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FOSS and Disabled Communities Out of Touch

Yinepuhotep writes "Newsforge has a thought-provoking article on the lack of communication between the FOSS community and disabled persons." From the article: "How can the FOSS community address the issues of the disabled? The most urgent task is to improve documentation. Perhaps you can make it a personal goal to be able to configure your favorite FOSS tool blindfolded while someone reads your improved instructions aloud. Your local LUG could organize ways to connect volunteers to assist disabled users with installations. Be sure to contact local disability rights groups to let them know what you're doing. They may also be able to provide more feedback about needs in your community."

27 of 263 comments (clear)

  1. This is a tough place for developers to be in... by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is definitely a challenge for all developers world wide. However, this is nothing new, or unique to FOSS, just an old problem approached from a new perspective.

    As mentioned in the article, this leads back to an earlier Slashdot news post, on the Consistency/Efficiency debate.

    I would be inclined to lean towards consistency myself, and side with the disabled folks, but how can you create new and exciting platforms while still being maintaining familiarity. If you ask me, the web is an excellent case study in creating exciting new products, while simultaneously establishing conventions.

    Perhaps this article shouldn't be taken as a call to turn all of the FOSS software into retail clones, but to concentrate on bringing innovative features, while still maintaining a consistant and familiar interface.

  2. Gimme, Gimme, Gimme by killjoe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can a blind person install and configure windows, iis, SQL server, exchange, and active directory?

    Once your favorite OSS tool is installed can a blind person use them?

    How about other types of disabilities? How about if a person is blind and deaf? Or is missing both arms? Or is a quadrapeligic? How do we help them install and use linux?

    It seems to me that you have to draw the line someplace. If somebody wants to put forth the effort then great but honestly why don't we concentrate on getting the documentation so that a reasonably intelligent non disabled person can use it first. Then we can worry about the blind.

    In the mean time if a blind person wants to run linux please have them contact their local LUG, I am pretty sure somebody would step up to the plate. Another option might be to buy a pre-installed linux machine, lots of companies sell them.

    --
    evil is as evil does
    1. Re:Gimme, Gimme, Gimme by murr · · Score: 5, Informative

      an a blind person install and configure windows, iis, SQL server, exchange, and active directory?

      I don't know about that, but MacOS X (starting with 10.4) is designed to be installable by a blind person.

    2. Re:Gimme, Gimme, Gimme by TheFlyingGoat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Other than configuring Windows, all the other examples you give are server administration related. While there are people with certain disabilities that are system administrators, most have already solved many of the issues they'll face in that field. Many are only partially disabled or have the proper equipment to deal with the situations they'll come up against.

      I believe more important is that the OSS community focus on making user software accessible to people with disabilities. Gnome focuses on this quite a bit. Firefox has done a decent job by including mouse gestures. There's still plenty of room for improvement, however.

      My wife works as an occupational therapist and I spoke with her about this a few months ago. She said that most popular Windows software is pretty well designed for people with handicaps (customizable menus, font sizes, color schemes, layout, etc). She hasn't worked with many linux programs, so she couldn't provide much of a comparison, but your comments are why disabled people might not choose linux over Windows. Just like most users, they just want software that works for them. If the software needs to be designed slightly better to work for them, then where's the harm in trying to improve it?

      --
      You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
    3. Re:Gimme, Gimme, Gimme by babbling · · Score: 3, Informative

      The thing is, if you make everything clean enough to be used by users with disabilities, the entire system ALSO becomes more usable for regular users, usually.

      A good example is webpages. Having them be standards compliant is important for users with disabilities. The standards compliance also helps regular users on text-based browsers, and regular users in general.

    4. Re:Gimme, Gimme, Gimme by powermacx · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Tiger's (OS X 10.4) VoiceOver is indeed very useful. I'm not blind, but I had to go on for several days without a monitor after a power surge killed my CRT. Luckily I remembered the key combo to activate VoiceOver, and for a few days I used my Mac "blind", and was able to send and receive emails, even to the point of arranging my next monitor purchase thru it.

    5. Re:Gimme, Gimme, Gimme by BlueStrat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      WHere is the harm? You just stated the harm. Every minute and every dollar spent making linux work for the blind is a minute not spent making linux work better for the average user.

      Actually, that's not quite true. One of the major bullet points for large corporations these days is complying with the myriad disabled worker regulations they must comply with regarding accessibility, etc.

      Having a company workstation OS that can be configured for a disabled worker is a big plus, and would help adoption by the large corporations. My point being that improving accessibility for the disabled is a win-win, for both the corporations and disabled individuals.

