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Bill Could Restrict Freedom of the Press
WerewolfOfVulcan writes "The Washington Post is carrying an article about a disturbing Senate bill that could make it illegal to publicly disclose even the existence of US domestic spying programs (i.e. NSA wiretaps)." An aide to the bill's author assures us it's not aimed at reporters, but the language is ambiguous at best. From the article: "Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies, said the measure is broader than any existing laws. She said, for example, the language does not specify that the information has to be harmful to national security or classified. 'The bill would make it a crime to tell the American people that the president is breaking the law, and the bill could make it a crime for the newspapers to publish that fact,' said Martin, a civil liberties advocate."
Welcome to the Soviet States of America! All your free speech are belong to us!
Your's kindly,
George W. Bush
While not perfect, the media is a crucial factor in the check and balances system. Once the media is supressed, branches of the government have free reign. -- Jim http://www.runfatboy.net/
An aide to the bill's author assures us it's not aimed at reporters
And the patriot act wasn't aimed at drug enforcement, but that certainly didn't stop it for being used for exactly that purpose.
...that makes it illegal to make bills like this illegal one because they are trying to legalize the concealment of illegal activities.
Orwell, eat your heart out!
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
Or they could arrest people, hold them in jail for a while, charge them, and then before the courts can make a decision, drop charges and let them go with stern warnings.
That way, the courts don't get a chance to shut them down since they have to have a real dispute, but the administration can use it to silence opponents.
No, just a facist takeover through a manipulated electoralprocess
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Citizen: There is no need to exercise your 2nd amendment rights!
Just like with your 2nd amendment rights...you may now exercise your 1st amendment right to free speech after the requisite 3-day waiting period from the day you file your application to speak freely.
Don't forget to bring a valid national identification card. Your application for free speech will not be processed without valid ID.
We just want to make sure you have a reasonable cooling off period and won't say anything dangerous to society. We'd also like to make sure that you've had no prior convictions related to saying anything dangerous before granting you permission to speak freely.
We have preserved your rights. Now move along before I arrest you.
Even if Media is excluded from the language of the bill, it will still have negative consequences. Primarily, I wonder how it could not stiffle or discourage whistle blowing, if said whistleblower feared running afowl of this new law. Leaks are often bad, but they are often important---otherwise the public would have no knowledge of bad policy. I would doubt, with all the trouble the patriot act had passing, that this would pass as well. Unfortunately, though, the past 20 years we've relied more and more on the courts to protect our freedoms. I wish it didn't come to that, because sometimes they mess up too (imminent domain anyone?
Or they could arrest people, hold them in jail for a while, charge them, and then before the courts can make a decision, drop charges and let them go with stern warnings. That way, the courts don't get a chance to shut them down since they have to have a real dispute, but the administration can use it to silence opponents.
Note to self: never vote for this guy.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
"i.e." stands for "id est" and means "that is [to say]".
"e.g." stands for "exempli gratia" and means "for example".
The article summary should have used e.g. instead of i.e. I see this mistake all the time and it irritates me.
What always shocks me about Americans is that they think that all their problems will be solved by voting for the other party next time. When are you people going to realize that both parties are playing for the same team?
For those who don't believe me, I want you to try something for me. Wait until the Democrats get into power and for the post-election BS to wear off. I'll bet you a soda that they'll be pushing the same sorts of laws for the same sorts of reasons.
An aide to the bill's author assures us it's not aimed at reporters
And the Patriot Act is only used against terrorists.
The president shouldn't have anything to worry about if he's innocent, so there's no need for this law.
So either the "innocent people have nothing to fear" argument is flawed for the surveillance program, or the US president is far from innocent...
Come to think of it, outsourcing a government to India is not such a bad idea.
Signature has left the building.
It is convenient for people to have you think that the press is free, because it is convenient for you to be suitably mislead.
The press is being lead around by the nose. Remember folks that these days the press (and other reporting media) are not primary there to bring you the truth. They are there to provide infotainment to piull in the advertising revenue etc. Need nice snappy "news" to compete against all those other things trying to get a slice of your time. So what happens? Reporters that don't play the game soon get blacklisted. Nothing openly stated. Just a few extra minutes delay in returning your call (so your story gets scooped) or instead of being embedded with frontline troops giving scenic footage of night rocket attacks you get embedded in the crew washing trucks down at the transport park (makes for real high viewer rating footage!).
Engineering is the art of compromise.
> So what is all this "Land of the free" I keep hearing about?
Not true anymore. If it ever was. See McCarthyism or other examples from the history of civil rights in the US.
