Slashdot Mirror
Mario All Grown Up?
Reggie Fils-Aime, frequent spokesperson for Nintendo, has a piece extolling the way in which Nintendo will disrupt the videogaming market with the release of the Revolution. His editorial uses the movie industry as a comparison, and likens the systems of Sony and Microsoft to 'flops'. From the article: "Nintendo's counterpunch is disruption. We've determined that the videogame market is ripe for revival--and we're looking to make it happen by reaching out to the millions of players still on the sidelines, including those over the age of 35. Early moves have been promising. Nintendogs, a game that allows people to train virtual puppies, has doubled the typical percentage of female purchasers, selling 1.5 million copies in about four months. Not bad, given that Nintendo DS hardware is in 4 million hands." Yeah, it's just more advertising claptrap, but the levels of hyperbole they're reaching is sort of breathtaking to behold.
.. Mario's been at those mushrooms again.
Proof by very large bribes. QED.
"Yeah, it's just more advertising claptrap"
In a time where you have other industry elites saying the video game market has topped out (EA), there's no room for growth in MMOG (Richard Garriott), many companies are just going belly up (Atari), Microsoft can't get is product to the street, the PSP is nothing more than a mini-DVD player and one of the major selling points of the PS3 is that it's a HI-DEF DVD player, Nintendo OPENED UP a new market and sold 1.5 million copies of a game to WOMEN in 4 months.
Claptrap? Nah... I think I'd listen to what the guy has to say.
If Nintendo tried to compete with Sony and Microsoft on the same level and with the same features, it would lose. Right now we can just expect familiar game licenses with new and inovative gameplay elements (IE the controller) and updated graphics.
Which is why Nintendogs is doing so well.
If game companies don't grok this, they'll be stuck with FPS that noone wants to play.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
The article says "Not bad, given that Nintendo DS hardware is in 4 million hands."
Maybe they're talking about just one market (seems unusual though, considering the DS and its games are regionless), but many I've sources claim a DS sales figure of at least 13 million units. Which means it's in around 26 million hands.
We (gamers) are being sequeled to death...
;)
we all know this... Usually we blow it off by casting the shame towards the genre we don't like as much...or point to the fewer and fewer glimmers of originality.
But this does not stop the truth we all well know.
Something needs to change.
Maybe its the publishers, maybe its the develoupment model/cycle.
Nintendo is trying to change its machine to be able to do something more than push out one polygon/sprite/bit more than its competitors.
Last time they were our saviors (NES)...maybe..just maybe...they are trying to save us again before the industry REALLY needs it.
*NOTE: trying to save us does mean they can still fall on their asses trying, not to mention how much money they made last time they *were* right
What a bunch of cock and bull
;) )
Adult != blood sex and violence.
Tell me, seriously, what any console did to attempt to attain "adulthood" besides those three things.
Show me ONE, ONE 1st party game with a complex plot no pre-teen could understand. Show me growth towards maturity...
All I saw was a bunch of puberty-like masturbation over big boobs, blood by the gallon, and violence.
(*Note: While GTA does have blood, boobs, and violence...it actually has a story, setting, and a POINT to using those three in a very provacative way. And it wasn't a 1st party title
I was explaining to someone (who does not play games) the other day what computer games are about, and since I like FPSs so much, I was explaining FPSs to her. But I felt kind of embarrased because I don't approve of or particularly like shooting things. Shooting things = tired gameplay mechanic. Violence = tired gameplay mechanic.
Compare two different concepts for Nintendogs: 1. raise and train cute puppies, 2. shoot lots of cute puppies. I rest my case, QFD.
Julian
Prolog rules
in these days of gaming that are just re-hashed vesions of previous generation games, we need a bit more innovation. there are a lot of innovative games out there, but they dont seem to be getting the prominence that they deserve. However, most companies seem content to pump out unnecessary-sequel 5, without regards to innovation. it seems even the companies normally renound for innovation are falling under this spell.
even nintendo itself. they have a lot of great titles, but seem to be increasingly padding it out with rehashes of previous stuff. Im a massive fan of mario, but do i really need another version of super mario bros? a game that was amazing on the nes, but why should i buy it on the DS? or the GBA? sure if they do anything new (like they did with mario kart ds) then ill consider it.
i would love to play an completely new mario game on the DS, not one that looks like its just a level redesign (from the few leaked shots ive seen so far). maybe im becoming jaded and looking at the gaming past through rose tinted glasses, but to me it seems that the games industry needs a good swift kick up the behind and get its ideas in shape (and give those designers who actually have loads of good ideas a chance).
Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.
They're not just going after the kiddie market. Some of us don't want or need mature-themed games to have a good time.
