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Making Modifications to Your Computer Workspace?
Anonymouse Cowherd asks: "I've got an ancient engineer's desk at work, and the thing is seriously not very comfortable for long-term computer usage, so I'm trying to think of things I can do to it to make it more livable. Has anyone had to live with this situation and been forced to hack their own office furniture, or wished that they had? If you did, what modifications did you make to improve your space?"
"Has anyone had to live with this situation and been forced to hack their own office furniture, or wished that they had? "
Mine runs Linux.
I compiled my desk myself using Gentoo. It's fully optimized, and all of its loops are unrolled.
The chair. Seriously. If you're going to be sitting in a chair for hours on end, it's worth it to buy a good one, or at least put some padding down on the one you already have. The other great thing about this is that, unlike a new keyboard, mouse, mousepad, or other ergonomic upgrade, a well-made chair won't wear out, break down, or become obsolete with the next version of windows (I'm using an immensely comfortable office chair from the 1920's).
I would definitely consider looking at upgrading your chair before you worry about the actual desk itself.
http://www.TheGamerNation.com/Forums
I use an architects desk as my primary workspace. I dont know what an engineer's desk is but its probably similar(meant for drafting) I took out the pen holder, drawers and the slide protector and its now perfect (and looks nice too).
I had a situation similar to this. My cheapo solution was to buy a couple of TV tray tables and arrange them in a form of L shape. One was in front of my chair and it held the keyboard. The other was to my right where I kept the mouse. On the plus side, they were lower to me so I could rest my elbo on the mouse tray. That made using the mouse a lot more comfy. On the minus side, my feet kept hitting the legs of the kb tray. Not an ideal solution, but it was better.
I hope I'm picturing the right type of desk, though. Am I correct in assuming it's too high? Or is there another factor in it I'm not picturing?
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
what i would suggest is figure out the geometry involved and talk to a carpenter before you go at it.
basically you want almost everything you need (software/ books/monitor ect) to be at arms reach and this is after your chair is correct. first adjustment needed is your arms should be more or less parrellel to the ground (and your hands should be straight).
but ask somebody that knows this kind of thing.
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
The idea is you have nothing on the floor, so you have free rein for the cables.
My setup is wall-shelves for the books (always handy), and a much sturdier wall-shelf for the monitors and b0x3n (LCDs still suck at colour, so I'm still with a 19" behemoth).
I use a normal folding-legs table as a desk, which I can use elsewhere if needed without having to dismantle the computers. Bonus is that I can move the table around to suit the eye-distance to the monitors.
As I had spare brackets, I added a small shelf below the table level for the subwoofer...
When it comes time to move to another desk, the next employee or the people in charge of keeping track of the office furniture may not appreciate your modifications. Some nit-picky manager may even consider it willful destruction of company propery. So make sure you can return it to the condition it was in when it was assigned to you.
Also, what's your definition of 'long term usage'? If it's uncomfortable after 2-3 hours, get up and take a break. You don't have to live at your desk.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
Don't sit in the same place for too long.
I sit on an old chair at work, and whilst its not uncomfortable, its not the best thing in the world. I do this because if I get comfy in a big old chair I won't work as hard.
Get up, walk around. At the very least your eyes will thank you.
liqbase
This can fix anything.
If that doesn't do it, throw in this too.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
1) If the keyboard and mouse are at the wrong height (forearms should be basically horizontal to the ground while keying / mousing) look into one of the under-dek mounted slide-out keyboard and mouse trays made by folks like Kensington, Steelcase, etc. Ebay or a local used office furniture or used computer store are places to look for this stuff on the cheap. Look for a tray that adjusts height, angle and left/right orientation, and also make sure that it slides under the desk to get it out of the way when not in use.
2) At the minimum, get a comfotable chair that either a) fits you natively, or b) has enough adjustment to make you comfy.
3) If the monitor is not at the right height (Your eyes should be level with the top edge of the viewable area when you are looking at it with your head tilted slightly down) either adjust the stand or place something STURDY and flat underneath the monitor to raise it to the proper height.
