Salary Negotiation for an IT Position?

HerculesMO asks: "I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty large corporation. I know that I'm underpaid for what I do, and as such, I've been looking for another position. The problem is however, that a lot of potential positions ask for what you are currently making -- and it's a bargaining chip that the company I interview with will (and have) used to negotiate salary." Given that businesses usually base the salaries of new hires on their previous job, how can one arrange a fair salary if they were badly underpaid? "I'm currently in a series of interviews with a company that I really like, the work environment, people seem young and friendly (like myself), and the business is something I wouldn't hate doing. I'm well qualified for the work, and their director already likes me. I just feel that, if I accept the position, I won't be able to bargain my way up to the market rate for the position, given it's such a leap from what I currently make. In New York, many of the companies require the disclosure of salary so just 'saying no' locks me out of a lot of potential positions."

Comments

DO NOT LIE!

[Knetzar]

Companies can call, and sometimes will, call other companies and ask about your employment with them. They will try and get as much information as possible. Some companies will reveal your salary, and if that happens you're screwed.

Re:DO NOT LIE!

[mark_wilkins]

Maybe it varies by industry, but I can't imagine any company I've ever worked for doing this:

1) First, the company receiving the call usually won't want to advertise to their competitors how much they're actually paying for labor.

2) Second, most companies are sensitive to the fact that it could harm their interviewees if the company for which they're currently working knew they were looking.

3) Third, legal issues have put in place policies at most medium to large companies in the U.S. that prevent doing anything other than confirming that a person is or is not an employee. No references, no salary info, no personal info, nothing. (With references, these policies are often ignored, but salary info is a different matter.)

That's not to say that I think lying is the best approach. Chances are a given company has an idea of what their competitors pay for a given level of experience.

-- Mark

Re:DO NOT LIE!

[AKAImBatman]

Unforunately, they wanted to see her paystubs before they officially gave her the offer letter. And when they found out she was lying, she got nothing.

I have a feeling that the amount she gave was unreasonably high. Every year we hear a new article that gives the average wages someone in our position makes. Unfortunately, many technologists believe these averages to be around their actual market value. That simply isn't true. Some people have exceptionally high wages due to being in an invaluable position. (Been there, done that, both glad and sad it's over.) These salaries drag the industry average upwards, creating data that would make it appear that most technology workers are underpaid. Thus workers often hope for unreasonably high salaries when they switch jobs.

However, a new job will almost never want to match those figures unless they really want you on-board. In your friend's case, her high salary may have been a strong indication to them that she is an exceptional employee. But if they're basing their evaluations on a high salary, they probably will want proof of it. Just imagine how poor she looked in their eyes when they found she had not only lied about her salary (somewhat bad), but had significantly overstated her wages? Yeah, pretty bad. So bad that their opinion would have immediately went from hero to zero.

Each job negotiation is a delicate process with no hard and fast rules. So there's no telling what may work better. Generally I'd recommend telling the company to give you an offer if you don't want to state your real wages, but sometimes that has the exact opposite effect of what you want. Even if you read the interviewer fine, he/she may not be the one who finally has to be convinced. (You may not even see that person.) So tread carefully, and realize that it doesn't always work out.

If you absolutely *must* lie, though, try to explain the differences as bonuses in previous years. They're a bit more difficult to check, and sound quite good. (Though you may have to lie even more to explain what the bonuses were for.) Of course, once a company has your SSN info, it's all over. You just have to hope that your future boss doesn't check your tax information and/or credit report before hiring. (Note that many companies check credit reports as a method of protecting against embezzlement and position abuse.) :-/

Just say this...

[mark_wilkins]

"I'm currently making $X, but I believe that's below the market rate for my type of work and I really am looking for more like $Y."

If $Y is a reasonable number and you stick to your guns, you can probably get them to offer it.

Alternatively, if you don't particularly care about being honest, you could always just say "I'm currently making $Y" and there will never, ever be any way they'll ever know the difference. However, I think the first approach is more straightforward and just as effective.

