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Flexible Body Armor

dotmax writes "One item to pop out of the Turin Winter Olympics is the use of flexible body armor. Similar to silly putty, this shear rate material is flexible under normal load and hardens under impact. Sounds expensive, but could offer some great alternatives for traditional hard shelled impact gear in active sports and military applications."

44 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. Meh... Color me unimpressed. by XorNand · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Skiwear company Spyder, based in Colorado, US, developed racing suits incorporating d3o along the shins and forearms and offered members of the US and Canadian Olympic alpine ski teams the chance to try them out several months ago. "Now they love it and won't ski without it," claims Richard Palmer, CEO of UK-based d3o Labs, which developed the material.
    I don't get it. What's the advantage of using flexible armor on body parts that don't flex? If it works as advertised, seems like this product would be more useful on the torso, back, neck, or near joints. Maybe I'm just jaded, but I'd bet that the skiers really couldn't care less about it. The CEO, on the other hand, now gets to brag about his new technology being used in the Olympics. Cycling and golf is full of this type of crap--technology and jargon used more as a marketing tool than to really enhance the product's performance.
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    1. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by Jelloman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What's the advantage of using flexible armor on body parts that don't flex?

      Try telling a downhill skiier crashing into a wall at over 100 MPH that there are body parts that don't flex. I'm sure they'll happily believe you and give up their armor.

    2. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by Kelbear · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Please don't think I'm trying to be mean here. Assume a friendly tone:P

      But I don't quite follow. The grandparent poster was skeptical about the value of flexible armor over parts that should never bend. If your shin is bending significantly, your shin's probably broken.

      Flexible armor is useful over flexing parts of your body so that you can get maximum utility. Like a flexible elbow pad, it'd let you bend your elbow easier and more powerfully. But over your non-bending shin, you'd just want the strongest protection possible here right? Shouldn't be any cases where your shin is bending.

    3. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by rahvin112 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are advantages to having something flexible against your skin that will harden on impact. One of those is comfort. Hard plastic guards aren't comfortable and are very obvious (and more than likely hurt aerodynamics). In addition the forearms have muscles on them which if you use your muscles at all tend to flex and expand. Having a flexible soft guard on those body parts would be incredible.

    4. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by dogugotw · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Ever wear shin pads or arm protectors? Ever notice that they need to be strapped on and chafe like a SOB? I'd love to get my hands on something like this. Built into an undersuit, moves with you, no staps, lightweight and instant protection when you hit something. I'd like to know that my non-moving bones (shins, radius/ulna, skull) were wrapped in protection when the jerk in an SUV cuts in front of my motorcycle and takes me down.

      FWIW, this stuff sounds like what happens to a semi-liquid mix of cornstarch and water. Slide your hand in and it drops into the fluid; hit it hard and no penetration at all.

    5. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by Mahou · · Score: 2, Insightful

      yeh but those areas have muscles don't they? flexible armor would be better than hard armor in allowing the muscles more freedom to move while flexing without needing to the make the hard armor loose right? the bone of my shin is just a narrow part of my leg, and my forearm isn't a column of calcium either. doesn't the rest of it need protection too?

      --
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      ...te?
    6. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by Vellmont · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Try telling a downhill skiier crashing into a wall at over 100 MPH that there are body parts that don't flex.

      I doubt this stuff is going to have much protection against hitting a wall at 100MPH. The article says that racers are using this stuff on their arms and legs to protect against hitting the poles. I'm sure without protection hitting those poles as hard as they do is going to hurt like hell. If you hit a wall at 100mph, no amount of body armour is going to save you, as all your internal organs are going to be crushed in the impact.

      --
      AccountKiller
    7. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by eonlabs · · Score: 2

      Have you ever had a rigid shin guard strapped to your leg. If you have, you realize that after a short time, it starts to abraid your leg, because while your shin bone itself is not stretching and deforming, the skin around it is constantly moving. It's particularly obvious in the old rollerblades with the plastic tops that would strap over your shins. If the material can flow some, that means that not only will it be a close to perfect fit, but if it happens to shift off of your leg because you've jogged it out of place, it will re-form to the contours of your body and CONTINUE to be a perfect fit.

