this thing about classic games being what sell well; the bulk of games that are selling well are in fact new games. You could try actually looking into the numbers, since several of the phone vendors make them public, as in fact do the people behind BREW.

      The games that sell best are in fact games with a 20 minute average play time, tending towards fantasy sports leagues, puzzle games with concrete progress and network-aware small strategy games. Market research firms tell the tune that the bulk of cellular phone use is during lunch breaks and on public transportation.

      It's really easy to just say things and get modded up informative. When you're in the business and spend for real data, though, it turns out that popular belief just tends to be dead wrong.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
  5. I've got one purchased game by hattig · · Score: 2, Interesting

    on my Motorola A1000, that I bought from my provider during a sale for £1.

    I guess I got my value out of it, but the phone controls are inadequate for platform games. However they're good enough to play Heretic with, less fine tuning required I guess.

    For part time projects for programmers though, they're a great industry to get into. You don't have to learn complex 3D APIs, or spend months writing a bare game. You can do the bare game in a few evenings, create a few useful libraries for 2D gaming, write the game (80's style 8-bit ports usually) in a few more, and give it to your friends, or even see if you can sell it via a network provider and get a few quid back for your efforts.

    Well, actually, I bet you could do a game that matches any Atari ST or Amiga game actually - you can do quite a lot with a >100MHz ARM processor, even if it is running a JVM. Smooth scrolling and lots of action certainly works (at 320x208 on my A1000), and I've seen parallax scrolling done as well.

    The only difficulty with it for casual programmers is that each mobile platform needs its own customisation for the game - different screen sizes, processing capabilities (no parallax scrolling on the lower end hardware), etc. Which takes a lot of time if you want to spread the game wide and far.

  6. Content Delivery by uzusan · · Score: 1

    is it just me or does there not seem to be the delivery methods in place to facilitate such an "explosion" in the market? i used to use a contract phone, which was fine for getting games, if i wanted to wait ages while it downloaded. paying all the while not only for the game itself, but the connection time while it was downloading. i now use a prepay phone (i dont use the phone that much and the contract was just useless) and it seems my options are limited. the only way i know of to get games without a lot of hassle is to text one of these shortcode using companies. i dont want to get tied into a weekly service that i have to pay £3-£4 a week for the priveledge of games that i dont want. i use a nokia 6600, which has bluetooth / IR and an SD flash card. none of which i have the connections / reader for on my computer. what i would like to see is stalls set up in shops like music stores that can send you games over bluetooth or text message for a small fee. (for example you insert a few pounds into the machine and give it your number, or something like that).

    --
    Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.
  7. Some good pocket pc phone games by Nightspirit · · Score: 1

    IMO here are some good pocket PC games (I have a pocket PC phone, the samsung i730).

    Emulators:
    Morphgear (tg-16 module) for devil's crush pinball (highly recommended)
    PocketSNES: FF2+3
    PocketNES

    PocketPC Games:
    4 pinball
    Bounty Hunter pinball
    GameBox Classics and GameBox Gems
    Links
    Mummy Maze
    Age of Empires
    Skyforce
    Warfare Inc
    Zuma
    Baseball Addict
    Soccer Addict

    not on par with GBA games, but adequate and fun while you are waiting for anything, such as a passanger in a car, at a doctor's office, etc. I could bring my GBA with me, but I never do, and always have my cellphone with me.

    JAMDAT has some nice looking smartphone games last time I checked.

  8. An interesting observation... by mac.convert · · Score: 1
    One popular view of the cellphone gaming industry is that it's the place where they exile people who couldn't cut it in the console and PC game industry.

    Tell that to John Romero.

    --
    "Every time a bell rings, a Dell laptop bursts into flame."
    1. Re:An interesting observation... by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Who couldn't cut it in the PC/Console industry anymore:

      Daikatana

    2. Re:An interesting observation... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean the guy that recently got fired from his console gig at Midway?

      Or are you referring to his helming the monstrous flop that was his only post-id PC game?

