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Mario All Grown Up?
Reggie Fils-Aime, frequent spokesperson for Nintendo, has a piece extolling the way in which Nintendo will disrupt the videogaming market with the release of the Revolution. His editorial uses the movie industry as a comparison, and likens the systems of Sony and Microsoft to 'flops'. From the article: "Nintendo's counterpunch is disruption. We've determined that the videogame market is ripe for revival--and we're looking to make it happen by reaching out to the millions of players still on the sidelines, including those over the age of 35. Early moves have been promising. Nintendogs, a game that allows people to train virtual puppies, has doubled the typical percentage of female purchasers, selling 1.5 million copies in about four months. Not bad, given that Nintendo DS hardware is in 4 million hands." Yeah, it's just more advertising claptrap, but the levels of hyperbole they're reaching is sort of breathtaking to behold.
.. Mario's been at those mushrooms again.
Proof by very large bribes. QED.
"Yeah, it's just more advertising claptrap"
In a time where you have other industry elites saying the video game market has topped out (EA), there's no room for growth in MMOG (Richard Garriott), many companies are just going belly up (Atari), Microsoft can't get is product to the street, the PSP is nothing more than a mini-DVD player and one of the major selling points of the PS3 is that it's a HI-DEF DVD player, Nintendo OPENED UP a new market and sold 1.5 million copies of a game to WOMEN in 4 months.
Claptrap? Nah... I think I'd listen to what the guy has to say.
If Nintendo tried to compete with Sony and Microsoft on the same level and with the same features, it would lose. Right now we can just expect familiar game licenses with new and inovative gameplay elements (IE the controller) and updated graphics.
Which is why Nintendogs is doing so well.
If game companies don't grok this, they'll be stuck with FPS that noone wants to play.
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Are we talking about prostitution or video games?
I think the invisible hand of the market has its middle finger extended
--A wise old fart named SC0RN
Every time I enconter the phrase "polarizing (group1) and (group2)" I think that people really need to play with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaroid
The article says "Not bad, given that Nintendo DS hardware is in 4 million hands."
Maybe they're talking about just one market (seems unusual though, considering the DS and its games are regionless), but many I've sources claim a DS sales figure of at least 13 million units. Which means it's in around 26 million hands.
Didja ever consider that Nintendogs might be good practice before getting the real thing? (Y'know, before the adopter decides the dog is too much of a hassle and drops it off at the shelter but not before letting it run loose so it makes another litter of 20 puppies?)
We've determined that the videogame market is ripe for revival
How can the market be ripe for revival when it's not even dead? Unless if that was meant to read Nintendo's console market. I have seen no signs of Sony's and Microsoft's consoles suffering from lack of sales.
We (gamers) are being sequeled to death...
;)
we all know this... Usually we blow it off by casting the shame towards the genre we don't like as much...or point to the fewer and fewer glimmers of originality.
But this does not stop the truth we all well know.
Something needs to change.
Maybe its the publishers, maybe its the develoupment model/cycle.
Nintendo is trying to change its machine to be able to do something more than push out one polygon/sprite/bit more than its competitors.
Last time they were our saviors (NES)...maybe..just maybe...they are trying to save us again before the industry REALLY needs it.
*NOTE: trying to save us does mean they can still fall on their asses trying, not to mention how much money they made last time they *were* right
What a bunch of cock and bull
;) )
Adult != blood sex and violence.
Tell me, seriously, what any console did to attempt to attain "adulthood" besides those three things.
Show me ONE, ONE 1st party game with a complex plot no pre-teen could understand. Show me growth towards maturity...
All I saw was a bunch of puberty-like masturbation over big boobs, blood by the gallon, and violence.
(*Note: While GTA does have blood, boobs, and violence...it actually has a story, setting, and a POINT to using those three in a very provacative way. And it wasn't a 1st party title
I was explaining to someone (who does not play games) the other day what computer games are about, and since I like FPSs so much, I was explaining FPSs to her. But I felt kind of embarrased because I don't approve of or particularly like shooting things. Shooting things = tired gameplay mechanic. Violence = tired gameplay mechanic.
Compare two different concepts for Nintendogs: 1. raise and train cute puppies, 2. shoot lots of cute puppies. I rest my case, QFD.
Julian
Prolog rules
Nintendo's new controller seems anything but simple: you actually move your arms around as you would when utilizing a similar tool in real life. On the PS3 and the Xbox you're twiddling your thumbs. (Will this be the Revolution's marketing slogan?)
in these days of gaming that are just re-hashed vesions of previous generation games, we need a bit more innovation. there are a lot of innovative games out there, but they dont seem to be getting the prominence that they deserve. However, most companies seem content to pump out unnecessary-sequel 5, without regards to innovation. it seems even the companies normally renound for innovation are falling under this spell.
even nintendo itself. they have a lot of great titles, but seem to be increasingly padding it out with rehashes of previous stuff. Im a massive fan of mario, but do i really need another version of super mario bros? a game that was amazing on the nes, but why should i buy it on the DS? or the GBA? sure if they do anything new (like they did with mario kart ds) then ill consider it.
i would love to play an completely new mario game on the DS, not one that looks like its just a level redesign (from the few leaked shots ive seen so far). maybe im becoming jaded and looking at the gaming past through rose tinted glasses, but to me it seems that the games industry needs a good swift kick up the behind and get its ideas in shape (and give those designers who actually have loads of good ideas a chance).
Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.
*WHOOOSH*
the sound of the entire point zooming over your head.
The point was
"When was the last time you saw ANY big push in female/non-typical gamer buying a game for Sony anything, or Xbox anything"
Nintendo isn't saying "OMG LOOK WE CAN SELL GAMES TOO"
Nintendo IS saying "OMG LOOK THERE ARE CUSTOMERS WITHOUT PENISES! Maybe its time the industry grew up out of its current Frat marketing and develoupment cylce before we no longer can awaken from the hangover of the easy booze (male purchasing dollars)"
They're not just going after the kiddie market. Some of us don't want or need mature-themed games to have a good time.
I like a good RPG. I've played my share of Final Fantasy and whatnot, but you know what my favorite recent RPG is? Paper Mario. Why? Because it's fun.
Want a pick up and play sports title? It's certainly not Madden. Heck, my dad bought a GameCube for one game after seeing me play Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour. He hadn't played a game since he and my mom owned a 2600, and he was winning tourneys inside of an hour.
That being said, the GameCube does have some more mature games, too. Off the top of my head, there's Eternal Darkness, Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes, and Resident Evil 4.
Take a look at the Nintendo library. The library is age and taste-independant because they aren't going after the "OMG bump mapping!" crowd. They're after the "That was fun, I want that!" crowd.
Gorier != better. More mature != better. More fun == better.
e2 | LJ
I think a pre-teen could understand the story, but I thought ICO was very mature and well thought out. It was a first-party title for the PS2 (assuming I remember correctly).
e2 | LJ
The hell with Mario, I want her!
Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
-kfg
11 year old demographic? I think not. You've got some issues to do with whilst I go play Mario Kart DS, a game that is clearly made for EVERYONE.
A barbie game? That's for 11 year olds. Mario's for everyone. Deal with it or begone.
because gameplay is weak and games are intimidating and hard to use? It's true in my case. More to the point, previously "hardcore" gamers are, I think, being pushed into the "non-hardcore" camp.
Games are what brought me to the PC from Unix platforms in the late '80s and early '90s (well, games and Linux). I am the ideal market: male, 20s-30s, very technical, able and willing to assemble my own systems and very, shall we say, "intrigued" by ever-faster and sexier hardware.
For a long time before I started with PC games, I was a rabid text-based adventure and Nethack fan. But the graphics and variety of PC platform games were just too sexy to me and by the mid-to-late'90s, I was what I would consider to be a hardcore gamer: SMP, relentless video card upgrades, lots of RAM, RAID for faster level loads, CD changers to play multi-disc games more smoothly, 21" monitor, etc., moving into console platforms, buying just about every game that came out...
But it all tapered off somehow. Games would feel less engrossing, or the keyboard learning curve would be so high that I wouldn't play it after I'd bought it. At first, it was just one or two games that I wasn't bothering to complete, but by the time I had the latest 10 or 15 titles in my hands and a system that could play them all, yet I hadn't finished any of them and found myself preferring to do other things instead, I realized that this gaming thing was becoming a worse investment since I didn't seem to be enjoying it as much... and my game buying tapered off.
In retrospect, though I played a bunch of FPS games all the way through, the games that I find most memorable (and that I still own long after most of my game library has gone the eBay way) are the games that today's "hardcore" gamers ruthlessly mock. I still own Myst, Riven, Zork Nemesis, the Ultima series (including Ultima IX: Ascension), the King's Quest series (including Mask of Eternity), and so on. In short, they're primarily adventure-driven games whose interfaces and schemas are not so complex that one must spend two weeks in "learning curve" mode before actually having any fun.
I have some friends who still game all the latest titles, but I've tried them and they're just not that entertaining. There's nothing for the imagination there. You simply mindlessly flail about on your keyboard with ultra-complex controls while trying to blast things. Rather than being revealed to you through experience, evidence, and events (as was strongly the case with, for example, Myst or Riven), stories are simply told to you in annoying pages-long sessions of reading or long monologues by animated characters that I don't care about and that punctuate the otherwise mindless action.
In short, most games aren't fun anymore. The past is full of great games in dead genres. Text- or command-based adventure (i.e. Infocom games, early Sierra games), text-based RPG (Nethack, Rogue, et. al.), graphical adventure (Myst, Riven, Sanitarium, Obsidian, Grim Fandango, a million other amazing titles), action-adventure (Ultima IX: Ascention, Mask of Eternity, Nocturne), action platform/scroller (NOX, Gauntlet, Flashback), strategy (Civilization, Heroes of Might and Magic, Alpha Centauri).
