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Google Stands Ground on Google.cn
nmccart writes "Google gave testimony on Friday to the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on International Relations. They discussed their decision to build google.cn in China. Elliot Schrage, the vice president for global communications and public affairs at Google describes how these China-based servers fit in to Google's mantra of 'Don't be evil.' Google hopes to use this as an opportunity to help bring global censorship into the spotlight of American politics. Will it work?"
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&c2coff=1&q=t iananmen&spell=1&sa=N&tab=wi
e n&btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&sa=N&tab=wi
http://images.google.cn/images?hl=zh-CN&q=tiananm
...because asusming that Google's statement is true, there are too many others with their own agendas who will twist whatever's said to bolster their own positions.
While I don't like Google's actions in China, they're not nearly as reprehensible as Cisco Systems (equipping and training Chinese Police to seek out those who have spoken against the Government using the routers to prosecute) and Yahoo (turning over contact information of those who were specifically targeted), so Google really is a more minor player here than the others anyway.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Google describes how these China-based servers fit in to Google's mantra of 'Don't be evil.' Google hopes to use this as an opportunity to help bring global censorship into the spotlight of American politics.
Being evil fits into the idea of "Don't be Evil" because by being evil we are showing the evil of being evil, therefor getting people to talk about evil critically, which is Good.
Very noble of them!
In all honesty, I think this is overblown. Congress should examine its own dealings with China first.... clinging to this cold war ideal that isolating a population will cause it to stop supporting its government has been shown to be false (Cuba anyone). Only buy engaging a population, and exposing them to more of American culture can we cause change.
Put another way, missiles didn't win the Cold War, Bluejeans did.
The logical flaw there is question-begging. The point is, they get to choose the countries they're in, and China need not be one of them.
It's really an age-old question: do you shun the evildoers so that they don't influence you, or do you go out and mingle with the evildoers so that you can be a positive influence?
Google appears to be saying that since content filters are not as good as their search engiine, they can be a more positive influence on the culture in China than cooperating with the Chinese harms them.
And there's money there.
sigs, as if you care.
Google, in the interest of profit, has bent to China's demands. Maybe they aren't the only ones "complying with local laws", however they have the highest profile these days.
I think what is drawing the most attention is the fact that their motto, which touts corporate responsibility, is taking a back seat to profits. If you are going to paint yourself as the good guys then you should put that responsibilty ahead of profits. Otherwise just change your motto to -- "Out for a buck like everyone else."
And say they are looking to congress for moral guidance? What kind of a cheap cop out is that?
We need a new edition, that will also make it illegal for US companies to cooperate with civil rights suppression by foreign regimes.
Call your lawmaker...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I don't doubt that the Chinese government would want information about the Tiananmen Square massacre kept quiet. But that search just doesn't show evidence that Google has been complicit in keeping the information out of the hands of the Chinese citizens.
Rather, I think it's mostly a fucnction of what the significance of Tiananmen Square is across cultures. Americans are generally only familiar with the place as the result of the protests and subsequent crackdown. For Chinese, it's an historical place and a center of national pride; it's got more associations to it than just the crackdown.
That's the most lopsided biased synopsis I've seen in a while. The most obvious omissions are:
+ Chinese Language Google.com continues to be available in China, unfiltered by Google.
+ Chinese ISPs do filter this and make it painful to use, but that is definitely beyond Google's control.
+ Offering Google.cn only increases information availability and Google clearly marks when results are censored.
If doing business with China is truly evil, then let's hear about your personal pledge to boycott Chinese goods, electronics, clothing. Or is hypocrisy only a problem for others?
"But they said they won't be evil." Give me a break. If doing business with China is evil (and it's not unreasonable to take that stance, if you're consistent), I'd much rather have a company that _tries_ to do the right thing and succeeds 90% of the time than one that never tries at all.
All you folks that complain about google offering this service need to have your head examined.
Google has NOT shut down their chinese language servers outside China.
They have only ADDED servers in china that chinese folk can use to search WHICH THE CHINESE CITIZENS KNOW ARE CENSORED.
If the Chinese citizens want the uncensored, they still have the option of using the uncensored site and dealing with latency, but for the MAJORITY of their searches, they now have a nice and fast websearching utility. Think about it like this, you search for something, you see there is a censored site. Now you KNOW there is a censored site and can maybe search using a proxy etc.
Google has done an amazing thing here, and really has empowered people in china while still working within the laws.
I applaud their decision to offer a proper service to Chinese citizens who just want a quick search on local news etc. This is what MOST people want.
Ask yourself something. How many days out of the week do you spend looking up how to overthrow dictatorships, and then ask yourself how many times you look up your favorite music artist, favorite movie, favorite actor, favorite recipe?