    3. Re:An interesting observation... by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because the guy who made Daikatana, he can sure make it in the PC gaming world.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
  9. Jamdat financial data by Zigurd · · Score: 1

    When I worked for a mobile game company, I read the Jamdat S-1 (an SEC filing that goes with an IPO) because it was one of the few sources of hard numbers about the mobile game industry. I blogged my comments here: http://jamdats1blog.blogspot.com/

    It comes down to that mobile games are a niche, but they are a niche in a stupendously huge market. Big enough that the first-tier mobile game publishers are on track to become as big as some console and PC game publishers.

    Nobody has broken out of the niche yet, but it is likely that the products that do break out will come from a leading mobile publisher. EA was only in part buying Jamdat's performance in the niche. They also bought a better chance of breaking out, and of breaking out more explosively through Jamdat's well-developed channels.

    The mobile channel is unique. While it can be frustrating making a buying descision on, if you are lucky, a couple screen-shots and a terse description, it is also a very low-friction channel. You carry the shop in your pocket, and you already have a billing relationship with the shop owner. In Verizon's mobile games channel, subscription pricing is common, and lucrative. Jamdat has global channel presence where EA previously had none in the mobile "walled garden."

  10. I'd say.. by apollosfire · · Score: 1

    Mirage.

  11. Just FYI by Lally+Singh · · Score: 1

    Games I've got on my treo (purchased on sprint vision, autobilled to my phone bill)
    - Bejeweled
    - Pac man
    - Ace Poker
    - Galaga

    I paid 15-20 for each, and they're all worth it (Sprint gives you like $15 a month in vision credits to blow on shit like this). The games are fun time wasters, and equally important, a great icebreaker. See an attractive lady next to you who looks as bored as you do? Bring up pac man with all the sounds and music. It'll get a smile.

    On a more serious note, cell phone games are also simple and unintimidating enough for the larger market: adults, women, and younger children (a great way to get them to shut the hell up). At $15 a pop, with no game-specific hardware costs, why not?

    OTOH, it's also a simple, humble, fun market. And for some reason, the MBAs think that this means it's another internet boom waiting to happen -- because, for them, everything's another internet boom waiting to happen. Fuck them and their booms. It's a simple, humble, fun market. There isn't enough money in it to spend millions on advertising (and hopefully there won't be for a long time), and apparently that's the big 'Mirage' of cell gaming. Again, fuck those idiots and their bubbles.

    --
    Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
  12. Bring out your dead by SoCalFatboy · · Score: 2, Informative
    If you want to know anything more about the game, you're out six bucks. If you want to download a lot of games to find the gem, you're going to be dirt poor and playing a lot of crappy games.
    Now take a look at some of Jamdat's top sellers: Bejeweled, Tetris, Bowling, Solitaire, Doom RPG. All of them existing properties. All of them known games.

    Amen, it's a money sink. DO NOT buy the unlimted version (usually 3x monthly cost). You won't be playing it more than 3 months. On my current phone I tried "unknown" games.

    EA Madden 2006: Gamepad to numberpad? Yeah, right. I could play Intellivision football with more precision.

    Ys 1: Best game I've played so far, but that's not saying much. At least I could move my character reliably. But good luck getting more than 10 hours of gameplay.

    Jamdat MLB 2005: It looks like baseball. You can control the location of your pitch. The rest is feels like you're just pretending to play.

    Stick to Tetris and Bejeweled. Are those worth $700M?

    1. Re:Bring out your dead by superchi · · Score: 1

      You're correct that games that try to be console games will fail for current cell phones. As for a game that provides you with 10 hours of gameplay for $10, that's not a bad deal.

      Is Tetris worth a lot of money? It is if you figure out how many people worldwide have a cell-phone, how many of them play video games on it, how many of them are willing to pay a few dollars for it, and how many of them like Tetris. Each filter brings the number smaller, but you're starting with an enormous base. Worth $700M? Maybe not, but that's drastically oversimplifying the equation if you think EA only bought Tetris and Bejeweled.

  13. Consider by Miadlo · · Score: 1

    There are many things that are different in making a cell phone game from a pc game. As the article says there are many different types of handsets, made by many different companies, on different platforms, to different specifications. Every game that is made for the cell phone has to be ported to each phone that it wants to target and that is a huge task in itself since the cell phone market has no specifications that they all have to follow like the pc market. When it comes right down to it, it becomes alot of time, money, and man power to test every phone that you want to use espically since the network carrier doesn't tend to help you at all.

