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Open Source in Politics?

tetraminoe asks: "Spread Firefox has a story about a student at the University of Florida running for student government promising to promote open source on campus. His platform includes expanding F/OSS on campus, using open file formats, etc. Is this the first time 'free culture' has become an electoral issue? Has anyone else made open source an issue at their university?"

68 comments

  1. WEWEEEEEEEE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YAY FORST!!!!!!

  2. It's a non-issue by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The real issues are tuition, professor quality, library resources, and campus safety (wide net encompassing dorm safety to the campus rentacops). Open Source is just a buzzword that gets play with a very narrow circle of jerks that think they know what's best.

    Besides, Open Source ought to be about freedom, which would mean that it should be as far away from politics as possible to ensure that everyone has the Freedom to choose whatever software they liked. Now, if the "IT director" in the computer labs wants to screw everyone over by installing a minority OS on all the campus computer lab PCs, that's an IT decision. It ought not be handled at the student government level.

    1. Re:It's a non-issue by mnemonic_ · · Score: 1

      You've got some sense, son.

    2. Re:It's a non-issue by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, please cast your vote for me. I'm running on the "My opponent is stupid and so are all of his supporters".

      Why yes, I am a Democrat. Why do you ask?

    3. Re:It's a non-issue by Musteval · · Score: 0

      No, no, vote for me. My opponent kills kittens in his spare time. And eats them.

      Why yes, I am a Senator. Why do you ask?

      --
      Note to mods: I'm probably being sarcastic.
    4. Re:It's a non-issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get the "I'm a Democrat" thing, but I don't get the "I'm a Senator" reference. Care to clue me in?

    5. Re:It's a non-issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm guessing he's refering to a certain, non-Kennedy senator from massachusettes.

    6. Re:It's a non-issue by oirtemed · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I beg to differ. Open source is a real issue. My school spends millions of dollars on MS contracts and has to upgrade their contracted Dell computers all the time just to keep pace. While Windows and other prop programs are needed, there is no reason that many of the workstations couldn't be switched over to linux. We have workstations dedicated solely to catalog lookups for the library. I would love to see the MS tax be eliminated there, all it needs is a web browser to run and MS support isn't needed on those machines. I would also sleep better at night knowing my personal information wasn't kept, most likely, on windows machines.

      I use openoffice and have never ONCE had a problem moving a document between here and the Word2000/MS machines at school. This tells me that there could be room for an alternative, especially when computer seats are so expensive. You could take dated hardware and convert them to word processing/web browsing stations for cheap.

      I don't know why I'm wasting my time with you, you are an obvious troll. Academic institutions are the places where freedom SHOULD be pushed. Open document standards should be the norm. This doesn't mean no MS machines at all. But there is room for OSS there. It's only a non-issue for those who can't wrap their heads around concepts like freedom, cost savings and portability. And freedom is a political issue. I suggest you take a class and learn what politics really are.

    7. Re:It's a non-issue by Musteval · · Score: 0

      No, just American politics in general.

      --
      Note to mods: I'm probably being sarcastic.
    8. Re:It's a non-issue by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      You're all fuckwits.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    9. Re:It's a non-issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't seem to have any argument other than "I WANNA". You sound like an egocentric 2 year old having a fit.

      Anyway, if you think living under the tyranny of Windows is bad at college, wait until you get into the real world.

    10. Re:It's a non-issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I appreciate, Mr. Sheth, that you feel this way so strongly.

      I hope that as you age that you don't lose this youthful enthusiasm. Perhaps you may find a better outlet for it than sitting around in front of glowing computer monitors spouting off about Freedom and other loaded words. Maybe channel some of that energy into taking a shower or helping the homeless or something.

    11. Re:It's a non-issue by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      "Academic institutions are the places where freedom SHOULD be pushed."

      Your statement that "freedom should be pushed" pretty much captures the essense of "free" software's idealistic double-speak.

    12. Re:It's a non-issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      taking a shower would be helping the homeless -- ie, himself, unless he's planning to live in his parent's basement

    13. Re:It's a non-issue by Kymermosst · · Score: 1
      The real issues are tuition, professor quality, library resources, and campus safety (wide net encompassing dorm safety to the campus rentacops). Open Source is just a buzzword that gets play with a very narrow circle of jerks that think they know what's best.

