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Reflections on the Holy Trinity

1up has a piece looking at gaming's future by reflecting on gaming's past. What do the launches of older systems teach us to expect from the PS3's ... eventual debut. From the article: "Shouts of 'Dreamcast' ... fall a little flat when you consider that Dreamcast was more of a last-ditch attempt from a company that hadn't turned a profit in 10 years. Microsoft isn't bowing out anytime soon, which means that being out in front will probably be an advantage -- by the time Sony launches, the 360 will be over the launch hiccups and rolling with a steady stream of new software. On the other hand, if Blu-ray is as big for the PS3 as DVD was for the PS2, Microsoft could find itself technologically inferior -- a direct consequence of its rush to market. "

21 of 139 comments (clear)

  1. I don't care... by Sensible+Clod · · Score: 2, Insightful

    what anybody says, last-ditch or whatever, the Dreamcast is still comparable with almost anything on the market today, purely from a technological (read: graphics quality) standpoint.

    --

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    1. Re:I don't care... by kannibal_klown · · Score: 2, Interesting
      what anybody says, last-ditch or whatever, the Dreamcast is still comparable with almost anything on the market today, purely from a technological (read: graphics quality) standpoint.

      Don't get me wrong. The Dreamcast look beautiful. I still play some games on it today: Crazy Taxi, Soul Calibur, Sonic, etc. And I maintain it still looks better than the PS2.

      However, it's falls slightly behind XBox and GameCube as far as graphics go. It's not way behind, but still not up to their looks/performance.

      And the 360? Sorry to break it to you, but no. I will never buy a 360 but even I have to admit the 360 has superior graphics.

      It's a shame it died. I still love that system.
    2. Re:I don't care... by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Gamecube is clearly superior, the Dreamcast ports it got (and there were many during the second year or so) were usually enhanced quite a bit and still nowhere near the GC native games in graphical quality.

      --
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    3. Re:I don't care... by tedgyz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      what anybody says, last-ditch or whatever, the Dreamcast is still comparable with almost anything on the market today, purely from a technological (read: graphics quality) standpoint.

      Reminds me of the Amiga. Technically superior in almost every way to it's peers, but poorly handled by the owning company.

      I wasted nearly 10 years of my life being an Amiga bigot. Then I realized the thing that matters more is availability and cost of software. I jumped to the Wintel platform in '97 and haven't looked back. I would rather suffer the weaknesses of the most popular platform than suffer the isolation of a minority platform. Oh, and all you Apple bigots that want to reply - I'm not listening. La la la la la.

      Interestingly, I learned this lesson at my day job. I was working for the HP Unix Workstation division (previously Apollo Computer). We had a huge launch where we blew away the competition in raw CPU performance. In the end, it had little effect on market share. Sun learned early on to woo the developers with cheap workstations that drove sales of big iron to support the software they built.

      It is this same logic the compells me to drive GM cars/trucks. Parts and repairs are cheaper.

      --
      "No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
  2. Play Station by tepples · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does the history of the Play(space)Station make Nintendo the father and Sony the son?

    Three buttons on the PlayStation controller are X, Square (a box), and Circle (which has 360 degrees). X, Box, 360. So do we have a holy ghost?

  3. Let's take a hint from the financial world by aralin · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This reminds me of the quote I keep reading in all fine print for every mutual fund: "Past results are no guarantee of future performance".

    While it is true that history tends to repeat itself, every time when someone tries to divine the future from the past they make the same fatal mistake that makes their predictions totally useless. They simply take into account too short section of the past, quite often only few years, instead of few centuries and their predictions are directed on a too close future, often few months or years rather than decades. Anyway, I don't think this trend is going to stop anytime soon and so here we go with yet another useless prediction.

    --
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    1. Re:Let's take a hint from the financial world by MBCook · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Quite true. Sega was a great company that had a lot of success but the Dreamcast (which was a nice system) was not very successful (at least in the US).

      But let's look at recent history.

      Sony's released the highly anticipated PS2 with a rather meager launch lineup, and the system took off like a juggernaught after a while. The PSP was launched with much anticipation and we haven't seen too much of it since then. It is still there, and it isn't dead, but it wasn't the huge hit many expected it to be. The games aren't helping. (I must admit, I expected the system to take off after GTA: LCS came out and it didn't happen).

      Microsoft launched the XBox among much skepticism and speculation that it was more powerful, and the system did fine (not financially, but in general). They launched the 360 to skepticism and speculation that it was more powerful, and is doing fine.

      Nintendo launched the GameCube cheap, and it did very well. They launched the DS (which many people thought would be the next VirtualBoy, which was a great system with fantastic games, BTW) and after a short time without many games it has been picking up steam ever since. The system is HUGE in Japan and popular here in the states. Games are all over the map from traditional to experimental and from hard-core to "non-gamer".

      Expect MS and Sony to be much like the last generation. Sony may falter some, the XBox may do better. The Revolution is the wild card. It will either be much like the 'Cube (a great system that is beloved by owners but not big like the PS2) or it will take off like the NES did leaving competitors in it's dust. Either way, I'll be happy.

      I can't wait for the Rev, and I can't wait for GDC and E3 when we should find out more about all the systems.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  4. Hindsight... by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Dreamcast was more of a last-ditch attempt from a company that hadn't turned a profit in 10 years

    Yeah, I'm sure Sega was thinking that when they designed it... "Well, we're done for. Let's blow a whole bunch of money on one last failed console before closing the doors."

  5. Re:The REAL holy trinity by Vengeance · · Score: 2, Funny

    Onions, bell pepper, celery.

    BAM!

    --
    It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
  6. Course we can go another way by falcon5768 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    In the effect of Microsoft still has some hiccups 6 months or more down the line thanks to its rather lame game lineup, Sony shoots it's self in the foot with Blu-ray, and Nintendo instead takes the lead with its realization that 90% of the people dont want a uber system for 500 dollars, but would rather a 200 dollarish system that plays fun games, does it well, is backwards compatable, and has some inovative features (like the controller)

    I have said it before but I think the gaming industry in its thrust to make people spend computer system like amounts of money and to add the absolute best crap to their system without really testing it are prepping themselves for another video game crash like 81. And we ALL know who came out tops after that one.

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    1. Re:Course we can go another way by maumedia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I keep hearing this "nintendo is going to sweep the market" line from fanboys.

      What market are you referring to? Because I don't know anyone in my circle of friends, online and off, that could care less about the Rev. Maybe I have a biased circle, but all current consoles are represented.

      I bought a Cube for RE4, which was totally worth $100+game. Outside of that, as a "mature" gamer, I could pass on the entire game library other than RE4.

      Are people really itching to play NES games that badly? It seems to me that current games don't really do well if the graphics are a few months out of date. The "retro" market is a complete fabrication, as far as I'm concerned.

    2. Re:Course we can go another way by _xeno_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Of course, in my circle of friends, I don't know anyone who's interested in a next-gen console. Period.

      XBox360 has no games I'm interested in. PS3 has no games - at all, that I've heard of. (Other than random speculation that Series X+1 will be on it.) Revolution has no games - at all, that I've heard of. Not even speculation on sequels.

      So, based on that quicky-analysis, I can come up with absolutely no reason why I'd want to get a next generation console.

      Yet.

      That can all change. But it all depends on the games, and all the next-gen consoles seem to be lacking in that department...

      Are people really itching to play NES games that badly?

      On the Revolution? Nope. On the GBA/GBDS? Sure. Most of my GBA games are re-released NES/SNES games...

      --
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  7. Why is Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD!) such a deal maker? by 2Flower · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm not understanding this. These two new video formats do... what, exactly? Nothing, beyond showing higher quality digital video. Which is utterly useless unless you have an HD-TV, which is not exactly a universal standard.

    When the PS2 hit, it revolutionized / popularized DVDs. Why? Because a DVD cost at worst $25 at the time, and that's a good cheap buy. Couple that with the value you get out of having a combo game system and DVD player (since DVD players were expensive to buy seperately) and that's a no brainer money saver.

    But now, if you want to take advantage of Blu-Ray, you need a multi-thousand dollar television, and potentially more expensive movies. Which is NOT as much of a no-brainer as the PS2 was.

    On top of all that, we're rapidly approaching the point where we've gone as high-def as we realistically NEED to go. For a lot of folks, standard DVD is "fine." The upgrade is too expensive and the reward too low when you've got a workable solution; this isn't like VHS tapes which could degrade over time, had blatantly inferior video quality, and interactive features. DVD has plenty going for it and all HD adds on top is more rez, which while nice, isn't important enough.

    No. The video capability is not going to be what sells the PS3. It's a nice bonus but not as critical as the game library is at this point. (And given the 360's scrawny library, including unimpressive entries on the release chart, the PS3 has a good chance to sieze advantage...)

    1. Re:Why is Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD!) such a deal maker? by MBCook · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Well there is one thing in which having a new format helps over DVD: storage.

      With the revolution this may not be a problem. But if Final Fantasy XII were made as an XBox 360 exclusive game, how many discs do you think it would be? The cinematics take up a lot of room. So do all those high resolution textures (and bump maps, and normal maps, and...). Don't forget all the character/enemy/scenery models. That is a ton of data, and having it all on one disc helps quite a bit.

      That said, I don't think it will be such a big deal, at least not for awhile. If companies target the lowest-common-denominator, that would be DVD (both Rev and 360).

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  8. Attempt To Repeat History by blueZhift · · Score: 4, Informative

    One thing that has become apparent, at least to me, is Sony's attempt to repeat the history of the successful PS2 launch which was buoyed by the console's ability to play DVDs. The problem this time around though is that Blu-Ray is not established the way that DVDs were when the PS2 launched. I remember that I finally got tired of waiting for the PS2 to come out and went out and bought a Sony DVD player when the prices became more attractive. This time though, not only are there not Blu-Ray players available, there aren't any movies in the format either.

    I think the Xbox 360 launch pushed up the PS3 launch a year or even two ahead of where Sony wanted it to be. They really needed that time to get Blu-Ray established with movies and stand alone players. Then the PS3 would come along as a great game machine and a probably lower cost alternative to play Blu-Ray movies. Unfortunately, Microsoft has ruined that script. Now the Playstation 3 is going to have to live or die on gaming alone at launch, something that its predecessor would have had a hard time doing given the so so launch titles of that time (especially in Japan).

    I'm not saying that Sony has no chance to prevail against the competition, only that their attempt to repeat history has failed. They might have been better served by a more Nintendo-like attitude of releasing things when they are ready rather than being too worried about the competition and building so much hype. Of course, Sony probably has a lot of reasons that they really can't wait, especially since the Playstation brand is basically carrying the company these days.

    1. Re:Attempt To Repeat History by Cerium · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, I think the lack of inexpensive Blu-Ray players is going to help Sony far more than it will hurt them. Its pretty much expected that the PS3 isnt going to retail for $800.00 or some equally obscene amount of money, so people who are looking for the 'latest and greatest' in movie technology will be able to pick up a Blu-Ray player that happens to also play games for roughly half the cost of existing players. This is, of course, assuming the PS3 retails for no more than what the 360 does/did.

      Plus, unlike MS, Sony is in a position to push the Blu-Ray format via Sony Pictures. I may be dead wrong but unless MS makes some deals with companies, they have no way to force (video) media to be released on HD-DVD.

      Thats my $0.02, anyway.

  9. SWAG by killmenow · · Score: 5, Funny
    Here's my SWAG: The Xbox 360 will survive, not dominate. However, the third iteration of Microsoft's console will be the one to finally have a chance at knocking Sony out of the #1 spot. Why's that? It was this comment:
    ...delusion that just because this is Microsoft's second console...
    that got me thinking this. It made me think of Microsoft's track record. Their second iteration of any given product is not the one that is so successful. It's their third. Look at their products. Historically, versions 1 & 2 are dismal. It's version 3 that breaks through. MS-DOS 3, Windows 3, VB 3, etc.

    I think for Microsoft, truly the third time is the charm. And the cool thing about my prediction is that it's as well reasoned as those put forth by this article's author and I just pulled it out of my ass.
  10. The price point problem by Animats · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The real problem with the upcoming generation of consoles is that they cost much more than the previous generation, and they're not that much better. No way can the PS3 launch successfully at some $700-$800 price point. The XBox 360 is encountering serious price resistance at $299.

    Microsoft has been losing money in their game business since the original XBox launch. Their stock has been flat for five years, and the stockholders are starting to get annoyed with the money drain. Microsoft may at some point be pushed into "concentrating on their core business area". Losing money forever isn't a business.

  11. Re:What holy trinity are we talking by airos4 · · Score: 2, Funny

    As a dedicated Kevin Smith fan, I thought they meant A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. My bad.

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  12. Crash of '81 by Brownstar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And we ALL know who came out tops after that one.

    I do, but I don't think you do.

    None of the current hardware makers made it out. Only new console makers that came into the market after the crash did well.

    So if history repeats itself, how does that help Nintendo?

    If history repeats itself, then it's more likly that the Phantom will come out on top rather than the Revolution

  13. article says no profit in 10 years? by NeMon'ess · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Dreamcast launched in 1999. No profit in 10 years would be 1989. I'm pretty bloody sure Sega earned massive profits from the Genesis, which coincidentaly launched in 1989.