I can't really think of any FPS, pure role-playing, racing, or sports computer games that are at the top of my list... Yet that's all that's on the market today. Compare to 1997, when the shelves were full of imaginative games in many genres. It's as though the improvement in graphics has pushed the "reality" paradigm to the forefront, leaving no room in the marketplace for "fantasy," which is really the only reason I ever played games to begin with. I want to go to other worlds that don't bear too big a resemblance to mine, and to enjoy myself while I'm there (i.e. it shouldn't feel like work).
Instead, today's games have a very high learning curve (trying to learn to play one of them feels like being in school, you can't just pick up as you go, and the controls demand full attention, not leisurely
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Are you suggesting the market of video games that is acceptable for minors to play as the same as the children's market? Or that all of Nintendo's games are like Pokemon? (In my humble opinion, that is a game for kids)
Am I open minded towards open source, or closed minded towards closed source?
well, you're probably only counting US titles.
A lot of people play Mah Jong and Karate games on DS handhelds in Japan, for example, or sports games which are very popular worldwide - with networked DS fantasy sports teams.
When reading analyses of markets, always ask yourself - which market? US? World? Euro? Japan?
I normally presume we're talking world market.
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I don't think it's that women find games too complex, I think it's that they find currently offered games:
1. too boring (FPS bang bang bleed bleed no challenge after first time);
2. too involved (takes 30 minutes before it really kicks in, hard to pause, save takes forever);
3. not group-oriented (sure, you can battle faceless opponents worldwide via wifi, but can you play with your neighbors or coworkers at lunch?);
4. too action-oriented not cooperative.
Many studies have shown that most games fail on those counts for women and girls. And last time I checked, they had lots of disposable income to spend on that, instead of on the latest Beach Volleyball game.
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Probably true. The only problem with this is that if dogs are their thing, those 1.5 million people could have adopted real puppies instead and saved them from being put to sleep.
Yeah, but you're assuming they want to:
a. have to clean up after the dog.
b. want the dog to grow up.
c. want to keep the same dog.
d. want to have to drive to the dog park in the pouring rain or snow or the dog gets unruly when they're having to do the laundry and pick up the kids.
Virtual dogs have none of these problems, plus when you have to do something, you just put them on pause. Plus, if you get bored with your German Shepherd puppy, you can buy the Chihuahua version and you've got four new puppies to play with!
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Just listen to the way he talks and is very obvious that he has not grown up.
He may look like an adult, but he is still a teenager at heart.
No, nintendogz is a nice game and it may have sold to women but frankly if Nintendo is betting their future on this then they are doomed.
I think you missed both the point of my post AND the original post. It seems to claim that selling 1.5 million games on a handheld is going to doom the PS3 and 360. I claim bullshit. You lap it up.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
IMHO, adult gamers are 18 year olds with an immature mind who just need to grow up.
OK, why?
Over 18 (well over)
Pay bills on time
No credit card debt
Married
Employed, shows up to work on time, gets good reviews (and no, not at McDonald's, I'm a senior software engineer)
Avid reader
Gamer
So, other than games, how am I not grown up and immature?
"If anything I think the PSP is increasing the market or perhaps people just have both it certainly is not distracting from the DS sales."
Not quite- the people buying PSP's are your normal gamers. The people buying DS's are the non-gamers- Nintendo is the one increasing the market. That's why you have the DS selling as many as 600,000 units in a single week and the top selling software charts (especially in Japan) being *dominated) by DS titles, because Nintendo has tapped into a new market.
"But so what? The gameboy always sold well. It was the 'main' consoles that Nintendo has been having troubles with. So this is like saying, Pokemon GB/GBA sold well so the Playstation 1/2 were a flop."
Can you read? Alternatively, do you just choose not to? You've missed the point entirely. First of all, the Gameboy is marketed at gamers, nothing disruptive about that. Quite different from the DS, which is marketed to non-gamers as well. Secondly, you assume a direct correlation, which, admittedly, is pretty stupid. I believe the implication being made was that the DS's immense success is proof that a market of non-gamers is out there. Beyond that, I don't think anyone he said the PS3 would be a flop for any reason at all. Did you actually read what he said?
"Oh and then comes the old sales pitch. Simple. Yes, we are going to reach that part of the market that is to dumb to figure out a lightswitch. Someone should really tell marketing people that there will always be people who claim X is to complex and they will buy X the moment it reaches their level of understanding. Problem is you can't. As long as their are people who are confused by revolving doors or even those who push when it says pull you will have people who can't figure out X."
Oh wow, your big rebuttal is accusing Nintendo of marketing to retards? You must be completely ignorant- what Reggie and Iwata have been saying all along is that they're trying to draw in people who don't play games period, people who have never felt the urge to pick up a controller. I find it interesting you equate these people with those who can't turn on a light switch or operate a revolving door. That tells me a bit about how you view people not as technologically inclined as yourself.
"Marketing to them is stupid. Why? Because you are insulting the intelligence of everyone else. Don't believe me? How many of you actually like using dumbed down products with zero options to confuse you? Oh don't get me wrong. They are nice at first, when you are still new and unsure of what to do. And then you move on and want more."
