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Rumsfeld Requests 24-hour Propaganda Machine
jasonditz writes "The BBC is reporting that US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld is unhappy with the existing propaganda systems in place and insists that the US must create a 'more effective, 24-hour propaganda machine' or risk losing the battle for the minds of Muslims. In an era where we've already got government-created and funded media outlets and the Pentagon bribing Iraqi journalists to run favorable war stories, not to mention other departments paying journalists to endorse their positions, it begs the question, how much more can they possibly do?"
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However, he also used his speech in Florida to claim progress in the war on al-Qaeda
So, who is flip-flop again?
Once regular sources of information have become tainted with disinformation, people will turn away to what they feel are more "trustworthy" outlets.
If you destroy TV, radio, newspapers and even the internet with lies, people in need of the truth will turn back to the pulpit, to obtain comfort and security from the man who spits bile at infidels, women and modernity, and who tells them that masturbation is wrong and menstruation is unclean and that we're all tainted by some sin that someone who never even existed committed.
I live in a country that was like this not too long ago. I'd rather not have to go back to it, or see anyone else forced to either.
May the Maths Be with you!
Its been my experience in talking to friends who are not US citizens and do not live here that the quickest way to get them to distrust any information source is for them to find out it is backed officially by the US government.
An even more sad fact is that speaking for myself as a US citizen and a US resident, that also makes me distrust the information source too. And I have found that to be true regardless of which party is in power.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
That is exactly what Rumsfeld wants. White propaganda. I mean, the Pentagon defended the Iraqi story plant thing by saying "everything we say is true".
... unless I was involved in some kind of weird human pyramid shit while I was there and came back home packed in ice.
So another words, say me and a bunch of troops brake down your door at 2am, shoot your father, tear up the place and take you to a horrible prison for six months and later releace you. You learn that they were looking for terrorists and real sorry for your father and gave your children some rations before they left, then Rumsfeld could say:
"We are helping the Iraqi people by fighting terrorists and feeding the Iraqi children."
Nothing he said was untrue, but your father is dead, you were in prison for six months and someone came into your house and busted the place up.
If some Iraqis came and busted up my house in the middle of the night and took me to prison, I know I'd have an IED with their name on it. Once I got out of prison that is....
Some say he is made with ascii, others that he is eyeballed daily by millions. All we know is, he is known as the Sig
lol...
That too is a cultural problem. I dont know who is going to step in and stop it.. but its certainly not going to be ME! And that is exactly how everyone there thinks.
Since I was a child, I was taught.. and all the kids around me were taught "dont get involved in other people's messy business." , "Its somebody else's problem" "stay away from trouble.. and those people are trouble".
That would explain the great deal of corruption, human rights abuses and tyrannical governments in that region of the world too. No one is willing to take it upon him/herself to take on the corrupt, the tyrannts, the fanatics and the other idiots. They just put up with it.. or leave. In my case.. I left.
American culture is different. They can and will intervene when there is a problem. A lot of todays americans are descended from people fleeing religious and cultural persecution. They were taught differently by their parents, as my children will be taught differently by me. We fleed once, and are in a land that will treat us well.. "make sure we dont loose what we have gained through so much hardship. It is your duty to intervene, and take it upon yourself to fight the corrupt, the tyrants and the fanatics from taking over".
So in summary, you guys might as well do it.. because you'll grow old waiting before anyone in that region of the world rises up to fight them.
- Tempestdata
After reading the headline I immediately had the thought 1984 pass through my mind. Slashdot is good at promoting that kind of thought. Then I went and read the article. And you know what? Rumsfeld is right. In many respects we in the west are losing the war of ideas with facist islam. I think it is very cynical and one-sided to call what Rumsfeld is talking about "propaganda" while conveniently neglecting to recognize that these islamofacists such as Al Qeada and similar groups in Iraq are already recognizing the tremendous power of propaganda and are using it on us. Do we recognize this? If we truly value our western society, free and open as it is, patriot act notwithstanding, then we should be very alarmed that somehow more and more people are becoming convinced of these other points of view that directly threaten our very way of life. If anything the cartoon stuff should illustrate that clearly. While I think the cartoons were in very poor taste, the fact that a few radical imams and clerics have managed to stir up a couple hundred million people over a simple drawing should be setting off some huge warning bells in our minds.
So how do we convince others that our way is better? We're going to have to talk to them. And that is the very definition of propaganda. Even Slashdot is really propaganda. It's not a bad thing; it's just the free expression of ideas with the intent to convince others of these ideas' legitimacy (trolls and OS religious zealots notwithstanding). I'm surprised that people on slashdot would bash Rumsfeld for saying these things since ensuring a free expression of all ideas is supported by almost all slashdotters!
So For those that don't care to read the article, Rumsfeld is merely saying that these people, who have sworn to destroy the west if they can, are using propaganda much more effectively than we are. We need to be better arguers (hint to all americans: western-style logic does not apply to the Middle East), and come up with better ways to help people see that having a totalitarian, facist, Islamic state is *not* going to bring about any benefit to them in terms of people or religion.
While I have huge problems with our current administration, I do understand the Middle East, and I recognize that some things have to be done. I greatly fear what will happen as these aberations of Islam continue to spread. As we can see from the Denmark fiasco, it's not just America that is being targeted. Islam is at a cross-roads. Maybe we can influence the cooler Islamic heads to bring back the original, peaceful meaning of Islam. That is what Rumsfeld is talking about.
I don't have any mod points, but I found your post insightful. Furthermore, I am glad that you have seen all the cartoons, and not just the one with the bomb.
Satire is a fundamental part of Danish culture. A large part of our recent entertainment is provocative - but lighthearted. No one is spared jokes - and at the risk of sounding offensive, the mentality can be summarized as:
"Nothing to us is holy".