I like a good RPG. I've played my share of Final Fantasy and whatnot, but you know what my favorite recent RPG is? Paper Mario. Why? Because it's fun.
Want a pick up and play sports title? It's certainly not Madden. Heck, my dad bought a GameCube for one game after seeing me play Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour. He hadn't played a game since he and my mom owned a 2600, and he was winning tourneys inside of an hour.
That being said, the GameCube does have some more mature games, too. Off the top of my head, there's Eternal Darkness, Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes, and Resident Evil 4.
Take a look at the Nintendo library. The library is age and taste-independant because they aren't going after the "OMG bump mapping!" crowd. They're after the "That was fun, I want that!" crowd.
Gorier != better. More mature != better. More fun == better.
e2 | LJ
The hell with Mario, I want her!
Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
-kfg
because gameplay is weak and games are intimidating and hard to use? It's true in my case. More to the point, previously "hardcore" gamers are, I think, being pushed into the "non-hardcore" camp.
Games are what brought me to the PC from Unix platforms in the late '80s and early '90s (well, games and Linux). I am the ideal market: male, 20s-30s, very technical, able and willing to assemble my own systems and very, shall we say, "intrigued" by ever-faster and sexier hardware.
For a long time before I started with PC games, I was a rabid text-based adventure and Nethack fan. But the graphics and variety of PC platform games were just too sexy to me and by the mid-to-late'90s, I was what I would consider to be a hardcore gamer: SMP, relentless video card upgrades, lots of RAM, RAID for faster level loads, CD changers to play multi-disc games more smoothly, 21" monitor, etc., moving into console platforms, buying just about every game that came out...
But it all tapered off somehow. Games would feel less engrossing, or the keyboard learning curve would be so high that I wouldn't play it after I'd bought it. At first, it was just one or two games that I wasn't bothering to complete, but by the time I had the latest 10 or 15 titles in my hands and a system that could play them all, yet I hadn't finished any of them and found myself preferring to do other things instead, I realized that this gaming thing was becoming a worse investment since I didn't seem to be enjoying it as much... and my game buying tapered off.
In retrospect, though I played a bunch of FPS games all the way through, the games that I find most memorable (and that I still own long after most of my game library has gone the eBay way) are the games that today's "hardcore" gamers ruthlessly mock. I still own Myst, Riven, Zork Nemesis, the Ultima series (including Ultima IX: Ascension), the King's Quest series (including Mask of Eternity), and so on. In short, they're primarily adventure-driven games whose interfaces and schemas are not so complex that one must spend two weeks in "learning curve" mode before actually having any fun.
I have some friends who still game all the latest titles, but I've tried them and they're just not that entertaining. There's nothing for the imagination there. You simply mindlessly flail about on your keyboard with ultra-complex controls while trying to blast things. Rather than being revealed to you through experience, evidence, and events (as was strongly the case with, for example, Myst or Riven), stories are simply told to you in annoying pages-long sessions of reading or long monologues by animated characters that I don't care about and that punctuate the otherwise mindless action.
In short, most games aren't fun anymore. The past is full of great games in dead genres. Text- or command-based adventure (i.e. Infocom games, early Sierra games), text-based RPG (Nethack, Rogue, et. al.), graphical adventure (Myst, Riven, Sanitarium, Obsidian, Grim Fandango, a million other amazing titles), action-adventure (Ultima IX: Ascention, Mask of Eternity, Nocturne), action platform/scroller (NOX, Gauntlet, Flashback), strategy (Civilization, Heroes of Might and Magic, Alpha Centauri).
I can't really think of any FPS, pure role-playing, racing, or sports computer games that are at the top of my list... Yet that's all that's on the market today. Compare to 1997, when the shelves were full of imaginative games in many genres. It's as though the improvement in graphics has pushed the "reality" paradigm to the forefront, leaving no room in the marketplace for "fantasy," which is really the only reason I ever played games to begin with. I want to go to other worlds that don't bear too big a resemblance to mine, and to enjoy myself while I'm there (i.e. it shouldn't feel like work).
Instead, today's games have a very high learning curve (trying to learn to play one of them feels like being in school, you can't just pick up as you go, and the controls demand full attention, not leisurely
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
I don't think it's that women find games too complex, I think it's that they find currently offered games:
1. too boring (FPS bang bang bleed bleed no challenge after first time);
2. too involved (takes 30 minutes before it really kicks in, hard to pause, save takes forever);
3. not group-oriented (sure, you can battle faceless opponents worldwide via wifi, but can you play with your neighbors or coworkers at lunch?);
4. too action-oriented not cooperative.
Many studies have shown that most games fail on those counts for women and girls. And last time I checked, they had lots of disposable income to spend on that, instead of on the latest Beach Volleyball game.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
"If anything I think the PSP is increasing the market or perhaps people just have both it certainly is not distracting from the DS sales."
