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Electrical Noise Causing Physiological Stress?
el johnno writes "The Globe and Mail is reporting on possible physiological problems caused by so-called 'dirty electricity.' Poor power quality caused by electrical feedback and harmonics from consumer electronics are cited as a possible cause of various 'physiological stress' problems. While previous research in this area looked for connections between EM fields and cancer, some research is now looking into possible connections to fatigue, headaches, depression, and other symptoms. From the article: 'If electricity were flowing in a constant way, most people's bodies would likely adapt, but with all the interference from modern devices, the resulting fields are too variable for people to get used to.'"
Now I know why I get headaches and feel generally lousy at work. I assumed my job sucked but now I know it's just bad electricity.
Does that mean we've got to don tin foil gowns now?
[blockquote]He began researching the topic when a neighbour expressed the belief that electricity was dangerous. In an act of desperation brought on by constant pain, he did something he initially thought was off-the-wall. He spent $1,000 on filters that, much like surge protectors on a computer, clean up fluctuations and surges in the electricity flowing in the wires around his home.[/blockquote] It never occured to him that it might be about $1,000 cheaper to turn off his electricity for a day or two and see how he felt?
Making you think you're crazy is a billion dollar industry.
'If electricity were flowing in a constant way, most people's bodies would likely adapt, but with all the interference from modern devices, the resulting fields are too variable for people to get used to.'
It's a plot by the Edison company to bring back DC power!
Luckily I'm wearing my AFDB.
Of someone else who thought strange things were happening around him:
I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love...Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I-I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women, er, women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake...but I do deny them my essence.
(Now compare this to: Mr. Byrne also noticed another odd health effect after he cleaned up his power, convincing him that electricity was at the root of his problems. Both he and his wife suddenly began to sleep more soundly and his dreams became "incredibly real and very vivid.")
I guess it doesn't matter if the field is intentional or not. Both WiFi and some cell phone traffic makes me physically sick over the course of the day. In some cases I can even tell if the router is on or not.
Before you laugh, I've had one job where there were two cell repeaters in the building plus an extensive wifi network. There were some rooms where my eyes would water if I entered them, and at the end of each day I'd sit in the car for 10 minutes to "detox". Didn't seem to bother anyone else.
They also installed a cell tower about 100 yards from my apartment last fall. For the remaining 2.5 months that I lived there, I could barely think and it effectively knocked 2 hours off my sleep. I.e. if I slept for 8 hours it would feel like i slept 6 (I usually turn off everything when I go to bed, too. No computer, no cell).
A running computer does the same, but the dose is a lot smaller. For this reason I only use laptops now (lower power usage). I still hate computer labs.
So yeah, this stuff is no joke.
boldly going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse
"'If electricity were flowing in a constant way, most people's bodies would likely adapt, but with all the interference from modern devices, the resulting fields are too variable for people to get used to.'"
Call this science? what a load of bollocks. This is what you get when you need to print a newspaper every day.
There are existing cases to show that bombarding individuals with various frequencies of sound can have adverse effect. In some tests, using sound-waves beyond the human range of hearing still induced many dementia-like effects over time.
This would probably be the opposite of the effect many try to achieve by adding "soothing" environmental sounds (like water from those little water fountain things)... unpleasant noise, even noise that doesn't consciously register, may cause behavioral, mood, or personality alterations.
I know that I find myself rather irritated when I hear the whine of a monitor or TV (bad capacitors). Many people can't hear the sound at all without it being pointed out, but it is something that drives me crazy. In the case of devices that have been ready to go due to caps, I myself may not hear anything but at times I could swear I *felt* the damn thing going...
To summarise it, what if stress and depression arise from chronic overuse of the brain? Information overload and lack of sleep could be the real culprits. Think about it.
Just wondered - 50Hz in the UK, 60Hz in the US, probably other frequencies elsewhere. Voltages: much higher in the UK. Perhaps someone should do a study into whether the problem is worse at higher or lower frequencies - maybe, like with sound, some frequencies are euphonic and others not...??