Religions, Politicians (be they local, or world leaders), nations, languages, and first and foremost the Danes themselves are mocked in Danish media.
Some, I think, may frown upon such an attitude - the fact that there, to some people, now no longer exists something which is beyond scrutiny or playful jest. This mentality may be perceived as generally disrespectful or sacrilegious, bereft of principle or ethics - but to me, therein lies one of our chief principles: that northing is beyond jest or scrutiny.
It is my impression that many Danes now think less lightly about the cartoons, and many would rather not have had the (private) newspaper print the article and cartoons. Most are shocked by the reactions and lasting consequences. Many would agree with the news papers apology - but near to none would have our government apologize: they are separate bodies, and most Danes would never have the government intervene with the free press.
I stand by the article and the cartoons today; and I hope that most Muslims are not too offended. Equally, I would think it a sadder world, if comics or jokes involving Jesus or other religious characters were banned.
As an amateur cartoonist and professional graphics designer, visual expression is very important to me - and as a citizen of a democracy, so is the free press.
- Mad, ingenous - they've both left you puzzled -
Nope. Go educate yourself. Completely different group of people.
So to placate them
That's ridiculous. I bet your view would be slightly different if you were one of the hundreds of thousands of Muslims who were being displaced, tortured, prosecuted and massacred.
Number 1 - FROM WHO?
It was Saudi Arabia shitting their pants at 6 Iraqi divisions parked in Kuwait that asked the (previous) Bush administration to set up camp. The Saudis could not defend their asses if their collective lives depended on it. And of course if Hussein had actually marched into Saudi Arabia (over parts of which he also had vague historic claims) the world would be much different now.
Yes, liberating Kuwait wasn't a bad thing
Except if you're Kuwaiti.
We WERE going to march to Baghdad during that war
Absolutely not. Read up and educate yourself. That everyone and their mom wanted the 101st Airborne in Baghdad just for shits and giggles doesn't mean the administration was actually considering it. They never did.
no knowledge whatsoever of the area
That's rich, considering the ball of tripe you just wrote up.
Really? Go check out the Iranian mullahs. Here is a nasty secret. They are filthy rich. Also note that almost all of the 9/11 hijackers were fairly well off, and educated in Europe. For that matter realize that Bin Ladin himself was a very rich man before the US and Saudi's started cutting him off....
"But I see the reaction by other muslims to be more cultural than religious."
Sorry, but I'm not buying that one anymore. That argument just doesn't hold water when Muslims are rioting from Nigeria to Indonesia. Futhermore, isn't the culture in these countries defined, to a great extent, by Islam?
I think many in the West are finnaly getting wise to what the "religion of peace" is all about. After the Van Gogh murder, the subway attacks, the French riots, and now the "cartoon riots", I think many of use who once felt that islam was being portrayed unfairly are reconsidering our position.
Why would it occur to you that *that* is the choice to make? Out of the billions of alternatives, why chose those two?
That's perhaps the most frustrating thing that non-Muslims see in this whole situation. We hear constantly that "it's a small minority", etc., but we don't see moderate leadership taking that visible stand and trying stand up for civilization.
That is because western news outlets don't air the moderate views. It is far more inflamitory to air the radicals, and inflamitory news gets higher ratings.
You can quickly find the majority of moderate Muslim leaders decrying the cartoon riots and the associated outfall with a quick google search, but you won't find the same on CNN or Fox.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
It's a very deeply hostile situation there. You think it's coïncidence that the wars stopped when both sides got nukes? That doesn't mean there can't be another war between them, of course, but I don't think any serious observer of that situation doubts that the fact that both sides have nukes is a serious stabiliser. Neither side wants to commit suicide, and with both of them having nukes, that's essentially what it would be.
Iran has plenty of faults, but in comparison to their neighbors they actually look pretty good. Unstable? By what standard?
Why would it surprise anyone that the elected President (yes, unlike our "allies" in the region, Iran is a functioning republic) would voice the widely held sentiment of his countrymen that Israel should be wiped from the map? Why is that even considered worth mentioning? Who in the region, except Israel, *doesn't* agree with that?
The Israelis have tons of nukes, the Iranians are, at best, many years away from having one. The argument could be made that an Iran with nukes would actually make the region more stable. It's certainly done that in every similar case.
And finally, who says it's up to the US to decide who will be allowed to have nukes? That's exactly the kind of heavy-handed presumption, and bald-faced disregard for law, that makes the US so unpopular in most of the world already, and down that path lies only madness.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
"Thousands, perhaps even tens of thousands, of Jews have died because of this infamous forgery." -- Rabbi Joseph Teluskin
So, this is the propaganda that is always used when you want to get rid of people, "Sure they sound good in public, but in their secret meetings, they outline their evil plan."
I want to stress how bad al-Qa'ida has been for the world's Muslims, and how much harm its existence has done to them. As a terrorist organization, it is good at acheiving its own goals, but those have nothing to do with helping Joe (or Mohammed) in the street Muslim. They are mainly about:
1. Acheiving Political power for Bin Laden and company.
2. Scoring propaganda points to that end.
Any help to ordinary Muslims is merely a coincidental by product to these two ends. Do you think Bin Laden didn't know what would happen when his organization attacked the United States?
No Shi'ite can support al-Qa'ida because it would force them to change their religion, and the Shi'ites believe just as strongly as the supporters of al-Qa'ida. Why do you think that the U. S. is turning Iraq into a defacto Shi'ite state? Ironically, during the cold war, it was the Shi'ites who were considered the threat due to the loss of Iran, which is why U. S. (which created al-Qa'ida, I'll note, as a force to use against Soviet Russia in Afghanistan) supported Saddam Hussein for all those years.
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."