    I will say this, people who do make games for cell phones tend to make cheap games that they can run through cheaply and quickly and then spend most of thier time on the porting process, I have had the chance to talk to quite a few big makers of cell phone games through a couple of conferences that I have gone through, mostly boring financial stuff trying to get money :\

    Miadlo

  14. Lockout on cell phones by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    [My phone] has 640x200x24 screen 200Mhz cpu, 32M SDRAM, 2G mmc capable storage with 90M flash built in and the ability to play ogg/aac/mp3 with high quality stereo. It already has SDL libraries and has doom and other major graphical platforming games ported.

    So how did you convince your carrier to let you download programs to your phone instead of locking you into the limited selection of the carrier's online store? Or were you fortunate enough to have been born in Europe or east Asia instead of North America?

    1. Re:Lockout on cell phones by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      So how did you convince your carrier to let you download programs to your phone instead of locking you into the limited selection of the carrier's online store? Or were you fortunate enough to have been born in Europe or east Asia instead of North America?

      If you have a decent provider, you can do all that. For example, I have T-Mobile and they didn't lock any functionality worth mentioning out of my phone. Motorola's website will provide you with the Java App Loader program, and a tool that activates the Java App Loader menu option on the phone (IIRC, in the Java settings menu.)

      You also have the option to just go buy an unlocked phone and slap your SIM card in it, at least, if you use GSM. Manufacturers do sell their phones on the open market. There are phones that only come from specific providers, but most of them are crippled versions of other phones anyway. Of course, you pay much more that way, because no provider is footing part of the bill.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Lockout on cell phones by santiago · · Score: 1

      It's not even that much more expensive. In the case of T-Mobile, you basically get a $100 discount if you get a T-Mobile phone at the same time as a one-year contract for a plan that costs at least $40 a month, and a one-time autonomy tax of $100 isn't that much for most of us that lust after such gadgets.

      I just bought myself an unlocked Nokia 6682, available from as pedestrian a place as CompUSA for $400, which is at least as cheap as I could find it from online retailers where I would have had to wait for it. With any of the Symbian-based smartphones, primarily from Nokia but also a few from other manufacturers, you're getting a tiny computer with an OS you control, onto which you can load whatever you want through either a computer and BlueTooth or USB, or directly off the internet via a data plan. (Which, for T-Mobile, is $20 for unlimited data with a voice plan (the cheapest of which is another $20) or $30 as a standalone plan with no included minutes (and a rate of $0.20 per voice minute).)

      You may be able to do similar things with Cingular, but I've heard horror stories about their customer service, as well as at least one alleged account of a unlocked Treo 650 getting locked to their network when used with their SIM Card, with Cingular subsequently refusing to unlock it. (I'm not actually sure if such a thing is possible, though.) Their data plans are also much more expensive than T-Mobile. With the CDMA (or iDEN) providers, you're pretty much stuck in their tightly-constrained walled gardens (as well as confined to the US networks, if international use matters to you).

    3. Re:Lockout on cell phones by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Go GSM and get the phone you want and not the phone the carriers want you to have.

      I recon the first company to combine the coverage of a carrier like Verizon with no "feature locking" and an acceptable price tag will make a MINT.

    4. Re:Lockout on cell phones by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      AFAIK you can't lock a phone to a network without the IMEI number and the subsidy code, so IMO that's a bullshit story. There's lots I don't know about cellphones, though. Also, last I looked, T-Mo offered the data-only plan for like $24.95/mo.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Lockout on cell phones by tepples · · Score: 1

      If you have a decent provider, you can do all that.

      Most mobile phone carriers in the United States are not decent, and if I want to sell to the customers that the article mentions, I have to deal with such carriers.

      Manufacturers do sell their phones on the open market.

      Not in brick-and-mortar retail stores in the United States.

    6. Re:Lockout on cell phones by tepples · · Score: 1

      Go GSM and get the phone you want

      If I want people other than myself to play the game that I develop, how can I convince potential customers to spend $200 or more to do this? A $10 game that requires a $200 phone is in effect a $210 game.