-- Mark

Just tell them

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell them what you're making, and make it clear that the reason why you're looking for a new job is because you're aware that you're severely underpaid. Make it very clear that you will not accept a salary below whatever the standard is, or whatever it is that you want. You're in an advantagous position here, you already have a job and are currently well established so you can afford to be picky.

Re:Umm... lie.

[matt.fotter]

Don't do it. They call. Plus if you're looking at work with the federales, they will look.

I've gotten a lot of mileage out of a line I got from a WSJ Managing Your Career column a while back:

"I am hoping to receive a fair offer."

One guy I interviewed with even knew the article I was talking about and got some points for reading the journal.

But don't fib. It'll bite you in the ass.

Re:Don't tell them

[mikael]

In some places, talking about salaries is bizarrely taboo

Because when some companies advertise for jobs, they put out a lowball offer first, and gradually ramp up the salary until they start getting bites. Consequently, that type of workplace will have a wide range of salaries - some engineers might be earning more than managers. To avoid any kind of workplace uprising, the discussion of salaries is taboo.

Tell them your salary, it empowers you

[moochfish]

A common misunderstanding is that NOT telling them your salary helps you. I believe that is wrong. First of all, many companies will immediately shut you out for not disclosing that. It can also leave a sour taste in the interviewers mouth if you continue to resist the question. Also, it might make the employer think you got paid an embarassingly low salary, which doesn't help your cause either. I mean if you were getting paid like a champ, you'd mention your salary to make sure you can get paid even more.

You make it clear - very clear - that your current salary is too low and that is a big factor in why you are looking for a new job. Sure, you might be able to fight for a raise and get it, but it's still too low. That means their offer has to be even more than what one raise might net you. You're telling them that if they low ball you, you aren't taking their offer.

Whoever throws a number out first sets the tone. If, for example, you make $55k, but want $60k, but you make them say a number first, there are scenarios where you can end up fighting an uphill battle. What if they offer you $50k? What, suddenly you're willing to disclose your old salary and tell them their offer is too low? Then all that talk about it not being "relevant" goes out the window and you look like a fool. And now you are stuck fighting your way *up* to your goal. Instead, had you made it explicitly clear your currently salary is FAR too low, told them what it is, and asked for $65k, then you place them in the position to have to fight their way down to $60k.

If you don't tell them what your salary was up front, they won't know where you are coming from and your salary request will seem like some phantom number you got from salary.com. You want credibility? If you can't justify why you should get paid what you are worth, you don't deserve the salary anyway. Tell them what you make and make them respect what you feel you should be getting.

Value yourself

[ZekeSMZ]

A wise man once told me "if you don't value yourself, how can anyone else value you?" I've found those words to be very true on my past job searches.

Most company HR departments will validate current salary level requests. Large corporations often have hotlines dedicated to this, as the information is often required when applying for a mortgage or other financing.

It's a tough spot to be in when you are asked this question. When answering, make sure that you give a figure that represents your entire package (salary, bonus, options, perks, etc) - and let them know that you're talking about an entire package. Since bonuses are often based on variable factors, it's fair for you to factor in the upper limit of your bonus potential. The message here is be honest, but also be thorough in how you detail things. Above all, be fair to yourself.

If you're good enough and an employer really wants to hire you - they'll pay what they feel you're worth to them, as opposed to just giving you a standard "raise" from where you are.

Good luck - stay confident, negotiate tough and get what you deserve!

Re:WARNING: Passive aggression detected!

[DigiShaman]

If you have asked for a raise and you've been turned down, inform your boss that you cannot continue at the current salary and that you would like to continue working there, but you will be forced to start looking for a new job if you do not get a substantial rase.

Be careful!!! I've been FUCKED OVER playing that song and dance. Last time I asked my boss for a raise, I got declined. Two weeks later he hired another employee as my replacement (a n00b) and then laid me off a week later for some lame excuse.

Point is, if you ask for a raise be prepared to rock the boat. Chances are, you might get thrown overboard for your stupid attempt at a course correction in your career.