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Palm OS Apps on Linux Mobile Phones
An anonymous reader writes "PalmSource revealed details of its Linux-based mobile phone operating system, Tuesday at 3GSM in Barcelona. Codenamed ALP (Access Linux Platform), the architecture supports Palm OS application binaries, Java apps, and native Linux apps. ALP includes a 68K emulation layer capable of running 'properly written' Palm 68K or 'Garnet' application binaries without modification, PalmSource claims. However, devices based on ALP are not expected until next year -- will it be too late for PalmSource and it's parent company ACCESS to gain a foothold in the mobile phone market?"
PalmSource also open sourced today their Binder technology, now called OpenBinder. This futuristic architecture technology is described by engineer Dianne Hackborn in her interview.
It's interesting that we read about a palm emulator running under linux and the rumors of a possible acquisition by Apple. I wonder if Apple will use a mobile form of BSD, write applications and games for it, yet keeping the device backwards compatible so Palm applications may still run.
They could have done this 3-5 years ago (using a Linux, BSD, or other POSIX-like kernel).
One might ask why they didn't do that. Well, for the answer look to the article on Shuttleworth: Palm's engineers had so much more fun designing a new operating system from scratch that the obvious answer eluded them, and because Palm was flying high, they had the money and resources to waste on their hare-brained project of developing their own new operating system.
Unfortunately, Palm's idiocy probably condemns us all to using PocketPC or Qt/Embedded at some point.
This whole 'Linux phone' thing has, to date, sucked for hobbyists. Motorola? Suck.
.SIS files for Symbian, without a great deal of reverse engineering? Pick a toolset and run with it, preferably something that allows for easy porting from existing OSS apps?
At least SonyEricsson has released free toolchains... For Symbian.
Where oh where is the phone vendor that will release a smartphone with the ability to load custom-written Linux apps ala
But of course, normal people don't buy smartphones, cell companies do. So it won't happen. Oh well.
...will it be too late for PalmSource and it's parent company ACCESS to gain a foothold in the mobile phone market?
I sure hope not. Windows Mobile seems to be well on it's way toward taking over a significant portion of this market which needs competition. It will certainly be interesting to see how this market evolves since Linux, and other OS'es have more of a fair chance against Microsoft here than on the Desktop market. Even so I expect Windows Mobile to have a great advantage due to it's high degree of integration with Exchange and now that Exchange has 'Push Mail' RIM also has a reason to worry.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
...this much stuff in something as small as a phone! Imagine what PalmSource could do if they wrote the OS for something as large as a microwave oven. Or even a refrigerator.
"The White House is not an intelligence-gathering agency," -- Scott McClellan, Whitehouse spokesman.
They should have named it PINE - Pine Is Not an Emulator.
Developers: We can use your help.
Given that Palm Inc. is one of PalmSource's largest licensees, I would say that PalmSource already has a pretty big foothold in the mobile market.
:) ), and while the initial release of the Verizon Treo 700w is Windows Mobile based, there are lots of rumors with some substantiation that a Sprint Treo 700p is under development. The Treo 750 may likely be using this new Linux-based PalmOS version.
The Treo 600 was pretty popular, the Treo 650 is incredibly popular (and is getting huge amounts of product placement in TV shows and movies - even teenagers are packing 650s in Smallville!
BTW, a Linux-based PalmOS isn't exactly new news - it's been known for quite a while that the next generation of PalmOS was going to be based on Linux.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Does anybody know if PalmOne has made any announcements about what OS they'll be using in the future? I know that Access licenses out its' software to other companies (i.e. PSP web browser)...
A wise man once said, "wtf h4x."
Great!
Now, not only will my new phone be unable to run more than one task at the same time, but it'll also crash a few times a week.
What PalmSource needs to do is license an embedded Linux OS (embedix, maybe?) or create their own, pretty up the GUI, port their killer apps and come out as a major alternative to Windows Mobile. I would gladly purchase a Linux handheld if a current, serious one existed and I'm sure I'm not the only one who shares this sentiment.
ConsultingFair.com
If their PalmOS emulation/compatibility binaries link to various GPL libraries required to run on Linux, won't they have to open source their code?
Even if PalmSource escapes linking to GPL libraries, if they link to LGPL their own EULA will be required to allow end-users to reverse engineer (this is required by LGPL for non-LGPL works that link to LGPL code).
You'd think they'd be smart enough to use something like NetBSD to avoid issues like this.
It's never too late when you go with linux or java, and especially so when you add Palm apps to that.
I say, good riddance. As much as I loved my Palm III, those days are gone and Palm has been wandering aimlessly chasing one target after another and making all kinds of ridiculous mistakes.
As much as I disagree, the market has chosen features over minimalism (it always does, BTW). No matter how ridiculous it is to watch movies on a 4" screen, this is what consumers want and Microsoft answered a call while Palm actually tried to tell consumers that they actually would not want to do that.