    7. Re:Lockout on cell phones by TheRealDamion · · Score: 1

      I used centimetres, which indicates I'm not from North America, also the 9300i and in fact most smart phones are behind in N.A. compared to the rest of the world so that was the 2nd clue :)

      I was born in Britain, however the phone has 11meg wireless, USB (2 I think), bluetooth, IrDA, removable MMC card so obviously getting data on the phone isn't hard (well I say that, I don't(/won't) use MS Windows, so that made life especially hard*).

      It'll run any symbian binary, I've even hacked up one of my own, to use mini bluetooth serial device, as the 9500 doesn't have serial like the older 9210 did. It'll also run perl, java and well probably loads of things, there is even a PC emulator. nokia.com/phones/9500

      *I say hard, it was actually great fun, and it's on my todo list to get this working via USB under linux, and ideally talking direct PLP rather than p3nfs.

    8. Re:Lockout on cell phones by tepples · · Score: 1

      I used centimetres, which indicates I'm not from North America

      Doesn't Canada use centimetres too? Anyway, do you know of any solution to the problem of a developer's potential customers' phones being locked into carriers' own stores?

    9. Re:Lockout on cell phones by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Except that phone is useful for more than just that one game and you can sell the game in Europe where everybody has at least GSM.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    10. Re:Lockout on cell phones by tepples · · Score: 1

      Except that phone is useful for more than just that one game

      Not if the user was satisfied with his or her previous phone, and not if the user is currently in a 24-month commitment with one of those cdma networks.

      and you can sell the game in Europe where everybody has at least GSM.

      But then I would have to pay people to translate the game into several languages of continental Europe.

    11. Re:Lockout on cell phones by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      You don't have to release it Europe-wide and many arcade-like games are released untranslated here, "Press Start" and "Game Over" aren't hard to understand even for people who don't speak English.

      And hell, if you don't think a market would be significant (e.g. the US GSM phone market) then don't bother serving it.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    12. Re:Lockout on cell phones by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Manufacturers do sell their phones on the open market.

      Not in brick-and-mortar retail stores in the United States.

      Depends on the phone. A lot of 'smartphones' are sold without contract if you poke around, I believe one of the responses to me talked about buying one at best buy. Also, there is this little thing called mail order - anyone who can actually afford one of these phones without the provider discount probably knows a thing or two about it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  15. The market in Japan is huge by KNicolson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    According to a survey I translated a couple of months back, in Japan amongst the people surveyed (who would tend to be heavy phone users, due to the survey methodology) almost 40% played games regularly, and amongst these gamers, over 40% paid to download games, and over 40% downloaded at least one game a month.

  16. Code signing? by tepples · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A game can once again be made by one person

    How is this feasible for hobbyists if the major carriers require that one have a code signing license from a CA trusted by the carrier in order to test a program, and such licenses cost at least $500 per year?

    1. Re:Code signing? by jonwil · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My Motorola e378i phone has no such requirements.
      I can make whatever java applets I like and download them to the phone (although being an i-mode phone, I have to write the applets with the DoJa SDK and put them on a web page somewhere instead of writing them with the normal SDK and uploading them with MIDWay)

      Even if you live in america, you can still get a phone (either one that doesnt require signing or one that can be modified to not require signing). Some carriers (generally GSM carriers) dont require signing. Plus, you can always buy an unlocked non-carrier GSM phone and a GSM sim cart from the carrier of your choice and use that. Or you can buy a phone (from a carrier or otherwise) and modify or replace the software (either hacking it to remove the signature check or replacing the whole phone software with something that doesnt check signatures). Motorolas are particularly good when it comes to modifications (I should know, I own one :)

    2. Re:Code signing? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Plus, you can always buy an unlocked non-carrier GSM phone

      How many Americans who would be considered part of the alleged market of people who might want to play games on mobile phones know that? If you already have a cellphone and a service contract, but you need to buy a $200 unlocked phone to play a given game, the $10 game you are buying now costs $210.

    3. Re:Code signing? by wheany · · Score: 1

      Well maybe those people are not part of the market then. There are plenty of people outside the US willing to pay for cell phone games.

    4. Re:Code signing? by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      A game can once again be made by one person

      How is this feasible for hobbyists if the major carriers require that one have a code signing license from a CA trusted by the carrier in order to test a program, and such licenses cost at least $500 per year?


