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RFID, Sign of the (End) Times?
andy753421 writes "Wired is running an article featuring Katherine Albrecht who, with her new book 'The Spychips Threat: Why Christians Should Resist RFID and Electronic Surveillance', is warning that RFID tags may in fact be the "mark of the beast". Among her arguments are that in a futuristic world anyone who wishes to buy and sell goods would be compelled "to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads," as is foretold in the book Revelation. Others are skeptical saying that many new technologies, such as the printing press, bar-codes, and several others, have also created fears about the beginning of the end."
Get it? Huh? Huh?
// This is not a sig.
Just because those other inventions weren't the mark doesn't mean this one isn't.
every society has had an end, the mayans, egyptians, romans, greeks
it all comes to an end, if you truly think the culture of greed, capitalism and consolidation can continue for ever then you are deluded, so when that time comes how will we know ? at what point do we give up and start again ? 20 years ? 50 ? 100 ? 500 ?
its not IF but WHEN
why are you guys posting articles by some flakey Christian who thinks progressive technology is the devil?
now maybe Christian fundies can occupy themselves railing against something harmful, rather useful things like evolution or Middle East peace talks.
40 years ago, it was the 'social security card'....20 years ago people said barcodes were it.. in anoher 20 it will be something else... no need to panic.
Now if some guy with horns and a tail, and breathes fire, comes out waving an RIFD injection machine THEN you can panic..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
you may defeat the beast by wearing a tinfoil hat (or glove)?
^[:q!
...relative to their believe is that the "mark of the beast" means that you have to recant your faith to recieve the mark. Unless they can make that claim and back it up, it's a meaningless claim. Bar codes supposedly have "666" encoded into them, but that is only because of ignorance of what the bars mean, and I don't remember anyone recanting their beliefs to get one assigned to their body.
It seems like every generation comes up with a sign for the mark. Here is my brief history of the mark of the beast. Feel free to add yours.
Social Security Numbers
Punchcards (They used to be included with your utility bills)
Drivers License Numbers
Credit Card Numbers
Bar Codes
IP Addressess
Bill Gates full name converted to ASCII and summed.
CPU IDs
and now.... RFID (Which is really just a modern bar code.)
I think the "mark of the beast" might be figurative language in the book of Revelation, but talking about apocalytic literature can be like running the Boston marathon is quicksand. It is amazing how a 10 page book of the Bible could be expanded into a 2000+ page box set and miniseries. Maybe 666 is just a number that represents imperfection three times over.... What? I pity the fool that says the mark of the beast isn't a literal number stamped on the forehead... Ow, don't hurt me Mr. T....
Well, I'm not particularly religious myself, but if you look at the current state of American society, it could just as easily be said that the ongoing failure of organized religion to maintain the effective forms of social control it exerted for centuries is more of an issue than their "crazy belief system." If you are referring to the conflicts that inevitably occur when fundamentalist groups of any stripe butt heads I might agree ... but America is, by and large, becoming less religious as time goes on. Don't confuse the copious quantities of white noise being generated by the more vocal subcultures as being a reflection of more mainstream value systems.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Revelations is a perfect specemin of apocalyptic literature. Here's a good definition of such literature: Hermeneutics.
It's written to warn and to use descriptive language to explain what the future holds. The idea of head and right hand are frequently used to depict what we think (head) and what we do (hand). As such, in this particular instance, the warning is not when we have implants in our heads or hands, it's when we think and do evil things.
Interpreting apocalyptic literature as truth verbatim is not only stupid, it's dangerous.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
Everyone who thinks that somehow, someday, everything is going to switch over to an RFID system are insane.
Lemme tell you why: The Black Market
The black market is never going to dissappear. It is fueled by personal anonymity and cash (because cash money is anonymous).
While the black market isn't necessarily something to be proud of, it shows up whenever there are market inefficiences or certain niches that aren't being fulfilled.