      --
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    8. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by pdbogen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I second this. I can't *wait* until this stuff gets into motorcycle gear. Gloves that turn to rigid gauntlets when I hit the pavement == win.

    9. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by Scarblac · · Score: 4, Informative

      But I don't quite follow. The grandparent poster was skeptical about the value of flexible armor over parts that should never bend. If your shin is bending significantly, your shin's probably broken.

      Close your left hand over your right lower arm. Now turn move your hand left and right, up and down, flex the muscles... that thing moves a lot. The shin likewise has muscles and two bones in it. Apparently the sporters like this flexible thing better than rigid protectors, so it seems to help.

      Why the poster calls this "body armor" i'm not sure though, according to TFA this is purely about shin and arm protection, the areas that get into contact with the sticks during slalom skiing.

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    10. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by MindStalker · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well PopSci also had an article about it (the print version, it should be on the web version in a few days). Apparently they are putting it into helmets it allows for a flexable beanie type hat to become a hardhat when nessesary. According to the article it wouldn't be good enough for a motocycle helmet but would be perfect for speeds skating for example.

    11. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 3, Insightful
      But I don't quite follow. The grandparent poster was skeptical about the value of flexible armor over parts that should never bend. If your shin is bending significantly, your shin's probably broken.

      Consider putting it over your upper arm. Your bicep flexes, the bone underneath does not. But if you've ever hit a gate at high speed, you'd LOVE some armor over your upper arm.
      A rigid plate works, but is much harder to work with. A flexible plate, that moves as your muscles contract, would be a lot better.

      Your tibia doesn't flex (a lot), but the skin and muscle between the bone and the outside world does.

    12. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hopefully this stuff brings us back to sword fights ala Dune.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    13. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by hazem · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you hit a wall at 100mph, no amount of body armour is going to save you, as all your internal organs are going to be crushed in the impact.

      And that's why skiers whould wear personal airbags!

    14. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by Pleb'a.nz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The point is, that they use them on "non-flexible parts" as an additional exo-skeleton to their skeleton to help strengthen limbs on impact so they dont break.

      I.e., you come hurtling at a wall.. you smack your shin on the corner.. the armour hardens to reduce impact inertia, therefore reducing impact on the bone and reducing the chances of a breakage. It's not bruises that kill the skiiers career, it's shattered bones :)

    15. Re:Meh... Color me unimpressed. by Barryke · · Score: 2, Funny

      lol lets not use that gloves for boxing.

      --
      Hivemind harvest in progress..
  2. This stuff does look really cool. by Shag · · Score: 5, Funny

    Since it only hardens on impact, could it also be used in hand weaponry?

    "Honest, officer, we just came across him and he was beaten to a pulp. You can search us, go ahead, we ain't got nothin' but our gym towels..."

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    1. Re:This stuff does look really cool. by Pulse_Instance · · Score: 5, Funny

      One more reason to never leave the home without your towel.

  3. impressive? by d34thm0nk3y · · Score: 3, Funny

    I might be impressed, but only if it uses a Holtzman Fields somehow....

    1. Re:impressive? by iggymanz · · Score: 2, Funny

      you'd have to watch out for slow blades and kids with laser pointers though.

  4. "Good jib Jimbo!" *slap* by 88NoSoup4U88 · · Score: 4, Funny
    Hehe, I guess they shouldn't be giving anyone wearing this a slap on the shoulder after a win: He/She will instantly be packaged in a concrete cocoon!*

    *Disclaimer: May be exaggerated

  5. Not for military really.. except maybe supplement by luvirini · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The things that happen when struck by a bullet or shrapnel are different than a skier hitting the ground. This material could perhaps help to make the impact plates, but the actual stopping of the penetration will likely need "normal means"

  6. Spy cameras? by eMartin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now when spies want to copy documents, they can just tear off a piece of their armor and press it against the pages.

  7. Viagra Replacement? by Jelloman · · Score: 5, Funny

    In other news, 98% of women polled can't wait until they start making condoms out of this stuff.