      As one of the people who was popular enough to get elected to student government (first a student Senator, then Treasurer in charge of $millions), I can safely say that nobody outside of the CS department here gives a rat's ass about Open Source software.

      If you want to win a student government election at a University (a public one, anyway) you need to focus on buzzwords that will actually get you elected. Specifically, you need to talk about:
      • Accessibility - Promise to find ways to allow poor people access to higher education.
      • Diversity - Promise to support diversity in the makeup of the faculty and students. This will gain you support of the various groups that have names in the form of ______ Student Union and _________ Student Assosiation. They can rally a lot of support.
      • Environment - Promise to encourage green practices at your university. Promise to lobby the government to crack down on polluters. This will get you the support of the local PIRG chapter.
      • Tuition - Promise to work on lowering tuition, even if you have absolutely no power to do so. This touches the heart of every student that doesn't have mommy and daddy paying for their education. It also avoids the complicated issue known as "the rising cost of education" that drives the tuition increases.
      • Textbooks - Promise to support causes that say they want to lower the cost of textbooks. This is a big issue as of late, and even though you have absolutely zero power to dictate prices to publishers, you'll get support.


      Of course, when I ran I just promised to do my best keep student government from wasting mandatory fee money on trips to Washington DC and off-campus 'retreats' (AKA hotel stays at student body expense). Seems that there is a fair amount of people who think that student government is a waste of resources. I agree. I also promised to hold the rest of the student government to their own constituion and to revise the same.

      I delivered a revised constitution to the voters the same year I ran for Treasurer. I got elected and my constitution was adopted. It's still in use without any further revisions and the student government is much more accountable.

      Neat, huh?

      If I'd ran on the platform of switching all of the computers on campus from Windows and/or MacOs and Microsoft Office to Linux and OpenOffice, I would have came in last in every single election and been written off as a nutjob by the student body.
      --
      "Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
    14. Re:It's a non-issue by pomo+monster · · Score: 1

      "...freedom SHOULD be pushed..."

      You sound like Stallman. Would society be freer if everyone were forced to remove their front doorlocks?

    15. Re:It's a non-issue by queenb**ch · · Score: 3, Insightful

      First off, your university doesn't spend squat on Microsoft products. Seriously, Microsoft gives them to us. I should know, since I'm in IT for a university.

      You know what a per seat license for Microsoft Office Pro costs at the educational rate? $6.00 and no, that's not a typo. It's 6 bucks, which is usually cheaper than my lunch on campus. Now that's if I want the disks. If I just want a license, it isn't even a whole $1. Retail for the same product is $450 per seat.

      You know how much the license is for Windows XP? Well, there is no "per seat" charge. We pay a few hundred bucks a year for the right to install it on as many University owned machines as we can. Retail for it is nearly $200 per seat.

      All of the other Microsoft products are priced similarly for education. The whole reason being that if they are cheap enough, we will use them and crank you out already assimilated. Welcome to the collective.

      If you want to whinge about Microsoft's TCO to a Universtiy, whinge where it will do some good. Complain about the additional costs of anti-virus "solution", the anti-spyware "solution", the patch management "solution", the anti-spam "solution" etc. Since *none* of these products come from Microsoft, we pay out the a$$ with your tuition dollars to cover them. That's what you ought to be mad about!

      Frankly, even at an initially higher purchase price, we'd be better off if everyone had a Mac. Still runs most of the proprietary software, runs Office for Mac, and doesn't need any of the above to remain in good working order 99+% of the time.

      2 cents,

      Queen B

      --
      HDGary secures my bank :/
    16. Re:It's a non-issue by rhendershot · · Score: 1

      >> First off, your university doesn't spend squat on Microsoft products.
      >> Seriously, Microsoft gives them to us. I should know,
      >> since I'm in IT for a university.

      Doesn't the fact of the unequal cost, in comparison to what home and smb/business users pay, directly drive what you in IT can do about choice of tools? By which I mean that executive decision-making based on subsidized price-model must surely belay any expense or change.

      I would guess that the only way this could change is in the political arena.

    17. Re:It's a non-issue by ottothecow · · Score: 1
      My school distributes a disk containing firefox and thunderbird (as well as some utilities most people never touch like putty) to all entering students. Next year that package will also include gaim so that people can interface with the jabber server they are pulling out of testing next quarter.

