Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Bridging 3G, EDGE, GPRS, and WiFi

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the staying-plugged-in dept.

Rob writes to tell us CBR is reporting that T-Mobile is expanding their core network to provide seamless integration of 3G, EDGE, GPRS, and WiFi networks. From the article: "Nortel said it was able to provide T-Mobile with the new service thanks to integration of Nortel's existing Gateway GPRS Support Node with Azaire Networks' IP Converged Network Platform. Azaire's IP-CNP provides an integrated hybrid network by extending the services from the existing 3G and GSM core network investments over new access technologies like WiFi and WiMax, Nortel said."

23 of 93 comments (clear)

  1. GPRS/EDGE and the MDA by garcia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    T-Mobile will offer the new service to customers using laptops and dual mode PDAs, such as the T-Mobile MDA Pro, beginning in summer 2006.

    I don't have one, but from what I've read about the MDA is that it already supports EDGE, GPRS, and wifi. I currently use a Sidekick 2 (hiptop) and it uses only GPRS. I don't know if it's because some people have moved over to the EDGE network with compatible devices but I have noticed a significant speed increase on their GPRS network.

    I am drooling over the MDA (minus the fact that it runs Windows Mobile). Connection, at broadband speeds, pretty much whereever I am is a great thing to look forward to. I have to decide if it's worth switching to Windows Mobile and paying $450+ for it ;)

    1. Re:GPRS/EDGE and the MDA by Nexus7 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >I have to decide if it's worth switching to Windows Mobile and paying $450+ for

      Getting a PDA that has a specific network technology built-in is going to have you looking for another PDA when the other networks have better plans or faster speeds. You might want to consider getting a PDA with Bluetooth, and use as a modem a Bluetooth-enabled phone that works on the network du jour.

  2. TLA explanations by H4x0r+Jim+Duggan · · Score: 4, Informative

    For anyone who didn't order alphabet soup, here are the wikipedia articles on about 3G, about WIFI, about GPRS. Not sure about EDGE.

    --
    Please help publicise swpat.org - the software patents wiki
    1. Re:TLA explanations by Low2000 · · Score: 3, Informative

      EDGE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_f or_GSM_Evolution

    2. Re:TLA explanations by DdJ · · Score: 2, Funny

      The term "FLA" should not be used because it is not itself a "FLA" -- "FLA" is merely a "TLA". The term you're looking for is "ETLA", or "extended three letter acronym".

  3. Expanding... by LandownEyes · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would prefer it if T-Mobile expanded their core network to provide CALLS THAT DON'T DROP...after that, let's worry about the other stuff.

    1. Re:Expanding... by chrismcdirty · · Score: 2, Informative

      You may want to check your phone. I had T-Mobile prepaid for about a year with a Motorola V66. It had great coverage, great call quality, and it never dropped. I switched to a monthly plan to get a Razr (couldn't pass it up for $30), and now I regret it. Yeah, it's light and small. But so was my V66. And that one didn't emit squealing sounds every time I was using it for phone calls. Nor did it drop calls everywhere I was.

      --
      It's like sex, except I'm having it!
    2. Re:Expanding... by garcia · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, not that I use their network for calls all that much, I must say that I have *never* had a call drop on their network here in the Twin Cities. AT&T (prior to the Cingular buyout) dropped calls for me daily. Especially at the intersection of MN-13 and Cliff Rd in Burnsville.

    3. Re:Expanding... by Dionysus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Razr had a bug in it. Both Cingula and T-Mobile has stopped selling it (not disagreeing with what you said. Just expanding).

      --
      Je ne parle pas francais.
  4. Very weird coincidence by dada21 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I am sitting in my car, right now, as I type this. I had to check my e-mail (T-Mobile sends an SMS to my phone when it detects new mail on my POP3 server). I am currently using an EDGE connection (Laptop -> Bluetooth Modem of my T-Mobile Samsung t809 cell) to connect. While I am sitting here (McDonalds parking lot), my laptop detected and picked an open WiFi access point from the Popeye's Restaurant across the street, overriding the T-Mobile EDGE connection.

    It all works flawlessly from my standpoint, and this isn't even T-Mobile's entire network. I'm amazed at the speed of the EDGE connection (consistent 150kbps download in most of Chicagoland), and even more amazed at the amount of restaurants with open WiFi connections. I may run over to Popeye's right now and buy a way overpriced soda just to thank them financially for the connection.

    I just ftp'd two photos of where I'm at right now to prove my story. Check http://www.unanimocracy.com/photos/popeyes1.jpg and http://www.unanimocracy.com/photos/popeyes2.jpg in a few minutes. I love technology.

  5. Only In Europe... by nano_assembler · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As an American, I read about these nifty phone network upgrades and know that I will not see them for at least 3 years. Why is this? Is it the geographical size of the market? The size of the customer bases that subscribe to the networks? Regulatory restrictions? User demand/knowledge/acceptance of these features?