      If you think that $500/year is a high startup cost for a business, then I just don't know what to tell you.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
  17. Lockout chip business model by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't see any way that they're superior to the games kids write on their TI-83s when they get bored in high school.

    I tried to make a Tetris clone on a TI-83 but it ran dog slow because of the limitations of the built-in programming language's interpreter.

    Anyone who wanted a really good portable game would probably buy a handheld device made specifically for that.

    Because of the lockout chip business model, there is no way to sell shareware or donation-supported free software for Nintendo or Sony handheld video game systems. Which device sold in the United States were you talking about?

    1. Re:Lockout chip business model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to write the game in ASM if you want to run at a reasonable speed. I was doing this back in the go-go 90s on the TI-82.

    2. Re:Lockout chip business model by tepples · · Score: 1

      Pantero Blanco wrote: games kids write on their TI-83s when they get bored in high school.

      Anonymous Coward wrote: You need to write the game in ASM if you want to run at a reasonable speed.

      If you are writing the game during downtime in class by entering it into the calculator's keypad, you cannot write it in assembly language because the calculator does not have a built-in assembler.

    3. Re:Lockout chip business model by ottothecow · · Score: 1

      well, the tetris clones all run fine when coded in ASM

      --
      Bottles.
    4. Re:Lockout chip business model by tepples · · Score: 1

      You must have missed my other comment as to why assembly language does not count in the context of Pantero Blanco's comment. If you want to make a game in asm, you have to do so on your own time at home on a PC, not during slow time in class on the calculator's keypad.

  18. ... and let's toss in a blender and toaster... by rueger · · Score: 1

    Really, where do we get the insistence that phones, a perfectly utilitarian item, need to incorporate video players (which they do really poorly), games (which they also don't do very well), web browsers (oh, the pain), cameras (OK in a pinch, but still inferior) and music players...?

    In the meantime I can't even make my Moto ring like a phone instead of playing some dreadful music.

    We're rapidly reaching the point where manufacturers and cellular providers have stopped considering whether your phone will actually work as a phone.

    1. Re:... and let's toss in a blender and toaster... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      In the meantime I can't even make my Moto ring like a phone instead of playing some dreadful music.

      If you don't have bluetooth, you need Motorola Mobile Phonetools (MPT) to load your own ringtones, which can start out as mp3, mid, or wav. They provide a tool that lets you take any of the above and clip a portion out of it. It will produce an mp3 or a shorter mid which you can upload to your phone.

      If you do have bluetooth, a $10 USB bluetooth module will let you drag content to and from your phone.

      If you are a Verizon customer, you probably have to hack your phone before you can even use MPT for anything other than backing up your content - but then, if you have Verizon, you are paying the price for your lack of research, since they're about the most-complained-about provider in the US.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:... and let's toss in a blender and toaster... by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Tell that to all the people who can only get good service in all the places they go to on Verizon because the GSM carriers dont want to invest enough money to get the same coverage area as Verizon.

    3. Re:... and let's toss in a blender and toaster... by tepples · · Score: 1

      where do we get the insistence that phones, a perfectly utilitarian item, need to incorporate [...] games (which they also don't do very well)

      Because what other handheld video gaming device is there other than one designed to play only games approved by Nintendo and one designed to play only games approved by Sony? Other than phones, what handheld gaming device supports the shareware model?

    4. Re:... and let's toss in a blender and toaster... by Dehumanizer · · Score: 1

      Here's a hint for you: they already do those things way better than "not very well".

      The average cell phone, these days, is like a 1993 PC. Games from that time include Dune 2, Doom, Eye of the Beholder, etc.. Sure, they're not Half Life 2, but they're not Snakes or Pong either.

      And if you ever tried Opera Mobile, you'd be sold on mobile web browsing. Another hint: it's not like the WAP you've probably seen a couple of years ago (4 lines of text, no more).

      --
      The Tlog - a technology blog
    5. Re:... and let's toss in a blender and toaster... by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      You forgot the "sold in retail stores nationwide" qualifier you usually add so again the answer is Game Park (GP32, GP2X).

