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Salary Negotiation for an IT Position?
HerculesMO asks: "I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty large corporation. I know that I'm underpaid for what I do, and as such, I've been looking for another position. The problem is however, that a lot of potential positions ask for what you are currently making -- and it's a bargaining chip that the company I interview with will (and have) used to negotiate salary." Given that businesses usually base the salaries of new hires on their previous job, how can one arrange a fair salary if they were badly underpaid?
"I'm currently in a series of interviews with a company that I really like, the work environment, people seem young and friendly (like myself), and the business is something I wouldn't hate doing. I'm well qualified for the work, and their director already likes me. I just feel that, if I accept the position, I won't be able to bargain my way up to the market rate for the position, given it's such a leap from what I currently make. In New York, many of the companies require the disclosure of salary so just 'saying no' locks me out of a lot of potential positions."
Never tell them what you currently earn. Just tell them what sort of range you're looking for. If it's the kind of organisation that's worth working for, they'll understand that this is the relevant piece of information for you to provide anyway and not even question it.
If they start trying to dig, politely decline to tell them, saying that you don't think it's relevant and/or that you feel it's inappropriate to discuss the specific details of a professional relationship with another employer. (In some places, talking about salaries is bizarrely taboo, and most businesses will respect that the same way they'd respect you if you declined to talk about specifics of previous work because of a confidentiality clause: they'd hope for the same professional conduct if you were leaving them and working for someone else.)
If they persist even then, then they're the kind of place that pays what it can get away with and not what it should pay on merit, and you probably don't want the job anyway.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Companies can call, and sometimes will, call other companies and ask about your employment with them. They will try and get as much information as possible. Some companies will reveal your salary, and if that happens you're screwed.
"I'm currently making $X, but I believe that's below the market rate for my type of work and I really am looking for more like $Y."
If $Y is a reasonable number and you stick to your guns, you can probably get them to offer it.
Alternatively, if you don't particularly care about being honest, you could always just say "I'm currently making $Y" and there will never, ever be any way they'll ever know the difference. However, I think the first approach is more straightforward and just as effective.
-- Mark
I am so very sorry for you...
Tell them what you're making, and make it clear that the reason why you're looking for a new job is because you're aware that you're severely underpaid. Make it very clear that you will not accept a salary below whatever the standard is, or whatever it is that you want. You're in an advantagous position here, you already have a job and are currently well established so you can afford to be picky.
Don't do it. They call. Plus if you're looking at work with the federales, they will look.
I've gotten a lot of mileage out of a line I got from a WSJ Managing Your Career column a while back:
"I am hoping to receive a fair offer."
One guy I interviewed with even knew the article I was talking about and got some points for reading the journal.
But don't fib. It'll bite you in the ass.
quis fimum scribit?
If you're looking for a new job because your old one isn't paying you enough, what's the problem with telling prospective employers that? When they ask why you're leaving, tell them you're looking for more opportunities to advance and don't feel you're getting that at your current position - that's code for "they aren't paying me enough." The question of how much it is will inevitably come up, as you say, so just tell them. If you think a company may screw you based on your previous salary, that's probably not a good company to join. What you want is a company that will pay you what you're "worth," and they probably have a figure in mind for your position before you even apply.
As an aside, whatever they offer you, get it in writing, and be wary of things like "Starting at 40,000, increasing up to $10,000 after 3 month review," I've gotten screwed by that type of language before. "Yeah, It's only a $2000 raise, but we did say 'up to' $10,000! (wink, wink)." I started looking for a new job that very day.
rooooar
But after 2 years with the company. What helped me was I did a lot of homework, and I was honest. Told them I liked my work, and wanted to stay with the company, but these are my personal goals.... The one that made it for me was housing - I told them one of my goals was to own my home, in the city. Gave them a realestate map with the areas of the city I liked, and the median home price in each of those areas, and then the median income I would need to get a home in each area. They decided to invest in me and my goals. I don't have a home in the historical district I really like, but I have a very nice place with a shorter commute than many of my co-workers and one of the best school districts in the area.
I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress -J Adams
A companies first offer is their lowball, god what if this sucker goes for it offer. If you are currently employed, you have no pressure, so hit them back with a counter equally far above what you want. work your way to what you want, or as close as you can get them.
I have worked with folks who took the first offer, and made WELL below me for the same work.
BTW, I'm a UNIX system administrator, who does windoze only when absolutely required.
Just three more hours seapeople and you can finally take me away from this crappy God Damned planet full of hippies
A common misunderstanding is that NOT telling them your salary helps you. I believe that is wrong. First of all, many companies will immediately shut you out for not disclosing that. It can also leave a sour taste in the interviewers mouth if you continue to resist the question. Also, it might make the employer think you got paid an embarassingly low salary, which doesn't help your cause either. I mean if you were getting paid like a champ, you'd mention your salary to make sure you can get paid even more.
You make it clear - very clear - that your current salary is too low and that is a big factor in why you are looking for a new job. Sure, you might be able to fight for a raise and get it, but it's still too low. That means their offer has to be even more than what one raise might net you. You're telling them that if they low ball you, you aren't taking their offer.