    I am inviting anyone in the know to please beat me with the clue stick!

    1. Re:Only In Europe... by garcia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As an American, I read about these nifty phone network upgrades and know that I will not see them for at least 3 years.

      EDGE has already been rolled out in the Minneapolis metro. I know it has already been launched elsewhere as well. I guess it's not "three years" for everyone.

    2. Re:Only In Europe... by The+Mad+Debugger · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Cingular is in the process of rolling out UMTS with HSDPA, it's already available in a bunch of markets, and Verizon and Sprint already have EVDO all over the place. I even see two UMTS handsets on the Cingular website for my market. Unless you're living somewhere pretty rural, we've already *got* all the good stuff.

      My guess, BTW, is that T-Mobile is interested in this wi-fi stuff because they're farthest back in the pack to deploy 3G data. They're mostly stuck with EDGE, and they won't be able to compete without tying in all their Wi-Fi hotspots.. and I'm not even sure they have the spectrum they'd need for a UMTS rollout.

    3. Re:Only In Europe... by Karelian · · Score: 3, Informative
      In Europe, the same phone works with nearly all major vendors - Telecom Italia Mobile, Telefonica, Orange, Vodafone, etc. Production ramp-ups of hot new models are geared for the GSM-900/1800 markets in Europe and Asia.

      In North America, the same CDMA phone does not work with Verizon and Sprint - the technologies are slightly different. GSM operators T-Mobile and AT&T have less than half of the overall market - and a GSM variation operating on different bandwidths than the global 900/1800 combo. There are several CDMA flavors plus an idiosyncratic GSM variation.

      With minor tweaks, the European GSM luxury phone designed for T-Mobile or Vodafone can be also sold to China Mobile or Indian GSM operators - the economies of scale outside the North America are vast. When you create a high-end phone, tapping into a billion sub user base of regular GSM 900/1800 subs is a big help - and the same is starting to apply to GSM-900/1800 plus GPRS plus EDGE plus W-CDMA phones.

    4. Re:Only In Europe... by RevMike · · Score: 2, Informative

      As an American, I read about these nifty phone network upgrades and know that I will not see them for at least 3 years. Why is this? Is it the geographical size of the market? The size of the customer bases that subscribe to the networks? Regulatory restrictions? User demand/knowledge/acceptance of these features?

      I am inviting anyone in the know to please beat me with the clue stick!

      I'll gladly beat you with the clue stick.

      As an American, you've had access to the better technology for quite a while now. GSM, based on TDMA, is fundamentally inferior to the more prevelent CDMA technology used in the United States as well as much of the pacific rim. The EDGE is laughable. GPRS, which all the GSM fanboys are so excited about, is equivalent to the CDMA2000 1xRTT protocol available nationwide for at least three or four years now. CDMA2000 1xEvDO is currently delivering speeds of 400-600 kbs with bursts up to 2 Mbps in 50+ metro areas. I use this on a daily basis, and those speeds are not just marketing literature.

      The GSM/TDMA infrastructure is essentially at end-of-life, and the providers in Europe are finally starting to deploy CDMA based WCDMA/UMTS systems. UMTS grafts the GSM style sim card and other parts of the stack with a CDMA network layer. UMTS can provide data rates similar to EvDO, as well as 8 times the calls of a GSM node at only 1.5 times the cost.

      The radios used for CDMA2000 and WCDMA are identical, so the primary handset differences are in software. Expect to see a next generation of CDMA phones able to roam on both CDMA2000 and WCDMA/UMTS systems. Hopefully that will allow the legacy CDMA providers to migrate to admittedly superior SIM card based systems.

    5. Re:Only In Europe... by RevMike · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, it is you who is missing the point. Go look at some prices. Vodaphone, for instance charges 90 Euro - $107 - for 500 minutes. Verizon, by comparison, will sell you 2000 peak minutes for $100, which more than makes up for the incoming charges. European carriers can't provide the services that Sprint and Verizon can provide in the US.

      Europe standardized on a bad standard. In their rush to standardize, they didn't let the technology develop sufficiently. Now they are in the position of abandoning their infrastructure and building a new one at huge expense.

      The US allowed the carriers to do their own thing, and because of it there was mass chaos at the beginning. But after several rounds of consolidation, standardization has come without the intervention of bureaucrats. And winners are using the superior technology.

      Better service for less money. Europe has become the backwater.

      As a side note, keep in mind that the legacy environment in Europe and the Unites States was far different. In Europe, the phone systems were generally incredibly bad. Just getting service would frequently take months, and the charges were exhorbitant. For all its faults, the traditional telephone system in the United States was exceptionally well run and efficient. The charges were low, especially for local calling. If one decided they needed a new line on Monday, it would generally be installed and working on Wednesday or Thursady. In Europe, mobile phones were a way to sidestep the train wreck of a wired phone system; there was pent up demand. In the US, mobile phones were luxury items for a long time.

    6. Re:Only In Europe... by jonwil · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you think the US has anything like a standard, you clearly dont know anything about mobile telephony...

      Firstly, there are the providers using GSM (most of which are on bands different to the bands seen in europe, australia etc)
      Secondly, there are the providers on CDMA (like verizon) each of which has their own phones and wont let you use any other phone on the network.
      Then you have providers rolling out things like UMTS (aka 3G) which is yet another standard.
      Not to mention the propriatory motorola developed IDEN standard used by Nextel (now Sprint Nextel). And there are still people out there using the AMPS analog system.
      Here in australia, its pretty simple by comparison.
      Most people are on GSM with a big push to rollout UMTS.
      Then, there are CDMA networks that were installed to reach the few % of the population GSM cant easily reach but those are disappearing now.
      AMPS is completly gone.

  6. Living in Interesting Times by Karelian · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This is the crunch time for operators. Roughly half of mobile phone calls originate or end in homes. Most markets in North America, Europe and Asia have now 4-6 rival operators offering mobile call services if you count the MVNO's. The first wave of mobile/WiFi hybrid phones is arriving.

    Will operators truly start offering seamlessly swithcing mobile/WiFi models to consumers? As long as the operators refuse to subsidize hybrid models they can prevent rapid pick-up of these models. But when the first major operator (or a cluster of smaller challenger operators) gets serious about offering hybrid phones, the ARPU pressure could suddenly spike in a brutal manner.

    WiFi telephony is kind of unreliable and weird for most consumers - but as a supplementary feature in a GSM/GPRS/EDGE/W-CDMA phone it's lethally appealing. How about cutting your mobile minutes roughly in half by seamlessly swithching to WiFi every time you are at home?

    It's a great marketing angle for the first operator latching onto it. Once you get 4-6 operators embracing the concept, the whole sector ARPU outlook is going to crater.

    Will T-Mobile play the Judas goat?

  7. screw 3G...etc by atarione · · Score: 3, Interesting

    why couldn't we just bypass the cellular guys altogether (skipping 3G, GPRS and Edge). and instead focus on creating a new VoIP based service in conjunction w/ WiMAX?)

    --
    actually I am happy to see you, however that is in fact a banana in my pocket.
    1. Re:screw 3G...etc by Karelian · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Coverage is a big challenge. W-CDMA networks are complemented by GSM/GPRS/EDGE networks that have been built up over the past decade. Consumers need coverage in highways and beaches and parks - not just in cities and suburbs.

      WiMAX is going to be hard pressed to handle high populations densities of major cities - mobile networks now flavors to handle both rural areas (GSM, CDMA) and cities (W-CDMA, CDMA-2000).

  8. Good for my Nortel shares? by limabone · · Score: 2, Funny

    Woohoo...all I need is the stock to go up another 400% and I can break even!

  9. America the beautiful by Internet+Ronin · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ahhh, it's always nice to know America's on the forefront of technology. I love this place. What? You mean it's only in Europe? What do you mean T-Mobile doesn't have UMTS in the states? As a former employee, all you business-suited technocrat wannabes can sit back down, because it takes FOREVER for T-Mobile (DT) to translate to T-Mobile (USA). In fact, if you RTA, you'll see that Nortel doesn't provide any infrastructure in the USA (though perhaps the article doesn't mention any either because it's beyond the scope of an article that is Euro-centric, or because Nortel doesn't provide their American infrastructure, I'm not sure). Frankly, T-Mobile USA and DT might as well be seperate companies, with the exception of where the money goes (TM USA provides quite a bit of capital for the DT folk, who last time I checked were struggling), which is to the DT execs, and where the marketing paraphanelia comes from (i.e. the big pink T). T-Mobile's (US) UMA plans have been sidetracked for more than a year now, with a planned launch initially scheduled for 2005. UMA= universal mobile access, the seamless handoff between Wifi and Cellular networks. Good luck to anyone who wants to see this stateside, the FCC, lack of sufficient political and financial capital, and internal company shenanigans will keep this on the other side for a while.

  10. Nortel is all about infrastructure in the US. by Kodack · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's true that Tmobile doesn't use the Nortel GGSN in North America (I think they went with Nokia or something) but in most of the markets the core network is Nortel, especially on the radio side.

    Several carriers are using Nortel equipment to build out their GPRS and EDGE networks as well.

    Most of the standards are compatible so you can have a variety of equipment on a site. But there are thousands of "core" networks in the US built on Nortel systems.

    It's true that the market conditions in Europe and the US result in different focus on the network elements, but the systems are fundamentally the same.

    A lot of it has to do with different regulatory requirements between the EU and the FCC.

    In any case both are way behind South Korea and Japan when it comes to the latest technology and products. This is more of a cultural difference than a monetary one. People are slow to adopt new technology in the west.