:-)
Mind you, maybe it's just the annoying hum of transformers that's getting everyone down. I know I hate alarm clocks which hum - I once had to create an isolation platform out of an old face-cloth, a book and some cut squash-balls to minimise the annoying hum from an old alarm I had (whilst I was a very poor student). Mind you, I eventually sorted that problem out by blowing it up by connecting a 90wpc stereo amplifier to its speaker (don't ask - it was an experiment, ok?) and fried the lot
John
If electromagnetic fields at the sort of levels we have in our
enviroment really harmed people then as soon as a bolt of lightning
went off in a nearby storm all these "victims" should keel over and
die given the amount of EM power a single bolt puts out. But you
never hear someone saying "storms make me ill" (unless they got a direct
hit of course!). Far more trendy to make out they're some victim of
modern techno society so they can either kids themselves its someone
elses fault they're ill (and nothing to do with hypocondria or some
other mental condition) or so that they can jump on the compensation
bandwagon.
It's when the bill comes in that I get headaches and become depressed.
brain cloud
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Sean Ellis
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They're hiding the cure for NAS! Quick, Ice-T, broadcast it to the whole world!
Put stories like this in the comedy section, where they belong.
"Physics is to math as sex is to masturbation." -R. Feynman
Sure, it reeks of pseudoscience, but from my personal experience I can see two ways "dirty electricity" could matter.
1) I lived in a place that had really crazy electrical wiring. As in, about every month or so all three lightbulbs on our cieling fan would all blow out at the same time. If I kept my CRT near one wall, the pattern would make the swimming noises you sometimes see if you put an electric fan near a TV. It made me too nauseous to use it for any extended period of time. Solution? Moved my damn computer to another wall (actually in front of a glass wall -- no EMF interference there).
2) Some fluorescent lights drive me batty. Many lights flicker at double the frequency of the power supply (60hz x 2 = 120hz), which is bloody human noticeable, regardless of how many scientists cast doubt on this. Come to my karate class, wave your hand in front of you, and you'll see multiple images of your hand. Or sometimes no intervening images at all on a punch if you throw it fast enough, which probably makes you look a lot faster than you really are. If you had a "dirty" power supply, I could see it perhaps making a difference to fluorescent lights that are tied to the cycle of the power supply.
No matter how advanced we become technologically, we still cling to ridiculous superstition. It used to be sacrificing goats to prevent crop failure, now it's mysterious black boxes to "clean" our electricity. It's all about trying to gain a semblance of control over the events that effect us greatly in
our day to day lives, but that we cannot influence.
(One common thread in all these alternative therapies - at the end of the chain, you have someone raking in the bucks.)
This world needs a little more rational thinking. Either that, or some good homeopathic remedies for gullibility.
I don't normally bother replying to ACs, but I'll make an exception. The article lacks evidence, a hypothesis for causation, uses inaccurate analogies, uses pseudo-scientific terms ('clean' electricity?) and ignores the other massive sources of RF interference in the home such as cars driving past.
NTSC television uses a 15KHz horizontal frequency that audiably generates a 15KHz tone. The pitch is so high that most people really hear it like you would a baby crying, but they just sense it as being there. To me, televisions sound similar to ringing in the ears. High audio frequencies are very directional, and thats why you can always seek out the source.
Capacitors can also audibly resonate. When I was a kid, I used to build circuits with a little radioshack breadboard. One of the circuit projects consisted of making a cap buzz -- its very simple to do, especially on accident. Given the construction quality and engineering of cheap electronics these days, a buzzing cap wouldnt be too surprising.
I'm sorry, but you've just completely bought the snake oil. There are *no* controlled studies showing that low level EM has these kinds of effects, there are *no* studies showing a correlation between living near pylons and cancer or other diseases, there is simply *no* concrete evidence for any this. Experiements haven't disproved it? They haven't shown any reason to believe it's so. Experiments haven't disproved that we're all followed by clouds of invisible, undetectable green fairies, either. No matter how much you insist "It's so! It's so! It's obvious!" it is *not* obvious, and there is no reason for assuming it is so. Good luck on your NIMBY quest, which if carried to its obvious conclusion *will* cost lives--the services provided by electricty save lives every day.
Chris Mattern
That is EM radiation, but not something that's affecting you. The shielding in computer audio is usually non-existant. In the tight spaces of a laptop, this gets even worse. On my laptop you can "hear" the IR device giving out light. ;-)
Claiming that one can not only directly feel weak fast changing EM fields (light and IR heat excluded!) but no less then also feel the difference in their spectral distribution is just too much of a quackery!