Money from the black market is like money from Bush's tax cuts... it trickles down into the rest of the economey and boosts it up.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Others are skeptical saying that many new technologies, such as the printing press, bar-codes, and several others, have also created fears about the beginning of the end.
Barcodes and print can be covered. Credit cards and magnetic stripes have to be practically inserted into the machine to read em.... the field strength is too weak otherwise. If you keep em in your wallet your are safe.
All of the other technolgies that might be used to track your actions require you to willingly and deliberately use them. You don't have to use plastic to pay for purchasses is one example. Use cash.
With RFID tags, they can be read from within metres of you so anyone just passing by you on the street can access all of the tags on you if they like. Anyone outside your house can read all of the RFID tags on your household equipment, books, porno, etc and figure out a bit about you completely without your knowledge.
RFID is this technology that nobody really cares about except the people who would want to misuse it and the tinfoil hat brigade. Problem is that the tinfoil hat brigade will be made out to look like crackpots by the people who seek to abuse the technology.
I drink to make other people interesting!
If only that had been arbitrarily put in and Revelations left out. We'd all be talking about how Jesus went to hell and that after the Apocolypse, if those who ascended to heaven asked to for clemancy for those in hell, it would be granted. Guess it just didn't have the fire and brimstone to keep the stupid peasants under controll that all the 666 bullshit and no redemption theme Revelations does.
The worst thing about modern so called "christians" is that they don't know thier own history.
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
Christianity does not believe end times are heralded by RFID tags, some Christians do. That is what separates Christianity from crazy cults, since it is large and diverse enough to have people make up their own minds on such things. Cults need centralized leadership to tell its adherents what to do and what to believe, Christianity hasn't got a central authority and so its adherents are free to interpret the canon however they see fit and form groups where they share crucial facts of their interpretation. Most Christians believe the book of Revelation to be a non-literal message about what kind of persecution the church has faced and will face in the time between Christ's first and second coming, others believe it is an allegorical prophecy of the history of the thousand years after it was written in about 50AD and some (like the RFID nutter) believe that it is an allegorical prophesy of the thousand years before Christs second coming (whenever that may be). What almost all scholars agree on is that whoever the beast may be is irrelevant when one simply holds to the principles that the bible teaching when dealing with the beast as with dealing with anyone, thus finding the beast is pointless. Unfortunately, not all Christians are scholars and some like to draw shaky parallels and make accusations without merit.
I know I have just bitten a troll, but someone had to clarify it.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
It's just plain silly to use religion to try to manipulate politics this way. Anybody can see why RFIDs are simply not economically viable.
I am currently working with one of the RFID companies that is "working" with Wal-Mart on the actual implementation of RFID. Let me tell you that there is no foreseable ROI in the near future. Currently at a cost of about 25 cents a tag, it is much too expensive to be worth it for anyone. The technology is in its infancy so there are so many problems we have encountered so far.
One of the problems is the tags. Not only do they cost so damn much, but they are also not very high quality. There's a feature called "locking" which allows you to set a number on the tag and not allow it to change, but when using this we have too high a failure rate to be effective (10-30% depending on the tag type). So we had to turn off the locking, meaning its much easier to change the unique number associated with the tags (which will be a problem when tags hit the retail sector) and now we only get around a 1-2% failure rate. But when doing high volumes, even this small percent is expensive to deal with.
Another is the hardware. Part of the tag writing problems we have seen may be due to the tags and/or the reader/writer units. But right now, some tags get created and written to with no problems, but when they go by a reader, the reader just does not see a number on that tag, meaning as i said before its either a bad tag or some sort of incompatibility/problem with the reader unit. Currently we are trying to get the tags applied cost effectively, but unfortunately its pretty much boiling down to using people to grab tags from a RFID printer and hand-apply everything.
We have also been having trouble verifying all the product on a pallet, and certainly cannot expect to read 100% of product 100% of time. Some product is easy to see, but depending on the density/material in the materials on the pallet, it can be very difficult to read many of the tags.
