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Recommendations for Graduate Programs?
xblanksx asks: "I am a soon to be college graduate and I have been looking into graduate programs pertaining to computer forensics and computer crime investigation. So far the only program I have been able to find is the 'High Technology Crime Investigation' program offered through GWU. Since I am finding it rather hard to find any other programs, what other graduate programs might be out there pertaining to computer investigations?"
http://main.uab.edu/show.asp?durki=69261n tent/degrees/ACAD_PROG_71.cfm
http://www.graduate.ucf.edu/CurrentGradCatalog/co
These were just on the first two pages of a google search for "computer forensics graduate school". You couldn't have possibly looked that hard.
If you're interested, drop me an email, or contact the head of the lab.
By no-means am I trying to demean you or your goals (first year chem grad-student), but that is very much a niche sounding field. Personally, I would go to a FBI field office and ask them, tell them what you want to do, and unless you find an ass they'll probabbly help you (as it can help them).
Also, I saw ITT-Tech advertising with just such a program, so that might degrade your college-graduate status. (Damn it, that piece of paper is WORTH SOMETHIN')
Frankly, I think that the much-bally-hoooed "age of digital warfare" has been upon us, but we just see it as furniture. Spyware and malware is or should be illegal, finding the perp should be an FBI enforcement issue. I doubt highly that terrorist organizations are sitting on thier collective laurels with respect to digital and information warfare. I'm SURE the army has 'information warriors' in thier propaganda arm.
Anywho, best of luck to you my fellow Gen-Xer (Are we still called that? Or maybe echo-boomer).
--sig fault--
If you're fresh out of college, I suggest hunting for a job. Work in the IT field for a while-- try to get an internship or work on the business side. Not sure what the job market looks like for new grads these days, but I know it's better then a few years ago.
School is fun, but you need some real world experience in order to function in this world. Universities tend to be a bit isolated with their approach to things, and their teachings don't necessarily reflect reality.
If you go straight to grad school, there's a big risk that you'll spend $40,000 and fail to focus on the right skills.
After a few years out here, you'll have a *much* better idea about what sort of program you want to go into, and you will be wayyyy more motivated when you are actually go back to grad school.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
You could check out some of the schools which the NSA reccomends for security in general. They have a list of National Centers of Academic Excellence in Information Assurance Education (CAEIAE). The link is http://www.nsa.gov/ia/academia/caeiae.cfm
There's no place like ~/
What are you looking for in a graduate program? If you are looking for a bunch of classes to teach you computer forensics, I'm not sure where to direct you. I think that's a little too specialized for most graduate programs to meet. If you are looking to conduct research into better ways of doing computer forensics, then I am willing to bet that most good computer security groups would love people working on that. You can look at schools with good computer security research groups like Berkeley, MIT, Cambridge, Princeton, Rice, UCSD, etc.
I spent the last year doing a graduate program search (for geography, not CS, but same things apply), so the tips are fresh in my mind.
There are two schools of thought on how to search for a grad school. The first is to find a professor that you like and then look at the program. The best way to do this is to look through all the papers that you've written as an undergrad and look for the names that show up often in your bibliography. These are people who are interested in what you like. Chances are, they are surrounded by other people doing what you like. Take a look at the program that they teach in, do they offer classes that you like, are other people publishing things that interest you. The danger here to two fold. The first is that the person who you like is a jerk in person, you can find that out by corresponding with them by e-mail, see if they pay attention to you and treat you with respect. Ask your current professors about the person, most academic fields are pretty small, and word gets around. If you ever visit the campus, talk to their grad students and other people in the program. This is the best approach to take if you plan on either doing a ph.d, which is mostly working with an advisor one-on-one, or plan on staying in the same place for both masters and ph.d. One last hint, make sure they'll be staying at the institution, I almost got burned on this one.
The second school of thought, better if you're getting a masters and then moving into the private industry, is to find a program that interests you. Since you seem to have tried this, I won't add much more here except to say that I hear at Carnage Melon has a good computer security program, not sure if its what you're looking for though.
Sleep is for the weak!
As far as employability is concerned, investigative agencies are going to be more concerned about coursework rather than a title on your degree certificate stating, "Computer Forensics" or "Computer Investigations". You're better off concerning yourself with getting a masters in computer science, and taking some additional courses in the criminology and/or law departments at whatever university you end up going to, or vice versa. Computer forensics/investigations is still a relatively new field (not to mention specialized), so the lack of degrees with that title on it is to be expected.
Purdue University's Center for Education and Research in Information Assurance and Security.
...
http://www.cerias.purdue.edu/
It's a well-known and top-notch program, one of the first of its kind.
Its head is Eugene Spafford, who seems to be well-known in tech circles and is part of the Center's claim to fame.
CERIAS offers, I think, both masters and PhD's.
I looked at it a few years ago, but I'm sure that it's still worth looking into. I think that their site recently was dugg for some security checklist or something
Exactly. I'm in the same position. And, as other posters have stated, your program desire is a little too specific. A Masters in CS would be the best bet IMHO, with a focus on computer security...do your dissertation (or whatever CS people do) on the topic, choose related courses and even cross-college study (take out of program classes). And a note on rankings (the newsweek ranking issue showed up today). Most rankings, esp newsweek, aren't very useful. They are very political and manipulated often. It is my opinion that there are three kinds of schools: Ones with nationally acclaimed programs, ones with nationally recognizable names and ones with regionally acclaimed programs. Just think about it. I think someone suggested choosing a school based upon professors/researchers you like - that is a great idea. Going to the best ______ school isn't always the wisest nor cost effective choice. I'm passing up a so-called 30th school for something 'much lower'. When looking at my schools I had these as factors: location (both regionally and nationally), size of affiliated university, offered courses/concentrations/programs. I believe that grad school is a *very individualized experience*....you get what you give & want to get. Sure, the quality of professors and resources matter - but only to a certain extent. Much of the learning and experience is self-attained - isn't that the big difference between an undergrad and a grad? So for me, the concern was more about finding an environment (with sufficient professor support/resources) that would breed personal success. Thats why (to other's dismay/amazement) having a decent D1 basketball program was actually a consideration. Surely not an overwhelming one but it helps to narrow the field of apps. Anyways...I really think youre shooting too narrow...you sound like my little sister who wants to be a CSI person. Very few degrees == specific jobs and very few jobs == specific degrees. A lot of it is work experience. Get a Masters in CS and look for a job at a computer security firm or with the FBI.
I don't know about CSI-ish degrees, but GWU (I assume you mean George Washington University in Washington DC) is a great school overall. And the location is great.
-- bearclaw
The Newest issue of U.S. News and World Report is about top schools for graduate study.
Those poor bastards, they have us surrounded. Now we can fire at them in all directions!
I think certification would do more to bolster your career. How about SANS GIAC?
Although it may not apply to you specifically, I strongly recommend you first read the Ph.D. Glut. You mention graduate school and I assume you mean you plan to get a Masters, but the article is still worth a look before you plunge into the pool.
Master's programs run a bit later. Some don't require replies until late summer. April 15 is the reply deadline for many Ph. D. programs, however, particularly if you receive a fellowship.
Ahh. I was unaware of this. I just see the statement saying "Council of Graduate Schools," that seems to be kind of boilerplate on these letters, and thought that it meant all graduate programs.
Computer Crime Investigation isn't really a graduate school kind of thing. It's kind of like if you went to graduate school and ended up with a degree in business. Oh, whoops. (Sorry MBAs, but you know your degree is a joke). What you want to learn is best learned by going in the field. I'll leave you with a quote from a professor of mine:
"Of course mathematics is wonderful and anyone who goes to graduate school in mathematics is much more brilliant than anyone who, say, chooses a starting salary of $100K on Wall Street instead."
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
Depends what you're looking for. If you want to do it "convenient and cheap", you might be interested in the program I'm pursuing. I'm half-way plus through a Masters of Science in Applied Computer Science with a concentration in Information Assurance at Columbus State University, Columbus, GA. It's an on campus degree, but enough of the courses are offered remotely, they also offer a distance learning version. You probably understand the trade-offs of not being in a face-to-face class, but I'll still end up with a M.S. from an accredited state university and be exposed to everything from Forensics to Auditing to Penetration testing to Network security, etc. And the price is UNBELIEVABLY inexpensive!!/
http://cs.colstate.edu/html_hi/programs/grad.aspx
Price - approx $5000 plus books
Another choice is to get a computer-related degree from "wherever" and add expertise through programs like this:
http://www.kennesaw.edu/coned/sci/index.htm/
You will get more up-to-date info through seminars like these and more practical "real life" applications than through most academic courses which need to cover a broader spectrum and use published books (which already puts them 6-18 months behind the most current tools).
I know this is a crazy idea, but maybe you could call up some police departments or FBI offices and, I don't know, maybe ask them? Not to be a smart ass, but it seems like the obvious answer is to go ask the people that have those jobs.
Don't be afraid to talk to people. Especially when you aren't a criminal or complaining, most law enforcement people are more than happy to talk to people.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
I am a Ph.D. student in computer engineering at Iowa State, and our program may be of interest to you. We have several faculty members doing forensics research in areas such as detecting illegal pornography and attack attribution. The department also has a computer forensics lab, and offers a specific course in Computer Forensics that includes projects where drive images are examined using EnCase and FTK in order to locate and recover evidence.
Probably the best advice I can give on selecting any program is checking out the courses that are offered and what the faculty in that department are working on. It may take some time and effort, but can really pay off. An additional benefit with our program at Iowa State is that most of our computer security courses are offered through distance education. So if you are undecided, you can take a course or two and decide if it is something you want to pursue.
Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
i work for that school and the reason we didn't accept you is because of your flawed character and general attitude problem.. to which you appear to be oblivious, but which everyone who meets you is aware of immediately.
my password really is 'stinkypants'
Try my discipline: Geography, especially GIS for Forensics. Lots of programs have people interested in the topic, especially since homeland security money is so available. Go on http:///www.aag.org and search through the Annual Meeting proceedings for names of people doing work in this area. Apply to those programs. Include in your application letter a one paragraph blurb about a thesis topic. I did a side project for law enforcement agency that wanted to "predict" where meth labs would most likely happen. Using demographic data and some good old fashioned kriging we were able to locate hot spots that correlated strongly to past meth lab activity. Cops each shit like that up.
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
Get some real world experience first. What if you decide you hate it? Seriously, a background in CompSci does not a forensic expert make. You'll have to deal with stupid government lifers, endless reams of paperwork and regulations, etc. Maybe work in a "corporate" world first, learn what you like and don't like. For instance, I used to work for a dotcom, and discovered that I hated working for a company that sold IT services/products. Why? The snake oil that flew around. The divide between the technical expertise of my fellow engineers and I , and the customer that we inevitably had to bamboozle to help Sales make the sale. Yuck. So now I know - don't do that.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Most police agencies require you spend time in the field doing police type activities (catching criminals, dealing with domestics, etc) before you can move on to other things. I imagine Foresnics is probably something that is more OJT then degree taught. My recommendation, get your BS and apply to FBI, DHS or state police departments.
Generally, the way to go about it is to find a professor or a group of professors doing interesting research, and apply for those programs. Most people I know that followed that path were happy with where they ended up.
;).
And, as a side note, don't get caught up looking at a program that says "Computer Forensics" on it. There are only a few for a reason. It takes a strong general education in math and computer science and computer engineering to do that sort of work. So, you should get a detail look at some CS and CE programs. I would say, actually, that Computer Engineering programs might be the best of all. A lot of computer security issues, as you know, occur at low levels that CS people _generally_ muck around with (because of their twin fascinations with Java and theory
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Crudely Drawn Games
A masters in digital forensics isn't too different than a paper MCSE. You need lots of real world hands on. As anyone who has a BS in Comp Sci will tell you, much of what you learn in college isn't too useful in the real world.
If you are about to have a CS degree, apply to the FBI, DEA, Secret Service, ICE, or some other federal agency. They are begging for people with technical degrees. You will likely be the resident tech guru and quickly get an assignment and trainig in forensics. If you like it you can then likely get them to pay for your masters.
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
The Univeristy of Rhode Island is trying to teach this kind of stuff I believe. It's not the worlds most prestigious graduate program, but I think they've been doing the forensics stuff for a few years, so the instruction in that topic might be well developed.
The choice in the field eventually comes to whether you're looking for short-term bucks or a career that will be fun for the next 2-4 decades. If you want it to be fun for the long-run, don't be too quick to specialize in a narrow IT area. If you're just looking for bucks, get ready to be bored for a long time. I see lots of people who've been in IT for 10-20 years who hate what they do and hate themselves for doing it, but stay because the money's good. It's scary to think that they spend so much of their life being unhappy.
Most people I meet in my work (both inside and outside IT) are working in a field different from their degrees. It tells me a lot about how little we know of a field before we actually enter it, but it also tells me a lot about how the easily knowledge from one field translates to another.