Again, you're looking this from your perspective. You need to think like a technophobe, where holding a controller with a thousand buttons is daunting. Not everyone wants to sit at their computer for 20 hours straight playing the latest MMO, some people just want to have a few minutes of fun and then go on and do something else. That's why Wario Ware is popular- it only uses one button! Super Monkey Ball uses *no* buttons! Neither does Katamari Damacy. Quit acting like your mindset is the standard, because it's not.
"Part of the fun for me in playing a game is learning to play it. I think it is true with any type of game. The basics are simple but as you move on it becomes more and more complex. You can play chess just fine without knowing the more obscure rules like that move where you can switch the king and towers BUT the game will become deeper and more challenging as you learn more."
Then don't buy a DS or Revolution! It's as simple as that! Nintendo's new strategy is quite obviously not your cup of tea, so just refrain from patronizing it. I don't see why you have to assume that since YOU don't like it, NOBODY will, and therefore is a stupid marketing strategy. That's rather egocentric of you.
"Oh and as for nintendogz attracting females to play and that being the road to success. Sorry but if women were the road to success the PC would be the top console. The Sims and similar games are dominated by women
Why is it that when you believe something it's an opinion, but when I believe something it's a manifesto?
Nintendo is behind the times... Right...
How many console staples were first implimented by Nintendo? Just in control schemes: Directional Pad, shoulder buttons, rumble packs, analog sticks, touch screens, and soon motion sensors. Yup, they're a follower all right.
As for being the 'kiddy console' you can't be further from reality. Nintendo appears to be looking at the big picture, and offering stuff for everyone. Including the 'adult' demographic. Or is Resident Evil as kiddy game? Seems to me that MS and Sony have a bit of tunnel vision on their market. They're aiming at a very specific demographic: The adolescent male. (These are the kids who are old enough to have some income, and young enough to consider 'kiddy' games a threat to their masculinity)
The rest of us are quite excited to try something new that isn't another WW2 FPS.
I think he is referring to the 'adult gamer' demographic that require sex and/or gratuitous violence for a game to be good. The kind of teenagers who feel playing a Mario game would bring their heterosexuality into question.
The rest of us (who are actually adults) are an entirely different category.
Sup mods, mod this guy up for a well made rebuttal.
Just FYI, Xbox has never really targeted adolescent, it's been for adults from day 1. Of course, teens are going to want to play it, but that's not who Microsoft makes games for and that's not who they market the console to.
Sony, I think, tries to be all things to all people. I look at it more this way: Nintendo - Family Friendly, Xbox - Adult, Sony - Little of both.
Of course there are always exceptions to the rule. Spyro the Dragon came out on Xbox, and Resident Evil 4 came out on Gamecube. But for the most part, that's how it lines up.
Comment of the year
I wonder how big that demographic actually is. Of the people that I know that are gamers, I can think of only one that fits that, and that may be borderline (won't play Wind Waker because of the "kiddie" graphics). Everyone else is happy playing a good game, violent or not.
Drop in Halo 2 and hop on Xbox Live. You'll HEAR the little bastards. (It's evil)
Remember, these are basically kids who have very little financial responsibility (High school, still live at home) but probably have some income from a part time job. They have money to burn, and an excess of time. It's a ripe demographic, but I think it's being saturated.
Also, I think the industry is partially to blame for the excess of 'Adult' titles out there. There is still a general assumption that video games are a kids thing, and the developers want to change that. They want the shake the 'kiddie' label, and the easiest way to make something 'adult' is to add graphic violence and/or boobies. (Keep in mind that this doesn't apply to all developers, it's just a generalization)
Not quite what I meant. There are those out there that think violence is the be all and end all of a game. How many adult gamers (not high schoolers) are in that demographic, relatively speaking? In my experience, it's less than 5% of adult gamers that fit that. Of course, this is in people I personally know and interact with offline, so YMMV.
Less than 20% of games coming out are "M", so I wouldn't call it an excess. An excess of negative publicity for sure.
I don't think people realize what kind of games the revolution is going to offer.
:) I want to see what this cooking game idea looks like. :)
I mean it hinted at a lot of things to come...
1. Conduct your own orchastra/symphony.
2. Cook food. Chop up food quickly... ect.
3. Cool sword fights.
4. More natural type of baseball bat swing.
A real revolution? Yup.
I really wish I had mod points to mod this down right now. People like you are exactly representative of the market that Nintendo isn't marketing toward - people who don't understand that there is more to gaming than the same rehashed genres and sequels with ever increasing "features."
Games don't have to be overly complex affairs. Some of us just don't have time to sit and devote hours of our time to learning and mastering a complex game. I used to be into complex RPGs that required insane amounts of time when I was younger, but these days I just don't have time for that any more. I want something I can pick up and play right away, and which I can comfortably play for half an hour or so and just have fun with.
That's where Nintendo's strength is - they've figured out that there are a lot of people like me that just want simple, quick, easy-to-access fun.
