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TiVo to Drop Lifetime Service Plan
Thomas Hawk writes "TiVo held their most recent analyst conference call today and on the call announced that they will be dropping their lifetime subscription option as well as offering three new monthly no upfront fee TiVo plans combining their box and service for one year, two year and three year commitments. Additionally they announced that their highly anticipated Series 3 HDTV standalone model with CableCARD support will not be available until after "mid year," a new retail partnership with Radio Shack and the fact that the company is in solid discussions with other cable operators for deals similar to their previously announced Comcast initiative."
Now that they're cutting back on services and making it more difficult to avoid commercials, surely there must be a better service out there...
Is there?
MythTV (www.mythtv.org) is looking better and better.
Oh dear. I love my (series 1 UK) Tivo but I knew they'd been struggling. Didn't realise it was this bad.
If TiVo doesn't offer lifetife subscriptions anymore, then it might just suggest that they won't be around for anyone's lifetime. The fact that they are partnering up with a retail chain on its last legs, RadioShack, doesn't bode well for its future. It's a pity to see such an inventive company put its survival into doubt.
Still, the lack of the new model until mid-year doesn't bother me much. Existing models already due everything a user could want, the Series 2 records your shows. For 40 hours. What more could you want? Although there have been some issues with build quality (see some of the reviews on the Amazon listing) that hopefully will be fixed in the next generation.
"Web domains in Kibonia (.KB) are available for only fifteen schwas a year. They can be reserved forever, provided that payment of fifteen schwas per year is received in advance."
The more I read about the emasculation of various service plans and firmware pieces in the PVR space, the more my lifetime subscription to SonicBlue and my commercial-crushing early-model RTV4504 begin to look like Sacred Lost Crystal Technology from Ancient Atlantis.
Eventually something will break that I can't fix, or some double-A agency will wise up to the fact that I haven't seen a spot break in seven or eight years, and I'll have to bite the MythTV bullet, but until then, *I* control the Vertical and the Horizontal...
Do you know what a TiVo even does? It's a device that records your preferred television programming for later use so that you can watch after you are finished socializing, going outside, etc.
they will be dropping their lifetime subscription option
Will they just stop offering it and honor existing owners, or do they plan to force everyone to downgrade to a monthly subscription model? And does this include their free "basic" service?
If the latter, and it includes their free basic service, they can expect one hell of a class-action from folks like me who bought an OEM TiVo box (as opposed to rolling their own Myth box) only because of the free lifetime basic service.
Heh... From the article, "According to Rogers, with TiVo's higher monthly fees and one year lock in they have increased the lifetime value of a TiVo customer by over $100."
Do they really want to say things like that in public? It might sound optimistic and fluffy, but just means "we will milk an extra hundred bucks from suckers who use TiVo every 2-3 years". Not the best PR material...
Well... at least I'll get a hell of a lot of money for my TiVo with lifetime sub on ebay.
Remember lifetime sub was for the lifetime of the unit, not your lifetime.
Also. The only thing that has changed is that they have dropped Lifetime subs and added more subscription options.
You'll still be able to go to a store and buy a unit, and get a service only subsription for $12 and change. You'll also be able to buy a second service only subscription and get the multi-service discount of $6 and change on the additional units.
The change is that if you don't want to eat the cost of a unit upfront, there are news subscription options where the cost is amortized for a couple of years.
Imagine what the world would be like if everyone on this planet could not watch TV/movies/internet for a year.
Well, for one thing, it would mean I would go for 12 months without having to be exposed to snide, supercilious and off-topic holier-than-thou commentary like yours on topics you clearly do not understand.
Where do I sign up?
People would be bored? They'd get their deck of cards and play solitaire? They'd become asses who go around criticizing other people's entertainment choices?
Everytime there's a TV related story, people like you feel the need to say how much better off we would all be if we didn't watch TV. People who watch TV almost exclusively as their entertainment wouldn't suddenly want to become productive if they didn't have TV. They'd find something else equally unproductive.
There may be other options out there for entertainment, but we're not talking about them, are we? We're talking about TiVO dropping their lifetime subscription.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
TiVo is actually very smart to offer the new "no money down" plans - that's the #1 complaint I hear from people as to why they don't buy a TiVo; many people do not like buying a product and THEN paying a monthly fee. Conversely, most people thought the idea of paying an additional $300 for something, even if it meant no monthly fees ever, was ridiculous as well - they just couldn't wrap their heads around it.
TiVo does exactly what I need it to do, which is why I have one. PC-based soloutions are at best clunky, and I have an elegant little box in my living room that does it all for me. I transfer shows back and forth from my TiVo to my PC when I want to archive them, and burn them to DVD when I wish.
