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DRM More Important Than Life or Security?

An anonymous reader writes "Ed Felten of Freedom to Tinker has an interesting writeup regarding how copyright holders are still having serious objections to the built in exceptions of the DMCA even when it might threaten lives or national security. From the article: 'One would have thought they'd make awfully sure that a DRM measure didn't threaten critical infrastructure or endanger lives, before they deployed that measure. But apparently they want to keep open the option of deploying DRM even when there are severe doubts about whether it threatens critical infrastructure and potentially endangers lives.'"

67 of 427 comments (clear)

  1. "Copyright holders" don't give a fuck ... by kcbrown · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ... about anything but themselves.

    They never have. Perhaps the biggest role of the corporations that belong to the organizations mentioned in TFA is to act as a middleman. Today they add almost no value to the economic equation. That means they're basically parasites. Parasites that, in this case, don't give a fuck about the host (the public) they prey upon.

    As long as they get theirs, that's all that matters to them. And they will do everything in their considerable power to make sure that remains the case. They embody everything that is wrong with modern crony capitalism.

    It's long past time for them to die.

    --
    Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
    1. Re:"Copyright holders" don't give a fuck ... by khakipuce · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you every created anything, you too are a copyright holder. I believe that's the whole point of "copy-left" type licenses - i.e. they make it ok for you to copy my work, otherwise it would not be ok. And if you are a creative person there is nothing wrong with trying to make a living from your cretions. I do agree with your sentiment though, the big publishers never create anything themselves and yet seek to protect copyrights so that they get their large slice of someone else's talent

      --
      Art is the mathematics of emotion
    2. Re:"Copyright holders" don't give a fuck ... by kcbrown · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If you every created anything, you too are a copyright holder.

      Yeah, that's why I mentioned the "copyright holders" in the TFA in particular, but I suppose I should have been more clear that I'm limiting my comments to them, and not extending them to all copyright holders everywhere.

      In my humble opinion, copyright should be nontransferable, and should belong solely to the original creator of a work, or to every individual involved in the joint creation of a work. It's fine for the copyright holder(s) to exclusively license their work(s) to a corporation, even for free, but the right for them to terminate the license at will (despite any contractual wording to the contrary) should be built into law. This is the only way I can see copyright properly benefitting the original creators of a work. The system we have right now, where copyright is almost always immediately and irrevocably transferred to some corporation, is little more than a system of slavery.

      I suspect that the original authors of the Constitution saw it that way, too.

      --
      Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
    3. Re:"Copyright holders" don't give a fuck ... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 3, Insightful
      That means they're basically parasites. Parasites that, in this case, don't give a fuck about the host (the public) they prey upon.

      And that's mean to the parasites. Parasites actually do care that their host survives long enough to spread the parasite.

      This is, in part, the reason why extremely deadly diseases such as Ebola usually don't spread far: they kill their host far too quickly.

      The most "successful" diseases are those that merely inconvenience their host, such as for instance, the common cold.

    4. Re:"Copyright holders" don't give a fuck ... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Interesting

      if you are a creative person there is nothing wrong with trying to make a living from your cretions.

      Of course there is.
      It would be obviously wrong to point a gun at someone and make them pay for a copy, "or else."

      My point is that there is nothing wrong up to a point and then there is wrong.

      The debate is about where that point is when it goes from right to wrong. Some people believe that point is just short of pointing the gun, and some people believe that the point is all the way back at simply publishing the creation. A lot of people don't really know where they think the point is, just somewhere in between those two extremes and thus you get the constant debate, rehashing the same ideas over and over again.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    5. Re:"Copyright holders" don't give a fuck ... by hotdiggitydawg · · Score: 2, Funny

      Da, comrade!

      There, fixed it for you.

    6. Re:"Copyright holders" don't give a fuck ... by ultranova · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The most "successful" diseases are those that merely inconvenience their host, such as for instance, the common cold.

      Actually, the most succesfull parasites are those that figure out how to not only do no harm to their host, but to actually benefit it. Your stomach bacteria are a good example: a human will try to get rid of flu (by resting), while a human will try to keep his stomach bacteria healthy - since if he doesn't, his body will work worse than it does with them.

      The most succesfull parasites are those who stop being parasites and become symbiotes. Especially when we are talking about an intelligent host species, which might figure out how to get rid of inconvenient freeriders, but won't bother with things that won't bother them.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    7. Re:"Copyright holders" don't give a fuck ... by plate_o_shrimp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As long as they get theirs, that's all that matters to them.

      That pretty much sums up American society today: "I got mine, screw you."

      --
      This sig has exceed its monthly bandwidth allotment.
    8. Re:"Copyright holders" don't give a fuck ... by FireFury03 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      the right for them to terminate the license at will (despite any contractual wording to the contrary) should be built into law

      This could be very bad in some situations because it could be used by the copyright holder to hold a distributor to ransom.