      The lab systems and such all run office and such but its not like they pay for it as stated by another poster. There are tons of sun thin clients displaying what looks like a windowmaker desktop running mozilla/firefox and a couple other random things spread out about the campus for checking email. The print servers in the dorms run FreeBSD with a custom WM that was written for the purpose (but is available to anyone in the ports tree).

      The CS department even teaches a course on "Free Software Practicum"

      Despite all of this, most of hte people dont know/care about the difference between OSS and traditional software and it definately wouldnt get someone voted onto the student government.

      --
      Bottles.
    18. Re:It's a non-issue by imroy · · Score: 1

      All good points, but most of your points can be addressed with F/OSS. I'm not claiming every problem/issue can be addressed with Free and Open Source software. But here are some suggestions.

      • Accessability. You know that there are many groups around the world that recycle old PC's, load them up them up with Linux and other F/OSS, and donate them to underpriviledged people. This could work in a university/college situation.
      • Diversity. Do non-MS users count as a group to encourage? Seriously. I tried to go back to uni a few years ago to finish my course and get a degree. But one of the reasons I left was because it had seemingly sold out to MS. I was practically attacked on an internal student forum when I complained about having to submit assignments in MS Word format. And in a database class (dealing fundamentally with SQL) the example tables for the assignments were provided in MS Access format. On a regular basis I was made to feel like an outsider, very unwelcome. Does that count as discrimination, or do I have to be black?
      • Tuition. How much of the student fees is going to MS and other large software companies? Computers and software are now a very important part of everyday life, and especially student life at a university/college. I'm thinking a lot of money could be saved by moving to Linux/BSD and other F/OSS, even just in the servers.
    19. Re:It's a non-issue by rtb61 · · Score: 1
      You also forget to point out that the failure of these institutions to promote open source software and solutions effectively eliminates choice from the students, forcing them down the M$ purchasing path during their time at the university and compounding that with the educational commitment in latter life for that student to continue paying M$ tax or spend time and personal cost in re-learning the system that will dominate, Open Office etc..

      Free/discounted copies for university staff should not be the driver for choosing a system nor the reluctance of staff to adapt to and learn new systems. Annoyingly I have even heard staff recommending M$ wordpad as an alternate to paying M$ for their version of the office suite, never even heard of Open Office.

      In addition to that, some are selling yesterdays M$ software on site and not even offering Open Office the free alternative for today and tomorrow or any other open source alternative software, even at a supposed student union bookshop. In my case being Australian the software is just an economic burden and the universities desire to continue that burden when it is not necessary is appalling.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    20. Re:It's a non-issue by cyclop · · Score: 1

      grandparent: "My school spends millions of dollars on MS contracts and has to upgrade their contracted Dell computers all the time just to keep pace."

      parent: You don't seem to have any argument other than "I WANNA".

      Well, the MS-driven waste of money looks like a very strong and practical, real-world argument to me.

      --
      -- Patent no.123456: A way to personalize /. comments with a sig attached to the end.
    21. Re:It's a non-issue by bobs666 · · Score: 1
      First off, your university doesn't spend squat on Microsoft products. Seriously, Microsoft gives them to us. I should know, since I'm in IT for a university.

      The parent is not Insightful its a troll.

      MS gives it to you to grow its' monopoly. They learned this from Apple.

      Education should prepare the student for the future. It might be, IMHO, But MS is the past. I would never send a student off with MS or a Mac. Both are proprietary software, that at best can only cope with the most general types of computer use. Where open source can be tailored and expanded. How to explain this quickly.

      If all you want is toast get a Toaster. But if you want more get an oven. Open source is like that. You can be happy with toast. But I say "Let them eat Cake".

  3. generally accepted by TheCarlMau · · Score: 1

    At my school, it is generally accepted that OSS is good, and Microsoft is bad. I really don't understand -- you can ask anybody at school, they will all say that Microsoft is bad. That's great -- they should think that -- but they don't know why.

    Although, all of computing is Apple based...

    1. Re:generally accepted by zyte · · Score: 0

      this is what pisses me off about slashdot as well. 90% of posters bitch about microsoft being shit and then when confronted about it they have no real reasons. I understand that there are some issues but you can't just jump on the bandwagon and bitch, especially when it's not something that's microsoft's fault.