  8. Difficult to measure material's properties? by maynard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But Phil Green, research director at d3o Labs, says it is difficult to precisely measure the material's properties because the hardening effect only last as long as the impact itself.

    Certainly a researcher could take a sample of this material and strike it with increasing force using a material with known hardness. That might get them an answer beyond: "we don't know." I'm skeptical of this material's utility in a military application. Particularly as body armor against high velocity bullets and shrapnel. Woven carbon and Kevlar seem still unmatched in its capacity to take a high impact round. But, like I said, an assault riffle and a material sample could answer that question in minutes...

    1. Re:Difficult to measure material's properties? by ronanbear · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The strain rate hardening effect is velocity dependent but also requires time. As body armour is wouldn't be fast enough to stop a bullet. Hence it hasn't been used yet in military armour. It could be developed to have been ballistic properties. For example using it in conjunction with kevlar/ceramic armour might allow for lighter more flexible armour. There's probably a whole lot of development needed before that happens. It might be useful for other applications such as light armour to stop knives, clubs etc. For the moment sporting applications such as the ribcap allows this to occupy a place between tradional hard armour and soft padding. Sports like baseball, soccer and rugby could really benefit.

      --
      the more they over-think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the pipe
  9. Iain M. Banks by F34nor · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sounds like gel suit armor. Let's hope you like your suits personality.

  10. Could be great for inline skating, etc by JRock911 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I do a lot of inline skating and I can see where this stuff could be revolutionary for outdoor inlining, skateboarding, etc.

    Personally, I don't wear pads because they're uncomfortable. I do wear a helmet and palm sliders, which are supposed to help keep your palms from getting skinned up in an actual fall by serving as a buffer between your palms and the asphalt. In theory, they work pretty good. When you fall going upwards of 30MPH, they aren't a lot of help. Once you hit the ground, even if you initially brace with your palms, momentum is pretty much going to send you wherever it wants.

    Being able to wear a long sleeved shirt or pants made of this stuff to help protect the knees and elbows would be huge. I have a road rash spot on my elbow now from a fall last weekend. Granted I don't fall much.. that was the first time in over a year I've had a crash and it was a very minor crash but even still, I'd probably wear this stuff for safety if it was available and not terribly bulky. Most inliners who are serious wear skin suits or jerseys so substituting this stuff would pretty much have no downsides as long as, like I said, it wasn't too bulky.

    On the flip side, most skateboarders want to look "extreme" so this stuff might not be a huge hit with them. I personally like my skin intact, however.

  11. Sounds like non-Newtonian fluid by Meostro · · Score: 4, Informative

    Looks like they use a Non-Newtonian fluid, that's the type of material that has these properties.

    This was one of the cooler demonstration in my HS chemistry class, the teacher made up a big batch of water + corn starch, and was playing with it like mud, squishing it around and whatnot. Then he beat the hell out of it, and it just sat there and didn't splash, it looked (and sounded) like it was a solid sheet. It was odd to see something that was very dynamic under low force, but static under high force.

    It's like a seatbelt, if you yank it hard it locks up, but if you pull gently it will extend.

    1. Re:Sounds like non-Newtonian fluid by MustardMan · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's an entire field that deals with studying the properties of these and similar "weird" materials. It's called soft condensed matter. It happens to be the field in which I'm currently working ;)

      Corn starch is the standard example almost everyone uses when trying to describe our field to laymen. The other one we use a lot is the term "squishy physics", but that one sometimes gets us mocked by the ignorant who think "nuclear physics" is for smart people and "squishy physics" is for the dumbasses.

  12. powdered glass by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The original bullet-resistant vest was flexible. It was made of powdered glass, flexible until hit hard, at which point it would stiffen up and spread the force of the impact.
    -russ

    --
    Don't piss off The Angry Economist
  13. The point of flexible armour by xfletch · · Score: 2, Interesting
    What's the advantage of using flexible armor on body parts that don't flex?