I think that the verse continues as "Home of the Brave".
Not true either. See how squeamish the US people get when soldiers die in wars and occupations that their elected government chose to enter.
Here's a hit from the big clue stick:
If you don't like the government that you have then don't re-elect it!
And I'm not just talking about the president that you have over there.
I'm talking about all of the elected officials.
I must say things are not any better here in Finland.
Our former Prime Minister resigned because she leaked confidential information during her election campaign.
She was elected anyway to the European parliament after her resignation.
People should realise the power that they have and make responsible decisions when voting.
Then... 2004. Having been lumbered with that idiot for a president, with his cabal of fascist hangers-on pulling the strings, and having seen the horrors they perpetrated together on America, and on America's global standing, and on the world in general, what did the American people do?
They voted him in. For real this time. No question about it, Bush won that election. They looked at the record of Bush's first term and said 'Yes. This is what we want from our Presidents. We like Bush and approve of what he has done, and want four more years of the same.'
At which point you can't blame a corrupt fascist takeover. The fascists sneaked into office via a very dodgy election, but you had the chance to get them out. But you endorsed them and voted them in again with an authentic mandate.
It's your own stupid fault now. And the world knows it. What America does now, the ordinary American people can be directly and personally blamed for.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Wait a minute...
We're being invaded? If so, where are the front lines? I'll be going there right after I go to the gun store to arm myself. Surely there are volunteer units being formed, and they may not have enough extra guns/ammo for everyone.
What's that you say? The front lines are in another country? And it doesn't border us, nor does it have the capability to project an invasion force (or, indeed, any military force at all) to this side of the world? And we already destroyed its military anyway? So, all these threats to our nation are of a criminal rather than a military nature?
Huh. When you said that the President has special powers in time of invasion, I thought you mean when we're being invaded, or at least when an enemy of ours is doing some kind of invading. I had no idea that this applies when our side is the only one invading other countries. How strange.
civilian = not in army. includes terrorists.
if the US were invaded, the civilians fighting against the occupiers would be terrorists. they would organise and form networks, if that's your distinguishing point.
causing pain is always wrong.
Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14-defining characteristics common to each:
"1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are mani
>Most of the people causing the trouble down there are trained terrorists,
Actually most of the people causing trouble are ex-military, disenfranchised civilians and those who have lost out on the regime change to the point where it is better to fight. TBH actual terrorists like AQ would make a small percentage of that.
>The civilians are the ones getting stuffed by a war they didn't want
http://www.harpers.org/BaghdadYearZero.html
Its a good read. Would like to see an update on it though.
You have obviously never been to a "free speech zone" in the US then or tried to protest outside of this zone, or just walk in the general area of said zone and not have any ID on you but be profiled as a trouble maker.
I'd rather have a few sunk ships than restrictions placed on my freedom...
It's not a "lesser of two evils" issue, because any evil is too much. It's a "Freedom is good, this bill is evil" issue.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Which would propably be a good thing for everyone, even the US. It would make the US stop being a target for terrorism, letting you put your economy and society onto healthier ground than the current debt-taking production-outsourcing trend with constant warmongering thrown in for bad measure. But there's likely to be a lot of grief when the house of cards crashes.
A situation where a single power completely dominates the whole world is simply unmaintainable. The question is not if the US empire will come down, but how bad the collapse will be. You better hope that you get a smart president next, someone who dismantles it peacefully, before it will collapse violently. A peacefull dismantling, if combined with a sharp reduction in military budget and a large upscaling of social services, still lets you keep a good standard of living, while a violent collapse resulting from the foreign money lenders refusing to give you anymore, or all the places you've outsourced production to from nationalizing the production plants to reap the rewards themselves, or the countries currently engaged in "free trade" with you simply realizing that it is in their best interest to quit those deals and protect their domestic production with tariffs, resulting in sharp decrease in your ability to export your products, will result in complete economic chaos in the US, whose economy is heavily in debt to begin with.
Basically, you are not going to stay a superpower for long anymore, you just don't have the resources to continue dominating the world. Better abdicate peacefully and keep some of your power and riches than being thrown out by force and facing the guillotine.
Not trying to troll or bash the US, just pointing out what I think is the truth. Every empire in the history has fallen eventually, US is no different. I simply think that the fall will happen pretty soon, since the US economy is based on taking debt and is already heavily indebted, and its military hasn't managed to pacify Iraq and doesn't seem able to, in the near future, putting that much more strain to the economy. Add heavy corruption in both government and major corporations, and you have a pretty nasty mess brewing.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.