    2. Re:generally accepted by jipis · · Score: 0

      From what I've seen in my school's CS department, F/OSS is favored for one reason: price. Most professors don't have the cash to cough up for huge expensive programs. (Of course, there's also the fact that when you're working on cutting-edge research, that year-old product just doesn't cut it. But, I digress....) And, it took over a year for the department to be able to replace a couple of severly under- and non-performing printers in the labs.

      When you look at it from that perspective, F/OSS seems like a pretty good idea. Not to mention, oftentimes the F/OSS solution is better software, too.

      (This isn't to say that MS is necessarily bad -- at least not in the eyes of the department. I just found out that they've got an MSDN Academic Alliance Membership which will let any student use almost any piece of MS software -- except Office, iirc -- for free. And, there are just as many PCs in the undergrad lab as there are linux PCs.)

      -J

    3. Re:generally accepted by Omaze · · Score: 1

      Not all Microsoft software is crap. Some of it's pretty nice in terms of ease of configuration and use. They picked up a bad name from Win95 which shipped with BSOD written all over it. A good portion of the bad taste came from the OEMs, as well, who used hardware with outright broken drivers and rarely provided CDs or floppies to restore even the faulty drivers in the event that the user wanted to reinstall the OS. Win98 first edition wasn't much better and by the time that Win98SE shipped everyone had already plunked down hard-earned money for yet another broken OS. Personally I thought that, for a single-user OS, Win98SE was pretty smooth. I never used Win2k or ME much. I heard the same moans, groans, and complaints but it seemed that most of it was due to hardware manufacturers who were again rolling out hardware with crappy drivers. To be fair, at the time, everyone was forging ahead at their own pace and with MS trying to outinnovate everyone to keep the entire industry under its thumb they created just as many problems as everyone else.

      Now with WinXP the core OS and the host of drivers to support the hardware underneath it has become more or less clean. The problem still lies with the OEMs. I just today received my new laptop (Mmmm. AMD64. Yum) and I've been futzing with it for the last 12 hours (yes, I did stop to cook and eat lunch and dinner in there) and still don't have a fully functional OS on it. Why not? When it arrived I planned on configuring Windows, updating everything as necessary, fixing a few of the questionable security settings, and then using Knoppix to steal all but the bare-bones necessary space so that I Debianize it. It took a little bit of work and effort to get everything in place for the qtParted venture (mostly because Windows insists on having DHCP or NBT and I didn't have a samba server installed). On this laptop it took a little over an hour to resize the Windows partition down to 9 gig, giving me 30 gig for Linux happiness. After stealing the space I rebooted to Windows to make sure that the resizing hadn't broken anything and found that, while nothing was broken, the OS and OEM installed crap was taking up 7.9 gig!!! Well, we can't have that since I am going to need some space for the Office 2003 that should be in the mail in the next few days so I proceeded to use cfdisk to completely wipe the partition table and began reinstalling Windows from the OEM WinXP CD. I had two partitions, one NTFS and one FAT, and I used the Windows Setup to format both. Since I formatted the FAT second, though, and WinXP doesn't ask you which partition to install on after the reboot (when you get to the graphical installer), it installed on the FAT partition. So now I'm installing. Again. On the upside I know I can shoe the whole thing into 2.5 gig... I have no idea what crack pipe my OEM was smoking. Even if I put WinDVD and Java back on that's only another 400 meg.

      I can install Debian three times over by the time the Windows installer finishes formatting a 5 gig partition (yes, I'm exaggerating a little and I was using full format), copying all of the necessary files, and installing. To be fair, though, once Windows is installed I can be up and running in another 15-20 minutes. With Debian I spend that difference in time fine-tuning and configuring the system. I'm not complaining about Debian, though. If I wanted a drop-click installation I'd use Gentoo or Ubuntu (so I've heard). I like Debian.

      So, you're right, not all MS is crap but between their follies from '95 until XP solidified and the OEM nightmare that still exists... well... Debian's never given me any trouble that I didn't expect. When I plunk down cash for an OS that's advertised everywhere by a company that holds the world's wealthiest man, though, I'd expect there to be a lot less hassle. I'm not saying it's all Gates' fault but the business practices of the company which he founded directly led to the hardware/OEM nightmare that is really the basis for all of the slamming that MS gets.