Not quite- the people buying PSP's are your normal gamers. The people buying DS's are the non-gamers- Nintendo is the one increasing the market. That's why you have the DS selling as many as 600,000 units in a single week and the top selling software charts (especially in Japan) being *dominated) by DS titles, because Nintendo has tapped into a new market.
"But so what? The gameboy always sold well. It was the 'main' consoles that Nintendo has been having troubles with. So this is like saying, Pokemon GB/GBA sold well so the Playstation 1/2 were a flop."
Can you read? Alternatively, do you just choose not to? You've missed the point entirely. First of all, the Gameboy is marketed at gamers, nothing disruptive about that. Quite different from the DS, which is marketed to non-gamers as well. Secondly, you assume a direct correlation, which, admittedly, is pretty stupid. I believe the implication being made was that the DS's immense success is proof that a market of non-gamers is out there. Beyond that, I don't think anyone he said the PS3 would be a flop for any reason at all. Did you actually read what he said?
"Oh and then comes the old sales pitch. Simple. Yes, we are going to reach that part of the market that is to dumb to figure out a lightswitch. Someone should really tell marketing people that there will always be people who claim X is to complex and they will buy X the moment it reaches their level of understanding. Problem is you can't. As long as their are people who are confused by revolving doors or even those who push when it says pull you will have people who can't figure out X."
Oh wow, your big rebuttal is accusing Nintendo of marketing to retards? You must be completely ignorant- what Reggie and Iwata have been saying all along is that they're trying to draw in people who don't play games period, people who have never felt the urge to pick up a controller. I find it interesting you equate these people with those who can't turn on a light switch or operate a revolving door. That tells me a bit about how you view people not as technologically inclined as yourself.
"Marketing to them is stupid. Why? Because you are insulting the intelligence of everyone else. Don't believe me? How many of you actually like using dumbed down products with zero options to confuse you? Oh don't get me wrong. They are nice at first, when you are still new and unsure of what to do. And then you move on and want more."
Again, you're looking this from your perspective. You need to think like a technophobe, where holding a controller with a thousand buttons is daunting. Not everyone wants to sit at their computer for 20 hours straight playing the latest MMO, some people just want to have a few minutes of fun and then go on and do something else. That's why Wario Ware is popular- it only uses one button! Super Monkey Ball uses *no* buttons! Neither does Katamari Damacy. Quit acting like your mindset is the standard, because it's not.
"Part of the fun for me in playing a game is learning to play it. I think it is true with any type of game. The basics are simple but as you move on it becomes more and more complex. You can play chess just fine without knowing the more obscure rules like that move where you can switch the king and towers BUT the game will become deeper and more challenging as you learn more."
Then don't buy a DS or Revolution! It's as simple as that! Nintendo's new strategy is quite obviously not your cup of tea, so just refrain from patronizing it. I don't see why you have to assume that since YOU don't like it, NOBODY will, and therefore is a stupid marketing strategy. That's rather egocentric of you.
"Oh and as for nintendogz attracting females to play and that being the road to success. Sorry but if women were the road to success the PC would be the top console. The Sims and similar games are dominated by women
Would like to point out that there are FAR more than 13 final fantasy games.
Sure, 1-12, and X2.
Then Tactics.
Then Tactics Advance.
Then all the weird chocobo adventure/Gameboy titles that really sucked.
All the re-releases, like Final Fantasy Origins and Dawn of Souls and such...
Don't forget about the tons of new FF7 stuff coming out. (Dirge of Cerebus, Advent Children, w/e else)
And last and least, Final Fantasy Pong. What? Hasn't come out yet? Well, it will.
Nintendo is behind the times... Right...
How many console staples were first implimented by Nintendo? Just in control schemes: Directional Pad, shoulder buttons, rumble packs, analog sticks, touch screens, and soon motion sensors. Yup, they're a follower all right.
As for being the 'kiddy console' you can't be further from reality. Nintendo appears to be looking at the big picture, and offering stuff for everyone. Including the 'adult' demographic. Or is Resident Evil as kiddy game? Seems to me that MS and Sony have a bit of tunnel vision on their market. They're aiming at a very specific demographic: The adolescent male. (These are the kids who are old enough to have some income, and young enough to consider 'kiddy' games a threat to their masculinity)
The rest of us are quite excited to try something new that isn't another WW2 FPS.
I think he is referring to the 'adult gamer' demographic that require sex and/or gratuitous violence for a game to be good. The kind of teenagers who feel playing a Mario game would bring their heterosexuality into question.
The rest of us (who are actually adults) are an entirely different category.