      For example, you write a library of software functions. I build my own product on top of your library and buy a distribution licence from you. I'm now selling my product, which includes (and is intimately tied to) your library - you're probably getting a slice of the revenue too as part of the licence deal.

      Now, you decide you want more money - you terminate my licence (as the law you suggested would allow you to do) and then ask me for a lot more money in order to get a new licence.

      It's far too expensive for me to competely redevelop my product to either rely on another library or to develop my own library to do a similar job (not to mention possible software patent problems if I produce my own library instead of using yours), so I am now forced to pay you the crazy amount of money you're asking for.

      Similarly, if you wanted to put me out of business (maybe you want a slice of my market?) you could revoke my licence and I'd be truly buggered.

      Your idea is great if you're assuming the distributor is evil and the original copyright holder is not - unfortunately it seems more and more as if we have to assume everyone is evil until they prove otherwise. :(
      There have probably always been a lot of people abusing their power in an effort to make money, but increasingly it seems that those people have more and more power.

    9. Re:"Copyright holders" don't give a fuck ... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Informative

      I suspect that the original authors of the Constitution saw it that way, too.

      They did not. Copyrights were alienable under the Statute of Anne, under the state copyright laws prior to 1790, and under the first federal copyright act in 1790 (n.b. that we often look to the acts of the first Congress as instructive with regard to the meaning of the Constitution).

      The system we have right now, where copyright is almost always immediately and irrevocably transferred to some corporation, is little more than a system of slavery.

      Well, I can see that you haven't read 17 USC 203. And I bet you're unclear as to whether a work is a work for hire or not, and what that means (per 17 USC 201(b) and 101). And of course, any license is terminable provided that you're willing to pay the appropriate compensation; the law favors efficient breach. But mainly, I think you're crazy. There's no comparison to be made with slavery. No one is forcing artists to work under any conditions the artists are unwilling to agree to. If an artist doesn't like the deal he's offered by an employer, he can go elsewhere; he can self-publish; he can take up a totally different job.

      But if he makes a deal, even a deal that you feel is a bad deal, why should we not allow him to do it? It's not unconscionable. It's entered into willingly. And normally the only people that can escape contracts so easily are children, and artists shouldn't be treated as though they were children.

      I have a lot of problems with our copyright laws, but this sure isn't one of them. Hell, I would expand the availability of work for hire to any pre-creation agreement between the parties, and would get rid of termination (which the author can still try to include as a term in the contract, if the other side will agree to it). I'm just not paternalistic in my treatment of artists, I guess.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    10. Re:"Copyright holders" don't give a fuck ... by gd23ka · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Right on! Actually some of the most successful parasites ever, your Mitochondria have made themselves so indispensable like you wouldn't believe. Changing ordinary sugars into ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate) which is the standardized chemical fuel all your body's cell run on from muscle cells to those in your brain - without Mitochondria and the ATP they produce you would shutdown in seconds. Nowadays considered cellular organelles (functional subsystem of a cell) they have their own very own DNA (which is always inherited from the mother).

      "Copyright Holders", "RIAA/MPAA" and other evolutionary dead alleys will find themselves lacking symbiotic value and instead of having a vast and complex system built around them like Mitochondria they will find themselves despised by both of their hosts: the artists who create content as well as the consumers of the that content.

    11. Re:"Copyright holders" don't give a fuck ... by badmammajamma · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Yes, I'm only a copyright lawyer, what do I know?"

      You can be a copyright lawyer your whole life and never have to deal with the recording industry. Of course, if you do then you (along with the record company, producer, agent, managers, etc.) undoubtedly make more money off the art than the artist but I'm sure you're not in any way biased. :) Want to discuss the fairness of class action suits? Cuz I'm pretty sure we both know who makes all the money on that deal and what happens to the folks who opt out cuz they won't get shit if they win anyway. You can play legalease all day and their actions may be completely legal but it doesn't change the fact that to the average person, it's just a big fucking scam.

      Don't feel too bad though...you're just one of many in a long list of folks who don't actually produce anything for this country. You just suck it dry.

      *continues to wonder why the smart lawyer guy just doesn't get it...*

      --
      Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. -- H. L. Mencken
  2. The bottom line by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What you really need to keep in mind when talking about this is that the groundwork is already laid. The DMCA is law. What is being argued over now is the details of what types of media should be covered by exemptions. If you think that you are fighting over consumer rights, the DMCA is doing laps around you.

    1. Re:The bottom line by EzInKy · · Score: 2, Insightful


      The DMCA is law.


      The DMCA is BAD law and since I'm replying to the guy himself I'm going to us a bad analogy. According to "The Bible" killing first born children was a law at one time too.

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    2. Re:The bottom line by ozmanjusri · · Score: 3, Informative
      Could you provide a reference for that?

      Probably this one. Not exactly a law, but definitely god's will.