      EULA or not... never charge good money for a beta product. A company releasing a beta product definitely shouldn't be singing its own praises, trouncing competition using shady tactics, and making life in general difficult for the users.

      --
      The government itself is not stealing your liberties. Their new programs are enabling criminals who will.
    4. Re:generally accepted by EzInKy · · Score: 1


      this is what pisses me off about slashdot as well. 90% of posters bitch about microsoft being shit and then when confronted about it they have no real reasons. I understand that there are some issues but you can't just jump on the bandwagon and bitch, especially when it's not something that's microsoft's fault.


      Microsoft's EULAs are Microsoft's fault and provide more than enough reasons for people to bitch about Microsoft.

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    5. Re:generally accepted by jcr · · Score: 1

      90% of posters bitch about microsoft being shit and then when confronted about it they have no real reasons.

      Guess again.

      Do you honestly contend that 90% of the people complaining about Microsoft have never personally been affected by the dismal quality of their products?

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    6. Re:generally accepted by nirnimesh · · Score: 0

      Same at my institute as well. Open Source, Free Software, are not just buzzwords. People involved with these are treated as technical gurus in our campus, since they are the people who get things working with the most efficacy. Needless to mention, all our server use open source software, and all the sysadmins are hardcore linux fans.

  4. Promising things that have already been done? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was a student at UF (just graduated in December), and as far as I can recall a lot of the computers had Firefox on them already. The main CISE lab has it; the "dungeon," a computer lab in the basement of the CS building, even has some Linux computers (among Windows and Sun boxes)! So I suppose this is typical of a politician, promising things that have basically already been accomplished.

    1. Re:Promising things that have already been done? by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 1
      ...as far as I can recall a lot of the computers had Firefox on them already...

      You do realize that "Open Source" is more than that nifty FireFox browser and Apache web server... Right?

      --
      "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
  5. You Gotta Be Kidding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    You think a kid running for STUDENT government at a college really means something larger because of his Open Source platform?

    I mean, really, please get a grip here. Most student governments are jokes anyways, people will run on any wacky platform to get a few meager votes from the student population.

    If this was an REAL election, you might have a story. But this is like reporting on a Model UN or Boy Scout meeting. In other words, it's completely meaningless.

  6. Here's one reason: by thepotoo · · Score: 1
    Two words: Internet Explorer.

    Has caused me more headaches than anything else. Relatives/friends insist on using it and expect me to clean up their machines. Security is nonexistant, websites are allowed to execute programs on your harddrive (WTF kind of website needs to do that?), and, to add insult to injury, it got bundled with Windows to gain its marketshare.

    Oh, and dont get me started on the proprietary extensions to HTML/CSS.
    argh!

    --
    Obligatory Soundbite Catchphrase
  7. Zero Power by Secret+Rabbit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Considering that a student has zero power to dictate the technologies on campus, I'd say that this is nothing but an attempt to get the votes of the Comp. Sci. students.

    Here's how the converstaion might go:

    Student: We should only use open tech.

    Administration: But M$ promised us ...

    Student: But, there tech. is broken; it doesn't work as advertised.

    Administration: Well, who are we going to believe. You a scruffy Arts student or the knowledgeble M$ salesman that we relate to?

    Student: But...

    Administration: Sit down!

    1. Re:Zero Power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want educational types to listen to you, maybe you should try learning basic grammar and rhetoric skills first.

    2. Re:Zero Power by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter. Plenty of candidates comment on stuff that's way outside their jurisdiction or they are largely powerless to change, just to win votes. We have MPs in the UK parliament raising things called "Early Day Motions" and having a vote on them. They don't actually change anything, but they can show to voters who don't know that they feel strongly about a subject.

    3. Re:Zero Power by Secret+Rabbit · · Score: 1

      Not saying what you said isn't true. Certainly it is. People do make promises that they don't have the chance to keep to get votes. But, in the context of this article, I find what this canidate is implying, is quite dishonest. That was pretty much my point.

      And I don't really think that it is appropriate to compare what goes on in the UK parliament to what goes on at some university. If only because of the scale and importance, differences.

  8. Sounds more like Politics in Open Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doesn't sounds so much like he's trying to get open source into use in politics, but more dealing with political issues involving open source.

    1. Re:Sounds more like Politics in Open Source by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 1

      I think he's probably trying to get laid.