Software is another hinderance. While the company i have been working with has had its large share of problems in the last few months, they are getting better, but still are not perfect. And unless things work perfect, it can cause so many problems. One small chink in the software can make it inoperable (essentially crashing the software a-la Windows), but the software is slowly getting more and more stable.
We have six billion people on the planet. Over the next five hundred years, hundreds of billions will live and die. Most of them will spend most of their lives suffering terribly. They will starve, kill each other, rape, drug themselves to death and more.
If the six billion alive today suffered through the apocalypse now, it would prevent the suffering of hundreds of billions. More, really, since you can extend this for as many thousands of years as you like. It's clear that the sooner the world ends, the fewer people will suffer, and the sooner those of us who are righteous will be in heaven.
Just one of the reasons God is clearly a son of a bitch.
Religion is really about defining for us what the purpose and meaning of our lives is, or should be. In this respect, America and the west at large is definitely losing its religion. It isn't simply becoming a-religious though; religion is being replaced in our society even more than it has before by the indirect worship of materialism.
How do we define our lives? Work... for most people, whether they believe it or not. Kids ultimately, I suppose. Money, absolutely. The dreams the majority of us hold usually are tied to acquiring copious amounts of wealth, things, gadgets, cars, property, etc. This wasn't always so, it's actually pretty new.
It's important that people realize this, though. The hole that religion filled/fills in the minds/hearts of the public is now being filled by other things tied to capitalism/materialism at large. We don't see it, because just as a fish submerged in water, we do not know what it feels like not to be wet.
One thing is important: This current indirect worship (nobody goes to pray at the Sony store, but they sure spend a lot of time at the mall) of technology and materialism cannot fill any permanent voids in our lives. Our computers and cars won't sing our praises when we're gone, and if our kids are caught up in acquiring their own wealth and living for the present, neither will they. In the end we are (though I am atheist, I must use the term) spiritually bankrupting ourselves in the name of present gain. I just don't think it's worth it.
occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
Get one implanted in your left hand or in your neck or back of your head or something. Just avoid the right hand or forehead. Disaster averted!
Limbo (together with pergatory) however was never part of the bible, it was simply part of that pagan stuff that was folded in by the Roman church to allign it with other popular beliefs of the day, it is part of what protestant churches reject. The catholic church actually did the bible a service by getting rid of that dogma. I don't think you personally know what the bible says, how different churches interpret it. I think you should learn a little about theology and church history rather than a bunch of crazy conspiracy stories if you want to talk rationally about something.
I don't let my personal Atheism prejudice my study of faith, I don't see why you should either.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
When I was young back in the late 70s, there would circulate a story in the church that some old person received their social security checks mistakenly from the future. Usually the future date was the mid 80s and the check said "Not cashable without the mark of the beast" or some stupid thing.
To begin with, you Anonymous Coward, your use of the word CULT is meant in a sarcastic and demeaning way, and you're therefore attempting to label all religions as cultic in order to negate their value and relevance. You do this because you are attempting to pronounce your own personal beliefs and marginalize religion. I find it all too common now a days for atheists to take that superiorist attitude and look down upon us all too ignorant and feeble-minded idiots who believe in a higher order, a spiritual realm.
That said, and using Christianity as an example, I would like to point out that no Christian knows for sure when the events of the End Times will begin; not in march, not in 2012, and not in 2300. The Bible states that the rapture will come "like a thief in the night," and nobody knows the time of Christ's return. Many generations throughout history have thought the rapture will come during their lifetime, and of course, none have been correct.
I think why you have a lot of people saying the end times are near is because there are way too many conditions being set in place that coincide with Biblical and non-Biblical Prophecy. One prophet named St. Malachy wrote down in the 11th century his papal prophecies and stopped in detail with our current pope. He only vaguely mentions one more, peter of rome, who will be a martyr and the last elected pope. At least, until now, he has been eerily accurate, it will not take much more time to find out if he was correct. Benedict is pretty old and may not last too much longer.
The Non-Biblical prophecy of the Mayans says that the end of our current age will be around 2012, some scholars think that when you account for the inaccuracies of our calendar the Mayan 2012 might actually land on our 2006!
Even if you look at current events it seems like things are becoming more unstable and the United States is threatened by a looming great depression (reference: look up petroeuro). The dominance of the dollar is weakening and in order to maintain its dominance the Bush administration is trying to prolong the inevitable by resorting to war and aggression. There is no way a country can exist solely on a war economy, but that is what has been happening since WWII. The collapse of the American Empire will only lead to the rise of the European Union as the world's leading power and ultimately the much prophesized one-world-government. Of course, some of what I have just said is hearsay and speculation, but it is hard to deny that there are a lot of signs pointing to that outcome.
Now, once there is a Unified world government under the leadership of a single individual, he might prove to be malevolent and require the allegiance of all who serve him. The "Mark of the Beast" will be his way of purging those who might stand in his way and threaten his authority, we're talking about the Christians. His "Mark" will most likely be some sort of technology that can interface with computers, presumably this technology will contain the numbers "666" signifying the wearer's allegiance to this leader or even the leader's ownership over them. Those who refuse to wear the chip that, in some way, contain the number "666" will, at first, not be allowed to participate in normal commerce and functioning within mainstream society will be all but impossible. Then it will escalate and full scale persecution will commence on those who refuse the "Mark". You can almost look at it as a reverse of what happened during Nazi Germany and the Jews, the Jews were forced to wear the star of David as a way to set this minority apart from the rest of German society. The only difference is that this new designation system will be displayed in an opposite manner of the Nazi's system. Everyone has the choice to accept the mark, but those who choose not to are instead choosing martyrdom and sacrifice.
It is difficult for even the staunchest atheist to deny the possibility of a future like this.
I think it is way too easy for atheists to call names saying Christians are "cra
Many people fear the "end of times," "the mark of the beast," and all that.
Many catholics fear it as well, but what they do not realise is that the Catholic Church (by which i do not mean merely the RCC) pray for the return of Christ at every mass offered. This implies necessity of this "mark of the beast."
Regular people, many Christians, many Catholics hope to stave off the apocalypse by rejecting anything they construe as the mark of the beast. The first step in the sequence of all things apocalyptic. Yet the Catholic Church teaches that the the return of Christ (the apocalypse) FOLLOWS the mark of the beast. Additionally, the apocalypse is supposed to be a GOOD thing. Too many people are afraid of the wrong things.
You believe in the apocalypse? Fine. Welcome it. There is no reason to be afraid.
You don't believe in the apocalypse? Hey, your call.
Either way, there is no reason to live in fear.
Being raised a devout Catholic, I have to say this:
..) Followers unite into a "church" ..) This "church" becomes a major political party. ..) Church approves of and wages bloody wars on infidels [Inquisition] ..) Inner squabbling leads to three rulers claiming dominance [Papal Schism] ..) **** ..) Almost at world-wide domination in the 20th century!
For an outsider, most of the new testament looks like this to an outsider:
1) Man and woman engage in pre-maritial sex, woman gets pregnant. Father considers finding new woman to knock up...
2) Woman claims 'divine' miracle to escape village mockery. Villagers buy it?!?!
3) Child has some social/behavorial problems, reading too many religious texts at a young age, believing himself to be the next coming of god.
4) Child manages to recruit some poor uneducated fishermen into his self-made cult.
5) Unconscious man in comma mistakenly believed to be dead wakes up, miracle cited.
6) Drunk party-goers at a weddding ceremony mistake water for wine, miracle cited.
7) Child walks on a coral reef/sandbar, friends think he is walking on water.
8) Stories spread & distorted through "word of mouth", child becomes famous.
9) More followers join cult, start preaching about the demise of those who do not follow their teachings.
10) Government gets suspicious of this new "terrorist" group. Executes leader (child).
11) Followers go into hiding.
12) Many years later, they come up and spread the stories... Later write them into gospels.
13) Some of these followers are also imprisioned, appearing to be lunatics/terrorists...
14) ****
[The ordering of these is likely inaccurate, but the events are accurate]
Interestingly, I learned in a Catholic high school that the 4 Gospels were written ~50 years after Jesus **died**. How well could you write about something that happened 10 years ago?? How about something that happened 50 years ago? 50 years later, how many people are going to be alive to verify/contest your story???
This fact seems to be heavily obscured... And of course, the Testaments have undergone revisions since then. Also the 4 Gospels are basically the same in content, so three seemed to have mainly copied off the 1st, and just re-wording them for different audiences.
If Jesus were alive today, he would be ex-communicated by most/all Christian groups, deemed as an international terrorist, and executed... And none of this would make the news in the US...
I don't know that to think about Revelation. I do know that there are many practical guidelines for living life that people have mistakenly mis-understood to be divine regulations in the Bible.
In that context and given that 2000 years ago, countries were still collecting taxes and taking census of their people, my guess is that Revelation is a warning about what could happen in a tightly-run society that documents, measures and meters out every little thing. What would happen in a restaurent if you only gave them 90% of the amount on the bill...? Would they let you walk away? Would the manager get involved? In India today, they would thank you smilingly and you would leave. In the US, there would likely be consequences... Which is quite ironic!
And considering technological & political trends nowadays.... yes, we have much to be concerned about.
Marketing would be on Christian TV and radio stations, in the form of infomercials. "Quit your job now! Don't work again! Jesus is coming soon!", along with pictures of happy people with consumer goods. We considered finding some Christian figure to promote the product. Enough people were talking about the Rapture and the "Jubilee" back then that a modest market for the product clearly existed.
(For those of you interested in financial mechanics, the money for the mortgages would be obtained by creating a derivative security that could be resold in the secondary mortgage market. The "rapture" contingency would be taken care of by obtaining an insurance policy against the "rapture" for each mortgage (probably from Lloyds or Swiss Re), using exactly the same definition of "rapture" as in the loan. The combination of the insurance policy and the loan would constitute a resellable security without a "rapture" contingency that could be packaged up and sold in the mortgage-based security market. So we wouldn't have to finance the deal, just broker it.)
We didn't go through with it. It just seemed too evil.
Nevertheless, when there are people running around claiming that Jesus is coming back soon, it's quite feasible to make money taking the other side of that bet.
I was baptised Orthodox, and I can assure you that that's not true. It's considered by the Orthodox Church as part of the Canon, but is not read as part of Divine Liturgy. A PBS documentary once mistakenly claimed the Orthodox Church doesn't consider it part of the canon, and this mistake has been widely repeated ever since. Walk into any Orthodox church this morning, and have a look. Most English-speaking Orthodox churches use the Revised Standard Version with Apocrypha, which includes the book of Revelation.
There's an Orthodox monastery above the place on the Isle of Patmos in Greece where St. John the Divine received his Revelation, and the spot where St. John is said to have written it is a site of frequent Orthodox pilgrimage.
The Orthodox Church teaches that Revelations is a divinely inspired book, but should not be taken as a literal account of future events.
In fact, the Book of Revelations was a controversial addition to the early Bible, and several Bishops argued against including it in the canon due to the difficulty of interpreting it, and hence, its potential for abuse--particularly the type of abuse so typical of fundamentalists, who keep claiming that the end times are upon us. Other portions of the Bible specifically warn against doing this, because only God knows the time when the world will end.
Neither did Martin Luther:
Luther didn't think that the Catholic Church was infallible in determining canonicity, and rejected Revelations, and the Epistles of James (he called it an "epistle of straw"), Jude and Hebrews. Yet the Protestantism that he was instrumental in founding still fiercely defends the Catholic/Orthodox Canon of the Bible, including the Book of Revelation. On the other hand, they reject the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches' teachings on it, and on much else besides.I haven't entirely worked my own beliefs yet, but this contradiction never made any sense to me.