Consider the DS versus the PSP:
PSP analog stick plus buttons.
DS, directional pad, plus buttons, plus touch screen, plus microphone. It has an expansion slot, used for the Metroid Prime pinball rumble pack. (I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo eventually created a gyro controller add-on cartridge, and you can already play WarioWare Twisted on it.)
It has got a more complex control scheme than a PSP.
It's got a ton of control options, but the "simple" games, such as Nintendogs, use the touch screen because it is very intuitive (this is why the mouse caught on with PCs).
But the touch screen itself is a complex piece of technology compared to what came before. However, its complexity is hidden from the user. Does anyone remember Seaman for the Dreamcast? In that game you have a hand you control on screen using the joystick and various buttons. It is a clunky, clumsy control scheme, though the game is still good. Now, imagine Seaman on the DS (or Revolution). The control scheme is the same, but it appears less complex to the user. On the DS, you use your own actual finger or the stylus to tap on the 'glass.' What's really happened is that you've gone from a more primative control to a more sophisticated one.
Like the DS, the Revolution control will have an expansion slot. The Revolution control will be able to duplicate the function of a Wavebird, and will also be able to do other stuff. Nintendo is attempting to appeal to a wider audience by removing the clunkiness that inhibits current control schemes making it possible to get to the game without fighting the interface.
I've been playing a lot of Killer 7 lately. When I play it, I think how much better a game it would be if I used a Revolution controller. (That specific example is tailor made, but I also think a more conventional title, Metroid Prime would control better.)
I don't count Sony out, I'm sure they won't die without a fight. (And if they sense their death approaching, I'm sure they'll try to drag down the video game industry with them, because they are right bastards.)
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
Beat Trauma Center: Under the Knife. Then you can come back and tell me that Nintendo's interface designs are for retards, if you really want to. In fact, I defy you to even beat Pac-Pix.
Part of the fun for me in playing a game is learning to play it. I think it is true with any type of game. The basics are simple but as you move on it becomes more and more complex. You can play chess just fine without knowing the more obscure rules like that move where you can switch the king and towers BUT the game will become deeper and more challenging as you learn more.
Same with other games. Say a FPS. A game with no stances is simpler as it saves 1-2 or even 3 buttons to learn BUT having the option makes the game deeper and more challenging.
I disagree. I am a 21-year-old male and I find contemporary console FPS and GTA-like games confusing, over-complicated, difficult to control, and on the whole poorly designed. I don't want to have to remember what a million buttons do. I always get killed because I hit reload instead of shoot. When I sit down with a console at a friend's house to have a casual match, I get my ass kicked because the buttons are too numerous and cumbersome (ok, yeah, I also suck, but give me a n00b bonus, heheh).
Contrast that with games like Donkey Konga, Mario Party, and PacPix. I have had an insane amount of fun playing those games with friends and alone because I can pick it up, play it within 1 minute, and have a great time. A complex and engrossing story and concept should not imply or require complex controls.
Shouldn't You expect more from your DJ?
I agree, most people lose sight of that :-)
There are lots of casual or semi-casual gamers out there that only have time for a short game, or want a fun, not-so-complex game.
While I love RPGs and complex strategy games, I find myself playing shorter games or distractions - like a sports game for example - most of the time.
And the GameCube is wonderful for multiplayer. A friend of mine owns all 3 major consoles, but when we gather, if we do play a console, it's a game of Mario Kart / Mario Tennis / Mario Party , or a sports game ( Winning Eleven is all the rage here, and the only non-GameCube game in the list ).
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Doubtful. While PC makers actually price their PCs so that they can make money on that and nothing more, console makers underprice their consoles and make money through the games made for it. A free, open SDK would cut into revenues, and also dillute the quality of games on the console. Not that the current slew of FPS and roster updates are really good, but they are consistent, and generally dont crash the system or kill it dead. Not so if they opened it up like with the PC.
Some of us don't want or need mature-themed games to have a good time.
I think one of the problems is the degredation of the term "mature". I very much enjoy mature games. The problem is that most people associate "mature" with "lots of blood and blowing shit up". In fact, to me most of these games are very immature because they substitute depth with "shiny, blood, explosions, boobies".
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
Most of the control schemes you mention were "invented" before nintendo got to them. Dont get me wrong, Nintendo is my favourite of the big 3, but they dont really invent control schemes. Make them popular, perhaps, but aren't the "first to impliment". If anything, the arcade market is (or, at least, was) the innovator.
Then why is the PC not dead from lackluster user made games? The fact of the matter is that, while many amature games are crap, the crap will be avoided by most people. They will find the good stuff and stick with it. The games that crash/kill your console will not achieve many downloads.
Heck, take a look at the Xbox 1. It has a thriving homebrew scene. Xbox Media Center alone is a reason to buy and mod an Xbox. In fact, its BETTER than the crap on the 360 that is supposed to offer the same functionality. These amatures have produced better code than Microsoft.
I say fling the console doors wide open.
