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IRS Compels PayPal to Release Info
An anonymous reader writes "Just in time for the tax season, the IRS won a federal court ruling, allowing them to force PayPal to turn over records of American taxpayers who have certain foreign accounts. It's all part of an ongoing effort to track down money held in offshore accounts by would-be taxpayers. A spokesperson for PayPal acknowledged receiving the summons (PDF) and said 'We're still evaluating our options [...] The privacy of our customers' information is something we take really seriously.'"
First glance, whats the problem - paypal must follow requests for the law, then I read it and realised its another fishing mission.
They want paypal to give out the info of all US customers who use bank accounts in 30 taxhavens.
I really hope paypal manage to prevent this from happening, it seems like somebody has let power go to their head.
liqbase
I thought "fishing expeditions" were clearly a violation of unreasonable search and siezure.
//yeah, I should probably be less cranky given that my work weed ends in 1h2m :)
Oh, wait. What's that you say? They might catch terrorists? Why, in that case, citizen #83264967 stands ready for duty! Just let me chug some victory gin before we get those bastards.
Why shouldn't these records be available to the IRS? Your brokers' records are, your bank records are. I'm not much in the mood to be an enabler for tax cheats and gamblers with unreported income. This is a non-story.
I'd much rather just replace the whole bloated mess with a harder to evade, less invasive sales tax or VAT.
This case per se isn't so important, I think, compared to the larger issue.
Basically, successful private companies sometimes accumulate large amounts of user information.
The State is in general then obtaining access to that information - the recent Google subpoena comes to mind.
In other words, any large scale accumulation of data is in effect part of the State's ability to monitor citizens, since the State seems in general to be able to access that information as and when it wishes to do so.
This is worrying.
The privacy of PayPal operating an unregulated global bank, at the core of global retail ecommerce, is their highest priority. I hope the IRS is just the first Federal agency to get a grip on those Medicis, especially since they rip off people every chance they get.
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Here's the problem with your argument: The government is spending this money. They're most likely going to spend this money whether we like it or not. Yes, they should spend less. Yes, they are screwing me out of money.
However.
People who don't pay what they owe are ALSO screwing me out of money. Whether they like it or not, they have a tax responsibility. If they do not pay their share, then that share must be made up by the other taxpayers. Whether the total amount of taxes collected is $400 thousand or $400 trillion, people who don't pay their share are still screwing me out of money.
The solution is BOTH to cut spending AND for people to step up to their responsibilities. Even if the government did cut spending, tax evaders would STILL be screwing me out of my money, just not to the same degree as they are now.
By living in the United States, a citizen agrees to give a percentage of their own income to the government. That's one of the rules of this club that we're all in. If you don't like that, you are free to leave and join a different club.
Many posters point out that the sales tax due on the sale of items is subject to State level taxation, not federal, so the IRS really isnt interested in knowing if you sold BeanieBabies without declaring it as income. I've often thought about sheltering pre-tax corporate revenue into a foreign (personal) account via paypal. The idea seemed too simple so I hesitated to pursue it (doh!).
Despite this being a 'federal' issue, the issue is scary in that it will set a precedent for state govts to force similar handovers of sales data. Since its clearly demonstratable that eBay/PayPal has detailed records of sales transactions, and that eBay/PayPal has reasonable knowledge of the locale of the Seller, Buyer, and ShipTo, that proper sales tax can/should be collected, as would any other retailer. Yes, its the responsibility of the seller to know/resolve the sales tax collection issue, but, its not a stretch to say that eBay/Paypal is 'sheltering' non-payers, and so be compelled to hand over records.
The only PT Boat Journal on the web: http://www.PT171.org
I couldn't agree more. Corporations used to foot about 50% of the nation's tax bill. Want to guess where it is now? Hint: it's only one digit. The reason your taxes are "so high" is because your employer isn't paying any, if their accountant is worth their salt.
How do corporations avoid paying taxes?
That's just a small sampling.
And you know what -really- steams me? The small business owners that use their companies as tax shelters. They happily barter for the majority of the services they need, they happily take cash under the table, employ illegal immigrants (woe is them, US citizens are just SO expensive. Then why is 4% of the country unemployed?), register their cars and trucks with commercial plates so they pay less insurance and dramatically less taxes, write off all their mileage as business expenses...the list goes on.
Ever wonder why Bubba the Landscaper has a brand new truck every single year, a huge house, 3-4 kids, a big powerboat and a summer place on the shore? It isn't because he's an investment genius. It's because he's NOT PAYING TAXES ON MOST OF HIS INCOME.
Please help metamoderate.
I think people who whine about the america deficit need to step back and look at some of the deficits of european and other contries have. The ratio of tax income to national debt in America is SMALL fries compared to most european countries.
The US is FAR from the only country deep in debt and budgets wackiness.
While i do have a problem with the amount of money being spent by the US gov't, the one place that i would NEVER cut funding would be the military. If they want to cut funding they should cut funding to the pointless social programs paying people to sit around all day. A lot of people in this country refuse to find jobs because...why should they when the gov't sends them money for no reason.