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    6. Re:... and let's toss in a blender and toaster... by fwitness · · Score: 2, Funny

      I was annoyed by my silly "ring tones" also, and pretty much everyone elses out there. So I recorded a .wav of me saying "ring" in the dullest voice I could muster every three seconds or so and uploaded to my phone as an mp3. Take that The Man!

      --
      -- I have fans? Wow.
    7. Re:... and let's toss in a blender and toaster... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your phone is worthless until it has mario sounds!

      [doodooteedoteetee]
      "Oh excuse me, it looks like I'm getting a 1-up."

  19. I have a heavy opinion on this! by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 1

    On one hand I have a perfect port of Castlevania {I} on my phone. On the other, I was playing Madden 06, and the Ref calls out a pass interferance call on .... A RUNNING PLAY!!!!

    Need for Speed Underground 2 is a decent port though.

    So, I think the differance really is in the attention to detail. It looks as good or better than many NES games though.

    Oh, the phone is a LG vx8100

    --
    How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
  20. If you saw the sales figures on big-name titles... by dhakbar · · Score: 1

    ... such as Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune, you'd just about shit your pants. They're also cheap to produce. Take one coder, one designer, and one artist, give them two months, and they have another game. Keep that up and license some big names (as my earlier game show examples) and you have one winner after another.

    Another thing to keep in mind: this industry's bread & butter is idiots who keep paying for subscribed cell phone games long after their initial purchase. When a $3 charge is added to an already long phone bill, many never notice. Enough of those make a pretty nice revenue stream.

  21. resentful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One popular view of the cellphone gaming industry is that it's the place where they exile people who couldn't cut it in the console and PC game industry.

    I resent that statement.

  22. Re:If you saw the sales figures on big-name titles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take one coder, one designer, and one artist, give them two months, and they have another game.

    3-4 months, and add 2-4 testers (but you get to share them across projects).

  23. Re:If you saw the sales figures on big-name titles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A---, Get back to work. We read this shit you know. You did sign an NDA.

  24. "Relatedly"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does anyone else question the legitimacy of "relatedly" as a word?

  25. For Some Games, It Is Market by EXTomar · · Score: 1

    Trying to get a super fantastic MMOG onto a cell phone is probably a pipe dream with current technology but that doesn't mean one can't make cell phone games work.

    Considering how a cell phone has a different human interface than a PSP and a DS, creating a game that is fun to play *and* is sane to control is a challenge but it is possible. This means that games like Battlefield 2 are probably not the best to put on a cell phone. However something more akin to Rub Rabbits, Wario Ware, or even Puzzle Pirates might be a better choice. A game that you can start simply by pulling our your phone in a place where you can't do much of anything else (picture a train or a bus), easily find another person close by to play, play a little, and then kill them game without much fuss (say someone's stop is close, having one person drop from the game should not kill the entire game for the others).

  26. Some decent by Is0m0rph · · Score: 1

    There's a few pretty good games for the cell phones. Fantasy Warrior is a nice Zelda style game with good graphics for a cell game. My mm-8300 is capable of putting out some decent 3D graphics as well.

  27. The problem is standards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    The biggest problem with mobile games right now is the huge number of phones out there (we deal with over 100+ models), and the competing technologies (BREW vs. J2ME vs. Symbian), and the fact that no two phones seem to be quite perfectly compatible. Even when two phones do share the same "platform", there are enough selfish and short-sighted implementation details and limitations that they are effectively not compatible.

    This effectively makes mobile the worst of all worlds.

    "One man" 80s-style development is a myth, because of the huge amount of porting and testing you need to do to effectively deploy a game. Sure you could just make your game for the RAZR, since that's a popular phone. But even then you're only hitting a small fraction of the market.

    And with the poor design of most phone JVMs, plus the memory/JAR size limitations, you're still limited to doing basically Pac-Man.

    BREW, despite all of its issues, is probably the most homogenous mobile game platform out right now, and is our last best hope for high quality mobile games. But BREW is expensive, proprietary and very hostile in general to hobbyists. Plus, it only has a ghost of the market share J2ME does right now.