Part of the fun for me in playing a game is learning to play it. I think it is true with any type of game. The basics are simple but as you move on it becomes more and more complex. You can play chess just fine without knowing the more obscure rules like that move where you can switch the king and towers BUT the game will become deeper and more challenging as you learn more.
Same with other games. Say a FPS. A game with no stances is simpler as it saves 1-2 or even 3 buttons to learn BUT having the option makes the game deeper and more challenging.
I disagree. I am a 21-year-old male and I find contemporary console FPS and GTA-like games confusing, over-complicated, difficult to control, and on the whole poorly designed. I don't want to have to remember what a million buttons do. I always get killed because I hit reload instead of shoot. When I sit down with a console at a friend's house to have a casual match, I get my ass kicked because the buttons are too numerous and cumbersome (ok, yeah, I also suck, but give me a n00b bonus, heheh).
Contrast that with games like Donkey Konga, Mario Party, and PacPix. I have had an insane amount of fun playing those games with friends and alone because I can pick it up, play it within 1 minute, and have a great time. A complex and engrossing story and concept should not imply or require complex controls.
Shouldn't You expect more from your DJ?
You know, if there were negative consequences in the game, I could see that ... but, there aren't. You leave your dog alone for a month or two, and it has fleas. A minute later, no fleas, and he seems to have forgotten all about the alone time.
Your dog can never grow up, never get old, never die, and will never care too much if you dont touch it for years, or not feed it, or replace it with another dog.
The only example I really think is needed to prove Nintendo's widespread appeal should be quite obvious. Ocarina of Time had something for everyone: A fairly good story, lots of exploring, easy but enjoyable combat (the boss battle in the Shadow Temple was insanely fun), and the game explained enough that the younger crowd could understand what was going on. Ignoring the fact that Navi was the most irritating sidekick known to mankind, the rest of the game was absolutely outstanding from start to finish.
Moving to a non-Nintendo example of a more "mature" game that didn't require copious amounts of blood would be Freelancer. It was somewhat open ended, also had a decent plot (not the best, but enjoyable), and there was a lot to do between major story points. The game was easy to play without insulting your intelligence, and if you find a good server online, it's actually a lot of fun to get 5 or 6 people together and do some mercenary or trade runs (having to protect the one guy hauling a crapload of moneymaking goods through extremely hostile territory while trusting that whatever friend is hauling the goods isn't gonna do something stupid, like run off and get killed, makes for some intense gameplay).
Either way, the point remains as the previous poster stated. Games don't have to have gallons of blood, giant breasts, or be horrifically violent to be "mature." Shadow of the Colossus is a mature game more for it's dark atmosphere and moral ambiguity than any amount of violence. Indigo Prophecy (or Fahrenheit to those on the other side of the pond) has elements that would bore younger gamers because there's not enough "action". It all goes to show that too many people equate "mature" games with things that children shouldn't be allowed to see, rather than gameplay that engages the individual on a level where being older and wiser is an advantage.
"So after all this, you make my case for me. To end this stalemate, you must die..."
And that isn't good because...?
It's supposed to be exactly that : not expensive, not a burden, just a game.
YOU are trying to make it some kind of dog-owner training. You are wrong and foolish to do so.
It's a game geared at little girls, not you, and not "if you treat your virtual dog well enough, I'll buy you a REAL one!" (for cripe's sake I hope you do not have children you said this to)
While I am a blatent Dreamcast fanboy I dont think anyone can dispute that the Dreamcast wupped the crap out of the Playstation and the N64. It took the PS2 two years of its life span to start making games that looked better (and in my most assuredly fanboy opinion never made games as fun.) You dont have to believe my hearsay though just look at its specs. Its easily twice as powerful as the PS probably nearing twice that of the N64.
Itd should probably be
.
.
Gen 4: Playstation / N64
Gen 4.5: Dreamcast / (possibly PS2)
Gen 5: Xbox / Gamecube / (possibly PS2)
Gen 6: Xbox 360 (its out now... aint it?)
Probably need a Gen 4.75 for the PS2 or some such. (The N64 technically wupped the PS however Nintendo dropped the ball by keeping cartridges both the Playstation and the Dreamcast utilised textures to impressive effect. The N64 didnt have the room and nearly any head way it gained in power was utilised in making its limited textures not look crappy. The real kick to the nuts being that if Nintendo had stuck with the CD drive they would probably be in Sony's dominant position today, seeing as the playstation was more or less a result of working with Nintendo to get them the CD drive in the first place.)
Getting back to the topic I believe hes probably talking about the NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube as the four generations.
Keep in mind that the article was written by the Executing VP of Sales and Marketing for Nintendo of America. He's talking about his company, which has had four generations of home consoles:
Nintendo
Super Nintendo
N64
Gamecube