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Why Terror Financing is So Tough to Track Down

An anonymous reader writes "After a recent Slashdot story detailing the errant investigation into a credit card holder's dept payment, comes this article from the Christian Science Monitor discussing the commoditization of terrorism, its relationship to crime, and the difficulties encountered when trying to track "bad" money."

12 of 578 comments (clear)

  1. Stupid Terrorists. by Eightyford · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If news lately is to be believed then there are thousands of terrorists running around. Rarely are building blown up, or water supplies poisoned. This has led me to the conclusion that either the government is fear mongering or the terroists are really stupid. Really, how hard is it to blow up a building?

  2. Power Of Nightmares by drgonzo59 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    A couple of days I watched the "Power of Nightmares" -- a British documentary. It talks about how both Islamic extremism and neo-conservatism both have a lot in common, especially in the fact that both have this absolutist, idealized view of the world. For ones like Osama, Islam is the answer to all, and the justification of all means, and for Bush, Cheney, Wolfowits and "gang" it is the "American Way" that has to be imposed over all countries. US is seen as the incarnation of pure good and its destiny is to fight and conquer evil. Anyway, another point of the movie is that al Qaeda doesn't really exist in the way we think it exists, there are no organized sleeper cells, Osama didn't even use the name until after 9/11 the Americans gave it to his organisation. The al Qaeda global super organization myth is actually serving the neo-conservatives in this country. Anyway, if you have time, watch the film: free on archive.org. It is about 3 hours long. It is very well done, not as heavy propaganda laden as the Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, which I thought was as good of a documentary as "Mars Attacks".

    Check out the Wiki page on it too...

    1. Re:Power Of Nightmares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'd just point out that the documentary says that the name "Al Qaeda" was termed during the investigation of the first World Trade Center attack in 1993, not after 9/11. However, it does say that the term was first coined in America and was later adopted by Bin Laden to describe his group.

      It also goes on to say that, for example, Bin Laden had to hire stand-ins to represent his personal guard on camera, since there were so few people actually allying with him. The documentary goes on to compare our fear of terrorism to the fear of the USSR in the cold war - showing, for example, a completely nondescript sattelite photo of a Russian city and an American saying "there are weapons here so insidious that our cameras can't even detect them." It gives pretty good insight into the history of the players in this conflict, and how this war is similar to the things that have happened in the past. Definitely worth a watch.

  3. The latter... by drgonzo59 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I already mentioned this in a post above, but I'll say it again. Watch the Power Of Nightmares movie. It is a 3 hour British documentary. Very well done. Get it at archive.org, just search for it, it is also probably in the "top 3 dowloaded" box.

    It turns out that "fear mongering" is what the neo-conservatives now in power in Washington DC need to do what they do. The most interesting conclusion of the film is that al Qaeda isn't this all global organization with thousands of sleeper cells ready to commit attrocities. That is what people like Bush, Cheney and Wolfowitz want us to believe. To find out why, whatch the move...

  4. Re:But at the same time... by cimmer · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Actually, the Christian Science viewpoint (having been raised in a CS household without having chosen to subscribe myself in my adult years) is that God and sprituality must operate by a set of governing laws as measurable and static as any set of scientific principles. IE, God isn't a magical being with a beard/4 arms/turban and a mysterious agenda, but a "greater" entity bound by the laws of the universe/creation/reality/[insert definition for everything here].

    Interestingly, some CS'ers claim that Einstein did some hanging around CS reading rooms later in his life. I have to think that if this is true, the inability to describe matter as anything other than energy-equivalent in increasingly shrinking component pieces played into an interest in the CS theory that matter is an illusion (hence the occasional wack job offing their kid with a bedroom seance instead of antibiotics). http://www.christianscience.org/Einstein.htm

    As a side note, Jill Carroll, whose abduction in Iraq has caused a bit of a ruckus for a few weeks now, was a freelance write for the CS Monitor. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1666314&page=1

  5. Re:There are other reasons too... by killjoe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "(I see this line of reasoning all the time, exempli gratia, at the pharmacy at which I work, when people don't understand why the federal government won't somehow make their drug copayments go away.)"

    I think you misunderstand their complaint. Their complaint is basically "what the fuck happened to all those taxes I paid, how come people in Turkey and Greece get free drugs and I can't. Why doesn't a person in Australia or New Zealand have to worry about going bankrupt because they broke a hip and I do?".

    They are right of course. Other much poorer countries manage to provide basic health care for their citizens (even if it's not ideal) and we still don't.

    As for the hurricane NO was a special case. The levies broke (like they were predicted to). If Bush was awake during the meeting when he was told they could break better plans could have been made. Of course if he hadn't lied afterwards and told people "nobody could have predicted this" people wouldn't blame him so much.

    --
    evil is as evil does
  6. Re:There are other reasons too... by natmsincome.com · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The other reason is that our leaders who might themselves be inept, think that the way America works is the way other societies work and think. In areas where terror is cultivated, folks are willing to do stuff for free...all in the hope that some divine power will reward them sometime in future.

    You just don't get it do you? Most of the time people don't do things for religion. Generally religion is used as a scapegoat, excuse, reason etc. The only people that can be controlled by religion are the same people that can be controlled by anyone with charisma.

    Most acts of violence (terrorism is defined by those in power) are driven by fear, anger power and greed. The people at the top are generally driven by power and greed whereas the people at the bottom are generally driven by fear and anger. They are people just like you and me that have been driven into situations where they feel that their acts are their only way out.