The only example I really think is needed to prove Nintendo's widespread appeal should be quite obvious. Ocarina of Time had something for everyone: A fairly good story, lots of exploring, easy but enjoyable combat (the boss battle in the Shadow Temple was insanely fun), and the game explained enough that the younger crowd could understand what was going on. Ignoring the fact that Navi was the most irritating sidekick known to mankind, the rest of the game was absolutely outstanding from start to finish.
Moving to a non-Nintendo example of a more "mature" game that didn't require copious amounts of blood would be Freelancer. It was somewhat open ended, also had a decent plot (not the best, but enjoyable), and there was a lot to do between major story points. The game was easy to play without insulting your intelligence, and if you find a good server online, it's actually a lot of fun to get 5 or 6 people together and do some mercenary or trade runs (having to protect the one guy hauling a crapload of moneymaking goods through extremely hostile territory while trusting that whatever friend is hauling the goods isn't gonna do something stupid, like run off and get killed, makes for some intense gameplay).
Either way, the point remains as the previous poster stated. Games don't have to have gallons of blood, giant breasts, or be horrifically violent to be "mature." Shadow of the Colossus is a mature game more for it's dark atmosphere and moral ambiguity than any amount of violence. Indigo Prophecy (or Fahrenheit to those on the other side of the pond) has elements that would bore younger gamers because there's not enough "action". It all goes to show that too many people equate "mature" games with things that children shouldn't be allowed to see, rather than gameplay that engages the individual on a level where being older and wiser is an advantage.
"So after all this, you make my case for me. To end this stalemate, you must die..."
The PC has many other uses. Very few people buy PCs for only gaming. I do, but I realize I am in the minority. You will also notice that the PC game selection is shrinking. People like consoles because they are relatively simple, dedicated appliances that always work. I go out and buy game X, put it on console Y, and I am done. No putzing around with drivers, figuring out if my sound card likes it, or dealing with system errors. I plug it into my TV, and it works.
I'm not saying that bad titles are the primary cause of the closed nature of SDKs (I would wager the income is), but its definitely something to consider. Especially when one has the company name impressively emblazoned all over the thing, and PR is everything. Its all about perception in the console world.
Just in control schemes: Directional Pad, shoulder buttons, rumble packs, analog sticks, touch screens, and soon motion sensors.
I recall using a motion sensor controller with the NES back in the 80's.
Don't forget the POWERGLOVE!
From TFA: "Despite dramatic gains in graphical realism in four generations of console platforms"
Gen 1: Arari
Gen 2: Master System / NES
Gen 3: Genesis / SNES
Gen 4: Playstation / Dreamcast
Gen 4.5: N64 - You KNOW it!
Gen 5: PS2 / Xbox / Gamecube
Gen 6: Xbox 360 (its out now... aint it?)
should it be 6 (or perhaps 7 if you count the graphical increases within the N64) generations of console platforms????
----- Concentrate on promoting more than demoting.
Well someone beat me to mentioning Ico, which blows away anything Nintendo ever made; Sony's had a couple of other things released through SCE that were good. Sega had Shenmue. Microsoft had Crimson Skies and Halo 1 and 2 (yes, half of you hated it, but it did try for an adult market).
But why are you limiting it to first party games? This guy was boosting Nintendo as a game developer, not a console developer; I'm judging them as a game developer. There are many, many studios that have released adult-themed games, even if your premise was correct and Sony and Microsoft haven't, why would they care as long as there are third party developers willing to do it?
Eternal Darkness
The url/comic really speaks for itself.
Chicken fried butter sticks? Do
Simple does not, in any way, mean the same thing as dumbed-down.
For one thing, the Rev controller is actually more complicated than a standard controller. By several orders of magnitude in fact. The only reason it's simpler is because human beings are trained from birth to understand a certain level of 3 dimensional interaction, whereas using an analog joystick and buttons is a non-natural learned behaviour.
Let me put it this way. Would you rather have a simple game like tetris, using a standard controller. Or a complex game like SOCOM, using the Rev controller? If you choose the first, then you're missing the point. The Rev controller can do anything a regular controller can do, and then some. The difference is that usage of the Rev controller is transparent, so the learning curve is in the game itself, and not in figuring out how to use the controller.
The new controller is not meant to help hardcore gamers. Hardcore gamers already have 20+ years exeperience in teaching themselves to use a "standard" gamepad. Everyone else, however, has been using their hands to manipulate obejcts in 3 dimensions their entire life (I'd assume hardcore gamers have been doing that as well) so this new control scheme will be more natural. And that is the actual point.
On the subject of Nintendogs, have you actually played it? I bought the game for my niece, her very first video game, and in helping her with it, it turns out it's a lot more complex than I'd expected. It's easy to use, but that doesn't necessarily translate into being easy to play. The first is a matter of control, the second is a matter of game design.
just some guy
Nintendo doesn't always make profit. They have never posted a loss, but they might not profit from every sale.
Profit, yes, but how much? Most likely not enough to keep a company afloat.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
*claps* good answer! /family feud
To be fair while Nintendo have made good use of control schemes the games, or at least the games best known have become reeeeeaaaly stagnant.
Dont get me wrong perhaps the Gamecube has a load of fantastic original titles but as someone who doesnt own a gamecube and am therefore gaining my opinion off the general marketing. The only games I really know for the past Nintendo systems pretty much consist of Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Donkey Kong.
First game I got with my DS. Mario 64. Most highly rated game on the DS Mario cart.
Id be willing to put money on the Revolution having not only versions of those four games on it but they will be the most well known and probably highly rated.
This isnt a bad thing when you consider reeling in the gamers youve always had. I know for a fact that there are very few really poor Mario games. Some are down right brilliant.
It is a bad thing for what Nintendo are proposing on doing. Taking on new players.
See my mum (as my usual test subject for those outside the industry.) also doesnt know much about Nintendo consoles and what games does she recognise. Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Donkey Kong. She also knows that she doesnt like playing them in there previous incarnations.
So while Nintendo might well come up with a brilliant new controller they may well shoot themselves in the foot with the very thing that is written to use it. As technophobes who are skeptical that this controller is going to make console gaming great for them, the normies (as I like to call my parents, family guy refrence ahoy.) will see the same old titles and thatll be enough for them to never even bother picking it up in the first place.
Then again if they make revolutiondogs theyll definately have the normies interested.
While, strictly speaking, Nintendo does make a profit on each unit sold (IE, the manufacturing cost is less than the price they get selling it to retailers/consumers), for it actually to be considered a profit, they have to make enough revenue to cover the costs of R&D (for a console) or development (for a game). Once they've made back the money they spent, anything after that is profit.
No console (as far as I know) has ever made a profit in it's first quarter. Nintendo consoles generally make a profit faster because they sell they're consoles for less than it costs to manufacture, and it gets progressively cheaper to manufacture as time goes on.
just some guy
Oh and then comes the old sales pitch. Simple. Yes, we are going to reach that part of the market that is to dumb to figure out a lightswitch.
Well, of course it's a sales pitch. The guy's job is to make Nintendo look as good as possible.
As far as the lightswitch crack goes....
Look. We each have a limited amount of what I call brainspace. It's the intersection of the sets of available free time, energy and interest. Geeks tend to have more available game-related brainspace than "normal people" because we have more interest in games. Thus, we're willing to use more of the limited pool available it us to understand the workings of a game sufficently well to play it.
But there are plenty of people without that much brainspace to devote to games. I know plenty of people who have trouble attaching a file to an email message! These people are not stupid: they could discuss the finer points of William Blake or John Milton better than you probably could hope to in your life, but their interests are in a different direction.
This is the kind of user that Nintendo hopes to attract. Not stupid, just a harder sell. People who think video games are something they'd never enjoy. And they're doing it because, at the moment, practically everyone who is interested in games is already playing them, so the only way to expand the total size of the market is to attract new players.
But hmm, I thought these things were largely obvious....
Well someone beat me to mentioning Ico, which blows away anything Nintendo ever made...
Now why'd you have to go and say something like that?
I'm as likely to sing the praises of Ico as anyone, but "blows away anything Nintendo ever made" is simply not true.
Ico is a certain kind of game. It has a thoughtful, intelligent outlook, features real characters, and is grand storytelling in a mode that puts the likes of Final Fantasy to shame. And, if you look at it only from those perspectives, perhaps you could say it is better than any of Nintendo's releases.
But games are more than Ico. For all of Ico's strengths, it is possible to make a great game that is nothing like Ico, in all the ways Ico is great. Robotron: 2084, for example, has no storytelling, no real characters, and is rather simple, but it is a GREAT GAME. Thus, it is possible for Nintendo to make games the equal or surpassing Ico without even challenging it in the ways it is great.
And it just so happens that Nintendo DOES have a series that carries some elements of Ico: the 3D versions of the Zelda series, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, each have a surprising thoughtful story, and interesting characterization, in places.
Having already demonstrated that you don't have to be anything like Ico to be better than it, I won't attempt to pose the question of whether its storytelling is better or worse. (It's probably a little worse, since Zelda games all carry at least a nominal non-linear aspect, which makes it a lot harder to tell a tight story.) But characters in those Zelda games tend to have, in my opinion, a lot more romance in their souls than those in most RPGs, and tend to be a lot more interesting as well.
(The most interesting character in Wind Waker, by the way, is arguably Ganon, who for the first time is given motivations beyond just wanting to conquer everyone.)
That's a second party title at best, as it was developerd by Silicon Knights, not Nintendo.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Sorry, but the rebuttal isn't "+1 insightful" but "-1 YHBT".
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Personally, i would go for the shooting of puppies
Because you weren't looking for a sandbox title that allows you to stray from the main plot and do whatever you want until you feel like moving on...you wanted something where you were forced to go through the main story and only the main story
Mr. T carries a postage stamp in his wallet at all times on the back is a list of all the fools he doesn't pity
Third party development is a way for console manufacturers to make money hand over fist. think of it this way- Square enix has to sink money into development and marketing of the game before they see any revenue. if the game sells poorly, (for instance like psychonauts, beyond good and evil, or advent rising did) they take a loss. in addition, a good chunk of that $50 game is going to retailers and middlemen. Square Enix will *maybe* see 10 dollars of actual profit per game sold after everyone else gets their cut, IF the game does well.
Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft however- generate revenue on every disc pressed (I forget the exact amount, sorry, but its substantial enough that they can reduce their take on the game, drop it to 19.99 as a greatest hit and still make a profit) without having to do any of this, and make money on the title regardless of how well the game actually sells without spending a dime.
In addition, even nintendo only has the resources to make 1-3 AAA titles on their platform per year-(excluding the DS/GBA, where development is obviously much cheaper) contrast this with the flood of 3rd party titles available for Ps2/Xbox, and you'll begin to see why strong 3rd party support is a very big deal.
yeah, the Powerglove and the U-Force both had motion sensor technology. So did Sega's Activator, IIRC- but that thing never worked well.
The intellivision had an 8 way D-pad (shaped like a disc) in 1979, long before the NES or the game & watch made use of one. The atari 5200 had analog sticks back in 1982. I've been playing simple but addictive touchscreen games at the bar for half a decade now.
Nintendo didn't innovate these things, but they DID take these things and adapt them WELL for console use.
Nintendo hopes to gain the 35+ market, their spokesperson says so. ( I think its more they need to capture the 20+ market).
Then he goes on about Nintendogs, a game squarely marketed for juvenile girls.
I am all up for the new Revolution, hoping Nintendo will put their money where their mouth is, but I have no doubts that the new Revolution will cater to children with derivative Mario Party titles that will make novel use of the new motion based controller system. Nintendo has not yet focused on adult gaming, and one can only hope that Nintendo is finally realizing that adult gamers are making up a larger market with disposable income.
To say Sony and Microsoft failed suggest that Nintendo is trying to downplay the fact they have been underdogs in an industry that almost passed them buy. Without catering to an adult market, Nintendo allowed their once near 90% marketshare to slip to less then 20%.
We will see what Nintendo's goal is with the new Revolution. But I am sure that the first 6 Nintendo titles will be based on a Mario, Luigi, Wario, Kirby, Zelda, Metroid, or Nintendogs franchise. Probably throw in a Resident Evil just to say they are not entirely a G rated company. The rest of the release titles by 3rd party companies will be party based novelty games that make generous use of the remote controller. But, NONE of the games will cater to the adult market.
The only thing Nintendo has going for them in the Revolution is support for their entire backlibrary (hopefully this feature won't be dropped). Adult players will probably pick up the Revolution for nostalgic reasons, playing old favourites once again.
Only time will tell if Nintendo has any real plans to cater to the adult marketplace, but I doubt it.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
You're right. Animal Crossing sucked.
Actually, I love Animal Crossing. There's just something about being able to talk in Animalese and the parodies of human society are immensely funny.
Now, I haven't checked out the sequel, I admit.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Do you live in Ontario? By law, a lease is not allowed to prohibit you from owning pets except under the following conditions:
1. The pet causes undue damage to the property
2. The pet can reasonably be considered dangerous
3. Other residents of the property are allergic to the pet
Know your rights, and stand up for them. We had a property management company try to tell us that we couldn't have a dishwasher, and that we're not allowed to store flammable substances in our apartment. What a joke.
It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
Ocarina of Time was one of the best games ever made. It had enjoyable mechanics, many places to explore, good puzzles, and an epic storyline. I bought the game "for my son" when he was three years old. My son and I played that game after school/work for hours on end. He loved it intensely and I enjoyed it as well.
The "eyeball monster" scared the crap out of him, so he handed the controller off to me when he got there, but for the most part, he played the game himself...
It was Ocarina of Time that got my son interested in reading. He was always asking me to tell him what the words were on the screen, but since I was not always available, it gave him an impetus to learn to read himself. That game is directly responsible for my son being the top reader in his class now.
The puzzles stimulated his problem skills. He is always the first one in his class with the answer to any problem posed.
Hm... now I do not remember why I went off on this tangent. I am sure there was a reason, but I do not recall now. Sorry.
strike
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
Yes, yes, and katanas.
Wait, didn't his Giant Ultra Mega Pig form in Ocarina of Time have weapons like those?
Ah, incorrect sir! It was because I find the sandbox game is a lot more interesting in Grand Theft Auto than the story. Doing my own thing is awesome in those games. Following an annoying narrative about gang warfare or corrupt cops or the pornography industry or the mob or whatever is, to me at least, considerably less awesome.
re:"Stupid knows no political thought."
I've been prone to generalizing the granola set because of my proximity to Berkely. I'll admit it. However - I've yet to see a GOP member tie themselves to a tree or participate in an animal liberation exercise, so for the sake of splitting hairs I'll defend my choice of sterotype in this literary-fart of an instance.
Notice I didn't mention 'invent' anywhere in my post.
Nintendo made them work really well, and they became standards after that.