    When you actually do manage to make a mobile game, and market it, it does tend to sell well, because as someone else mentioned - it's a niche in a HUGE market. But until we see some better mobile app platform standards, and until phone manufacturers and carriers actually stick to them, that's all mobile gaming is going to be: a cynical money-grab from an audience who will, in large enough numbers, buy pretty much anything you crap out. Mobile is the new dot-com.

  28. The $10 game that costs $210 by tepples · · Score: 1

    You forgot the "sold in retail stores nationwide" qualifier you usually add so again the answer is Game Park (GP32, GP2X).

    The point is that I don't want my customers to have to buy a $200 device, be it a mail-order GSM phone or a mail-order imported Korean game system, just to play my $10 game. One solution is to bring in economies of scale by teaming up with other developers so that we could offer several shareware titles for a given platform; how would I start to organize that?

    1. Re:The $10 game that costs $210 by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Start talking with those developers? If they don't know what you're planning they're not going to help you with it obviously.

      Or make games for PDAs and smartphones (i.e. PocketPC or Palm OS, the platforms aren't as strange as cellphone Java)? That's open and profitable enough to keep quite a few devs alive.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  29. How expensive is localization? by tepples · · Score: 1

    There are plenty of people outside the US willing to pay for cell phone games.

    Enough to hire a translator to localize the game's text into each of several languages of East Asia and continental Europe?

    1. Re:How expensive is localization? by wheany · · Score: 1

      Even if they were localized, it's not like these games are epic literary works. Most games' translatable text is pretty much "Move with directional keys, jump with "5" key. Collect gold, avoid bad guys" "Level complete" "Game over".

      And besides your point is moot anyway, since there are several companies making games for cell phones and apparently they're doing pretty well. There are literally dozens of downloadable games advertised in every gaming magazine and gossip rag where I live (Finland). I doubt they'd continue advertising for years (like they've already done) if it wasn't profitable.

  30. Mobile Gaming Will Not Fade Out by superchi · · Score: 1

    I work for a mobile games company. I will tell you that the market is not a mirage.

    It's completely unsubstantiated to say that people in this industry are people who could not cut it in the console/PC world. Tell that to:
    * Trip Hawkins (a founder of EA)
    * John Carmack (from Quake fame)
    * All the major publishers who release mobile games along with console counterparts (THQ, Electronic Arts, Ubisoft, etc).
    * All the major publishers who are re-releasing their famous console games (Konami, Capcom, Namco, etc).

    Successful people in the console/PC games market are looking for the best ways to get into the mobile games market evidenced, of course, by EA's huge buyout of Jamdat.

    Even giving thought that mobile games are limited to being bad versions of the console counterparts is plain wrong. Look at Yahoo Mobile Games. Yahoo Games has an unbelievably large gaming market that has no interest in playing console games. Many of them (who have computers) also have cell phones, and play those games as time fillers at home would play the same games as time fillers on a bus ride.

    I can't stand it when people think of something as a potential "bubble" so they think it's something from which to stay away. There was a dot-com bubble, but the Internet is still here and a growing market. The mobile application industry may be a bubble in the sense that there are some uneducated investors throwing money at half-baked developers, but that does not mean that there are no developers with solid business models and evidence of growing revenue. It is impossible to ignore the numbers. 193 million mobile handsets sold in the US alone in 2004 with a $345 million gaming market. This is doubled from the previous year.

    I will say that the industry will change many times in the next few years. Executives at major console publishers will have to learn to change their expectations in capabilities ("Why can't we make Need for Speed Underground on a device with 243 kB of RAM?"). Designers will have to come up with ideas to take advantage of networking/GPS capabilities unique to mobile. Independent developers will all die out without huge venture capital, big-name licenses, or big-name publishers to get carriers to put their games in their catalogs. The industry will think of better ways to sell games instead of "Pay me $5.99 for this game that you may only play once because it sucks," you'll see more of, "Thanks for buying the *INSERT NEXT BIG TOM CRUISE MOVIE* DVD/Theatre ticket, here is your link to download the mobile game! I hope you play it and other people see you playing it and give us more publicity for the movie!" Or in better networking environments, you'll see exactly what Flash game portals do and offer games for free if you look at an advertisement for 3 seconds.

    Anyone who thinks the industry is limited has not enough exposure to the industry or is not imaginative enough.