      --
      "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    2. Re:Sounds more like Politics in Open Source by LeonGeeste · · Score: 0

      What do you know about getting laid? Oh, that's right, your four wives. Plus the 72 virgins in heaven when your blow yourself up to take down some Jewish babies.

      --
      Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
    3. Re:Sounds more like Politics in Open Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he's probably trying to get laid.

      yeah, that'll work as a pick-up line — Are you an Open Source type of girl, babe? ... on second thought, no, that won't work at all. He'd be more successful trying to fend off girls with that one.

    4. Re:Sounds more like Politics in Open Source by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 1

      You got it, baby.

      --
      "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    5. Re:Sounds more like Politics in Open Source by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 1

      But you know what they say about geek girlz, right? They're wild in the sack, they'll do anything you want, they'll ware you out!

      --
      "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
  9. Well... by Evro · · Score: 1

    Given how ignorant the overwhelming majority of the populace is (and continually opts to be), and how many people support the current U.S. administration's utter anti-openness, I don't see someone running on a platform of open information going very far. If you ask the average American if they support jailing a reporter for printing a story that says that the government has been monitoring all international phone calls since 9/11/01, "to keep the U.S. safe from terrorism," they'll more than likely say yes. Nevermind that this is an issue that goes to the very core freedoms on which the country was founded, and only petty thieves are stupid enough to pick up the phone and call their cohorts overseas to discuss their next nefarious scheme. Secrecy is the name of the game now. Just look at the documents that the CIA's been secretly reclassifying after Clinton declassified them. Maybe on a college campus it could work but we live in a nation where openness is bad and ignorance is bliss.

    --
    rooooar
    1. Re:Well... by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      only petty thieves are stupid enough to pick up the phone and call their cohorts overseas to discuss their next nefarious scheme.

      In all fairness, that's not a historically accurate statement. Mafia cases have been, and continue to be, decided on wiretap evidence, despite the fact that Mafia Boss X replaced Mafia Boss X-1 after X-1 was sent away on wiretapping evidence.

      Sure, they're careful most of the time, but it only takes one slipup. One "oh sh1t, I don't have time to find my encryptor" or "I'm so angry I'm just going to threaten to kill someone right over the phone."

      That said, illegal wiretaps are unconstitutional, and trampling civil liberties to preserve "freedom" is the perfect example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. I'm just saying the argument that they're ineffective isn't the one you should be making. They are effective, and as long as people make mistakes, they will continue to be effective.

    2. Re:Well... by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Unless of course the "bosses" arrested are scapegoats and the slips are intentional.

    3. Re:Well... by Sinryc · · Score: 1

      I wish I had mod points. That was REALLY off topic. You go into a rant about the Openness of the goverment in a diffrent way than intended. Way to go WAY off topic.

      --
      Yay, I have a sig.
    4. Re:Well... by thedletterman · · Score: 1
      "If you ask the average American if they support jailing a reporter for printing a story that says that the government has been monitoring all international phone calls since 9/11/01, "to keep the U.S. safe from terrorism," they'll more than likely say yes. Nevermind that this is an issue that goes to the very core freedoms on which the country was founded, and only petty thieves are stupid enough to pick up the phone and call their cohorts overseas to discuss their next nefarious scheme"

      The entire reason we created a federal government was to provide for our collective defense. To say the government in protecting its citizens from terrorists are violating the 'core freedom' on which the country was founded is bullshit. The government has engaged in espionge during every war it has fought. In fact, it was Benjamin Franklin who said in respect to Presidential secrets, "we find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many members to keep secrets." President Jefferson hired foreign mercenaries to invade Tripoli and free American hostages, and did not inform Congress in advance. So it is clear that the Constitution's original intent was that the president had the authority to take undisclosed actions to protect Americans. You make it out to be the target of the President's actions are presumably innocent US citizens, but in fact they have never been. The idea that espionage doesn't work.. well now I'm just convinced you're an "useful idiot".

      --
      Any fool can criticise, condemn, and complain, and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
  10. Remember that student government has no power by Captain+Tripps · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They can lobby the state government over tuition, which might do some good, although the higher-ups are already doing that. They have less influence then the faculty senate, so it's unlikely they can do anything about professor quality. Libraries and campus safety are probably reasonable things to focus on, but in most cases, there's only so much student government can do, for good or ill. At my school (we're talking 2000-2004) the Black Caucus alone was more politically powerful than the undergraduate senate. Plus, this guy isn't running for president, just a regular senate slot.

    So I think increasing Linux and open source adoption is a totally reasonable goal. There's probably a contingent of the IT department who are in favor of it already, and having the support of student government makes it that much easier to justify their plans. Sure, if I was the IT director, I wouldn't want students telling me what OS to run on the web server, say. But for the computer labs, why not? Reserve some machines for Linux, install Open Office and Firefox on the Windows ones, avoid IE-specific web content on University sites, etc. Sounds like a practical plan to me.

    And yes, I know there's more to Baker's platform than this, I'm just addressing the part of it that the parent brought into question.

  11. empty computers by Xtravar · · Score: 1

    If all the computers used Linux, there wouldn't be so many idiots using them for AIM and other teenage nonsense. Then the students who have projects to do will get to do them in a timely fashion during normal hours!

    Being a former college student, I am all for this. Less exploitation, less jerking off, more getting work done... and if the kids learn to jerk off in Linux, more power to them.

    --
    Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
    1. Re:empty computers by linguae · · Score: 1

      I disagree. Once they open up Gaim or Kopete (or, even easier, open up Firefox/Konqueror/some other *nix browser and load AIM or Meebo), then they'll be chatting on their machines.

      Nothing will get in the way of high schoolers/ college students and their IM/MySpace/Facebook/whatever hit of the day. Unless you give them a command line, but if they find naim....

    2. Re:empty computers by Xtravar · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's why every Windows computer in the CAE was being used, but every Unix machine was not... and how the Linux labs never hit their maximum capacity...

      You'd be surprised at how easily idiots give up.

      --
      Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
    3. Re:empty computers by Secret+Rabbit · · Score: 1

      And if there is no Windows option?

  12. Replace unsupported hardware? by tepples · · Score: 1

    there is no reason that many of the workstations couldn't be switched over to linux.

    Other than lack of budget to replace hardware that has no working Linux driver?

    1. Re:Replace unsupported hardware? by imroy · · Score: 1

      We're not talking about home PC's here, with people wanting to plug in their latest printer, scanner, webcam, or other USB gadget. In a university computer labe or library sitation the only hardware concern might be the network and graphics cards. But Realtek network cards/chips are pretty common and well supported under Linux, and graphics support under Linux/XFree86/Xorg is much better now than it used to be. An old generic card will do in most cases, for media labs (3D, etc) put in some nice nVidia cards and use the binary driver. But that's no different to Windows. So where's this great cost of which you speak?

    2. Re:Replace unsupported hardware? by tepples · · Score: 1

      In a university computer labe or library sitation the only hardware concern might be the network and graphics cards.

      I'm not necessarily talking about a well-funded university; I'm talking about K-12 public school computer labs, which tend to be more cobbled together.

      An old generic [2D video] card will do in most cases

      But is the video card in the donated machines a supported "old generic card"?

      So where's this great cost of which you speak?

      Scanners, for one thing. Graphics tablets. If you want to bring in university, microcontroller programmers (e.g. PIC, BASIC Stamp, CPLDs, FPGAs). Those aren't guaranteed to be supported on GNU/Linux, are they?

    3. Re:Replace unsupported hardware? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Other than lack of budget to replace hardware that has no working Linux driver?

      Bullshit. Universities don't tend to have bleeding edge workstations. They prefer a bit older but reliable. They are not like your average consumer/gamer. You should be able to install linux with close to no problems. How would you justify putting XP or vista for that matter on 6+ year old hardware? You'll ocassionally find systems like that sitting around that probably missed the update cycle for some reason. Would you not be paying the cost of replacing systems? The problem is better said by a poster above: Windows doesn't cost them shit. Hell, my copy of windows was given to me by microsoft, together with visio and visual studio. Microsoft isn't stupid enough to let me go when they know that the IT students of today will be the IT pros of tommorow. To bad for them I'm also not stupid enough to dismiss open source for a free meal.

    4. Re:Replace unsupported hardware? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not necessarily talking about a well-funded university; I'm talking about K-12 public school computer labs, which tend to be more cobbled together.

      Well you could look at what the original poster was talking about before you started trolling.

      But is the video card in the donated machines a supported "old generic card"?