Overall it's a damn shame. Palm was a good (not great) platform and it could continue eating Microsoft's lunch. Instead, they literally sat and watched Microsoft learning from their mistakes and stealing their market. Just imagine the humiliation of pushing Windows Mobile on Treos!
On to Linux. I am yet to see a practical PDA running embedded Linux. No, Zaurus doesn't count - those are more like exotic geek gadgets rather than consumer devices. I would love it PalmSource actually pulled this off and managed to finally create one, but I know better. I predict that whatever_this_company_is_now_called will be off the market before the device hits the shelves. In about 1-2 years the PDA market will be 100% Windows Mobile. The battle will shift into the smartphone space with Symbian and Windows Mobile being the biggest players and everyone else feeding off the table crumbs.
This whole 'Linux phone' thing has, to date, sucked for hobbyists.
With all due respect, with that attitude it sounds like the lack of progress for Linux in this market space has as much to do with the hobbyist community as it does with the manufacturers of these devices. If every open-source-related announcement by an ISV or gadget-maker is met with a response like this from hobbyists there won't be much enthusiasm to keep going down the Free Software path.
Pretty much every company out there in the wireless mobile market doesn't quite "get it" yet when it comes to Free Software, because their legacy and corporate culture is rooted in a highly-proprietary mindset. Normally, everything is patented, encumbered and non-disclosed up the wazoo. It'll take some time for the marketplace to adjust to a modernised business model based on open technology, and Hobbyists, and the Free Software community in general, should offer CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and real solutions rather than just complaining. IMHO, it looks like this new ALP system has a lot going for it, if only it can land the big backers it needs to get adopted.
Pick a toolset and run with it, preferably something that allows for easy porting from existing OSS apps?
Umm...isn't that exactly what is happening here? Yes, they have engineered their own API, but it looks to me that GTK+ and GStreamer are important components of the new platform. The "open source ecosystem" seems quite unencumbered from an IP standpoint and would certainly not present a porting challenge for existing OSS apps. From that standpoint mobile devices based on this platform should be fairly hobbyist-friendly.
But of course, normal people don't buy smartphones, cell companies do. So it won't happen.
Therein lies the rub. Furthermore, even if a "normal person" bought a smartphone directly, that person would have to subscribe to service s provided by a cell company, and cell comanies are in the "content provider" game first and foremost--and smartphones are just delivery mechanisms in their view. Cell companies want the most whiz-bang "content delivery device" money can buy--the one that can push as many bytes per second, has the most toys like cameras, music players, big bright colour screens, etc. They don't give a crap what the programming toolkit is or about JAR files or SIS files or any of that other properller-head stuff. In fact, if an engineer boasted of the ability to allow end users to plug in custom software it would be seen as a liability because it circumvents their revenue-generating content-delivery system, and furthermore they would lose control over the environment (remember the corporate culture we are dealing with here)
I guess the technical aspect is only half the solution. The rest of the solution is to reform the wireless telecommunications industry in north America (I think it is telling that mobile wireless devices based on Linux are a much larger presence in Asia and parts of Europe).
I just hope they'll be more friendly to third-party developers. Nurturing them instead of alienating them. Palm has always had a great rapport with third-party devs. In fact, a huge number of the apps available for the Palm were developed not only by third-party app developers but by free and open source software developers.
So far, Linux phones like the Motorola ones and many based on QTopia have been met with resentment by 3rd party devs. OpenEZX laments that it can't even access certain functionality through native API calls, much less roll out their own kernel.
"will it be too late for PalmSource and it's parent company ACCESS to gain a foothold in the mobile phone market?"
;-)
Well, in my opinion the three best smartphones on the market right now are the Sony P910i, the Treo 650, and the HTC Magician, so they have some sort of a foothold.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
Windows Mobile seems to be well on it's way toward taking over a significant portion of this market which needs competition.
Microsoft's success in this area is far from assured. I can honestly say that for every Microsoft smartphone I've seen someone use, I've seen five (well, probably even more) based on other platforms...and to put it plainly, the Microsoft-based super-phones totally suck. They are more expensive, firstly. They are physically huge in comparison to a Blackberry device, the user interface is cumbersome, the battery life is far from being best-in-class and cellular providers provide lackluster support (Blackberry devices are much better supported and promoted I've found). What about their new offensive against RIM with respect to Exchange integration without the need to pay for licenses? Well, if the hardware sucks and is more expensive than Blackberries, and the devices are bound only to Exchange (my rather large employer does not use exchange as its standard) and so on, I'm far from convinced RIM is in trouble.