Whoever throws a number out first sets the tone. If, for example, you make $55k, but want $60k, but you make them say a number first, there are scenarios where you can end up fighting an uphill battle. What if they offer you $50k? What, suddenly you're willing to disclose your old salary and tell them their offer is too low? Then all that talk about it not being "relevant" goes out the window and you look like a fool. And now you are stuck fighting your way *up* to your goal. Instead, had you made it explicitly clear your currently salary is FAR too low, told them what it is, and asked for $65k, then you place them in the position to have to fight their way down to $60k.
If you don't tell them what your salary was up front, they won't know where you are coming from and your salary request will seem like some phantom number you got from salary.com. You want credibility? If you can't justify why you should get paid what you are worth, you don't deserve the salary anyway. Tell them what you make and make them respect what you feel you should be getting.
Most company HR departments will validate current salary level requests. Large corporations often have hotlines dedicated to this, as the information is often required when applying for a mortgage or other financing.
It's a tough spot to be in when you are asked this question. When answering, make sure that you give a figure that represents your entire package (salary, bonus, options, perks, etc) - and let them know that you're talking about an entire package. Since bonuses are often based on variable factors, it's fair for you to factor in the upper limit of your bonus potential. The message here is be honest, but also be thorough in how you detail things. Above all, be fair to yourself.
If you're good enough and an employer really wants to hire you - they'll pay what they feel you're worth to them, as opposed to just giving you a standard "raise" from where you are.
Good luck - stay confident, negotiate tough and get what you deserve!
Most companies I have worked at provide bonuses, RRSP matching (think 401k, only up here, where it's colder) and other compensation. I also do some work on the side.
...".
By the time I add all that stuff up and tell them that is what I am currently making, I've pretty much reached the base salary I am looking for.
The key is in how you word it. Obviously you can't say "my current base pay is", you have to say "I am currently making about
Another key is to be somewhat vague. If you are making $65k/year, say "in the high sixties, looking for something in the low seventies".
If you are very underpaid, don't be afraid to mention this to your new employers as a reason you are looking for a new job. This will ensure they offer something above what you are currently making.
Also remember that when they offer you a job, it's an offer and it's probably not final. I've never accepted the first offer and always received a better offer.
I just feel that, if I accept the position, I won't be able to bargain my way up to the market rate for the position, given it's such a leap from what I currently make.
A feeling? You're basing business decisions on a fear?
Be honest. Decide for yourself whether you release information about a business relationship you had/have with another company. Then go into your interviews knowing what you will share and how you will share it.
Don't sit around and wonder what they'll do, or what they'll think.
You are developing business relationship. Be professional. Don't go in there hoping you do everything right, and in the process spend more time worrying about doing the right thing than about presenting yourself and your skills.
I have made a few largish jumps in the past (12%, 25%, 63%). Each time I went in and told them what I liked about their company, how I believed I fit in, and the range I expected to be paid for the position. Each time I was honest without telling them my current sallary. This last time several companies turned me down primarily, I assume, because I was asking for what I was worth. Eventually I found a position that was perfect for me, and apparently perfect for them.
But then, I don't bargain. I don't do counter-offers, and I let them know up front that I'm not interested in doing so. If they don't feel like paying what I'm worth, then I'll not waste any more of my time or their time.
Your mileage may vary, and unless you have the personality that I have these tips may not work for you. But I would suggest at minimum that you treat this as a two way business relationship. They are trying to sell you on the position as much as you are trying to sell them on your skills. Don't make yourself out to be the party with less power.
"We have hundreds of applicants, what makes you so special?"
"There are hundreds of campanies I could work for. I want to work for yours. Can you say that of your other applicants?"
-Adam
READ THIS BOOK.d _sim_b_1/002-6822999-5302459?_encoding=UTF8&v=glan ce&n=283155
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1580083102/ref=p
It's a handbook of negotiating techniques with specific regard to salary and job prospecting.
The golden rule?
WHOEVER GOES FIRST LOSES. Don't EVER be the first to mention a number.
The book is incredible, it really is. There are at least three different techniques for dealing with the "what are you currently making" question.
If you do nothing else before you have your next interview, read the book. If it doesn't help you, I'll buy it from you. I re-read the whole thing before EVERY interview to brush up.
I don't want to seem overenthusiastic, but this is one of the few things I can say works without a doubt. It's one of the most important books I've read in my entire career.
If you have asked for a raise and you've been turned down, inform your boss that you cannot continue at the current salary and that you would like to continue working there, but you will be forced to start looking for a new job if you do not get a substantial rase.
Be careful!!! I've been FUCKED OVER playing that song and dance. Last time I asked my boss for a raise, I got declined. Two weeks later he hired another employee as my replacement (a n00b) and then laid me off a week later for some lame excuse.
Point is, if you ask for a raise be prepared to rock the boat. Chances are, you might get thrown overboard for your stupid attempt at a course correction in your career.
Life is not for the lazy.