OTOH, he may be honest but barking at wrong tree. When electric power is down, it is not surprising to feel a relief.
Now, there, I am probably not the only one who can say that prolonged exposure to various electric equipment produced, barely audible, sounds (especially high pitch, although hum too) make me feel some of the alleged symptoms. Right now, I hear quite loudly my and/or my coworkers CRT monitor(s) (high voltage transformer ferrite core - magnetostrictive material) and it gives me very unpleasent feeling in my neck. Similar goes for cooling fans hum. And, last but not least, most (cheap) capacitors' dielectrics are piezoelectric materials, so it may happen that some of the HF noise that came from mains "beats" with circuit-generated noise and result is sometimes in audible range.
In last century (give or take a half of century) the noise signature has changed greatly. We have not adapted to that. It seems that authorities (lawmakers) are not aware of magnitude of stress that is imposed on us by noise which is not high in loudness, but just constant and unpleasent/annoying.
Better understanding of the noise phenomenon, better design of electric (electronic) equipment and better health standards should make things bareable. Before anyone invests grands into mains filtering, they should consider good antiphones (both earplugs and earshells), better acoustic insulation for equipment suspected of producing noise and as much time spending outdoors, as far from "funny" sounds as possible.
Oh, and don't forget the varying ages, conditions, and characteristics of the different distribution systems.
I am not suggesting you buy into the articles every claim, or even that any of it is "true" in the end, but to be so dismissive in the face of such complexity is almost antithetical to the basic tenants of science upon which many of you are basing your derision.
"It is more than obvious now that we there is a serious problem with some people having a suceptability to certian frequencies and that those frequencies may not be the same for everyone affected."
So, since it's more than obvious (huh? What is "more" than obvious?) you should have no trouble providing the peer reviewed research.
The fact that you've assumed something is more than obvious, despite a dearth of supporting research, calls your motives into question.
"The fact that experiments may not show true correlation for specific frequencies does not disprove the problems."
Really? I thought that's exactly what they showed. Silly me.
How can we take you seriously when you dismiss the research you don't like and drawn a conclusion you do like (based on NO research) all in the same post.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
- If it were true you'd expect stronger fields to make a bigger effect than miniscule ones.
- Therefore driving past a 500,000 watt radio or TV transmitting antenna should cause much much much greater symptoms than a 0.0000001 watt emissions from "dirty power". No such effect.
- People that are exposed to high EM fields, such as airport workers, tower light replacers, cell site testers, plasma physicists, industrial RF welders, TV technicians, walkie-talkie testers, they should all be really sick. Like 100,000 time ssicker than the average Joe or Jane Doe. They're not.
- At the neurological level, the voltage spikes from your nerves are 1,000's of times a bigger EM field than anything from outside your body. It's hard to imagine how a signal that's much weaker than your nerve impulses can have a noticeable effect.
- EM fields includes light, particularly sunlight. Sunlight hits you with almost 1,000 watts per square meter, many powers of ten greater than any other EM field, and most people think sunlight feels *good*, not bad.
Too many basic objections to this idea. Move on.Read this
. html
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger
Especially this part, in the FIRST PARAGRAPH
"Over a scratchy speaker, a researcher announces, "Jack, one of your electrodes is loose, we're coming in." The 500-pound steel door of the experimental chamber opens with a heavy whoosh; two technicians wearing white lab coats march in. They remove the Ping-Pong-ball halves taped over my eyes and carefully lift a yellow motorcycle helmet that's been retrofitted with electromagnetic field-emitting solenoids on the sides, aimed directly at my temples. Above the left hemisphere of my 42-year-old male brain, they locate the dangling electrode, needed to measure and track my brain waves. The researchers slather more conducting cream into the graying wisps of my red hair and press the securing tape hard into my scalp."
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
Towards the end of the article, they note that 50% of the people in a supposedly blind test noticed improvements when EM filters were in place. That means that 50% did not notice improvements. Or, put a bit more plainly, the results were indistinguishable from random coin flips. (Of course we'd need more information about the design of the test to understand the results that were reported, but I find the result less than believeable.)
Another indicator that this article has to be taken with a huge grain of salt: the only experts whom the article cites as opposed to the results of the research are the representatives of the utility companies. This implies, of course, that the only opponents to this viewpoint have an economic agenda.
I expect to hear more about this new malady. The first wave will be a proliferation of quack devices to "filter out harmful harmonic energies." The second wave would be pointless regulations imposed by local governments. The third wave may very well be lawsuits against utilty companies for harming the US populace...
Driving to work some months ago I noticed the guy in the car next to me had a wire pyramid on his head. I thought that was a bit odd, but I think he had it all figured out...focus the BAD EMF and relay it to the alien mother ship to thwart their assault.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Oh sure...the cure for N.A.S. is...drumroll please...go for a friggin' walk!!!
Robert Heinlein wrote a novella titled "Waldo", which nailed this possibility sixty years ago. In the story, power transmission is by radio, a la Tesla. One of the keys of the story is a general rundown in the physical health and vitality of younger people due the the EM interference in synaptic communication. Widespread lethargy and weakness resulted from the saturation, but no one noticed but one doctor, Waldo's, who wore a lead-lined trenchcoat to shield himself. He was considered an eccentric.
Waldo himself was an MD patient so weak that he built himself a satellite to live in so that he could move about under his own power in microgravity. He also diagnosed the problem, created a solution, and rolled up some bucks, so there's Heinlein in a nutshell.
Heinlein wasn't trying to predict anything, but to hit a target at sixty years, now that's good.
Get a program called SPECLAB, hook up a few hundred meters of coiled cable and plug it into the mic socket. Now witness the 15KHz tone of TV's in a lush waterfall pattern. It's a bit like the matrix, I can tell when a train goes past on the line a few hundred meters from my house, when someones using a drill in my street etc etc.
See here for more info: http://www.vlf.it./ Check out their Unexplained signals gallery, much fun. Just watch out for those russian ZEVS transmissions, I could go on for hours about it so.....
Cheers!
For just $59.95, I will sell you a magnetic bracelets that will protect you, as well as a quartz crystal neckless that will discharge "bad energy"!
I garantee that my solution is based on the same rigorous scientific research, and same theoretical underpinnings as the "science" in the linked article!
But seriously though, between some people wanting to teach "Intelligent Design" in schools, to people complaining about "bad vibes" coming from their toaster, to the unreasonable fear of nuclear technology, to the unreasonable fear of GM foods, to people wanting to ban research on stem cells, and the whole advent of all kinds of crazy "alternative medical treatments" like inner body massage, or yogurt enemas, or "color therapy" or whatever... the newfound popularity of fundamentalist Christianity or fundamentalist Islam. the proliferation of TV psychics.
Doesn't it seem like the public is become completly anti-science and anti-rationality nowadays? People are believing in all kinds of crap that wouldn't pass the laugh test 20 years ago, and now people take this stuff seriously? And it doesn't seem to be any one political group, or religion, or country - I could understand if it was just one group of ludites or reactionaries doing it - but it seems universal! What the hell is going on?
The United States uses 120 volts, not 110 and has for some time. Old tube amplifiers have troubles due to the higher voltage.
Europe used to be 220 except the UK which was 240, now they are all moving to 230 (which is bad news for the UK - as higher voltage is more efficient, and being exactly twice the US is more convienient).
Frequency is kept regulated within very narrow bands, variations can disrupt the grid (parts of the grid need to be in phase and on frequency with each other to be joined - else huge currents flow - plus anything that was even trying to lag or lead from the rest of the grid would cause problems), also, clocks use the frequency for timekeeping, so even though a drop to 59 Hz in the US would still run most things just fine, over one day a clock would lose 24 minutes, hardly acceptable. Someone at MIT (I think) put a frequency changer before a classroom clock and was making class shorter and shorter each day to drive their prof batty.
100 volts in the US is way out of spec, 108-132 is the "acceptable" range, at 100 volts motors would be getting damaged or not run right, I'd be screaming at the power company if it was me getting that, computers would possibly have problems, would likely use more current to keep up the wattage, which could result in a positive feedback loop - if enough of the draw is such devices, less voltage = more current = less voltage until something gives way.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!