Basically, it isn't too late for palmsource because the typical end user really doesn't care what the OS is on their phone any more than they care about what kind of microcontrollers are used in their microwaves or MPEG decoders are in their living-room DVD players. People want to push the ON button and be able to make calls, check emails, text each other and just have it work. If anything Microsoft is at a disadvantage because their offerings quite often DON'T "just work", and to make the Windows platform truly competitive on a smart phone I think they're going to have to further re-work their interface to make it look even less "pc-like". Think about it...corporate executives, teenagers and a great deal of other gadget-lovers HATE the Windows PC experience--they merely tolerate it because it (barely) meets their needs in performing various tasks. Most people I know don't want to carry the PC experience with them wherever they go.
At that point the problem for MS becomes how to differentiate themselves form PalmSource and others. Easy intergration with PCs? Pretty flimsy excuse to buy a phone if you ask me--all most people need is some basic addressbook/calender sync, and everyone does that well enough now. Pocket Word/Excel/IE/Outlook? Their full-sized counterparts are ghastly, why would I want to make the experience even ghastlier by cramming them onto a 5cm screen? Sorry, phones aren't PCs and the familiarity of MS Office or the Windows desktop means nothing. Furthermore, "pushing email" is not rocket science and RIM and others can do fine against MS. The challenge MS' competitors face isn't one of technology, or even getting out there fast enough (next year is soon enough...really). The challenge is to out-savvy MS in terms of business model and marketing. Get cell providers and manufacturers, etc on board and you're set. It is PalmSource's and RIMs to lose if they respond to MS plays with boneheaded service and license agreements, slow or non-existent innovation and poor interoperability.
I wonder if this is the rebirth of BeOS, which they purchased a few years ago?
Steve, just promise me you won't break any chairs of fucking kill anyone when your little wet dream does not work any better than Xbox or tablet PCs.
the market has chosen features over minimalism (it always does, BTW). No matter how ridiculous it is to watch movies on a 4" screen, this is what consumers want and Microsoft answered a call while Palm actually tried to tell consumers that they actually would not want to do that.
PDA sales are in the dirt right now. I suspect it has something to do with a planned lack of choices outside expensive but underperforming WinCE machines and constantly breaking Windoze syncs. Those losers can't even get handwriting recognition right. Saying that Windoze mobile has won in a market like that is not saying much. They might have "won" but they did it by killing the market and it's not going to get any better till choice comes back.
Oh yeah, one more reason for poor sales is good devices. I'm still happily syncing my handspring visor with Kontact and KPilot and those programs continue to improve it's capabilities. Here's three cheers for marking contact birthdays in my calendar.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
PDA's are dead because no one wants them, not because MS killed them. People want their PDA functions integrated into phones.
Are you one of those people who used the term "Windoze"?
BTW, free hint: PDAs want to be phones. That's why they're going away, and coming back as phones. It has nothing to do with "Windoze".
Then PalmSource is doomed. You can do all that with a generic closed handset.
PalmOS's value is the strong PDA integration and available third-party apps. You're right that a lot of users don't care about those benefits: Sanyo and Samsung sell better high-end multimedia phones that don't use PalmOS (or WinCE, or Symbian).
But U.S. cell providers don't want rich extensible devices, they want to sell you $2 ringtones, $3 music downloads, $10/month online photo albums, and address book backup for $2/month. An extensible smart phone with PC syncing works against their business model. As WebCowboy wrote,"it circumvents their revenue-generating content-delivery system, and furthermore they would lose control over the environment".
I really wish PalmSource/Access well. I'm using and loving a Samsung sph-i500 PDA phone, with the included Chapura PocketMirror syncing my Outlook contacts, the excellent Novii Remote acting as an infrared A/V control, and GNU Keyring to secure my passwords. It's over three years old, and no other flip phone comes close to meeting my needs. There are PalmOS-based phones (GSPDA, Xplore M68) available elsewhere in the world, but the market in the US has shrunk to the fine Treo 650.
=S
Even though I am biased here (I spend most of my time in Linux, not Windows) it is easy to see where the market goes once you stop closing your eyes and ears and chanting "losers" and "Windoze." As I said before, you can partially praise Microsoft for doing their homework and creating a highly useful product in Windows Mobile (despite arguments presented here, I am yet to observe that dreaded "instability" in my x50v and neither do I see that in PDAs of my colleagues and friends). Then, you can also thank Palm for screwing it up by letting PalmOS be stagnant for years while Microsoft was busy improving their product and winning the market share.
That's wonderful. The only minor issue here is that 99.99% of the PDA users don't give a crap. They sync with Outlook and corporate Exchange.It would be interesting to know if ALP can support single core CPUs - where the same CPU runs the GSM/CDMA stack and all the applications as well. This is going to be a critical factor in the total cost of the operating system + handset and is an area where Symbian has a long head start over Windows Mobile.
Symbian was sold on 10.9 million handsets in the last quarter - making it an attractive target for developers such as myself. I am not denying Palm's product could be awesome but it seems to have a hell of a long way to catch up.
Cheers,
Tim
This is all just my personal opinion.