    Having rigid plates even on parts of the body that flex less is bulky and cumbersome. Flexible armour is a great concept - far less noticable in normal conditions than some of the rigid ski body armour solutions e.g. Dainese

    BTW For the pseudo science and some nice pictures of 'molecules' see the 3DO website

  14. Re:any reason by Meostro · · Score: 2, Informative
    any particular reason these suits vaguely resemble that of spiderman's?
    From TFA:
    Skiwear company Spyder, based in Colorado, US, developed racing suits incorporating d3o along the shins and forearms...
  15. Needs to be like Flubber by coastin · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Similar to silly putty"

    If it were more like Flubber (if you remember this you are an old geek) the projectiles would bounce back at the source.

    --
    I lost my sig...
  16. I used to ski race as a kid... by tetromino · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...and frankly, this flexible armor sounds great. The reason you want some kind of protection is that you (sometimes in speed events, very often in slalom) run into gates (the plastic poles stuck in the snow that you have to turn around) with various parts of your body. Since you are going fast, and you are wearing a thin aerodynamic racing suit, it hurts like hell. So, if you don't feel like getting hurt, you strap on some plastic shin and arm guards, sort of like an Ancient Greek warrior with his greaves. Anyway, these plastic guards really are not the ideal solution. They chafe (since you are strapping them on tight, and the muscles and skin under the straps are constantly moving). They limit your motions quite a bit. They are, frankly, uncomfortable. And if you are doing speed events, they kill your aerodynamics.

    So, as far as I am concerned, flexible armor is totally the way to go. Hopefully FIS won't ban it.

  17. Very useful by xeeazgk · · Score: 3, Funny

    I want to get all my underwear made out of this stuff. That way I'll never have to wear a cup for sports.

    It would also help for when I want to be impertinent to feminists.

  18. Re:Larry Niven's impact armor by jkinney3 · · Score: 2, Informative

    John Brunner's "Stand On Zanzibar", 1968 Hugo Award winner. The item was called "karatands". A soft glove-like material until hardening on impact.
    This is a truly oustanding book that should be digested by geeks everywhere. The political and social points are even more relevant today that 30+ years ago.

  19. Getting the wrong impression by wrook · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think people are getting the wrong impression here. This is put into suits for slalom and super G athletes. It's not to protect you from a fall, but to protect you from the flags that whip you when you go around them. It's not going to save you when you crash into a tree. It's going to stop you from getting bruises on your arms and legs when you hit the flags.

    Cool idea. But probably not particularly practical in other applications (maybe useful for kendo??? -- but the armour's way cool, so why change :-) )

  20. Reaction time in the material by Elfich47 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For body armor purpses:
    The material's reaction time is probably related to how fast the shock-wave of the hit travels through the material. For the sake of arguement: The of the impact shockwave travels through the suit at the same speed sounds travels in water (sound is a shockwave). So it travels roughly 1482 m/s. So the shockwave would take roughly 0.0001 seconds to travel across my entire chest. Modern bullets can travel roughly the same speeds. In that same 0.0001 seconds a bullet would be several inches behind me.
    So here comes the messy part: Can this kind of stuff protect a person from gunfire?
    So a bullet hits a person wearing this stuff. In the first 10^-6 of a second the bullet travels .0004 (four ten-thousands) of an inch into me. In the same time the armor hardens in an circle with a radius of .0004in (For the sake of arguement a very thin bullet). In the next millionth of a second the bullet travels an additional .0004 of an inch into the target. The armor now also has a circle of .0008in in diameter. The affected area starts to grow rather quickly.
    Time Depth/Shockwave Area Affected
    0.000050: 0.2000: 0.1256637061
    0.000100: 0.4000: 0.5026548246
    0.000150: 0.6000: 1.1309733553
    0.000200: 0.8000: 2.0106192983
    0.000250: 1.0000: 3.1415926536
    0.000300: 1.2000: 4.5238934212
    0.000350: 1.4000: 6.1575216010
    0.000400: 1.6000: 8.0424771932
    0.000450: 1.8000: 10.1787601976
    In the time it takes the bullet to travel 1 inch into the body enough of the armor has hardened to cover 3 square inches of the target's body. Now the bullet has to deform or move that much more material in order to continue its trip in. Most likely the person could end up with a weird dent in their body where the bullet hit. This is of course dependant upon when the material fails and stops giving protection and how fast the shockwave travels through the material.
    Considering that though: I'd rather have a dent in my body then a hole.
    Currently the ski suits are used to protect against impacts against relatively flexible things at speeds above sixty miles per hour. So for the athletes to approve of it, it has to work pretty quickly and revert pretty quickly. You are in contact with gates for hundredths of a second and if the armor/fluid reacts fast enough for the athletes to notice and approve, you know the army is going to buy a suit and shoot at it to see what the results are going to be. Imagine the next round of (Disposable) ceramic armor plates that is sent to the troops in Iraq is coated in that stuff and it improves survivability.
    Hell, coat the inside of the flak vests in the stuff and have it sent to the firing range for testing. The army always loves things that do the following: improved force protection with less weight. While the army is a giant monolithic beuracracy it does actually get things done once in a while.