While I love seeing Paypal not getting their way, this ruling has much broader implications. All payment gateways and micropayment systems in the future (such as Google, I imagine) now have a legal precident that says they may need to turn over customer data to the IRS.
Also, does this issue already hold true for real-life equivalents such as credit cards and banks?
They aren't trying to find "known" tax evaders. They're trying to find the good Dr.Smith, who wants cash up front, does the surgery out back and then uses paypal to sneak his unreported income out of the country. They have reason to people are doing this, and they are looking for a way to track it.
That we spend too much is nonissue when it comes to finding those that avoid paying their share of the nations budget. Presumably, they would avoid even if we had a smaller debt. After all, I somehow doubt it's the poor and honest doing this.
Seems more a rich and/or to cover up further illegal activities sort of thing to do...
They're there affecting their effect.
social programs paying people to sit around all day.
Isn't this what we pay our military for most of the time?
So, you would rather people in the US die of starvation, malnutrition, and lack of medication? Oh yeah, and let the elderly who are no longer able to work die on the streets. You'd rather spend it on killing people over waepons of mass destruction. Oh, except they didn't exist. Good to know.
When you say things like that, what it basicly means is you think people like my grandmother- 80 years old, suffering from macular degeneration, and having lost an arm to cancer- should have been living in the streets. She should have had no help for her sight, she should have had no help for her heart medication. In other words, she should have died a decade before she did.
All I can do to that kind of sick world view is most sincerely wish that you *DO* suffer that kind of pain. Fucking asshole.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
I think most of you are missing the big picture. Any of you seen the movie "Enemy of the State?" Will Smith was just like most of you.
Yeah that's exactly how it always starts. All the "honest citizens" sign away all their rights in hopes of catching the criminals. However, in order to do that, you have to treat the "honest citizens" like criminals.
I don't care who you are, there is something in your lifestyle or habits that resembles something a criminal would do. Where do you draw the line?
Also, I thought slashdot was the home of comspiracy theories?
In 2001, there was a discrepency of $311 billion between what was owed and what people paid. $311 billion! Since when do we trust big coporations around here? The governement HAS to be the biggets corporation of them all! People think about it: In order to estimate how much money they're missing, they'd have to have some idea as to who wasn't paying. If they had kind of lead, they'd be auditing that class of tax payers (which they probably are).
I think most of you are missing the big picture. Any of you seen the movie "Enemy of the State?" Will Smith was just like most of you.
"Why do I care if they're invading my privacy? I'm not doing anything illegal!"
Yeah that's exactly how it always starts. All the "honest citizens" sign away all their rights in hopes of catching the criminals. However, in order to do that, you have to treat the "honest citizens" like criminals. Before you know it, everything you buy or say over the phone gets you red flagged. There are examples of false alarms of good people posted all over the net. I don't care who you are, there is something in your lifestyle or habits that "resembles the criminal profile." Where do you draw the line?
Also, I thought slashdot was the home of comspiracy theories?
In 2001, there was a discrepency of $311 billion between what was owed and what people paid. $311 billion!
Talk about propaganda! People think about it: In order to estimate how much money they're missing, they'd have to have some idea as to who wasn't paying. If they had kind of lead, they'd be auditing that class of tax payers (which they probably are). This is just another platform for Government Agencies to push their agendas of privacy invasion.
ps: I hit "Submit" instead of "Preview". I trid to hit stop, but I couldn't catch it in time. Sorry for the inconvience.
I agree. But ever wonder why so many people try to scam the system like this?
Um, I dunno... maybe a feeling of disenfranchisement? The thought that they've been fleeced their entire lives by excess taxes to fund worthless pork?
Yeah, I know. The US dosn't have the most-taxed population in the world, but that still doesn't make it any more correct.
One year I got very bored and very curious, and for 6 months, I tracked every single cent that I spent, and all forms of taxes extracted from it. That included breaking out the state/federal taxes for every gallon of gas, sales taxes, income taxes withheld from my paychecks, vehicle registration/taxes, property taxes, and all those damned taxes and "fees" on utility and telecom bills. The grand total was about 50% of my gross pay -- and I was making just over $50k/yr at that time. Given how regressive (I think I have that right), lower income working would get shafted a lot harder. WTF?
So in some sense, I can't blame some people for trying to fleece a system that has fleeced them for so long.
I just changed jobs -- cut my salary to about 1/3 of what I was making. This was intentional. It so happens that my new annual earnings will be just a hair over the yearly income for a family of 4 to receive the maximum of the earned income credit, which is about $4400. See IRS Publication 596" for details, including the income/benefit tables.
Our family's self-imposed low cost of living will result in the gub'ment giving us a $4k gift next year, and our standard of living is pretty comfortable as it is. Is this playing the system? Perhaps. But as Lazlo once said, "Well they set up the rules. Lately I've come to realize that I have certain materialistic needs."
You wanna cut EIC? Go ahead -- so long as you cut industry subsidies (farm, energy, etc.) and corporate welfare (tax-paid sports venues, no-bid contracts, etc.). I'm very libertarian, but I'll take any breaks within this corrupt tax structure that we have.
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