      Not saying that it would cause immediate migration or anything, but it *would* be a plus.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    6. Re:Gimme, Gimme, Gimme by geminidomino · · Score: 3, Funny

      Guide to Emacspeak...

      Forcing the blind to use emacs goes beyond discrimination and into just plain cruel. ;)

    7. Re:Gimme, Gimme, Gimme by hcdejong · · Score: 3, Informative

      She said that most popular Windows software is pretty well designed for people with handicaps (customizable menus, font sizes, color schemes, layout, etc). She hasn't worked with many linux programs, so she couldn't provide much of a comparison, but your comments are why disabled people might not choose linux over Windows. Just like most users, they just want software that works for them. If the software needs to be designed slightly better to work for them, then where's the harm in trying to improve it?

      Interestingly, most of these items would benefit non-handicapped people just as much. Too many programs rely on a limited set of assumptions.

      One example I've come across: the assumption that a monitor has 72 dpi resolution. In Windows, you can resize the standard UI elements to be usable on monitors with a higher resolution, but applications that use nonstandard UI widgets all too often ignore this setting. Winamp is an example of how it shouldn't be done: it's tiny on my 21" monitor running at 1600x1200. Photoshop palettes suffer from the same problem.

  3. What we need is more disabled OSS developers... by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... poke an OSS developer in the eyes today!

  4. Re:It's funny... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Coincidentially, I would imagine that good old command-line interface, which is well developed in Linux, compared to *cough cough* some OSes, would be the best for blind people in terms of accessibility.

  5. what about blind people? by klasikahl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    dmwaters, a really cool blind lady, is an IRCop on Freenode. I wonder what she'd have to say about the article.

    1. Re:what about blind people? by klasikahl · · Score: 3, Informative

      Oh, and she's also a Gentoo dev. How could I forget?

  6. larger problem by a.d.trick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not just FOSS. The computer world as a whole has largely ignored them. There have been several notible attempts to make them equals (the W3C for example), but the problem is that software interface people are 1) generally not disabled and do not understand what it is like to be disabled, and 2) generally aren't even experts at all, but tossed in from the software development or marketing department. As a result they're often clueless about accessability (hell even usability is a serious problems in many cases).

    This isn't limited to FOSS. For a perfect example, see Netscape.

  7. Just to be crass and insensitive by nickgrieve · · Score: 3, Funny

    The FOSS community has enough trouble getting things working for the able bodied let alone the disabled...

    rimshot

    thanks, I am here all week... tip your waitress...

  8. Every man for himself by onesadcookie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It strikes me that the open-source community is, by and large, an "every man for himself" environment. People create software that helps them solve the problems they have; they fix issues in that software that affect their usage of it. To a certain extent the highly organized, high-participation projects can alleviate that, but even there, if there's a dearth of volunteers for a particular task, what're the chances it'll actually get done?

    That's not to say that all accessibility enhancements must be made by the disabled; there are of course a few charitable developers out there who'd be willing to take on these tasks for the greater good, and there are the friends and relatives of the disabled, who are in some sense "closer to the front line"... Realistically (or perhaps cynically) though, unless capable open-source developers are suffering without it, or unless someone sits down and pays for the development of it, the accessibility of open-source software is always going to be a low priority.

    Don't like it? Do something about it yourself, or create a charitable foundation to pay for other people to. Such is capitalism, and such is human nature.

  9. So true. by pimpsoftcom · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm what the state calls "Visually Disabled". Some people would rather just say I'm retarded, or even "useless". All are terms I often hear, despite the fact that I was born normal with better then 20/20 eyesight.

    Like it or not there is a large rift between the needs of the disabled and the people willing to take the extra time to address it. Disabled people, no matter the affliction, all have the same problem today: Only the people who need the extra interface flexibility are the ones interested in doing anything about it. And 99% of the time, they still cant because what they need is required to be able to build that very same system. Its a recursive dependency.

    We need a better focus on software based voice systems. Speech recognition, and yes better generation, it all needs to be there and sound good and be fast doing it. And yes, sounding good matters. I always laugh when I hear (google for festival, flite, blind linux) people talk about "eye candy" or "improved frame rates". They dont matter, and its just useless junk to me and others who lack the visual functions to care about how crisp the screen looks; What I and every other visually disabled person wants is "Ear Candy", the type of synthed voice that sounds like she or he really exists, so we dont get fed up with listening to that horrible robot voice all day and go crazy.

    One thing that most people dont understand as well is that most of us who are disabled in any way at all are dirt poor. It could be from medical bills, the lack of the ability to even work because of our disability, the fact that to most we are seen as less then human so people dont want to hire us for work we can do, or any number of other reasons. The fact is, most of us do not have much money and have a lot of free time on our hands. We could be open sources greatest contributors if the OOS community cared enough to do the things we cant to help us make the tools we need. Once our hungry minds have the option, you have no idea how much we will use it.