      How many "old generic cards" do you know that are not supported in linux? Give me a two digit number of them, and I'll take into account this great risk of incompatibility you speak of.

      Scanners, for one thing. Graphics tablets. If you want to bring in university, microcontroller programmers (e.g. PIC, BASIC Stamp, CPLDs, FPGAs). Those aren't guaranteed to be supported on GNU/Linux, are they?

      Sure some will work great under linux, but if you reread the original post, he was talking about replacing windows on a machine that only neaded a web browser. Not a complete switch of all machines. That's exactly what I would suggest also... Windows isn't that bad, but you don't need to troll everytime someone is proposing a switch.

    5. Re:Replace unsupported hardware? by PeterBrett · · Score: 1
      Universities don't tend to have bleeding edge workstations.

      My college at Cambridge just got some new desktops. They're dual-P4 systems with a gig of RAM each, and they're primarily used for word-processing and surfing the net. Guess how long they take to go from Windows' login screen to a usable desktop?

      FIVE GOD-DAMN MINUTES?!?!?!?!??!!

      *beats head against desk*

      This is while the Engineering department use Knoppix (well, MDP) workstations that take 5-10 seconds to log on to and are just as usable....

    6. Re:Replace unsupported hardware? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows 2000? There's something wrong with the boot up process in that OS.

      XP, OTOH, seems to be up and running before I can take a sip of coffee.

    7. Re:Replace unsupported hardware? by PeterBrett · · Score: 1

      As I said, it's to get from a login screen to a usable desktop... the computer services office here install so much crap on the XP systems that it actually beggers belief.

      Having been a long-time W2K user before switching to Linux, I can tell you that W2K would boot on a 500 MHz Celeron laptop faster than these dual P4 systems log me in.

    8. Re:Replace unsupported hardware? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My college at Cambridge just got some new desktops. They're dual-P4 systems with a gig of RAM each, and they're primarily used for word-processing and surfing the net. Guess how long they take to go from Windows' login screen to a usable desktop?

      FIVE GOD-DAMN MINUTES?!?!?!?!??!!


      This is the case in my university also! We have single p3's with a ton of memory (512mb). Win2k should be flying on them, but they are just overloaded with alot of heavy apps (from matlab, xilinx to java development tools). Xp wouldn't make a big differance. Redhat on the same system is up in a minute or less. But as I said in the first post, universities tend to stick with reliable hardware. A dual system is almost certain to work with linux because your talking about a server class product and I'm guessing they don't have any weird hardware on them. Hell, I'm running linux on my old p2 laptop with 192mb ram and it beats the crap out of my university's p3's when running w2k... I'm not saying switch them all to linux, I just disagree with the ggp about linux incompatibility! It's useually not that big an issue in universities...

  13. My campus dual boots by Facekhan · · Score: 1

    At UMBC all the lab computers dual boot to their own Linux which is pretty much Fedora. Granted we are probably one of the most geeky universities in the country. Go Chess!

  14. Pro choice by Half+a+dent · · Score: 1

    There should be a range of operating systems/browsers as this will aid education. Open source to open student's eyes to alternative software but M$ too so that when they get a job they can use the software that their employer probably uses!

    In the UK, schools/colleges previously used bespoke hardware/software solutions to teach IT which were of questionable value when faced with a computer in a real work environment.

  15. What Makes That a Windows Issue? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

    What makes you think they wouldn't install the same amount of crap on the Linux machines? Out of curiousity...

    1. Re:What Makes That a Windows Issue? by PeterBrett · · Score: 1
      What makes you think they wouldn't install the same amount of crap on the Linux machines? Out of curiousity...

      I've no doubt they would. However, most of the equivalent software on Linux starts at boot time rather than at login time, and runs as a daemon that stays running between user sessions, rather than being (re)started for each session. The main bottleneck on the current systems is the hard disk (CPU load and RAM usage seem fairly reasonable); if the crap was already memory-resident when I came to login, I don't think I would notice it at all.

      You literally would not believe the amount of crap they've put on these systems, and they've very carefully locked it down so that you can't get rid of it. Amusingly, the extent to which they've locked the systems down renders several of the programs they've installed totally useless!

      Note to self: write bitchy e-mail to the computing office complaining about the login times....

  16. You racist puddle of pond scum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not finger fuck your arse. It's the only sex you're likely to get.