    I read an article from a Russian journalist that summed it really well:

    Just after Russia conquered Afghanistan this journalist visited a major military base that they'd taken over by bombing it. The major military based ended up being a civilian village. As the journalist entered the village he saw a father holding his daughter that had been killed in the bombing. As they drove past the father looked up with hate in his eyes at the truck. At this moment he said he knew they wouldn't be able to hold Afghanistan. He said he realised that they people had nothing. This father who may have previously been a supported of the Russians was now there number one enemy and would do anything to get revenge. He had nothing and the only thing he had (family) was now taken away. Every time Russia had a victory they'd create more soldiers with nothing to live for. In the end Russia pulled out because they weren't able to hold it.

    If Fiji (crazy example on purpose) bombed America and took it over in a couple of days and decimated America's defences so they'd never be able to regain control. How many people could honestly say they'd just sit around and be peaceful? How many people would rally around anyone and anything to try and get justice even if it involved violence?

    People always try to demonise terrorist and distance themselves as much as possible even though we'd often act in a similar way if the roles were reverse.

    It's always a choice and I hope that if I was put in that situation I'd act differently but to be honest I don't know what I'd do if family was killed infront of my eyes. I don't think I'd be as honourable as I like to imagine I would be.

  7. Yes! New Orleans == Rural Mississippi! by copponex · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Fantastic! I had no idea that New Orleans had the same population density, flood probability, and problem of a massive amount of people who didn't own a car. If you've ever lived on a coast, you know that half the time it never hits where they say it will, and some people even evacuate in the wrong direction, heading towards the storm (especially in Florida). The white elephant is, of course, that most of the deaths weren't people who drowned - they died of natural causes exacerbated by the fact that our Federal Government, with BILLIONS of dollars at their immediate and easily accessible disposal, completely failed them. There are still hundreds of empty beds at FEMA camps all across the region, due to poor management and poor planning. And there's no excuse for "confusion of responsibility:"

    "DISASTER. It strikes anytime, anywhere. It takes many forms -- a hurricane, an earthquake, a tornado, a flood, a fire or a hazardous spill, an act of nature or an act of terrorism. It builds over days or weeks, or hits suddenly, without warning. Every year, millions of Americans face disaster, and its terrifying consequences.

    On March 1, 2003, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS). FEMA's continuing mission within the new department is to lead the effort to prepare the nation for all hazards and effectively manage federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates proactive mitigation activities, trains first responders, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration."


    Now the current (and previous) administration has missed the clues and failed to prepare for:
    Terrorism and 9/11
    The Iraq War
    Katrina

    As Senator Kucinich said, I think we see a pattern here. But the problem is not Republican or Democrat - it's that our government is fundamentally broken. I'm voting straight down the line this year - voting out every single incumbant, regardless of how much I hate the alternative.

  8. Re:There are other reasons too... by pimpimpim · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Furthermore, the most recent london attacks just costed a few hunderd pound. With such low amounts of money needed, tracking is completely impossible. This BBC article is an interesting read in the current discussion btw, worth your time.

    --
    molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
  9. Re:There are other reasons too... by Idarubicin · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Sorry I don't believe you. Living standards in western countries are now much higher than they were (say) 50 years ago.

    And we're sorry you don't understand the statistics to which you allude.

    The average person in the United States earns more and has greater purchasing power than he or she did fifty years ago. That doesn't tell you anything about the distribution of incomes across the population, nor does it address specifically the people of New Orleans.

    In the 2000 census, Louisiana ranked 47th of 50 states in per capita income (2000 census). New Orleans has the lowest median household income of any metropolitan area with a population greater than 1,000,000 (1999 figures).

    Looking at trends in the Gini coefficient for the United States shows a steady increase over the last thirty years, indicating a continuing drift of the Lorenz curve away from a uniform distribution of income. In other words, the rich--and even the upper middle class--have gotten richer, but the poor have gotten relatively poorer by a fair margin.

    The fact that standards of living are quite high and poverty quite low in San Franciso, or Boston, or Hartford doesn't address the situation in New Orleans.

    --
    ~Idarubicin
  10. Re:There are other reasons too... by xtracto · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sorry I don't believe you. Living standards in western countries are now much higher than they were (say) 50 years ago.

    I think you did not understand parent. Although the "living standard" in western countries are higher the gap between the rich and poor is growing bigger and bigger.

    It is like my statistics professor told me, the mean (average) is the least informative of all the statistical equations, you can have two sets {$10,$10,$0,$0} and ($5,$5,$5,$5} and they will give you the same average. Guess which one of those groups of people are better.

    As I saw it from outside (I am from Mexico but was in UK when it happened) it seemed that Katrina came to show the extreme poverty that exists in the USA (the $0 in the sets). Those are the people that won't move from their homes, as it is the only thing they have. I know that because I lived in Campeche, which is a city that is struck by hurricanes quite often (Gilbert, Isadore, etc) and there are plenty of very poor people over there. People that has only their houses and what is inside them. When a hurrican comes they fear that, if they leave they will lose everything they have.

    --
    Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  11. Re:There are other reasons too... by glesga_kiss · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Not just European help, people from other parts of the US were prevented from helping. You even got the situation of doctors being prevented from treating people whilst their papers were checked.

    That's more a sign of the times really. A doctor now has to think twice about helping after an accident: the victim might one day sue. Another example of this sort of thing is lost children; if I see a lost child I am staying the hell away and not helping them. Previously, I'd speak to them and try to find a cop or store clerk that could help. Now I'm just frightened of being accused of being a pervert or child abductor. Your lost children are on their own, it's just not worth the risk to help them anymore.