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  21. Neat but... why? by dbucowboy · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Another potential application may be sound-proofing. The propagation of sound waves should generate a similar strain to an impact, so it may be feasible to create a material that becomes more sound proof in response to increasing noise. "It could have some very interesting, unexplored properties," Green says.


    Kinda cool, but what is the point of scaleable soundproofing? If you want something to be soundproof, why would it need to ever increase or decrease sound proofability? Why not just make it as soundproof as possible from the start?
    --
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  22. Why shots penetrating the vest is a Bad Thing. by Fluffy+the+attack+ki · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let us assume that you are about to be shot in the chest with a 12 gauge 3.5" super-magnum slug, which is overkill for anything short of a bear, or maybe a truck. Let's also assume that you have the option of either wearing the thinnest vest that will stop that slug or nothing at all.

    If you wear the vest then when the slug hits it'll dump all it's energy into your chest. You'll sustain massive blunt trauma on the level of getting smacked with a sledgehammer. Lots of broken ribs, lots of bruising, possibly some organ damage and internal bleeding, if you're hit near the heart maybe death.

    If you DON'T wear the vest then the slug enters the front of your chest, dumps part of it's energy into your tasty meats, exits your back, and continues on it's way into whatever was behind you. It breaks any ribs it hits near, creates a big ol' permanent cavity through whatever organs are in the way, and paints the wall behind you a lovely shade of red.

    I don't know about you, but I think I'll take my chances with the vest TYVM. If I could get the vest lined with some of this stuff to help soak up some of the blow then even better.

  23. Re:Hard != Protective by Savantissimo · · Score: 2, Informative

    It isn't primarily the hardness but the stiffness that prevents blunt impact injury in armor design. The impulse is distributed over a wide area so that the peak force is less than the threshold for bruising. Crumpling is used in secondary foam in helmets (which does not contact the wearer directly). In helmets, the outer shell, the resilient inner foam and the skull provide the force-spreading function. Crumpling is not relevant to armor design since the purpose is not to absorb the energy but to distribute it, and crumpling material would be far too bulky for ski armor anyway.

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  24. Re:Hard != Protective by bjtuna · · Score: 2, Informative

    These suits provide protective padding for RACERS so they don't suffer bruises or breaks when the hit the gates. These suits are NOT for crashes.

    I am a competitive alpine ski racer. Watch the slalom (SL) events in the Olympics and you will see that every athlete wears hard protective equipment on his poles (to protect his hands), his shins, and usually on his head. This is because the tightest, shortest, fastest line down the course involves literally running over the gate. The athlete generally "cross-blocks" the gate, meaning his feet are on the correct side of the pole and angled outward, while his body is upright with the pole directly in his path; he simultaneously hits the gate with the protector on the front of his pole ("pole guards") and his shin guards. Furthermore, he's wearing a lycra speed suit that's got padding in several key areas including the front of the forearms, the back of the thighs, the deltoid area of the upper back, and the bicep area of the upper arm. This is to provide protection for when the athlete performs an "inside clear" instead of a cross-block, or if he loses his rhythm or something else that causes him to hit a gate where he's not wearing molded plastic armor.

    Or you could have just read the article.

  25. The slow blade penetrates the shield by aeon00100 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seriously, this stuff would be awesome for paintball armor.