4) For optimum comfort, make sure that your mouse is located as close to your centerline as possible. This is a bigger deal than many people think - having your arm angled out to the side while mousing can be a major casue of Repetitive Stress Injuries.
And oh yeah, take frequent breaks!
\/\/oobie
to the kitchen, and recycled the empty Mountain Dew (or Polyjuice Potion, as I call it) bottles. I have a lot more space now.
Okay, here goes. This is for three monitors and two full-time towers.
First, get your chair right. Start with feet flat, back straight, thighs comfortably on the seat. Add footrests and whatever afterwards; this is just to give you the starting point to build the desk from.
Now, ideally you want the keyboad in your lap, but you've got to compromise for desk thickness, plus a little space so you can shift around without wedging your upper thighs against the bottom of the desk and thus reducing circulation for hours on end.
So get it as close as you can, just remembering that when typing, your upper arms should hang straight down from your shoulders, no reaching.
Okay, desk construction here is a 24x80" old door. These are great; you'll never hesitate to screw powerbars and cable hooks into an old door, and it won't flex. Mine is sitting on a pair of old full height towers. Some people use filing cabinets. Use kid-toy wooden blocks to finalize the height.
Now the monitor shelf. I've got a heavy-duty 15x80 shelf for no flex problem. (If you've got LCDs, then not so big a worry.) Put it 6 1/4" or 6 1/2" above the desk so you can store CDRs, a stereo amp, and any pizzabox computer or whathaveyou underneath. In my case the front of the shelf is 10" away from the front of the desk. This gives me a coffee+miscellaneous space in front of the monitors, while still being able to see the CDRs i'm reaching for.
Monitors are adjusted to same heights with lego and wood block. For me the screen center is just below nose level.
There's a fair amount of room on either end for the odd book and the daily miscellaneous. And I can swing the chair a bit and put my feet up diagonally while leaning back and reading, giving my back some all important variety.
The actual tower computers are between my left leg and the left support tower. They're behind a couple of cheap framed whiteboards with insulation on their backs. So the two whiteboards and the support tower create three walls of a corral to cut down the fan noise a bit. Some clever work with cardboard under the desk makes the front one a sliding screen for DVD bay access.
I'll spare further detail because you can make up your own to fit. But this is my setup after years of 10+ hour days and I love the flexibility.
In addition to the chair, you should also install a shelf underneath your desk on which you can place a blanket and an alarm clock. That way, you can take a nap there comfortably without anyone finding out. Oh yeah, one more thing. Make sure that the alarm clock doesn't tick. Otherwise, someone might mistake it for a bomb.
I have an L-shaped desk with Gorilla Racks behind each long side of it and then one perpendicular to the short edge of one side. This allows me to put the computers up on the racks themselves, preserving desk space but still within reach (the lowest shelf is just slightly higher than the desk itself. This allows me to easily run wires for any equipment I do leave on my desk, such as the phone. Also, books and other equipment (like CD-ROM drives) are easily reachable.
1 41799282&year=2005
I think with chairs, I've just gotten lucky. The chair I use is the pefect size for the desk and I rarely feel any physical fatigue even over long sessions.
I have most of my systems on the shelves oriented in such a way that the power supply fan blows toward the window, so I can easily open that up and exhaust the hot air that builds up. In addition, I have the machines which have cables I may need to unplug or switch on a regular basis on the shelf perpendicular to the short edge of the desk, so I can easily walk around behind the shelves and have full access to the back of the case.
A picture of how I did this with shelves is here:
http://www.computerrooms.org/viewer.php?pointer=1
Those Gorilla Racks are worth seeking out, by the way - I buy them at Costco and they have a capacity of something like 600 pounds per shelf (!) I never get close to this of course, but they feel steady in such a way that I don't mind piling equipment on there. The shelves can be adjusted to just about any height - you choose.
Preserving desk space is key to my own sanity since I often have books or printouts I am working from, along with my lunch, etc.
Another thing which helps is lighting. I have found that the best lighting for me is not very high above my desk. This allows my desk space to be flooded with light for reading, without diminishing the contrast of the monitor. Accordingly I use a light with a lampshade on it and have the lamp actually on my desk, at the edge.
If I were to do something about my office situation, I would probably get/make a sit-stand desk.
An article from the other day about geek health problems brings up the issue of low back pain, an ergonomic sit-stand desk might be a great choice for long hours of computer work. If you don't want to shell out for the high-cost adjustable desks, you can sometimes make do with a workbench type desk that you can stand at and type, and a tall chair to go with it for the times you want to sit.
-mls
Build a bed under your desk George Costanza style.
Maximum oc has a good article on this..... http://www.maximumpc.com/2006/03/outfit_your_wor.h tml
Purple, because ice cream has no bones.
I had a situation where I didn't like my work environment, for a few reasons including poor ergonomics - and I ended up telecommuting 3 days out of 5 - and doing most of my work from my home computers (which were about 10X more powerful than those at work).
At a former employer (moved on up, thank Zarquon) my computer desk was a table. You know those tables with the cheap laminate tops and the metal tube legs? Yep, one of those.
My keyboard was about two inches too high. One day I snuck in early with a ruler, a marker and a set of tube cutters.
They fought over that desk when I left.
If the height of the desk isn't right, no amount of fiddling with the chair will compensate.
I don't think most are thing of it, but paint the wall behind your monitor a darker color, I use a dark grey. The difference in contrast really helps your eyes, you won't have the eye fatigue that you'd have otherwise. Next up is the chair, spend money on a chair, after that get a desk that's the right height, and go from there...
fak3r.com
You are a jackass.
And don't forget to have covers from "Road and Track" or "Field and Stream" magazines to hide the Playboys.
Several people have mentioned shelves in some form or another. I went the exact opposite route and had all shelves and cabinets above my desk area removed. It allowed me to push my display back further to a more comfortable distance/height and it makes my cubicle feel much larger and more open than it actually is. It just makes my work environment feel less cluttered/stressful and more relaxing, which helps me work more effectively.
Erik http://yakko.cs.wmich.edu/~rattles
I have found every deskI sit at to be too tall for me. My current desk required me to use two 2x4s to lower the keyboard to an acceptable height. I simply drilled wood to the underside of the desk and mounted the keyboard tray to the 2x4s.
As for my seating posture, hrm, I just lean back, but whatever I'm doing requires some actual brainpower, I kinda each forward untill I'm at the edge of my seat, staring at my screen. Generally that odesn't happen often, and mostly when that does happen, I'm usually looking for a pen and pad handy to doodle. Oh yeah, and make sure your chair has armrests. I don't actaully use the armrest to rest my arms, it's more kinda like to prevent me from falling out of my chair. *shrug*
lazy is the way to go.
Never put anything on the floor or low wall areas. Just stuff to rip-up with your feet. Even the power cord goes on top of the desk, if you do not have a cable pull.
My desk at work as a power strip right behind the monitor. Allows for plugging in a laptop, along with the desktop, WITH CRAWLING on the floor.
Unfortunately, it can't fix the damage you did to your office equipment (from the perspective of your employer). Companies are often irrationally resistant to non-destructive, 100% reversible alterations to office equipment, but they are 100% rationally resistant to destructive, irreversible alterations to office equipment.
The trick is to work within the system you're given, adding things you can remove, and removing things you can put back later. Other commenters have suggested basic upgrades along these lines, like keyboard trays, shelving, etc., and these are great ideas. A few more simple thoughts from my personal experience:
I completely agree that a well maintained older chair is better than newer plastic ones. The chair I use is from 1960 has a steel metal frame and is quite comfy. The other advantage is I can throw it down a flight of stairs and still use it. (its about 20 pounds)
Also oblitory room shots. Room I've recently moved since this photo, but, this was the most glorious setup I ever had. I had to crawl to get into it, but I liked it.
Seriously. They cost a few hundred dollars at most, and you're going to be spending 1/2 of your waking life in front of it.
If management won't pony up, make thinly-veiled claims of RSI (don't worry, you'll get it eventually). If they still won't pony up, just buy your own. Working at a terrible workstation isn't worth it.
The ______ Agenda
A 500 watt (RMS) Logitech speaker system does it for me.
If the word "hacker" (or perhaps the concept and the word's relation to it) is to be traced,
:-)
A 'hacker' is "one who makes furniture with an axe".
-
An Ancient Engineer, what a cool position... commanding all those Senior Engineers!
There you are, staring at me again.
> The chair I use is from 1960 has a steel metal frame and is quite comfy. The other advantage is I can throw it down a flight of stairs and still use it.
Steve? Steve Ballmer, is that you?
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
And the most fun is, once a year I take a good hard look at the collection, and chuck a lot of it out, then I get to FILL IT UP AGAIN with *new* strange crap.
My girlfriend just doesn't understand, but I know everyone here will. We are geeks, we need to have STRANGE STUFF, most of which to "normal" people seems silly, but to us are our TREASURES. And the gorilla rack holds them. Bless the rack!
As to the light I only use one, an "Eclipse" reflective halogen that sticks to the top of the monitor and shines down on the keyboard and front of the desk. At first I thought it might interfere with the screen too much but it doesn't seem to at all. And I keep an LED headlamp handy for a quick job inside a case, or cleaning a mouse, or whatever, wiggling under the desk looking for the odd dropped friznit or cable rearrangement, etc.
I still need work on my chair, it is built for giant fat bosses and I need a dang booster pillow to sit in the thing, but it was the only chair I could find that was tall enough. Eventually I am going to disassemble it and rebuild part of it to fit *me* better, and change the seat adjustment angles.
bah, it's either too many projects or not enough, sort of like cups of coffee...
Then ship it to Kolkata and hire somebody else sit at it for you.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Your employer doesn't supply you with a proper desk? Here in Sweden we have laws governing the workplace and my employer do listen if I need something new. I currently have one of those desks that I can either sit or stand at (goes up and down with motors) and I have a chair a chiropractor has fitted for me.
When it comes to keyboard/mouse I can buy whatever I want and get reimbursed on my salary. I work for that big blue IT-company btw. (Excuse any spellingerrors etc etc, English is not my first language).
English is not my first language, so cut me some slack -: Om du kan lasa det har sa kan du Svenska
Try reading this(i used to have a hp workstations @ work a few years ago) or other similar guides on the internet. /.)
A few important points according to me:
1. make sure that your chair and table height are correct/comfortable for you, you should not have to bend forward (refer to ergo guide for what correctness means)
2. invest in a good chair with sufficient lumbar support & hand rest, should cost around $150 (adjustible arm-rests wud be great too)
3. make sure that the keyboard and mouse are placed properly, if required get one of those ultra adjustible keyboards especially if you are going to be typing all day.
4. take frequent breaks (and that doesnt imply reading
5. try to get some exercise for you back wrists and neck atleast a few times a week, dont ignore any pain in joints (could be CTS)
[all generalizations are untrue except this one]
It just makes me cringe. What you really mean is "Produces 500W into an 8 ohm resistive load at 0.1% distortion given a sinusoidal waveform at 1kHz". Or you can just drop the RMS and say 500W because we know what you mean... you really mean average power.
Please leave RMS measurements to the electricians.
WTF? dont you have Occupational Health & Safety laws? tell your employer you need some furniture that isnt going to give you health problems resulting in you claiming workers compensation in the long run anyway
TIAEAE!
In re: to your signature, did you ever find a place? Let me know, I've got thousands going back to Arabian Nights I think.
How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
When I told my supervisor that I was having wrist pain and could use a keyboard tray, instead of just getting a keyboard tray, they called in an ergonomics specialist to evaluate my work environment. Ultimately, what I got was the keyboard tray that I had asked for.
I found out later that the company had just been sued by an employee for disability over a similar issue (though apparently that was someone with a history of questionalbe lawsuits).
Note: not my current employer
Go to IKEA, buy the sturdiest, nicest looking normal sized kitchen table you can find.
Nuff said.
Some say he is made with ascii, others that he is eyeballed daily by millions. All we know is, he is known as the Sig
When I was in my 20's, (about ten to fifteen years ago), I had an arrangement where the computer and monitor sat on a low coffee table at one side of the room. A 3m extension cord was added both to the mouse and keyboard. I then sat in a beanbag chair with the keyboard in my lap and the mouse sitting on a tray on my right. The tray had short legs on it, which lifted it up about 20cm off the floor. This was positively the most comfortable computing arrangement I have ever had, and I miss it.
