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Vista May Put Anti-Spyware Companies Out

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the getting-ahead-of-ourselves dept.

Ant wrote to mention a C|Net article with an interesting premise: Windows Vista's tough approach to spyware may put anti-spyware companies out of business. From the article: "While this may be good news for buyers of Vista, it is not for anyone who makes a living from selling anti-spyware software. The worldwide market has boomed recently, reaching $97 million in revenue in 2004, up 240.4 percent from a year earlier, according to IDC. However, companies such as Webroot Software and Sunbelt Software are in for tough times, analysts said."

21 of 392 comments (clear)

  1. ...well... by BewireNomali · · Score: 5, Insightful

    didn't msft put anti-spyware companies into business in the first place?

    msft giveth, msft taketh away.

    --
    un burrito me trampeó.
    1. Re:...well... by Pneuma+ROCKS · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think spyware is going anywhere. Just as spam, it's here to stay. Many promises have been made by Microsoft in the past and they've been broken like little dry twigs. Giving them lots of credit, one might think they can eliminate and prevent all current forms of spyware, but there are always new ways, and they are always found. I hope Vista is more secure, but infalible? Not even close.

      --
      Favorite quote: "
    2. Re:...well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So... Don't stop wars because peace puts the military out of business... Don't use alternative energy resources because it puts oil companies out of business... Don't use alternative healing methods because it puts pharmaceutical companies out of business... Don't drop any laws because it could put lawyers out of business... Hey, none of them could have ever anticipated that things could change for the better... Better let millions suffer than let a few become less rich... NOT!

    3. Re:...well... by Tim+C · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But it is very unlikely, probably unfeasible for a Windows release to be spyware-free, even with (or despite having) Microsoft security tools being part of the OS.

      There's nothing that Windows (or Linux, or OS X, *BSD, Solaris, etc) can do to prevent me from installing stuff if I have the admin (or root) password. All it can do is try to prevent things from installing without my say so; if I choose to install CometBonziCursorBuddy, it can't stop me.

      As long as people write crap, other people will install crap. All we can hope to do is educate people to stop installing crap.

      --
      It's official. Most of you are morons.
    4. Re:...well... by ozmanjusri · · Score: 4, Insightful
      As long as people write crap, other people will install crap. All we can hope to do is educate people to stop installing crap.

      No, that's crap. You can never educate enough people to make a difference. OS vendors need to write systems that;

      • make it safe for users to install crap
      • make it easy for users to remove crap

      The reason crap happens to Windows is that it is easy to put persistent malware on people's computers. If the OS was designed so users could remove crap themselves, there wouldn't be the same motivation to make malware.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    5. Re:...well... by ozmanjusri · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What you're saying is technically not possible.

      Tell that to my Knoppix CD...

      I think it IS possible if your OS and hardware are designed properly. You have your core OS on RO media, apps in their own hardware lockable (switch or key) area, strictly compartmentalised human readable config files, and a separate noexe area for data files.

      A sandbox (chroot or VM) environment for trying dodgy stuff would be nice too...

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    6. Re:...well... by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're forgetting something here: there's a great deal of this kind of crap out there that installs itself in Windows without the user's say-so. No download, no click "OK" or anything. You're online and boom, you've got spyware. A router helps, a firewall helps, Peer Guardian and WinPatrol help a lot, but you never know when another thing might come along that can get through them and be on your system before you know it.

      It's a common misconception that malware has to be installed on a Windows system with the user's permission - but it doesn't. People keep saying that the users need to be educated enough not to install crap on their systems, but a lot of people obviously need to be educated about the fact that not all spyware is installed with the user's permission. At least half of it is not. It's this kind of "it's all the foolish users installing crap" attitude that helps malware flourish; people think their system is safe if they don't download attachments and install stuff off the net, but they're not. Not at all.

      --
      I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
  2. Just Fair by Zo0ok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you are in business just because another company sells crappy products to lots of people you dont deserve to stay in business forever.

    1. Re:Just Fair by ZeroExistenZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's called opportunism and demand for a service.

      There's no "deserve" in doing business and trying to meet a demand in order to make money off of it.

      --
      I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
    2. Re:Just Fair by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Insightful
      There's no "deserve" in doing business and trying to meet a demand in order to make money off of it.
      Tell that to the natural gas companies.

      Their rates are regulated by the state, so they basically work out a rate that includes costs + profit.

      If demand goes up, so do prices
      If demand goes down, guess what happens.

      Yep, prices go up. Why? Because they aren't making their agreed upon level of profit. It's a fairly cushy deal.

      Be glad MS isn't truly a monopoly, cause if they were, they'd be regulated & their profit margin would be enshrined in law.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  3. Analysis by jaymzter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Every version of windows since Windows NT was supposed to be better and more secure. Unfortunately that wasn't the case as we all know. How about we hold off on the hyperbole until Vista ships one of these days and we see how it actually works, not how some marketdroid claims it will.

    --
    If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
    1. Re:Analysis by nacturation · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about we realize that, in this case, CNet is just a shill for the Microsoft PR department.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
  4. They'll find a way. by bluemeep · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For every unstoppable wall of protection, some jackass'll find a way around it. It's only a matter of time.

    1. Re:They'll find a way. by Ilgaz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is a common misconception that Spyware/Adware programmers are "lamer", "script kiddie" types.

      They are advanced programmers which reads slashdot, post to usenet etc too.

      They are just "evil" or don't have/believe in ethics.

  5. Nah, don't think so by KenDodd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do they mean the same way that SQL Server put Oracle out? And Windows 200 killed Linux? Come, come - what utter twaddle. The "spyware/piss-you-off-ware" concocters will just shift paradigm.

    --
    Did you know my dad's dog died?
  6. flawed? by Khashishi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just because it can't be expected to last, doesn't mean it's flawed. Businesses need to adapt, and if a market for fixing broken products opens, it's sensible to meet that market before it goes away (so long as they don't spend too much in NRE).

  7. Re:One missed is still too many! by dink353 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One piece of spyware missed is too many, I agree, but is there a software vendor out there that produces a Anti-Spyware product that DOES get it all?

  8. Webroot Software and Sunbelt Software... by Aphrika · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...sorry to be an ignoramus, but who?

    As far as I'm concerned, if M$ are closing holes that shouldn't really be there, that's a Good Thing (tm).

    I mean, these same spyware companies don't make a mint off other OSes do they, so why should they piggy-back a specific one? Isn't that essentially making money from a weakness? And if the weakness is removed, well... game over I guess, until M$ falls at the next hurdle and people make cash out of it. I mean, Mr. Norton seems to have had it quite easy for a while now...

  9. Re:How dare they! by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not quite. It's more like "how dare Microsoft charge extra for a workaround instead of fixing the shortcomings in the first place for free, like companies in every other industry (such as the auto industry) would be forced to do?!"

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  10. Re:How dare they! by drsmithy · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It's more like "how dare Microsoft charge extra for a workaround instead of fixing the shortcomings in the first place for free, like companies in every other industry (such as the auto industry) would be forced to do?!"

    Almost all malware exploits shortcomings in the user, not the software.

  11. What about StarForce et. al.? by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    StarForce installs special drivers that allow user-level code to jump to System level. (That's even higher than Administrator, BTW.) Why does anyone think they'd do anything different in Vista? Malware will just find these kind of holes, and exploit them. And those holes will exist because even semi-legit software companies want them to.

    --
    PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!