As far as I'm concerned this was a logical decision and by google NOT shutting down their chinese servers outside the country, they have really shown they are attempting to help people.
Villainizing a company because they are attempting to help their shareholders and at the same time offering a service we all really enjoy and use for a variety of subjects is completely assanine.
In other words, they know that they have completely sold out their basic values. The rest is just pages of rationalization.
I really dislike Google's stance, but I really hate the self-righteousness of the government (and by proxy, the people, of this country). We have decided that corporations need to stand on their principles and "take one for the team", in order to further American values. The people/government expect companies to "do the right thing" and protect our Bill of Rights abroad on philosophical grounds. Except it's not the private industries job to do that, that's the governments job, and the government has done nothing, ever, to discourage China from being the way they are. They are most-favored-nation, etc. They get a few strong words every year, and otherwise get yielded too constantly.
In other words, to Congress I say, put your god damm money where your mouth is. Take a stand yourself before you start demanding that others do it for you. This is just complete and total scapegoating. Why is this country looking to Google to lead the way on spreading free speech? When did we decide that the spread of the basic freedoms should be privitized?
...why it's Google's job to take China to task for human rights? Doesn't it seem a little unfair, given we as a nation completely and utterly condone their practice implicitly by importing billions of dollars worth of goods and permanantly extending MFN status and whatnot? If Congress is so righteous about China, let's see some legislation. Oh, you mean it's easier and safer to have public hearings and just blame some tech companies? Okay, yeah, let's do that instead.
Seriously, am I the only one who finds it the peak of hypocrisy to see the legislative body of a lone superpower blaming Google for not doing enough to bring about human rights reform in China?
Actually, I do personally boycott China.
The reason I labeled your arguments straw was that you set up them up to knock them down. You tried to present a false dichotomy between either boycotting evil completely or embracing it totally. It's not that simple, and so your arguments blow away in the slightest puff of air.
And I never said I agreed with Google, just that I think I understand their position. It's a reasonable one for them to take. World domination is incomplete without owning China.
sigs, as if you care.
So what should the government do? Even if our economy wasn't dependent upon cheap Chinese imports, what good would isolating China do? We've isolated and punished Cuba with trade restrictions for years, but Cuba isn't any freer. Castro has probably been in power longer than any other leader in the Western Hemisphere, if not the world. Given that trade restrictions have failed to achieve freedom in Cuba, why would they do any good in China? Punitive actions would allow the U.S. to act principled, but it's unlikely they'd do any real good, and it might just strengthen the Chinese' government's grip over its people by delaying the rise of a strong middle class. So the U.S. Government is left in the same position as Google- it's evil to engage China, it's evil not to engage China.
People are being a bit hasty in expecting things to change in China. Freedom takes time. A functional Jeffersonian democracy is a hell of a lot more than the absence of a totalitarian state. It requires security, infrastructure, a market economy, the rule of law, a tradition of people taking charge of their own government. All that takes time. The slow change towards a freer China is frustrating, but the alternative- say, a sudden collapse of the state, as seen in Russia- is probably worse. There, the economy collapsed, the oligarchs ran off with everything, and organized crime filled the power vacuum left by the absence of the state. So for all these people agitating for freedom in China, what do you plan to replace it with? Do you naively expect China to become a model democracy overnight, as we blindly expected to happen in Iraq?
At any rate, China is changing. I met a Chinese student in a course of mine who was studying engineering; she said her goal in life was to get a good education here so she could go live in Shanghai, get a high-paying job, and buy lots of pretty clothes. Which speaks volumes. China is only communist by name, they are a totalitarian country with a market economy: a fascist state. As the Economist notes, however, that's a hopeful sign. Fascist states like Spain and Chile have good histories of making the transition to democracy, but it doesn't happen overnight.
The issue is more complex than you give it credit. There was no ideal choice, so Google made a sensible compromise. They chose the path that gives Chinese searchers access to as much information as possible. Not doing this would only harm the Chinese citizen (by restricting their access to information to an even greater degree).
Change in China will eventually come, but it will come quicker if outside entities exploit every means of access to the Chinese that is available. That way future generations of Chinese leaders are more likely to be exposed to ideas such as freedom of information and the like.
You might not like the decision Goggle made, but it is grossly unfair to call it evil. Hmm, perhaps the real problem here is that Goggle clearly is trying to use a Utilitarian ethic, and this upsets people who don't like that moral system. The objectors do seem to prefer hard and uncompromising moral rules, rather than ones that bend and flex to fit the situation.
Anyhow Google isn't being evil, they are just trying to do the most good for the Chinese citizens as they can (as far as information access goes). It required that they do something a bit unsavory, but I for one agree that it is better than the alternatives they had to choose from. It isn't like they were giving them the Google searches we enjoy before; the Chinese Government was already interfering and wrecking that service.
-Drachasor