    I'm very lucky. I worked as a independent consulted for 5 years, taught myself as much as I could while I still had better eye sight then I do now in my "good" eye, and make sure to keep lights dim or off when I dont have to worry about a sightie needing more light to function so I dont get eye strain or migraines that could keep me from working due to my photo sensitivity. I made a living with Linux offering support, administration services, and my skills as a code monkey against all odds for 5 years, before my current job, because I did not give up. Many of my fellow disabled did not have the chance to use even that much sight, or did not get the time I did at a young age to learn things the "normal" way before my accident. That gave me a slight advantage, as now I know both worlds.

    Most of us dont have that. But then again most people dont understand, they cant. So everybody reading this, pick a day out of the week and go to bed the night before wearing a blindfold. Wake up with it still on and go through just one day without your ability to see. At all. Then maybe you will get a hint of what it is like for us, OOS's most eager and unwelcome members. And I say only a hint as that is all you will get; Because the first time you fall down, bump into something and break soemthing, want to cook a meal or need to take a piss, the first thing your going to do is take that blindfold off. Just remember that many do not have that option.

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    - d
  10. For the blind... by ndogg · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    // file: mice.h
    #include "frickin_lasers.h"
  11. Community a natural market for FOSS by CarpetShark · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This is definitely a challenge for all developers world wide. However, this is nothing new, or unique to FOSS, just an old problem approached from a new perspective.


    Yes. However, what surprises me is that the Free Software community doesn't have stronger ties with community-centric organisations such as voluntary groups, human rights groups, etc. They're really natural allies, considering the ethical concerns that both groups take seriously etc.
    1. Re:Community a natural market for FOSS by moonbender · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's true, but it's fairly natural and probably all right. Most people, that is those few that chose to work on any such issues focus on just one and take it "too serious", that is concentrate on it to the detriment of other issues. Take the animal rights guys for example. Or even the so-called anti globalisation people.

      The cool thing is that when lots of people concentrate on things that are important to them, most things get covered and most things get covered fairly deeply. Sure I don't want to contemplate a world where everyone is an RMS, but a few of them are a very good thing.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  12. huh? by Simon+Garlick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The most urgent task is to improve documentation.

    Not for me it isn't. "Open Source" does not mean "good works for charity".

  13. Standardization helps assistive technologies... by StandardsSchmandards · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It seems to me that you have to draw the line someplace.
    A common mistake is to treat disabled users as a separate group. In fact, disability is something that affects most people at some time in their life and disabled users (with varying disability) will exist in all target groups you can come up with for your OSS project. Instead, focus on standardization. In this way you will enable assistive technologies such as screen readers, magnifiers and braille displays to make the most out of your application. A few hints: If your OSS project is as web app, use the W3C specifications for HTML, test your app with the W3C validator and learn about basic semantic markup. This goes for all you Wordpress template creators out there as well. If you project is a Windows app, make sure it is compatible with Microsoft Active Accessibility Api. In general, follow the GUI guidelines or the environment your application is supposed to be used in.
  14. Crock o' Shit by caffeination · · Score: 4, Informative
    It's just another thing being worked on. It's not a case of being out of touch, as clearly there are several tools, mostly aimed at the visually impaired, which is what they really mean by disabled.
    • Even Slackware gives the option to install a speakup kernel.
    • KDE has text-to-speech, though only the frontend in earlier versions.
    • KDE also enables you to resize the screen easily, helping those with less severe vision problems.
    • Check this out
    Nothing in FOSS can be taken and presented as An Official Display of How Good It Is And Always Shall Be. Most things are work in progress.

    If there's a lack of communication, it's the fault of the disabled community. Or are FOSS developers to spend their time researching potential user groups' needs instead of coding? I imagine that disabled rights groups have already provided the necessary information, and are just waiting for the tools to appear, because from what little I've seen, they're very good at doing their part. If they haven't done that yet, tough luck. Unless they want some sighted programmer to just guess?

    Another thing I didn't like about this article was its use of the phrase "disabled people". It's about THE BLIND, so just say THE BLIND. Deaf people don't have any fixable problems with computers unless some idiot decides to make their program depend on sound feedback. There's little we can do to enable a dumb person to use VOIP, short of recognising their speech and converting it to text. Reduced mobility users need to complain to their hardware vendors if there are no Linux drivers for their single-handed keyboards or whatever they may need. They are working on blind access. Work is slow because FOSS runs on itch scratching. People make software that they want. Companies work on software that they use.