The biggest complaint about SD TiVo's is that you can't record two programs at once; that's why many people have two TiVo's. Personally, I live very well with that limitation - there is only so much TV one can watch in a day, week, or lifetime and having to make some choices keeps me from getting OD'd on too much unlimited choice. Sure, choice is almost 100% better in any instance, but here I actually like that I personally have to make a choice between some programs (and the DVD recorder is always there if I really, really have a conflict).
DVR's so completely change how you think about your time, especially in relation to TV (obviously) - but I've used some of the "other" ones and nothing does it for me like a TiVo. Simple, elegant, and it does everything I want. I'm also a monthly subscriber, like the vast majority of TiVo owners, so the removal of the program isn't even going to be a blip on most of our radars.
Boy if a partnership with "You've got question, we got blank stares" formerly run by someone who lied about his degree doesn't get the investors excited, I don't know what will!
EvilCON - Made Famous by
I own one Series 1 that I bought back in 2000 and two Series 2 that I bought back in 2002. I knew that I would be using these products for a long time in the future, so I naturally purchased a lifetime subscription plan. In light of this news, I will not purchase another unit, even the admittedly attractive Series 3. If I purchase hardware, it will have a fixed cost, and it will be fully functional until it dies of old age. If I cannot do that, I will "rent".
This decision represents TiVo walking off the cliff. Time Warner is happy to rent its customers a HD DVR for no upfront cost and $8/mo. TiVo would have me purchase the hardware and provide them with an infinite income stream at $13/mo, or in its new plan, effectively rent the hardware for at least $17/mo with a three year commitment.
I'm sorry, but no user interface is worth a three year contract at twice the price. TiVo just lost a repeat customer.
While it doesn't look like a good sign that they are dropping lifetime for Series 2, it's not yet ruled out for the next generation. Here's hoping...
Here is a transcript of the full conference call and a quick take of the two most important minutes of that call that relate to the new pricing strategy.
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
I avoided TiVo and Replay due to their subscription requirements and high prices.
Do the newer PVRs with timeshift and DTV supports and without service subscription requirement (e.g., don't need the fancy TV guides, recommendations for other shows, voting, etc.) exist? I do not subscribe to satellite and cable TV services (I am a cheap punk, and I don't watch that many TV shows and movies) since I watch through broadcasts. I know DVD recorders exist, but they are quite limited in how much recordings especially with those HDTV (e.g., 1080i). Plus, they are expensive the last time I checked.
Currently, I use an old fashion VCR (record analog TV shows that don't require high quality picture and audio) and a computer with a HDTV tuner PCI card (acts like a PVR, but it is buggy, unstable, and not reliable like a VCR or a standalone hardware-based PVR; also don't like leaving computers on at home). I would love to replace my VCR before February 2009 before digital TV is enforced in USA.
Are there any types of hardware PVRs out there in local retail stores? I live in Los Angeles, CA, USA area. I would love to get a cheap hardware based PVR (no computers) that is like a digital VCR that can handle high quality recordings and playbacks and use over the air (OTA) broadcasts.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Then later in the Q&A portion:
So it sounds like lifetime for current models could possibly continue to be available at retail (though I can't say I've heard of a retail outlet offering a lifetime priced bundle), and the next gen HD is still yet to be determined.
I am not trying to tell people to not watch TV, in fact I watch TV.
I just wonder what people (slashdot readers specifically) would think would happen if everyone could not watch TV/movies/internet for a year. I am not trying to tell you what to do in your free time. Please, watch TV, movies, use the internet, play music, whatever tickles your fancy - its your life. I just wanted to know what people thought. Mod me off-topic I guess.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Not horse pucky. Of course I include the cost of the PC - I'm not using my MythTV box to do anything other than hook up to the television. Sure, I'm doing more than a TiVo can do, but it's still not my general-purpose computer. You can't remove the cost of all the hardware you need.
You are right, though - a machine comparable to a TiVo can be built for money comparable to what you'd spend on a TiVo. I don't know too many folks who build MythTV machines that are comparable to a TiVo though. The 80 gigabyte harddrive is never enough, the single tuner is rather paltry, etc. So, I suppose I should have been more clear - most MythTV users will spend more on their machine than if they bought a TiVo, but they also have about five times the capacity and much more expandability and more features and no DRM. Better?
Illegitimi non carborundum
Tivo, NetFlix, Phone, music, TV (cable or satellite), Internet access, paper (magazines / newspaper), ink for printers...
What is the next subscription model for a service I've gotta have? And when am I going to notice that the cumulative effect is keeping me from saving enough money for the kids college or my retirement?
I did lifetime "memberships" for Tivo Series 1 and 2. Both are still running strong. I like new gear, but I'm not constantly replacing stuff "that just works" in order to satisfy "my geek." The idea that I'll do a hardware refresh in three years so there's no diff between subscription and one time payments doesn't work for me.
At some point, there's got to be some backlash against subscription services.
It's hard enough to get people to stop using their VCR's. You think there would be enough people using MythTV and such to make a dent in Tivo's base?
Proud member of the American Non Sequitur Society. We might not make much sense, but boy do we love pizza!
The first Tivo I used was bought with a lifetime subscription in 1999, one of the original Philips models. It's since needed a replacement hard drive (at which point the original owner gave the box to me and upgraded to a newer model), and the modem port blew up (switched to the serial port and ultimately a TivoNet card); with those repairs it's still running fine. As of right now that puts this one at around $2.75/month for its lifetime.
The payback period for the lifetime subscription has been between 2 and 3 years of product use, well within the expected lifetime of the box. Even in the rare case where the Tivo fails before then, it usually adds something to the salvage value of the unit if sold on ebay. As such, I have advised everyone who purchases a Tivo that they should consider the lifetime subscription part of the purchase price of the unit, and to look at it as a 3 year purchase--after which they would normally expect another couple of years worth of free service before the hard drive fails and they need to spend more money.
Now I'm going to have to tell them something else altogether, as Tivo has just priced itself out of the market. Looks like it's time to get familiar with my local cable provider's DVR box.
TiVo is in a lot of financial trouble, looking at its key statistics: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=TIVO
The company has negative earnings per share and its profit margin is almost -25%! Almost 15% of the companies shares on the market are shorted. Thats crazy!
I think that dropping the Lifetime Service Plan is a desperate gimmick to get more revenue. It might work, but who knows.
However, I don't think computer based PVRs are going to make a dent in the market...they are too complicated. Adding a card into a computer is too complicated for Joe Schmo. Watching TV on a computer screen is an alien concept to most people. A friend who was over last night thought that watching TV on my PVR-350 was 'interesting'. "You do realize that this is really weird, right?" she said, "I'm not sure if I really liked the experience." But the idea of not having a monthly fee for TiVo intreaged her.
But...I think that computer based PVRs will make a huge dent in the tech savvy market...because it is flexable...and for now...DRM free.
Although people keep bringing up the loss of DirecTV over and over and over and over again, personally I do not think that this is as great of an issue as people make it out to be.
...
TiVo makes far more money on their standalone boxes than the pittance that they receive on their DirecTV boxes. The reduction in DirecTV business is perhaps one of the most overhyped stories out there on TiVo today.
It may be overhyped from the business side, but there are a lot of customers who really love our DirecTiVo units, and it *is* a big deal to us.
In fact, if some of DirecTV's customers have such bad experiences with DirecTV's generic PVRs it would not surprise me to see these same people buy Series 3 standalone TiVo's due out later this year
Sorry, no. DirecTiVo is both cheaper than stand-alone and better quality, due to the lack of the superfluous digital-to-analog-to-digital conversions. I might be willing to pay an extra $10/month to keep the TiVo interface over DirecTV's new one, but I will always take a DVR that's integrated with satellite or digital cable over a stand-alone.
What I do think might be more of a draw to the DirecTiVo people is the Comcast DVRs with TiVo software that's supposed to come out later this year. As for me, though, I just got an R10 DirecTivo from Weaknees (215 hours!) while I still could, and I expect to use it for the next several years.
If I purchase a new TiVo under the old pricing plan and keep it for four years and it is working at the end of that time I would end up paying about...
/w $50 resell
80 hours S2 TiVo: $250
Lifetime sub: $300
Resale value at EOL including sub: $(300)
TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP: $250 or $5.21/month
Even at three years you end up with a total cost of only $6.94/month.
Under the new plans you end up with a total cost of
$469 (pre-pay for 3 years) = 11.64/month if you stop at 3 years
$203 (16.95 * 12 months - see note below)
$(50) Resale value - best guess
TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP: $622 or $12.96/month
IMO, this just sucks for the average TiVo owner who can afford the upfront costs of the box + lifetime service.
NOTE: This is my best guess about the cost of the sub. after your 'contract' period is up. Could be less or more.
All this weeping and gnashing of teeth about Tivo reducing functionality...I haven't noticed any of it. I use it for basic functions...I setup season passes, it records everything I tell it too, nearly flawlessly, and I can skip commercials. I tried the PC based solution, and it was just too much hassle. Bizzare unsolvable video/audio synch issues, keeping the tv schedule/guide stuff uptodate and trouble free...driver conflicts, manual software updates...I might have saved some cash, but the amount of my very valuable time wasted trying to get it to work made it useless in my opinion. Alot of us here are geeks, and I work all day solving technology based problems...when i get home and want to relax and veg on the couch for a bit, the last thing I want to do is figure out why something I wanted recorded isn't there or is borked up. I love Tivo, because its easy to use and reliable.