Slashdot Mirror
Penny Arcade's CGW Interview
1up is running an interview with the Penny Arcade guys, originally done for Computer Gaming World. They talk comics, the industry, Harlan Ellison, and (of course) games. From the article: "Jerry Holkins: My favorite quote comes from this one strip where I say 'Fetch it, and gaze upon your ruined world.' I'm not sure that anybody else really pays attention to that particular comic strip, but it's called 'They Hailed From Canadon,' and it's just this...it starts out in this weird, Penny Arcade way, but it has these spacefaring dogmen that for some reason really do it for me. I don't know why."
Hey, while we're on the subject of PA. Would someone please fix the PA Slashdot sidebar? Or is PAs feed screwed up?
Why are your forums always down, and why does it take until 2pm central time each day to get the image up for the comic?
It's actually "Canidon" and here's a link to the comic: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/05/21
Harlan is a pisser, not a pissant. Huge difference.
Theres a line between being a friendly interviewer, and sucking up to the people your giving the interview to.
Actually I thought that was hillarious. There's something about watching self-important fucks getting nuked on a public forum that brings a smile to my face.
That's why slashdot is such a great read as well come to think of it...
Jive Magazine got an interview (and a custom magazine cover) with the PA guys a few months ago that I submitted but was rejected. Has some interesting stuff on the origin of their names. Check near a third of the way down when they explain how Mike became Gabrial after being called Deadly Peach....
Here
http://www.tomandemily.com
It wasn't the Star Wars thing that made me pissed off, but they way these guys compared Harlan's "schtick" to their comics. They're insisting that Harlan's angry public persona is just an act, and criticize him for not confining his bitterness to his work. Fuck them.
Meh. He's a jackass, and he decided, in public, to try and get rough with two people who make their living by being smartasses. He got what he had coming.
Personally, I can't stand him. If he was half as good as he thinks he is, that attitude would be one thing, but as it stands it's pretty sorry.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
I don't usually air personal material on the 'net (well, not much) but I met Harlan Ellison at DragonCon two years ago and he IS a big fucking prick. One of my best friends not only had lunch with that cocksucker but used her own personal car to drive Harlan and his friends to lunch (at Harlan's own request) and THEN, later that day, he treated her like total shit when all she asked for was a picture of Harlan and his wife. Man, I'll be honest, if I had had a bat or other weapon of personal destruction I'd be in jail because I would have beat the shit out of that asshat. He treated my friend with THAT much disrespect, disdain, and total disregard for her as a human being. Harlan's wife on the other hand was super nice. She deserves an award for putting up with that little peckerwood all these years.
Dream as if you'll live forever.
Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
~Anonymous~
Did you read what happened, though? Harlan started it, not them. Asking somebody if they even went to high school (with the obvious intent of implying that the other person is a moron) up on stage in front of a ton of people isn't exactly what I'd call 'nice.'
YES. He's a huge prick and an amazing asshole. It is NOT A SCHTICK and it does disrespect to Harlan and anyone to whom he was genuinely an amazing asshole to suggest that it is an act along the lines of Penny Arcade comics.
did you graduate college?
did you graduate high school?
did you RTFA? haha
------ hi mom
A big part of it is...just getting into it. You have to get to know the characters and the style, and you'll start to appreciate it. That's not really something that everybody can/wants to do, so, like anything, it's not for everybody.
There are many storys on the web of him berating announcers, hosts, guests, and even the fans in the audience. Why people look up to him I dont know. If he wasnt famous he would be that old guy who everyone stayed away from and died alone in their house and wouldnt be found for 3-4 months cause even their kids wouldnt want to talk to them.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Since SF is something I read, rather than write, I could forgive his immaturity — except that it leaks over into his fiction. He's spoiled many promising stories by ladling on the melodrama and schmaltz. I guess lots of people like his M&S. Not least Michael Straczynski, Ellisonesque M&S being the main reason I can't abide Babylon 5.