Unfortunately, my eyesight will no longer support me looking at a monitor from that distance without replacing it with a much larger model (I used a 14" monitor back then).
www.wavefront-av.com
OSHA (assuming you're in the US) has regulations that should cover poor ergonomics in one's workspace.
Even if they don't, most companies I've been exposed to make a point of telling employees about the value of good ergonomics and how to properly set up one's workspace. Until they eliminated the position, my former employer's company nurse would come to your desk, help you get everything adjusted, and if money needed to be spent (modifications, equipment, etc.), she'd get it pushed through your boss to make it happen. She even gave me a few pages out of a catalogue for me to select rubber mats to put in front of our server consoles to ease the back pain from standing on the hard raised floor for long periods.
It is driven by good old fashioned economics. Worker's comp claims for ergo related injuries have soared - insurance companies now give businesses better rates if they have a good ergonomics program in house.
Dell 2405 FPW widescreen monitor.
VESA monitor float arm.
Get the stuff off the desk - the horizontal surface is for stacking all kinds of shit up, not for hardware...
Funny thing: I'm doing just the same thing right now. I'm quitting my job to become a consultant (egad, I hope I get enough clients), and I'm in the process of setting up my own work area. I have an unusual office with limited space, so I'm actually building my own desk (it's good to engineer something physical, for a change). I'm going to echo what a lot of people have already said, but here's a few things I've learned about myself over the years:
1. A lot of people have already mentioned it, but a good chair is a must for me. It should support my back, and let my arms, shoulders, neck, and head all rest in relaxed, comfortable positions.
2. I need my monitor positioned directly in front me slightly below eye level while I'm working. I used to put my monitor off to the side. I'd sit twisted toward it all day and wonder why my back hurt. Hmm. I also need my monitor to be big enough that I can see it without straining my eyes while I sit back in my chair without leaning forward.
3. Clear desk space in front of me. I love a wall mounted LCD. I don't have this yet, but I've worked with them before, and they're GREAAAT! Somebody else said this, too, but lots shelves (with lots of paper trays). Get those piles of unfinished crappy paperwork off my desk. Oh, and hanging file folders: love 'em.
4. Lots of nice breaks. I need to move around and look at actual objects and people. I like to have other stuff to do in my office, like drawing paper and charcoal, and a guitar. I sometimes get so fixated on my little virtual reality that I almost revert to an autistic state if I don't have some real world interaction.
Have fun!
Rabbits are running multiplication subroutines in cages in your backyard.
"He's a real midnight golfer"
I was in a 6' X 8' cube for several years. I improved it by taking out one of the desk surfaces. It went from a U to an L and I got a couple extra feet as well as the ability to roll back and stay within my cube. You want space more than desk space. Good luck.
Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. Albert Einstein
only so much you can do to a desk, e.g. if its old and "expensed" on the company's books, drilling a few holes might be ok [for better cable routing] And wireless everything could save some deskspace for books and papers and coffee. But here is what I once did when I was stuck with one of those iron boxes. I removed the cushion from the arm rest and bolted on a plank cut from a shipping pallet. I made it so it could swing away or hover over my lap. then I fastened my keyboard to the plank. Since it was a swivel chair with liberal adjustments to the springs, I could get just the right line of sight from eye to terminal and rock back and forth as I typed, which is a lot less fatiguing than sitting still for hours at a time.
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
Workstations, iMac G-5, two cables...power and cat-5- winbox in the server room running headless, connect via RDC(sweet!) I just received a new desk, with drawers that lock! The chairs are decent, and our office was actually expanded(we consolidated much of the server room ;-}) now all we need is some art work to go on our new walls. We have windows(to look out of and see the world!) that open for fresh air... now all we need is some chics to work in the office, and it would be really cool...
Sig Hansen?
I have found that a really nice pair of comfortable headphones make me about twice as productive (and thus happier) as I would be without. If your job can support you listening to music (and thus blocking out the external distractions) while working, its worth investing in a pair that you will be comfortable wearing for hours and hours at a time. I would personally suggest a pair of sennheiser hd580s, but i admittedly have never tried powering them from a computer sound card. really the most important part is the comfort level of the headphones.
....................
There is only one office in my building that doesn't ahve a window, and I snagged it up right away. In my prior office, I was always fighting the glare through the blinds, or wasting time watching the lizards fight our on the central air unit. I put a nice halogen lamp in the corner of my new office, which bathes the room in a low level of yellow light. Just enough to read easily. My office is also relatively isolated from sound, which can get very distracting, especially conversation, as your mind tries to interpret it even if you don't care to.
As everyone has said, a comfortable chair is important. I like something I can lean back in, and pivot around on. I don't care for arms on my chair. It also has to be quiet; no cracks and squeaks when I shift positions.
Finally, if you don't already have several monitors, get some. Three 17" LCDs can be had for about $600, and give you plenty of usable screen space.
Getting back to your immediate topic, I'd just suggest raiding the office for any unused tables or desks, and building a surface suitable to your requirements. I was originally given an official computer station, with a pullout keyboard tray, which I quickly ditched in favor of a regular, flat desk that was just about my typing height. With a little discretion and the help of a co-worker, you can probably appropriate something useful.
I saw your post on Ekiga 2.0 when I googled for other stuff, but it was to late to replay and I can't find a function for sending private messages so I'll answer here instead. Sorry for beeing off topic.
;), I would rate X-ten X-lite(is that the name?) as just beneath SJPhone.
Regarding SIP and Ekiga I'm not sure if there are any chances to use SIP behind a NAT without any forwarded ports (in that case using STUN but I doubt it.)
What ports are used are application dependant, but this is what I use and I have no troubles with any application or provider so far:
5060 TCP/UDP (SIP UAS, I think this should be enough.)
5000-5100 UDP (But with only the ports above I could only use my other account, not the Ekiga.net one, with these both works.)
3478-3479 UDP (STUN service)
49152-65535 UDP (RTP, RTCP multimedia streaming)
I _think_ that port 5060 (or 5000-5100) is used to say "hi, you got a phone call", but the actual voice data are sent over port 49152-65535 (valid for SJPhone, might be application dependant). I think you only need the STUN ports open if you use STUN, STUN seems to be a service which helps the application to figure out what kind of firewall it is behind.
I've covered this with screenshots in my blog but it's written in swedish so I don't know how much help that gives. Atleast you can look at the images?
I know for my "real provider" I had to tell them if I where behind NAT or not, doesn't seem like anything like that is needed for the ekiga.net account for whatever reason. Maybe with STUN + NAT enabled user you don't have to forward any ports at all?
Another alternative is to use Asterisk or Asterisk@home somewhere outside the firewall and have that handle the SIP account and use IAX for your clients instead. There is a nice (atleast screenshots says so) client available for UNIX called KIAX.
Ekiga is a nice client, for whatever reason it crashes all the time now when I upgraded to Ubuntu Dapper, but I've got noone else to blame than myself for that one. SJPhone isn't open-source but it doesn't cost anything and is very competent aswell. For Linux linphone is less good and kphone is even less good
Whatever you do, don't do this.
This sig rocks the casbah.
I went to a chiropractor for my own computer-work related back problems. After initial treatment for the immediate pain, he referred me to a physical therapist - they're trained to help you fix the cause. Like the other posters mentioned, the right sort of exercise should work wonders, but a physical therapist will be able to give you the right sort of exercises based on your particular issues.
some people around here seem to be using a whole bunch of computers at their desks. sure, i'm using a bunch of them myself, but sitting _among them_? i don't think so.. in most cases, there shouldn't be a need for more than one workstation. they generate noise, heat, and besides that, cables/gadgets/whatever make a mess under/around the desk. so why not put the extra boxes away? using ssh/vnc/etc, you can access them from your workstation, anyway. multiple monitors, on the other hand, is hard to live without once you're used to it. pull up a few vnc/X sessions and you'll be 'at' the same boxes, just not sitting among them.