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Linux Grows 27.1% in China

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the thats-a-lotta-installs dept.

prostoalex writes "Boosted by government purchases and SCO UNIX replacements, Linux grew by 27.1% in China in 2005 and generated $11.8 mln for the companies involved."

28 of 224 comments (clear)

  1. piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The adoption rate should be higher, but it's not taking into account the people in China who pirate Linux.

    1. Re:piracy by cpatil · · Score: 2, Funny

      11.8 Million constitutes 5% of the market share which is legal. Pirated 95% is Pricless ;-)

  2. Replacing SCO..... by IamGarageGuy+2 · · Score: 2, Funny

    But I thought that SCO has a new line of software. If China went exclusivly SCO they would have the potential to rule (sue) the world.

    --
    Stay tuned for new sig...
  3. in comparison to.... by eggoeater · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'd like to see the growth stats for pretty much everything else in China....

    I'm willing to bet that MS products grew a lot more than 27%.
    My brother has to go there for business on a regular business. He says they're building the equivalent of New York City every year.

    This is also why we in the US will be paying $5/gallon for gas soon... not because of our demand but because of Asia's demand.

    --
    $7.95/mo, 200 GB disk, 2TBxfer, MySQL, PHP, RoR.
    1. Re:in comparison to.... by jawtheshark · · Score: 3, Funny
      This is also why we in the US will be paying $5/gallon for gas soon...

      See if I care: I *already* pay $5/gallon *now*...

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    2. Re:in comparison to.... by jawtheshark · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Well, with my current job I have to do 100km/day too... That adds up, especially because I was dumb enought to buy a sports car six years ago. (When prices were still acceptable and I only had to do 60km/day) With the fuel efficiency of about 25MPG my car has, it hurts... badly... (I manage to get it up to 27.6MPG by driving like a grampa)

      In the US, there seems to be a myth that in Europe one can rely on public transportation all the time. This is true in the big metropolitan areas, but most people still live outside such areas. Going to my work with public transportation would take over 3 hours. With my car, I can make it in an hour in peak times and in less than 40 minutes out of peak times.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    3. Re:in comparison to.... by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's different. Most places in America, you can't live normally without driving. Sad, perhaps, but true.

      For two reasons. One because you're probably the most obese people on earth, which doesn't get any better by you sitting in cars and at desks all day. Getting to the public transportation is tiresome because you don't get the exercise of using public transportation. The 10 minute walk to/from public transportation actually makes a difference.

      Secondly, you don't have much of public transportation because noone would use it. Why should you, your car gets you where you want at almost no cost at all, and I admit the convienience of going exactly when you want it to go, to exactly whereever you're going is an advantage. In order to run it at any profitability, there must be people willing to use it regularly, not as a last ditch emergency when the car breaks down. If you expect public transportation to act as a taxi service on demand, it's not going to happen.

      If you tell me it can't be done, bullshit. Our population density is *half* of yours, we pay about $6/gallon already. Sure, the people in the outskirts need a car but you don't even have proper public transportation where you could. In fact, everything there seems to be designed for driving. Let me take a small detail, last time I was there we bought some stuff in a grocery, and the plastic bags were completely unsuited for carrying. They were barely usable enough to get them out to your car in the parking lot. So if you're stuck in a corner, I'd say that's because you're painting yourself in there. Other countries cope, if you can't you need to blame something else than geography.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:in comparison to.... by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Funny

      See if I care: I *already* pay $5/gallon *now*...

      Offtopic, but its sunday and not much action is going on here.

      Yes, Americans do pay less for gas than probably anywhere else in the world, but like everything else, things are relative. Here are the differences between your gas price and ours:

      1) We use more, we get volume discount.

      2) We essentially own much of the oil in either owning companies like Exxon, and we do produce 40% of our own oil.

      3) We drive more. Its a cultural thing. Public transportation is almost taboo here.

      4) Another cultural thing, senior citizens "need" a 4x4 to drive to the grocery store, Wal-Mart, and church. No, I'm not making that up.

      I'm sure there are other things as well, but that should be a good start.

      Back to the relativity part, gas prices are going up here, but we don't get paid more at our job because of it. Here is a graph of historical gas prices: http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/ gas_vs_oil_price_comparison.htm

      The real question, "How does this effect the price of tea in China?"

    5. Re:in comparison to.... by dalutong · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You forget one more point -- Americans have left the cities for the suburbs (and now the "ex"urbs) over the past 50 years. American's are big on property and personal space. I grew up in China and got very used to always been within a couple of feet of someone. When I came to America in '99 I was chastised regularly for walking or standing too close to someone.

      I also noticed the envy people had with large yards -- something you can only get far away from cities (for affordable prices.) I think some of this is the "keeping up with the jones'" effect -- everyone in america feels they are middle class, and so no one accepts that they can't afford a house with a yard. so they find a place where they can.

      That and people here like bargains. They are happy to drive 20+ minutes to go to the discount shops.

      And T.V. I can't remember what the exact numbers are, but the average household has the T.V. on for something like 8 hours. But when you live in the sub/ex-urbs... what else is there to do? You can play in parks, I guess. But you can't really walk anywhere else.

      --

      What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
    6. Re:in comparison to.... by Knuckles · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In fact, everything there seems to be designed for driving.

      The car culture creates a pull towards car-friendlyness. If people have cars, distances grow. Studies at the Technical University Vienna have shown that the average time we spend for transportation is pretty much constant. If you can go faster, you go farther.

      Therefor in a car culture, the shops move to the outskirts where they have less costs, and get away with it because people can drive there for the cheaper prices. The shops offer bigger and bigger packages of household goods, to be chearper, and because people drive there as rarely as possible. The parking lots are huge. The local shops go bankrupt. Suddenly you can't go shopping without a car.

      Other example: cars make streets deserted. If people use cars a lot in a city, it gets lonely on the streets. Instead of walking together, people drive by each other. In addition, the noise makes the residents turn away from the street. They close windows, try to be in rooms away from the street. Given time, the architecture will change and turn inwards, presenting cold walls to the outside, with only bathroom and hallway windows. The bed and living room windows face to a courtyard or similar.
      These changes slowly make the streets uncomfortable and possibly dangerous, and gradually more people switch to cars. Soon there is no space for pedestrians any more, let alone a sidewalk, or anything to walk to.

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    7. Re:in comparison to.... by onebecoming · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not sure it's fair to say gasoline is taxed excessively (outside America); automobile use, and indirectly gasoline consumption, is tied to a lot of negative side effects, not least the development of sprawl in the built environment. Sprawl is massively inefficient and unsustainable beyond a certain point. "Massively inefficient" not only because of the costs of transportation, but also because urban living simply conserves more energy in terms of heating and cooling (think surface area to volume ratio) and because, in general, an urban environment allows one to take advantage of efficiencies of scale and economies of agglomeration hard to find in rural areas.

      And as for unsustainable, you ever try driving on an L.A. freeway at rush hour? Contrast that to New York's transportation system, which actually operates at peak efficiency during rush hour. It's true that in L.A., at least you get to sit inside your own private space while you wait... but you're still stuck. Point is, L.A. can't take any more, but New York has room to grow.

      Taxing gasoline may not be "excessive" in the sense that we'd do better to discourage problems like these from developing, but as disincentives go, a gas tax is fairly roundabout. In Britain, I believe (someone please correct me), I heard they're introducing a per-mile taxation system, using GPS, based on traffic flow and the marginal costs "to society" of your one additional automobile. California's eventually going to have to implement something similar, I fear.

      Who's to blame? The self-destructive modernist attitudes of early twentieth-century automobile companies and of President Eisenhower, who built the interstate freeway system, encouraging Americans to build out, is a quick answer. There's another perspective entirely--that sprawl is the American way of life, and we Americans do what we please, and if we have to bleed oil and get immobilized in traffic twice a day for the sake of our American lifestyle, then so be it, energy efficiency be damned. That's an argument I don't want to get into.

      --
      Cripple fight!
    8. Re:in comparison to.... by JonahDark1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The oil companies and the tire companies basically bribed/paid the cities with great public transit systems to dismantle them around 1950. LA is a good example of this. It used to have one of the best public transit systems in the country. Now it's so spread out public transit is useless.

    9. Re:in comparison to.... by dalutong · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Interesting. I grew up in one of the world's largest cities. Fortunately, it was a city with parks. We played there.

      --

      What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
    10. Re:in comparison to.... by MadUndergrad · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Gore also wanted to impose a $0.50 per gallon gas tax. Personally, I think that that is the best idea I've heard from a politician in a very long time. That would have the effect of lowering the demand for gas, thus hastening the adoption of policies and practices that would reduce our need for gas. It would also be a good source of revenue for our government which has the fiscal acumen of a flock of teenage girls with daddy's credit card.

  4. Re:piracy? by slashbob22 · · Score: 2, Informative

    The AC is being funny. If this was the Music Industry, their statement would be something to the extent that the music sales were up, but it would be up twice as high if it weren't for the pirates. You can't pirate GPL software, but you can make a joke on why the numbers aren't higher.

    As my Karma Burns: "Burn, Baby Burn, Flames are Getting Higher" - Shawdow Warrior

    --
    Proof by very large bribes. QED.
  5. Chump change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    IDC forecasts China's Linux market will grow at a CAGR of 34.0% from 2006 to 2010, and reach $51.1 mln by 2010

    Imressive growth numbers, but a 51.1 million dollar market is puny. ( Especially, if you consider that there's 1.2 Billion people in China. ) Hopefully, it'll grow large enough to warrant the large investment needed to market over there.

    You see, for a small company such as mine, I don't have the resources to park there until the market is large enough to support my operations - unlike IBM, MS, SAP, etc... That's were globalization fails. Small companies can't compete with the large multinationals. That's kind of the whole falacy with the globalization raising everyone'sstandard of living.

    There's only so much inputs (oil, raw materials, etc...) to go around. Think I'm wrong? Well, I guess the markets are wrong too. Oil, steel, and other raw materials and fuel prices have been skyrocketing (Because the whole world wants to live like the US). But my market is just here in the S.E. US and I don't have the resources to expand into China. So, my costs go up, but my revenues stay the same. My demand curve is quite, how do the ecomonists say it?, elastic. I can't raise prices. But the multinationals, can go and move into China or whereeever and take advantage of the lower labor costs. The result, small entrepreneurial companies can't survive and the multinationals will take over everything. That's just the way it is.

    I'm all ears for anyone who says the a small company can survive in this environment - please post solution.

    Also, if we in the US are using 25% of the resources (inputs) and we're only 5% of the world's population, how can 100% of the world live like US? They can't. everyone's standard of living will have to be reduced (I'm trying - I'm using much less fuel and food!) or there's going to be very rich and the other 5 billion people will live in poverty -like now.

  6. heh by popeguilty · · Score: 5, Funny

    [obligatory joke about how Free Software == communism]

  7. Server or Desktop by CSHARP123 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This article do not have much information. Is the server software or the desktop software that is gaining hold there? Linux has always grown in server market. IMHO, Growth in Desktop market will be a great deal as that helps the growth of the Linux much faster than server growth.

  8. Meaning of market revenue? by rg3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm curious to know, since I have no idea about the topic, what does market revenue (which is what grew 27.1% according to TFA) exactly mean and how does it relate to the number of people or computers using or running Linux.

  9. Which pills are they using? by Mr2001 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I don't read Chinese, so I can only respond to the email advertisements I get in English, but I've tried them all and *I* sure haven't grown 27.1%... maybe I should hire a translator.

    --
    Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
  10. Purchase Linux by suv4x4 · · Score: 3, Funny

    After long, exhausting and expensive research, China has found out how to buy a free product.

  11. Rinux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    is the distro they run in China.

  12. Re:Generate? by canuck57 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How does an operating system generate millions of dollars? Do they mean save?

    Save would be in the billions. Say you have 200 million children and you wanted to give them computers. 200,000,000 times $1,000 for office, windows, email (servers and client), powerpoint, database, compilers and tools, etc. is not going to cut it.

    One thing most of us don't understand is that they will not pay M$ prices, they can't. Linux probably runs $1 or less a copy. Saving, 199.9 billion. Comes with source and having a million programmers improve it is real and economical. It might take a generation but once established there will be no room for expensive western products.

    Microsoft has a dilema, if they want a piece of the worlds biggest single market they have to license their entire suite for less than $20 to stand a chance. Explaining this to the western pricing models will send the market into kaos. And it still does not address the open sources issue.

    It may not be just Microsoft that has issues, imagine what would happen if China produced a x86 chip that was 90% as fast as AMD or Intel but cost $10 or less.

    Like most things, it is only a mater of time and North America will import database appliances and ERP systems from China for a fraction of current costs. It might take 10 years to be viewed as a issue but it is already happening. Linux in in almost every $49 wireless home AP out there.

    In the end, every business that makes it will be services orientated. The OS is a commodity.

  13. affect not effect by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Funny


    i'm not thinking entirely straight this morning.

  14. Mod parent up by claus.wilke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The parent poster is 100% right. It's sad how few people understand this. With the way the majority of contemporary American cities are built, it's essentially impossible to introduce efficient mass transit, simply because there are very few places that have sufficient population density to be attractive stops for mass transit. City planning has to be changed first, then people can use more mass transit and use their car less.

    For more info, read "Suburban Nation" by Duany et al.

    Also, as a counter example, consider San Francisco, which still has a traditional city layout, and functioning mass transit.

  15. The Myth of American Obsesity Re:in comparison to. by Joey7F · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For two reasons. One because you're probably the most obese people on earth, which doesn't get any better by you sitting in cars and at desks all day. Getting to the public transportation is tiresome because you don't get the exercise of using public transportation. The 10 minute walk to/from public transportation actually makes a difference.

    Kjella, I think we have spoken before, you are Norwegian right? I recently got back from a trip to Europe, so I would like to point out a few things. One, Americans are not that fat. I saw plenty of fat people while I was in Spain, Italy and yes, even Norway. The main difference is that there are more truly obese people in America than in other countries. The average guy in the US is just slightly more overweight than the average guy in Europe from my experience. (Actually, my experience was that the British I met on the continent, were fatter than the Americans I met there). In fact, several times I was the one suggesting walking here or there, when others wanted taxis.

    The 10 minute walk to public transportation is why New Yorkers are more in shape. I agree with you there. The problem is that even in a big city, such as the one where I live (Tampa, FL), my work is at least 15-20km away. By car, it takes 15 minutes to get there. By public transport, I would have a 20 minute walk (I know many people, who couldn't even get out of their neighborhood in 20 minutes of walking), a 1 hour trip and then a half an hour walk back to my job site. So almost two hours, and when you arrived you are soaked in sweat...assuming that you don't have to change buses. Because it is predominantly poor people riding buses (not as true in really large cities) the bus stops are in bad neighborhoods and are usually dangerous. Not my idea of a good time. Nor would it be yours. Many Europeans asked me about this subject while I was there, and I think I figured it out. Europe is conducive to losing weight. I dropped 40 pounds (~20 kilos) in 9 weeks. Heck, walking in the US, is usually not the safest. The streets are loaded with cars, the sidewalks are next to the road and you are always a sneeze away from being killed. I think the lifestyle difference comes down to two things:

    1.) You walk...everywhere. I was averaging 3-4km a day (more or less)
    2.) Because of all that walking, you are buying your groceries on a daily basis, this means you are eating fresh vegetables, fresh breads, and generally more healthy food.

    Secondly, you don't have much of public transportation because noone would use it. Why should you, your car gets you where you want at almost no cost at all, and I admit the convienience of going exactly when you want it to go, to exactly whereever you're going is an advantage.

    It is a HUGE advantage! In Europe, it is a pain to find a place for your car. Not true in the states. We had measures that dedicated a lane on the highways for two or more passengers. It was still more convenient for people to bypass that opportunity and wait in longer lines, than find someone who works where you do, who is interested in being dependent on you to get to work. Unless you living next to the person, forget about it. A lot of cities have removed them because the added wait times on the commutes were pumping out more pollution.

    In order to run it at any profitability, there must be people willing to use it regularly, not as a last ditch emergency when the car breaks down. If you expect public transportation to act as a taxi service on demand, it's not going to happen.

    Like I said earlier, people aren't going to use it as long as driving a car is inexpensive. I prefer public transportation. If I lived in Alexandria and worked in DC, I would be taking the metro...it is fantastic! DC is made for that though. Large population, hard to expand the roads etc. Ditto with New York.

    If you tell me it can't be done, bullshit. Our population de

  16. Re:Hmmm interesting by Jetekus · · Score: 2, Insightful
    True, but at least megacorporations don't randomly throw people in prison (e.g. Thet Win Aung)...

    And when megacorps behave badly at least there are people trying to do something about it - most of the Chinese people at my university (Cambridge, UK) don't seem to be aware / care about the terrible human rights breaches that go on back home.

    I know where I'd rather live.

  17. Okay 11 Mil? Really? by benbranch · · Score: 2, Informative

    I live in China. Seriously. 11 Million is like peanuts around here, this country is exploding at a phenomenal rate and to be honest the adoption of 3 ply toilet paper is higher than 27% and it makes a lot more than 11 Million a year. I don't beleive this can be right.