I agree that many of their comics are unfunny - it's just when they get a good one in it's genius. "Dear lord, bless the fucking nub. Bless him right in his stupid face!"
who are so insecure about their own beliefs that they can't really wrap their head around someone else who is so secure in theirs
I'd rather be around someone who admits they are wrong than someone who blindly believes in their own infalibility.
Or rather... I perfer people who take this view "I believe myself to be correct now, but given extra information or changes in stuations I understand and accept I could be horribly wrong in the future."
Being an ass and strongly believing yourself to be correct... doesn't make you correct.
And yes... Harlan started it.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
I happen to find PA very funny (well, sometimes its just funny), but since I dont really care for forums (nor network tv, for that matter), Maybe im not the typical PA fan. But nobody that i've found follows the games industry as closely as I do. And they usually have interesting commentary. I'm not really interested in the PA fans who think chuck norris is a demigod.
"Something's wrong with you...and I hope we never do meet again." - Deftones When Girls Telephone Boys
PA's humor is one of those things that carries quite a few prerequisites.
You have to be a fairly avid and experienced gamer to catch even half the allusions they make. You have to like sarcastic and satirical humor, as well as be able to understand and appreciate more juvenile humor (like the frequency of the word "wang" in their strips for a while).
There are a lot of PA strips that I don't laugh at, even when I see the humor. A few of them I just shrug my shoulders and move on to something more interesting. But they get out at least a couple a month that really make me laugh, and that's enough for me to spend a few minutes reading.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
No, I think they're quite aware that Harlan's angry public persona is nothing of the sort - it's his personality, not a persona. Harlan is (or was, in his day) a great and innovative author and editor. He deserves all of the props he receives for his writing. His also a flamming ahole, and he deserves all of the abuse he gets for his arrogance and his complete lack of common decency. I can respect and revere his work while still holding him in utter contempt as a person.
"The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.
ranting (excessively) about penny arcade's god-awful archive search system aside, got a link to that strip? I tried every word in the quote seperately, nada.
I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
"PA is about as funny as any other comic strip one would find in their newspaper. They just happen to concentrate on games."
..." Whole Family: "Wins!"
Marmaduke:
First panel- Kid: "Hey Marmaduke! I'm playing a video game!"
Second panel- Marmaduke sits in front of TV.
Third panel- Kid: "No fair! You beat my high score!"
Family Circus:
First- Boy: "I don't want to eat my corn flakes! I want to play video games!"
Second- Dad: "Well, pretend it is a video game!"
Third- Dad: "First one to finish their bowl
Yeah, PA's totally like the newspaper comics. Except it's not written by fucktards. They exclude the fucktards. Once you get over that, they're pretty cool.
Asking someone why they aren't putting on their jester's cap isn't necessarily nice, either. Oh, they left that part out of the CGW article, but it's on their web page:
0 926.htm
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2005/09/26
So Tycho and I are up in front of the audience with Harlen, and Hank (the con organizer) presents us with some jester hats ("Fool's caps"). Tycho and I put ours on because we are polite, but Harlen - who is apparently too cool for school - refuses to wear his. I turn to him and say, "Don't you want your hat?" and he tells me to fuck off. This caught me off guard, I mean I have no clue who this fucking coot is. Then he points to a pad of paper he has and asks if I'm aware that his paper is also called foolscap. Now, I've never heard that term before, I pretty much just call it paper so I shake my head "no." This really isn't a fair question. I mean, it would be like me asking him about Photoshop or if he can remember what he had for lunch. The guy was essentially setting me up to look stupid in front of all these people. So then he asks me if I even attended college and I say "No, I did not." Then, he says "did you at least finish high school?"
Remember, Gabe and Tycho went into this expecting him to be a little testy, and with a plan to deliver a "zinger" when the opportunity arose, so I'm sure they took everything he said with that in mind. They theorized he was upset that he had to share the stage with them, and so tried to belittle them at the first opportunity. But it could just as easily be true that Harlan felt Gabe started it when he asked him to wear the hat.
As for Harlan, here's what he had to say:
http://harlanellison.com/heboard/archive/unca2005
Geeewhiz, I seem to have aroused the feral bleats of Gabe & Tycho's aficionados.
Met the co-guests of honor at Foolscap for all of two minutes.
One of them seemed to me a pleasant man with a nice manner.
The other struck me as a superannuated teen-age golem with a slack jaw, a slow manner, a typical pointless surliness at a world unwilling or unable to accept him as Superlative, and on sum a twerp easy to dismiss.
But then, I'm known for my compassion.
Harlan
Harlan doesn't suffer fools, and especially not gladly. Gabe came off as a boob making snarky comments from the start, and when Harlan tried to engage him intellectually, Gabe showed further weakness by not knowing what he was talking about. Did Harlan take advantage of this to snark back? Sure, but rather than take it in stride, Gabe then went for the comment he had pre-planned to make... a comment which Harlan would regard as a pretty unsophisticated zinger at that, which only made things worse for Gabe.
In any case, perhaps Harlan through Gabe said something else. Or perhaps Harlan didn't say what Gabe thought he said. We do know for sure, though, that Gabe and Tycho entered the frey intended to provoke an exchange from Harlan, and they got exactly what they wanted. I don't see Harlan is to blame for that. Oh, but I see, you figure it's just "coincidence" that Harlan was hostile, that it wasn't Gabe's intent at all, and of course that just confirms your pre-existing evaluation of Harlan's personality.
In the final analysis, I don't know what exactly happened or who is to blame. But I do know something about talking with Harlan, and that's what I posted about. Yes, Harlan has probably pissed off more people in the sf arena than any other author, but the number of people who have managed to get along fine with him still far surpass those few incidents. The man's personality may have sharper corners than most, but that doesn't mean you should intentionally thrust your knee into one just to demonstrate that.
Bruce
Ahh, it turns out I didn't read Harlan's second entry. Here's his further elaboration of the events: MY SECOND, AND FINAL, WORDS ON THIS MATTER What the surly teenager posted on his website as having happened, did NOT, in fact, transpire in that way. Like Mr. Tycho's "gut feeling" or "assumption" or "telepathic intuition" or whatever it was, everything the surly teenager posted was HIS perception of an interchange that lasted for less than two minutes. His assumptions and interpretations are his own, and he's entitled to them. Weird and sad and skewed as they may be. But for him, for Mr. Tycho, and for all of you, I am telling you they are no more accurate than MY understanding of the matter. I don't expect the surly teenager to pause even a moment to consider that his interpretations are wonky, he's incapable, I suspect, of assuming responsibility for ANYTHING he does, like some mook standing in front of Judge Judy. And he certainly isn't going to cop to fronting someone who meant him no harm, not in front of his worshipful gamer-tots. But this is the bottom line: I did not know them, I had no negative feelings toward them, and I was neither rude nor discourteous to them. Never insulted them. Never wanted to insult them. Didn't do it consciously or reflexively. Just didn't do it. ALL insults and disparagement came from the surly teenager. Mr. Tycho shouldn't be defending his associate's bad behavior; after all, Mr. Tycho was standing right there beside me. My assertion is demonstrably more accurate than what the surly teenager posted to arouse his adolescent admirers. As verified by the CHAIRMAN OF THE FOOLSCAP CONVENTION, Hank Graham, who has stated very clearly THERE WAS NO JESTER'S HAT FOR ME. If that is so, then all that follows in the surly teenager's memoir is equally as skewed, equally as misinterpreted, and equally as unfair to me. We were in each other's company less than two minutes. We were all four--Gabe & Tycho, Hank Graham, myself--on the stage in a small room. They were making "gifts" to the Guests of Honor. The first was an orange peeler. I did the expected "take" and looked at this small plastic kitchen implement with mock humor and confusion. I then got a SECOND one, intended for Kathy Roche-Zujko (my ex-secretary, who now lives in Bellevue, with whom we hung during the weekend, and who had picked Susan and me up at Sea-Tac). It was a thankyou from the ConCommittee for her good offices. With TWO of these items, I continued to do the aversion shtick, edging backward toward the audience, past the surly teenager, with one of the orange peelers behind my back and, openly to the entire room, slipped it to someone in the audience. Everyone laughed. I then returned to my place next to the surly teenager, as Hank Graham placed jester's caps (signifying "foolscap") on Mr. Tycho and the surly teenager. Mr. Graham then handed me a lined yellow tablet in a plastic sleeve--foolscap, in the classic meaning of the word--and said, "Here's YOUR foolscap." I am a writer. Getting foolscap was appropriate. I am neither a clown nor an asshole, as so many of the PA adolescents who have no idea of my fifty-plus years' work perceive. It was fitting and proper that I should get a pad of ... well ... foolscap.
The surly teenager then asked me, not very loudly, "Don't you want to wear your hat?"
As there WAS NO HAT for me, I pretty much let slide the gibe.
Well, two aspects of the moment that followed:
1) Someone in the audience said something to ME, DIRECTLY, that I now understand as not having been heard or linked properly, by the surly teenager. I can't remember what it was, but it was a remark made my someone I knew, in a jocular vein, and I tossed over my shoulder the pro forma fuckyou or gofuckyerself or whatever it was. It was no more serious or rude a fuckyou than a Bart Simpson bite me or eat my shorts.
But it wasn't addressed to the surly teenager, who had already made snotty remarks at me, not once, but twice.
If the surly teenager misheard and thought he was
Damn formatting:
... well ... foolscap.
MY SECOND, AND FINAL, WORDS ON THIS MATTER
What the surly teenager posted on his website as having happened, did NOT, in fact, transpire in that way. Like Mr. Tycho's "gut feeling" or "assumption" or "telepathic intuition" or whatever it was, everything the surly teenager posted was HIS perception of an interchange that lasted for less than two minutes. His assumptions and interpretations are his own, and he's entitled to them. Weird and sad and skewed as they may be.
But for him, for Mr. Tycho, and for all of you, I am telling you they are no more accurate than MY understanding of the matter. I don't expect the surly teenager to pause even a moment to consider that his interpretations are wonky, he's incapable, I suspect, of assuming responsibility for ANYTHING he does, like some mook standing in front of Judge Judy. And he certainly isn't going to cop to fronting someone who meant him no harm, not in front of his worshipful gamer-tots. But this is the bottom line:
I did not know them, I had no negative feelings toward them, and I was neither rude nor discourteous to them.
Never insulted them. Never wanted to insult them. Didn't do it consciously or reflexively. Just didn't do it. ALL insults and disparagement came from the surly teenager. Mr. Tycho shouldn't be defending his associate's bad behavior; after all, Mr. Tycho was standing right there beside me.
My assertion is demonstrably more accurate than what the surly teenager posted to arouse his adolescent admirers. As verified by the CHAIRMAN OF THE FOOLSCAP CONVENTION, Hank Graham, who has stated very clearly THERE WAS NO JESTER'S HAT FOR ME. If that is so, then all that follows in the surly teenager's memoir is equally as skewed, equally as misinterpreted, and equally as unfair to me.
We were in each other's company less than two minutes. We were all four--Gabe & Tycho, Hank Graham, myself--on the stage in a small room. They were making "gifts" to the Guests of Honor. The first was an orange peeler. I did the expected "take" and looked at this small plastic kitchen implement with mock humor and confusion. I then got a SECOND one, intended for Kathy Roche-Zujko (my ex-secretary, who now lives in Bellevue, with whom we hung during the weekend, and who had picked Susan and me up at Sea-Tac). It was a thankyou from the ConCommittee for her good offices. With TWO of these items, I continued to do the aversion shtick, edging backward toward the audience, past the surly teenager, with one of the orange peelers behind my back and, openly to the entire room, slipped it to someone in the audience. Everyone laughed.
I then returned to my place next to the surly teenager, as Hank Graham placed jester's caps (signifying "foolscap") on Mr. Tycho and the surly teenager. Mr. Graham then handed me a lined yellow tablet in a plastic sleeve--foolscap, in the classic meaning of the word--and said, "Here's YOUR foolscap." I am a writer. Getting foolscap was appropriate. I am neither a clown nor an asshole, as so many of the PA adolescents who have no idea of my fifty-plus years' work perceive. It was fitting and proper that I should get a pad of
The surly teenager then asked me, not very loudly, "Don't you want to wear your hat?"
As there WAS NO HAT for me, I pretty much let slide the gibe.
Well, two aspects of the moment that followed:
1) Someone in the audience said something to ME, DIRECTLY, that I now understand as not having been heard or linked properly, by the surly teenager. I can't remember what it was, but it was a remark made my someone I knew, in a jocular vein, and I tossed over my shoulder the pro forma fuckyou or gofuckyerself or whatever it was. It was no more serious or rude a fuckyou than a Bart Simpson bite me or eat my shorts.
But it wasn't addressed to the surly teenager, who had already made snotty remarks at me, not once, but twice.
If the surly teenager misheard and thought he was EV
Oh - and I got the quote slightly wrong... My bad.
Funny part is that he continues to refer to Gabe (Mike) as a teenager - he's the same age as Tycho (Jerry). Both are 28.
The entire story seems to be one part description of events, 9 parts "I'm better than them". Any respect he may win by clearing up the events that happened is surely squandered by childish self-aggrandizing and meaningless putdowns.
And now you know why you don't get invited out to parties.
I have a lot of "geek friends" and, while I can normally deal with this, I can tell you that you're not turning off "ordinary folks" because *their* insecure. You're just coming off as an asshole.
It's fine to have beliefs but, right or wrong, you're going to annoy the hell out of 98% of the people out there if you feel the need to get all vigorous about jamming it down their throats. If you get off on this, fine. But don't think these "ordinary folks" are the ones with the defects...
(Sorry for being blunt with my belief system, but I've seen too many unhappy "smart people" with this problem.)
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
Is he trying to get the #1 spot in google for the keyphrase "surly teenager"? It seems like when someone freaks out at you because of a misunderstanding, a calm explanation of "No don't feel that way, I was talking to my friend in the audience." is in order, but instead this has turned into a who can shout the loudest wins contest.
A one panel webcomic - The Book of Biff
This comes down to a he-said, she-said sort of thing. Harlan is a known prick with a gigantic ego. This gives his side of the account...but really, this guy is wrapped in a fantasy world where he is the center. He perceives himself as victimized...totally innocent which you know is utter bs. His whole account is riddled with insults towards the PA guys and their audience. He can't understand that plenty of intelligent, articulate people read and enjoy those comics (and playing video games). He believe his medium of communication is superior and looks down upon others. Don't defend this asshole. Maybe if he took a social styles class he would realize how everyone else perceives him and maybe try to be a little more humble. Like I said, there is no way to say who was right in all this...but the PA guys sure seem a heck of a lot more credible to me. And what's with the whole "you spoke poorly of my wife, now I will hunt you wherever you live" part? Seriously, the guy needs counseling.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
Well, now I understand where the "melodramatic" label comes from.
This turns off a lot of "ordinary" folks, who are so insecure about their own beliefs that they can't really wrap their head around someone else who is so secure in theirs.
No, actually, it turns people off because you're an asshole. It has nothing to do with how secure other people are or aren't. But it does have a lot to do with how secure you are (but not in the way that you think).
And those people don't like to be shown to be wrong, either; it just makes them hurt and hostile.
So, because you;re shown to be wrong, but you can't admit it, you're not just an asshole, but a stupid asshole.
And because you get hurt and hostile about people discovering you're a stupid asshole, it means that you're insecure too - which means that you're doubly stupid.
Hmm.. a doubly stupid insecure asshole.
The plain truth is that if you were really secure in your beliefs, you wouldn't care what anyone else thought of them, and ergo you wouldn't be an asshole.
Therefore, you and Ellison are doubly stupid insecure assholes.
QED.