      "And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead."
      You'd be pissed of wouldn't you. It didn't matter how much goodness, love, charity or faith you'd demonstrated, if you were first out of that particular womb, you were cactus, even if you were a cow...
      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    3. Re:The bottom line by Casualposter · · Score: 2, Informative

      It was a punishment by god that the frist born of each family in Egypt should die. Exodus 12:29-30.

      The only way it is a "law" is if god's will is consider "law." HOWEVER, Herod a mortal king, ordered the deaths of children in Bethlehem, according to the Gospel of Matthew. In that case, it would have been a matter of law.

      --
      Creative Spelling Copyright (2002). May use without Persimmons
  3. In many countries... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    copyright infringement is already grounds for heftier punishment than some crimes against physical inviolability. What did you expect? He who pays the politician makes the laws.

    1. Re:In many countries... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 4, Funny
      copyright infringement is already grounds for heftier punishment than some crimes against physical inviolability. What did you expect? He who pays the politician makes the laws.

      And the logical conclusion to this is, that if you are caught red-handed violating copyright, you better punch, maim or kill the guy who caught you. You'll get a lighter sentence that way.

    2. Re:In many countries... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 2, Funny
      No. You'll get two sentences that way.

      The point is to make sure nobody can report on your copyright violation. So punching and maiming may not be enough ;-)

  4. Critical Infrastructure by Indy+Media+Watch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Systems which are considered mission critical or whose loss/damage/downtime could endanger human life fall into a category of their own. This category tends to have failsafe design safeguards built from the ground up.

    There is a reason air traffic control systems don't run Windows XP.

    For the same reason, I expect such systems would have a large sign hanging off the front of them saying "Do NOT use this system for playing your new Britney CD".

    I accept the argument he is making, however I believe the scenario is unlikely.

    --

    Indy Media Watch-Proctologist of the Internet

    1. Re:Critical Infrastructure by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well the answer is simple, you want drm, stick it on a specialist bit of external hardware, not on my general use computer, where the only rights management I care about if my user rights management (my box, my digital life, my privacy).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    2. Re:Critical Infrastructure by LParks · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It doesn't matter that the "scenario is unlikely." It is an unlikely scenario that you will be wiretapped without a warrant, but that doesn't make it any more just.

      The fact is that the scenario COULD happen where DRM takes down a machine that is needed to keep people alive. This is BS either way you cut it.

    3. Re:Critical Infrastructure by Matilda+the+Hun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It may be unlikely, but this is what these companies are arguing for -- "We don't want you messing with our DRM systems, because it might be holding control over your computer/network, and screwing with it might break your computer."

      You: "Wait, why would you have control over my computer? I don't want a screw-up with your DRM to mess up my computer!"

      Company: "That's why you shouldn't play with it! Our DRM would NEVER break unless you fool around with it. It's completely bug-free and hacker-proof."

      You: "Uh..."

      And as for it being unlikely, I direct your attention to a certain Sony-distributed rootkit that broke your computer if you tried to remove it on your own...

      --
      Tluin natha Linux xxizzuss uriu olt bwael mon'tun.
    4. Re:Critical Infrastructure by khakipuce · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One of the big issues with infrastructure kit is obsolescence. Twenty or thirty years down the line there are no spares available for the hardware, and the company that made it may have folded (and it is expected to go for this long and no it isn't PCs).

      So one solution is to write an emulator for the equipment that needs replacing and possibly run this on a rack mount "industial" PC. What's inside the PC? pretty much standard stuff, and in a few years I guess this may be forced to include DRM chips. Which either means ruling out this as an option, or doing extra validation to prove that the DRM hardware does not lead to unexpected results.

      I've seen this done with PC's to replace teletypes, PCs to replace tape drives, PCs to replace hardware montiors ...

      --
      Art is the mathematics of emotion
    5. Re:Critical Infrastructure by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is a reason air traffic control systems don't run Windows XP.

      Yes, because they run Windows 2000.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
  5. The scorpion and the frog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.
    The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.
    Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.
    "Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"
    "Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.
    "Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"
    Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"
    "This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"
    "Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.
    "Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"
    So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.
    Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.
    "You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"
    The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.
    "I could not help myself. It is my nature."


    This is a story often told in psychology classes. To understand the immutable nature of something is vital. There is no point intellectualising, making excuses and analysis, sometimes something just is what it is.

    For humanity it is necessary to recognise the intrinsic nature of capitalism . It is an unfettered force which puts the value of money and profit above life itself. There are too many examples and stories from reality which prove this time and again that we would be fools to ignore this force. Unless we take steps to moderate the present capitalist system a few unlucky people will be left sitting on a vast pile of gold upon the smoking remains of a planet .

    1. Re:The scorpion and the frog by timcam · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Good story, wrong lesson. The lesson is nature is nature and human nature is human nature. To deny it is to deny the sun and the earth. Stop living off others. You're making yourself miserable. Here's some homework for you:

      http://www.aynrand.org/

      or

      http://www.atlassociety.org/

      You are not going to change the frog, the scorpion or the human. And they are all beautiful. But please, if I am wrong, please let me know when you've convinced the scorpion to share his food, his recordings and his software with you.

    2. Re:The scorpion and the frog by gowen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bwah ha ha ha ha ha.

      Taking the works of Ayn Rand as a moral philosophy is right up there with treating the works of L. Ron Hubbard as a religion.

      Tell me, where do the 9/11 firefighters fit into Ayn's enlightened self-interest. Do you consider their self-sacrifice, and their attempts to save others, to be stupid, or just immoral?

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    3. Re:The scorpion and the frog by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You are not going to change the frog, the scorpion or the human.
      Perhaps, though no matter what, there is still hope. But at least we can - and should - build a cage for the scorpions.
    4. Re:The scorpion and the frog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How does "Growth rate" and "the ability to compete globally" benefit me?

      The US has a large number of people who are employed, but essentially living in poverty. In fact, the US has the highest child poverty rate of industrialised nations. There are people who have to suffer easily treatable illnesses because of the lack of affordable medicine. And Canada, France, and Denmark all have greater social mobility than the US.

      In "Socialist" Europe (where most people I know seem to be getting richer), we have restrictions on working hours, and at least 4 weeks off per year. But I guess living in a country where the rich are getting richer and the poor are going nowhere is better than a better quality of life.

    5. Re:The scorpion and the frog by MECC · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Its not really the fault of capitalism, as such. Perhaps the larger problem is that corporations are aritficial persons in the view of the law, with the full protections of the 14th amendment. They are legally persons, yet are bereft of internal moral codes and common senses. They have far more defacto rights that any human being could hope to have. They have never nor can ever shed blod for their country, and have no vested interest in the welfare of the society that lets them exist.

      People will always be greedy. Artificial people walking the earth immune from the realities of living a life is a new twist on things. Its no wonder that endangering human life is of no interest to them. Sadly, corporations don't need to be given the same rights as humans in order to be profitable or create jobs. They have nearly all the rights as you and I but one. The right to die. Give them that right, and see if things change.

      Or, go ahead and treat them just like a person. Next time one is one trial, give the corporate entity a psycological evaluation and see if they are fit to stand trial. Also see if, lacking any of the mental abilities that enable a person to be a positive member of society such as a sense of right and wrong or the intrinsic value of life, see if a guardian needs to be appointed to handle their affairs, just like any dangerously mentally ill psycotic person, including the capacity to enter into a contract. They like having the same rights and privileges as human beings, then judge them as people.

      I've had to provide care and restraint for psycotic individuals. They're just like corporations. Fine one minute, dangerous to all life around them them next.

      --
      "We are all geniuses when we dream"
      - E.M. Cioran
    6. Re:The scorpion and the frog by timcam · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Your disrespect surprises me. Ayn Rand has had a dramatic and positive impact on the world you enjoy today. L. Ron Hubbard? Was that a serious comparison? Tom Cruise and Isaac Hayes (Scientologists) are not Alan Greenspan and Ronald Reagan (fans of Rand).

      Once you do read up a little, you'll learn that fundamentally she illustrates simply that it is best if everyone chooses their own path and should not be forced to carry others.

      Despite your callow question about the 911 firefighters, I will give you the courtesy of a serious reply. The 911 firefighters are heroes for many things, which I'm sure we would both agree on, but also in an objectivist sense, for the integrity with which they honored their job.

      Read up some more. You'll be much happier.

      -Tim Campbell

    7. Re:The scorpion and the frog by syphax · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This a cute story, but it promotes a rather simplistic view of the world.

      What about the snake whose best friend is a hamster?

      --
      Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
    8. Re:The scorpion and the frog by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Funny
      treating the works of L. Ron Hubbard as a religion.

      I personally get all my philosophical and religious instruction from hack sci-fi writers. Just this morning, I sacrificed a goat to Harlan Ellison.

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    9. Re:The scorpion and the frog by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The essential paradox of the American liberals

      *EVERY* religious and political philosophy is filled with paradoxes.

      Look at the modern American conservative, trying to blend the wildly incompatible phliosophies of Christianity and capitalism.

      Look at Pauline Christianity itself, trying desperately to blend classic Hebrew religion with more sophisticated Greek and Roman philosophical concepts (a religion popularized by the very Romans responsible for crucifying its founder, no less).

      Look at communism, libertarianism, judaism, islam, etc., etc., etc. All have their paradoxes and problems. We humans are just really good at reconciling incompatible ideas and actions in our heads.

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    10. Re:The scorpion and the frog by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 2, Informative

      I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine who had a mother who was ill.

      She had plenty of money, and had to get her mother into either the Canadian or U.S. healthcare system. He primary concern was expediency. Her mother was not eligable for healthcare in Canada without paying out-of-pocket.

      She asked my advice as to what to do.

      I told her that if money was really not an issue, engage both systems simultaneously.

      The Canadian system admitted her faster...

      ...just offering a positive anecdote to refute your negative anecdote. Results vary dramatically depending on circumstances of course.

      Despite privatization, there's a problem in the U.S. system regarding pricing and expediency. The private system seems to have fueled a lawsuit-based alternative funding system, and the insurance companies seem to have too much influence in the system. I don't understand it, so I can't comment further.

    11. Re:The scorpion and the frog by HiThere · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A comment from a Doctor I visit (in the US). This is a paraphrase, so I'm not using quotes:
      Most doctors in this area are over 50, and few new doctors are coming in. The doctors who are here are retiring faster than new ones are showing up. The insurance companies are less and less willing to cover expenses. I'm not sure how much longer I'll be willing to put up with the increasingly worse conditions.

      Canada made a better choice. Possibly at the moment the systems are in a state of rough equality, but the Canadian system is relatively stable, and the US system is in the process of collapsing. More quickly, of course, in the poorer areas, but EVERYWHERE, because conditions are becoming so bad that doctors don't want their kids to be doctors.

      Then there's the problems that nurses are facing. No rational decision would cause one to become a nurse. Their situation is worse than that of the doctors, and they don't even get the "high status" part of the reward. They are also increasingly denied any opportunity to be aware that they are helping people, which is the main emotional energy that causes people to choose nursing rather than, say, real estate in the first place.

      Canada made the better choice. With a smaller investment they have arrived at a superior system. There may have been the cost of an initial period of lesser efficiency, but that period is ending, or, possibly, has ended.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    12. Re:The scorpion and the frog by zenhkim · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uh ...*right*. Ayn Rand was a genius. Check out her fan sites. Read her books. Adopt her philosophy.

      Didn't one of her books, The Fountainhead, have a main character named Rourke? Wasn't he the architect who designed a building, had it built, then went and *blew it up* -- because someone had tampered with his design?? Object lesson: it's okay to destroy a building with high explosives AS LONG AS YOU'RE REALLY PISSED OFF???

      Ayn Rand was a political refugee from Russia's communist revolution; she took her natural anger against what happened to her and went *way* beyond all reason. Her school of "Objectivism" is nothing but Social Darwinism under a different label -- the rich and powerful have what they have because of their natural superiority, and they are completely justified in what they do, if you buy her ideas. That's not a philosophy, that's a surrender to the worst in humanity -- unthinking, self-serving opportunistic exploitation of your fellow human beings, all for the sake of worshipping at the golden monied altar in the Church of The Dollar Sign. And the hymn they sing is a rewrite of the theme from "Billy Jack":

      Go ahead and rob your neighbor
      Go ahead and scam a friend
      Do it in the name of profit
      You're justified in the end

      It's people like you who pull stunts like the S&L crisis, Enron, and *the Sony DRM rootkit* -- all under the pretense that it's business as usual. What's amazing is that any intelligent person actually believes in this crap and will go through any amount of rhetorical contortionism to rationalize it. Just last year I saw a major newspaper (an infamously neo-con/libertarian publication) print a tribute to the life of Ayn Rand on the anniversary of her birthday, trying to paint her as some groundbreaking figure in American philosophy -- never mind the blowing up of buildings. On the other hand, I was amused at a small dig printed by one of the columnists:

      "Happy birthday, Ayn Rand. I would have gotten you something, but I'm too selfish."

      --
      "All hands, BRACE FOR IMPACT!"
  6. I'm a copyright holder too... by mwvdlee · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But I'd rather see DRM and DMCA gone!

    Practically anybody who's ever released anything into the world is a copyright holder, most of them just aren't that anal about users using their work.

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  7. Mr. President, we have a problem... by jettoki · · Score: 5, Funny

    The terrorists have open-sourced their WMDs, and the DRM on your BRR (Big Red Button) has expired. I've called an emergency meeting with Linus Torvald.

  8. It's all about money by NotAHappyCoder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This all comes down to money and the fact that so many people are very very greedy.
    Corporations fear that if they don't do everything to protect their precious products
    from tampering, they'll lose some serious money.

    We /. readers know that providing specifications and helping people to tinker with a product usually helps the company in the long run. It is very sad to see that
    this whole DRM thing has blurred the vision of so many managers out there and they
    just can't get it that by making non-restricted products you help yourself. *sigh*

  9. It would set a bad precedent by smchris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First you wedge in the "critical for life" exceptions and before you know it people will argue that voting machines should be open source.

  10. Begging the question? by Jivha · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While there is not an iota of love inside me for copyright holders, both the poster and the blogger are trying to stir up reader's emotions by their choice of phrases.

    The poster says "DRM more important than life or security" and the blogger's headline reads "Future DRM might threaten critical infrastructure and potentially endanger lives."

    I read the article that is linked to, and from what I could decipher of the legal wording from the RIAA is that they're afraid that until someone clearly defines "privacy or security" or even "threaten critical infrastructure and potentially endanger lives", they don't want to commit anything.

    Nowhere does it imply that they said DRM is "more important than life or privacy" but merely that "till you can define privacy, security etc., we don't want to commit".

  11. Why? by LParks · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Based on their track record, the Copyright Office will likely do what is asked by these corporations. However, I'm curious as to why? What does the Copyright Office gain by not putting in these safeguards? Who do they answer to? Are these corporations truly funding them? I know little about the Copyright Office mentioned in this article.

  12. Is this really a concern? by Hamster+Lover · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wouldn't the designers of any system entrusted to protect the lives of others automatically reject DRM as an elemnent of that system if it could prove to be a point of failure?

    I am not a system engineer, but I don't see how DRM would ever be considered in a system of this nature. I would expect that a lot of the components used in such systems would either be highly modified/customized off the shelf components or custom made.

    1. Re:Is this really a concern? by dwandy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Wouldn't the designers of any system entrusted to protect the lives of others automatically reject DRM as an elemnent of that system if it could prove to be a point of failure?
      ...yes, until your trusty sysadmin drops the latest Our Lady Peace - Healthy in Paranoid Times CD into the production server to help pass the weekend by. And then your production server is infected with DRM and you're fskered.
      Yes, this is a configuration/control issue, but if I had told you 5 yrs ago that audio CDs sold by a major international corporation would install back-doors, you would have told me I was crazy. I'm sure that plenty of sysadmin's have played audio CDs on the production box at one point or another...
      --
      If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
  13. Liability by Petskull · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If this gets voted in their favor, wouldn't they then be liable for damages incurred from their disruptive technology? Let's say that a new The Cure CD brings down a machine at a telco and then someone wasn't able to call 911. We have already seen that, if you 'Crunch Box' a whole area code, then you are responsible for losses incurred on account of the downed lines.

    Wouldn't this open the makers up for litigation given that this was the intended use of their product?

  14. Obvious conflict of interests by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    MY interest is my security and safety.
    THEIR interest is the security and protection of their property.

    I get to decide which hardware I buy and use. So MY interest will be the one deciding which hardware will be sold.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  15. It's fairly simple by petrus4 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Some of the people who want this technology (most of them in fact, I'd guess) are people who do literally value money more than life itself. They're the type who haven't learned what Cal Hockley did when he tried to buy a place on one of the lifeboats during the sinking of the Titanic; namely, that money isn't some kind of miraculous cure-all that can make them completely impervious to problems.

    So yeah...Money to them is more important than anything else. More important than longevity, more important than having edible food or breathable air, more important than people. (Including, if they were honest, their own loved ones)

    Reminds me of a businessman I heard about once who was interviewed about the cancer risk from mobile phone use. He said that even if there was a risk of brain cancer from using a mobile phone, he still would, because it was too important for, you guessed it, making money.

    That's the type of mentality we're dealing with here...the type that thinks that having money is literally more important than being alive to spend it.

  16. Re:"Copyright holders" by deanj · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Today they add almost no value to the economic equation. That means they're basically parasites.


    You're confusing individual copyright holders with the middlemen that some of them are tied to. Big difference.

    Take comic strips for example. The vast majority of new comic strips (within the last 15 years), have artists that own their own copyrights. (That didn't used to be the case).

    If you're saying the middle men don't add anything to the equation, well, that's wrong too. They do... it's just they don't add as much as they THINK they do.

    Again, comic strips... The syndicates that 50% of the sale. The other 50% goes to the author.

    Is that worth it? In this day and age on the web, hell no. In the past, when individual salesmen had to go around selling to each paper (and, yes, some still do that), then that's arguably with the "worth it" category, since that's how the newspaper business works.

    Some of the copyright holders are corporations themselves, which paid the salaries of the folks that wrote the software for the months/years it took to write that software. If you're saying THAT'S unfair.... well....
  17. Re:"Copyright holders" by kcbrown · · Score: 5, Informative
    You're confusing individual copyright holders with the middlemen that some of them are tied to. Big difference.

    No, I'm not. In the vast majority of cases, the copyright holder is the middleman. Most people who do creative work do so for someone else. The creator doesn't retain the copyright, the person they're doing the work for does.

    And for most individual creative endeavors, the copyright isn't owned by the creator, it's owned by the publisher. The assignment of copyright to the publisher has become a condition of getting paid at all.

    No, in the general case the copyright holder and the middleman are one and the same.

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  18. Freedom vs. security by jmv · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They say that those you will trade freedom for security deserve neither... Wonder what happens to those who will give up freedom and security at the same time?

  19. Always the way it goes by ajs318 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Capitalism and socialism are both means-oriented philosophies. That is, the means by which an end is achieved is considered more important than the end in itself. {This goes against the Principle of Equivalence, which states that "all means to the same end are equally valid"; its corollary is "means that are not equally valid serve different ends".}

    To a capitalist or a socialist, obeying orders -- even if the intended aim is not achieved -- is considered more important than achieving aims.

    If a high-ranking officer orders an NCO to lead troops to their certain death, but the NCO thinks on his feet and at the last minute finds a way to save the lives of his men and take the ground, he will be court-martialled and executed for gross insubordination. If the NCO instead leads his men to their death, he will be hailed posthumously as a hero, and the deaths recorded as tragic but necessary. Their deaths will not be considered the fault of the NCO for obeying orders, nor the HRO for issuing the orders, but the fault of the Enemy.

    It would be better for an entire city's worth of innocent civilians to die in screaming agony, than for the law to be broken. If the law says property is more important than life, then property is more important than life. In fact, US law is quite explicit that is is OK to kill a human being in order to protect {real, physical} property. {UK law stops just shy of this. In some parts of Continental Europe, a shopkeeper must actually allow a hungry person to shoplift food, or face penalties.} Killing to protect false, "intellectual property" is surely the next logical extension of this principle. The DMCA is there to protect intellectual property, which is considered equal to physical property and thus to be protected from harmful pirates. Any damage done in the name of protecting intellectual property is surely the fault of the pirates against whom that property was being defended, and not the fault of the defenders.

    That's the means-oriented view, anyway. If you take a more ends-oriented view like the filthy libertarians {disliked equally both by capitalists, for their perverse ideas about how some things can be more important than money, and by socialists for their ideas about the individual [individuals are an unhealthy concept] as an extreme case of a minority [minorities are to be protected]} then you probably think it is a little strange .....

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    1. Re:Always the way it goes by imadork · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It would be better for an entire city's worth of innocent civilians to die in screaming agony, than for the law to be broken. If the law says property is more important than life, then property is more important than life. In fact, US law is quite explicit that is is OK to kill a human being in order to protect {real, physical} property.

      Actually, that's not quite correct. This topic came up during a discussion I had recently with some lawyers over a man in the news recently who is facing murder charges for shooting a trespasser on his property. He claimed that he had a lot of problems with teens walking across his lawn in recent years, and the last onw to walk across just made him snap. The kid was, in fact, trespassing, but the guy is facing charges anyway.

      Generally, there must be a proportional response to any threat. A threat to property is not justification enough to kill someone, but it might be enough justification to forcibly stop him and remove him from the area using non-lethal force. In the U.S., there needs to be a percieved threat of violence associated with the situation to justify killing in self-defense.

      My understanding is that you basically get the benefit of the doubt in the U.S. if someone is doing something that is a serious threat (like invading your home) that could turn lethal, and you don't know their intentions. While you never have grounds to kill someone just becasue they're stealing your stereo, if you try to forcefully stop someone who you think is going to hurt you or your family and happen to kill them in the process, you probably won't be charged.

    2. Re:Always the way it goes by soloes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would have to respectfully disagree that capitolism is means oriented. Capitalism is ends oriented. Make money. Doesnt matter how you do it.
      I think you are confusing apolitical structure with an economic one. Following the law means nothing to pure capitalist. there should be no laws or rules regulating the economy in their opinion because the market will regulate itself. reach your end and if you are successful at it, repeat the things you did is the only law capitalism follows.

      --
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  20. Re:DRM - 1st step away from government copyrights. by EzInKy · · Score: 5, Insightful


    DRM is the act of a producer to make reproduction of their creation difficult. I don't see a problem with this any more than by putting a lock on my front door.


    You really don't see a problem with someone putting a lock on your front door and keeping the key for themselves?

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
  21. Bin Laden sues! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    In an unprecedented move, well-known terrorist Osama Bin Laden filed lawsuit in a federal court against the United States government for violation of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. In a press statement released by Al Qaeda this afternoon, Bin Laden alleges the infringement to have occured in the bomb defusal in the White House last week. Citing the anti-circumvention clause of the DMCA, Bin Laden notes that the bomb squad allegedly circumvented access controls designed to prevent illegal copies of the bomb ignition software.

    "We're hoping that this lawsuit will yield considerable damages and provide an injunction that will prevent future attempts to defuse bombs.", Bin Laden states from his cave "It's the only way to stop piracy."

    1. Re:Bin Laden sues! by soloes · · Score: 2

      In a recent press conference, Press Secretary Scott McClellan announced that, after careful consideration, the Pentagon and all of its duties would be outsourced over seas.

      A recent rash of off shoring, the practice of sending jobs overseas to save money has hit almost every area of the American economy. This recent move, however, is the first time that a whole government agency has been sent off shore. Figures show that over 225 billion dollars could be saved annually with this one action.

      2 Companies were in the running for the contract: Halliburton and AlQueda. McClellan said that when it all came down to it, "AlQueda just ran a more efficient proposal. "

      According to McClellan, "no Americans would lose their jobs in this move[people] would be relocated to other lacking areas of the government."

      Senator Joe Biden from Delaware was quoted as saying, "what the f*ck? I knew George was on drugs but this is insane." Later he retracted that statement and said, "I apologize for my earlier comments that were taken totally out of context. I disagree with this action was the jist of what I was trying to say oh screw it."

      In their first act as the decision makers for the Pentagon, AlQueda has ordered a full withdrawal of all troops from Afghanistan. Spokes person Mr. Bin Laden stated, "The removal of troops from Afghanistan will allow us to focus on targets of greater concern."

      When asked what these targets were, Mr. Bin Laden merely said, "I cannot comment on matters of jihad, I mean National Security."

      President George Bush has come out in support of the new pentagon stating, "Mr. Bin Laden has my full confidence."

      When asked about security concerns over the new ownership of the Pentagon, President Bush responded, ""I don't understand why it's OK for a American company to operate our military but not a company from the Middle East when we've already determined security is no longer an issue,"

      Upon hearing rumors that congress would try to block AlQueda from continuing to run the Pentagon, President Bush declared, "I will VETO any bill that attempts to hold up operations of AlQueda in the Pentagon."

      --
      New and improved Guilt. Now its alcohol soluble!
  22. Re:"Copyright holders" by jZnat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe a good solution to the copyright problem that you hinted at there is to not allow corporations/organisations/whatever to own a copyright on something. Only the original creator(s) of the work should get a copyright. Sure, people could license their copyrights to their company/whatever in a style similar to the Creative Commons Attribution license, but if an unspecific group of people were unable to own a copyright, the problems would slowly fix themselves.

    --
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  23. you know.... by MRoharr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...something is bothering you when it pops up everywhere you turn. The public needs to be more aware of the lasting implications of the DMCA. It should be a household word. Last evening i was flipping through the channels and it happened to stop on "Wheel-Of-Fortune", it was time for the prize puzzle, 3 consonants and one vowel. The lady choose D-M-C-A. She solved the puzzle and i don't even remember what it was. All i remember was her choice of letters. It stuck in my head. If this keeps up the future will not belong to us, but to corporations and those that govern. My 2 cents.

  24. Why is this any different from ordinary property? by Expert+Determination · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Eg. a bum on the street doesn't suddenly gain the right to take products from a food packed supermarket just because he's starving to death.

    --
    "The White House is not an intelligence-gathering agency," -- Scott McClellan, Whitehouse spokesman.
  25. US Democracy in a nutshell by Headcase88 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Homer: "Take a look at your beloved candidates, they're nothing but hideous space reptiles!" (unmasks them)
    Kang: "Yes, it's true, we're evil aliens, but there's nothing you can do about it. It's a two-party system! You'll have to vote for one of us!"
    Guy in Crowd: "Well I believe I'll vote for a third-party candidate!"
    Kang: "Go ahead, throw your vote away! Hahahahahaha"

    --
    "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
    1. Re:US Democracy in a nutshell by internewt · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Homer: "Take a look at your beloved candidates, they're nothing but hideous space reptiles!" (unmasks them)
      Kang: "Yes, it's true, we're evil aliens, but there's nothing you can do about it. It's a two-party system! You'll have to vote for one of us!"
      Guy in Crowd: "Well I believe I'll vote for a third-party candidate!"
      Kang: "Go ahead, throw your vote away! Hahahahahaha"

      This classic Simpsons quote has been modded funny (and it is), but its an incredibly insightful comment.

      It's the aliens that don't represent the majority of humanity that tell us that voting for the 3rd party is a waste. On the contrary, voting for the 3rd party is the only possible thing that can break the 2-party status quo that the US (and as a consequence the rest of the world) is suffering.

      People who echo the "voting for a 3rd party is a waste" are just repeating the GOP and Dems message, and it's the one thing the major 2 will always "agree" on.

      --
      Car analogies break down.
  26. Why is DRM on critical systems in the first place? by TheSkyIsPurple · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why does anything that requires DRM going to show up on critical systems? Why do you need to shoev that music CD into your Nuclear monitoring system?

    Or am I missing something?

  27. It's like saying "Politician" by rsilvergun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the kinda people who the word applies to have been so bad for so long that the word now carries a negative connotation all by itself. You don't call someone you like a "copyright holder" anymore then you call them a "Politician". You use artist, or Statesman, or something along those lines.

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  28. Re:Why is this any different from ordinary propert by level_headed_midwest · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, this is more like edible plants are patented and he has to break the law to grow some carrots by and for himself.

    --
    Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
  29. Shorter Ayn Rand by Von+Rex · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Be the biggest asshole you can possibly be to everyone around you at all times. Helping people hurts them. Hurting people helps them. Never feel shame. And always wrap yourself in a cloak of smug self-righteous virtue, even while you're kicking some poor helpless slob in the teeth.

    It's a really good philosophy for sociopaths.