    I really want blind users to be able to have their needs catered for. I don't want them to need to send letters saying things like "Do you know that choosing Linux means excluding blind users?". But as in everything else, steps are being made. Unfortunately, it's quite a long journey:

    he has not found "a distribution that boots" and detects "Italian speech synthesizers, or Braille terminals with the brltty driver."
  15. Yet another reason for web standards by leoboiko · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is an additional reason to learn proper (X)HTML, CSS et al. They have very interesting accessibility features which cannot be matched by ad-hoc MSIE HTML.

    BTW, while I'm evangelizing standards, every web developer, *especially* framework developers (Rails guys, I'm looking at you), should be required by law to read the damn HTTP RFC. Content-negotiation is so underrated; it could be very useful for accessibility. HTTP rulez, it's a shame that so few reconize it.

    --
    Prescriptive grammar:linguistics :: alchemy:chemistry. Stop being a nazi and learn some science.
  16. Re:someone needed to read it aloud? by stebe · · Score: 3, Funny

    I am all for these man pages that read themselves aloud. Sometimes it is just so hard to muster the proper indignation needed to tell a blind newbie GSTRTFMTY (Get Someone To RTFM To You).

  17. Programming for the Blind by mkeller · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Until I witnessed a 100% blind person using a computer, my
    understanding of the problem was very flawed. With the
    monitor turned off he could browse web sites, read/write
    email, and puzzle through popup error messages. He used
    a text to speech software package that read to him faster
    than I could listen. The package also provided an interface
    for configuring a huge number of custom hotkeys which he
    programmed and used extensively. The way his brain adapted to a
    sound based interface was amazing. I've never seen anything
    like it.

  18. I'm not blind ... but ... by Skapare · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... I do have this eye condition where my eyes focus differently in different colors. Where normal vision would see a white dot on a black background, when that dot is made up of 3 narrow band colors, what I see are 3 separate dots. They aren't too far apart, although the blue one is out of focus and fuzzy. When reading white text on a black background, I get a mix of colors. I can read it, but it causes eyestrain. Reversing that to black text on white background makes it easier on my eyes. That's how I'm typing on Slashdot right now. Every character I type has fuzzy color edges to it ... red on the left and bottom, blue on the top, green on the right, and yellow below the red on the bottom.

    I deal with this in a number of ways. Since I do most of my programming, system administration, and network administration via the text mode console in Linux, I just change the colors there to better suit my needs. By making the contrast between foreground color and background color limited to a single color, where the other 2 colors have the same intensity between foreground and background, I can read text easily with no eyestrain for hours. So in that sense I'm taking care of myself, and I'm lucky enough to not be disabled in a way that prevents me from managing to do that from the starting point that's designed specifically for normal vision people.

    That said, there are still some troubling issues that people need to be aware of and sensitive to. There are a few programs that operate in a text environment (can run on console, or under xterm, etc) that intentionally alter the color environment, and screw up my color setup. It needs to be possible to disable that. In one program I was trying, which erased all my color maps and substituted the defaults, someone suggested the monochrome option it had. In that mode it still erased all my color maps, and then showed me only white text on black background. That didn't actually help at all. What I need is for programs to either leave my colors alone, or at least provide an option (documented in the man page ... yes, I read those) to turn that off. And by "off" I don't mean not to use different color text for highlighting, I mean just don't alter my color maps.

    It's worse in X. Not all the colors can be changed in one place. Each application has its own separate configuration for colors. It would help if there was a standardized place for all applications to check for color preferences and at least use them by default. And web pages are a bit worse because each web site, if it can even be changed at all, has to be changed separately. It's getting a tad bit better with more widespread use of style sheets and such.

    I also have to be sensitive to the fact that there is a wide range of possible disabilities or just difficulties (what I classify my condition as) and that program developers just can't easily envision, or certainly can't readily test, how their software deals with all the possible needs of different users. I'm sure stuff I've written might be difficult or impossible to use by some others depending on their disability. But the better we can communicate between developers and users, the more we can both improve usability.

    This condition I have is only a problem when the light sources are made up of discrete narrowband colors. A broad continuous spectrum doesn't really cause the problem because it just makes things a tiny bit fuzzy in a smooth way that is easy to focus on. Sunlight is almost perfectly continuous. Incandescent light bulbs are also just as good. This condition doesn't affect my ability to actually see; it merely causes stress and eyestrain when the conditions are worse. One of the worst things for me are fluorescent lights. Then everything I look at under that lighting has the problem. White LEDs are no better. Ironically, those orange-peach colored high pressure sodium lamps often used on streets and parking lots don't cause me any problems at all (though they ca

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    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars