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Murder, FFXI, and Ninety-Nine Nights

Gamasutra has a few great writeups of some of the sessions I didn't make it to. Murder, Sex, and Censorship covers some of the moral elements that go into game creation. Creating a Global MMO was a talk given by some of the folks behind FFXI, on the challenges of creating a multi-hemisphere online title. All about Ninety-Nine Nights was an examination of the character design put into the 'massive warfare' title for the Xbox 360. Interesting stuff. The morals session actually became quite heated, thanks to the presence of CA Assemblyman Leland Yee. From the article: "'How many people do you think have been hurt by video games? How many people have been helped by video games?' Gee asked. 'This technology will allow us to have a full spectrum chemist, or a full spectrum virus,' which school children, scientists, or doctors are able to experiment with in a safe environment. Gee also noted that, socially, legislators should care not only about keeping children from harm, but also about helping them."

20 of 31 comments (clear)

  1. Ninety Nine Nights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've played the demo, and it seems to be just a button masher. I expected a lot better from the Rez/Meteos guy. Maybe someone who's had more time with it can say if it has any depth/skill/strategy to it at all?

  2. Corrected link by Bluey · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here's the correct link to Creating a Global MMO.

  3. Double standards by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Think of the children" appearantly only applies when it doesn't cost money. Or, worse, time.

    It doesn't cost you money to go all crazy about "porn" or "violence" in games. You can hype yourself into hysteria and when the game creator finally gives in, you feel like you've accomplished something.

    At the same time you use TV and computer as a cheap replacement for a babysitter. Spending time with your kids? What a horrible idea! Spending time with your kids at something they want to do (like, say, playing computer games or surfing the 'net)? What an incredibly horrible idea!

    Instead you install net-nanny on your kids' computer and hope it keeps them away from the dreaded porn. And you make sure they don't get to play anything more violent than Barney in Teletubbyland.

    Then they go out and get their lunch money taken away...

    Prepare your kids instead! Life ain't fluffy and cute. If you keep them from learning and keep them gullible, you pretty much work into the hands of every con artist out there.

    Or why do you think scams are so efficient?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Double standards by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Prepare your kids instead! Life ain't fluffy and cute.

      There is no hunter. Little red riding hood gets herself and her grandmother killed because she talked to a stranger.

      The little mermaid DOESN'T marry prince charming, she turns to foam on the sea waves.

      The Iron Giant just gets blown up, he doesn't magically reassemble.

      Etc.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    2. Re:Double standards by mink · · Score: 1

      "The Iron Giant just gets blown up, he doesn't magically reassemble."

      But The Iron Man (Giant for Americans) does. He is alien tech on a level that seems like magic. The book(s if you want the Iron Woman) are quite good, and many things were not brought into the film.

      In fact the book starts with The Iron Man falling off a cliff and getting broken to pieces. He then starts re-assembling.

      Unlike your good example of The Little Mermaid, The Iron Man does not fail and die at the end of the story (it does not exactly have a perfectly happy ending either). I notice what looks to me to be reference to reincarnation in The Little Mermaid, and that was surprising when I first read the fairy tale again as an adult.

      If you want to get angry about the film changing anything then how about the part where the dragon-like creature comes form deep space and starts demanding people to eat.

      --
      Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
  4. Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The title should be something like "Why not ask the World of Warcraft developers about global MMORPGs?" but that's way too long to fit, so, what's there will have to do.

    FFXI has, according to the article, 500,000 subscribers. WoW has 6 million subscribers and is also a global MMORPG.

    So why FFXI? Because they were the only MMORPG company stupid enough to dump the entire world on the same set of servers. Technically challenging? Of course. Allowing people from China, Japan, North America, and Europe to play together on the same set of servers is an interesting technical challenge.

    It's also a completely worthless one. As most people know, very few people in America speak Japanese. Many people in Europe would also like to play with people who speak their native language. Which means that most players would like to be segregated by region anyway. (In fact, Blizzard had to add "Australia perferred" servers which are hosted in North America, since peak Australian hours are almost exactly opposite peak NA hours.) Dumping the entire world onto one set of servers is essentially worthless, since most players will attempt to segregate themselves back into regional groups anyway.

    Then you get the latency problem. Between the east coast and the west coast of the US I get, on average, anywhere from a 70ms to a 100ms ping time. Between me and Japan, it's considerably higher. (We're talking 200-500ms, well beyond reasonable.) With WoW, I get local servers and a good ping time. With FFXI, I'd get a lousy ping time because I'm connecting to Japan. (Well, maybe not directly to Japan. It's speculated that they use "edge servers" in each region which then use a single dedicated line back to the "core servers" in Japan, but the article never mentions that, and that's still an added hop.)

    Oh, and I wonder if anyone else found this amusing:

    They also focus on making game updates as smooth as possible by having the player download only the bare minimum of files required for functioning, as they want to make sure anyone with narrow bandwidth can still play the game. For any massive updates they just make sure to include it in the expansion packs.

    When released in NA, the game required a 7000-file download to update. The first new expansion pack in NA required a 1500-file download to update. The update servers are frequently down, and the entire thing is often a mess.

    Compare with World of Warcraft. They distribute a single update file via a custom BitTorrent client. The client has to download the torrent, and then the torrent downloads the potentially large update. Much less hastle than FFXI's "one file at a time" method.

    I really think I prefer WoW's approach to global MMORPGs far, far above FFXIs.

    1. Re:Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by patio11 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I bought FFXI totally because it gave me the opportunity to practice Japanese with real people without having to leave the country. Unfortunately, my textbooks hadn't included the phrase "punishing level grind which you have to repeat multiple times". But it was a worthwhile experiment, and while there was a certain segment of both the JP/NA (North America) playerbases that was rather unhappy with the arrangement and wouldn't dream of grouping with The Dirty Foreigners (TM) I did get in quite a few groups that had a great time despite language barriers. Incidentally, "You can practice English here without paying by the hour!" was a selling point in Japan.

      Now, the reason for an Aussie preferred server isn't that Aussies like playing with only Aussies. The reason for an Aussie prefered server is Aussies (and you can throw me in there, because now I live in Japan and are closer to their timezone than the US's) have peak playing hours which are waaaaaaaaaaay off the American ones, and when WoW is in its MMORPG moments you need a bunch of people playing together to make it fun. For example, our weekday raids last four hours starting at 1:00 AM in the morning California time, and require 20-40 people. Or, much more irksome, PVP starting up on a server requires several dozen players simultaneously online, attentive, and desiring PVP. Designating a server as Aussie preferred just lets everyone know "Hey, if you go here you can find people in your time zone".

    2. Re:Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by MMaestro · · Score: 1
      As most people know, very few people in America speak Japanese. Many people in Europe would also like to play with people who speak their native language.

      Says who? The only reason you hear WoW players complaining about it so much is because theres no built-in translator function so if you can't speak English, you're automatically labeled a gold farmer.

      In fact, Blizzard had to add "Australia perferred" servers which are hosted in North America, since peak Australian hours are almost exactly opposite peak NA hours.

      Or maybe Australians got tired of playing in a game world where it was virtually constantly night time because the in game clock was set for North American players only.

      Between the east coast and the west coast of the US I get, on average, anywhere from a 70ms to a 100ms ping time. Between me and Japan, it's considerably higher.

      The FFXI servers are located in Southern California, not Japan.

      The update servers are frequently down, and the entire thing is often a mess.

      WoW updates have been known to take down the entire system for days at a time.

      Compare with World of Warcraft. They distribute a single update file via a custom BitTorrent client. The client has to download the torrent, and then the torrent downloads the potentially large update.

      Except even then it doesn't work because you have MILLIONS of people downloading the torrent at once. Mirror sites don't work properly either because updates are often times 100+ MBs, so the whole game is more or less shut down everytime theres an update. At least FFXI has the "We have to cater to the lowest demominator, the PS2" reasoning, what reasoning does WoW try using?

    3. Re:Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by Barny · · Score: 1

      For a start, WoW just sold the rights to have servers in other countries (check out the problems they are haveing in china with lag) and, as others are pointing out, some of the best and most rewarding play in mmog can be with people you don't know, i remember learning all the nasty words from some friends who played DaoC (/wave siberia) and of course had a great time doing it.

      Another truely global MMOG is Eve online, one server, all nations (heck, it isn't even based in NA), theres sometimes a language barrier, but you work to reduce that.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    4. Re:Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by dracocat · · Score: 1

      Let me guess, you had a bad experience mixing with other nationalities as a kid and you had a bad experience with FFXI?

    5. Re:Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      RE the FFXI update servers:

      Which version are you playing? I've been playing the PS2 version since it's launch in the US and haven't had any trouble with updates at all. I'm on broadband though.

    6. Re:Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      I will say this about he communication issues in FFXI. It's quiet compared to the other PS2 MMORPG EQOA. There's little group chatter at all, because of the language barriers. And there's little just sitting around in Bastok just kibbitzing, via say or shout. In some ways FFXI is less fun than EQOA because of the lack of that chatter.

      I personally think putting PC and PS2 players together was a good idea, but mixing Japanese, American and European players was a noble experiment, but a failed one.

    7. Re:Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by Reapman · · Score: 1

      Each to their own, can't argue with the success of WoW, but I hardly consider FFXI a dismail experimental failure you seem to feel it is. I rather enjoy the fact that I can talk to someone in japan and actually COMMUNICATE WITH THEM. Unlike WoW, where all you can do is /spit or whatever the command is (that's considered global how?). I can log into my FFXI server at pretty much anytime of day and instead of finding a population 1/2 what it normally is, it's always roughly the same level.

    8. Re:Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by Troglodyt · · Score: 1

      But why ask Blizzard? They didn't go and make a global mmo now did they?
      I like how I can party with people from all over the world when grinding, it makes it more interesting. The ping is just FUD, it works fine for a MMORPG. The updates are a little bit messy, but that has nothing to do with the global thing here.
      Twice each month I can't get into the game for patching reasons, how often do you have to wait in line to get to grind in WoW?

    9. Re:Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by mjhacker · · Score: 1

      You, sir, are an ignorant WoW fanboy. Your response is -exactly- typical of retarded FFXI bashers.

      And exactly what do you have against Japanese people? Are you some kind of bigot? I can communicate with them just fine. In fact, I find the exchange rather enjoyable. It sure as hell beats talking to little 13 year olds on WoW who spam "n e 1 wan 2 dual me? lolz" I swear to God that Blizzard must've gathered the stupidest people on the planet and gave them free copies of WoW and said "Go forth, little fanboys, and taint this perfectly good game with your immaturity and lack of grammatical or typing skills."

      About latency? FFXI's servers are FAR, FAR more stable than WoW's. Besides that time almost a year ago when SE was having DDoS attacks from China (you can also thank them for most of your 6 million WoW subscribers, by the way), I have never been disconnected or had any problems unless it was on my end. I'd rather be having a 200-500ms ping and always be guarenteed a connection than have WoW ping and -still- see people warping around like they were on dial-up. I'm not even mentioning the queue problem.

      FFXI is cross-nation, cross-platform, and cross-language. WoW doesn't even come close to that versatility. Maybe that's why FFXI is thought of first when one thinks "global MMO." Because all I can think about when I think about WoW are stupid fanboys.

    10. Re:Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by Reapman · · Score: 1

      Eh? Crappy? I just organized an Optical Hat run with French, English, and Japanese players, and was quite succesful. How'd I do it?

      {Optical hat} {Do You Need It?} 14/18 {White Mage} {Can I have It}

      Wow, that is such a crappy setup, I mean, how can ANYONE understand that, when each of those words is translated into the language of the player.

      Sorry, but from someone that's actually played this game quite well, the Auto Translator while not perfect does the job, does the job better then any other game out there that I've seen, INCLUDING WoW.

    11. Re:Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by Reapman · · Score: 1

      Further to add, for tank and pull there's {Shield}{Party}, or just {provoke}{Can I have it?} and {Fishing}{Monster}, I've seen both English and JP's use those terms. perfect? no, usable? hell yes. Have fun talking with your Japanese / French co-players in WoW. Oh wait, don't they have seperate servers for different countries?

      {Take Care!}

    12. Re:Why not ask WoW about global MMORPGs? by mjhacker · · Score: 1

      I won't say that you didn't make good points, AC, but when I said "cross-language" I really meant that you can communicate with people from an entirely different language. WoW has no translator, and it never will. It is not global because while everyone around the world might play, you cannot communicate effectively with those people, so it makes no difference anyway. You could translate the game into freaking Latin, but there's nothing impressive about it unless you had an English-to-Latin translator.

      Good job, AC, you managed to defend World of Warcraft without sounding like a fanboy... not.

  5. Re:Mod Parent Up by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    I've been accused of stating the obvious before. I know it's obvious (at least for me, it is), but since it is, why can still so many people not see it?

    Maybe because it sure is comforting for the own consciousness. Neglecting your kids isn't something you should do as a responsible parent. Now, it takes a lot less energy and time to get hyped up about something than it takes to actually do something sensible with your kids. Unless you do it with some efford, but then it feels like you're REALLY doing something.

    Unlike when you, say, play some game with your kids. That's not really something. That's just playing.

    But when you go out and rally some other parents behind you (who, in turn, take this as the cheap exit in their attempt to be a "good parent"), you feel in charge. You're moving something. Where, why or how soon doesn't matter anymore, as long as you got the feeling you're doing something GOOD for your kids.

    That your kids need something completely different, namely YOU being there for them, listen to their problems (the real ones, not the ones you imagine), that doesn't matter anymore. After all, what do your kids know, huh?

    Concerned parent coming through, who cares about collateral damage?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  6. Phantasy Star Online had good region handling by Myria · · Score: 1

    PSO had a good way of handling regions. There were servers that were located in each region (and they were clearly labeled). However, you could travel to them whenever you wanted.

    This lets you stay with people that speak your language, while at the same time being able to go to other regions whenever you want to.

    This is out of the question with World of Warcraft, because Blizzard has a huge interest in keeping them separate. The Chinese version is *much* cheaper than the American version, and American players would flock to the Chinese payment system the instant they could do that and still play with other Americans.

    (There is also the problem of gold farming, but because so many people have a racist viewpoint on it I'm not going to bother discussing that.)

    Melissa

    --
    "Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager