Katamari Creator Critical of Revolution

Gamasutra has an article on Keita Takahashi's reaction to the Revolution controller. From the article: "Takahashi commented of the Revolution, which has drawn widespread praise for its underlying concepts from other Eastern and Western designers: 'I'm not really interested in it. I don't think a controller should have that much influence on the enjoyment of games.' He continued: 'I see what [Nintendo is] trying to do, but they're putting such emphasis on the controller; 'Woah, this controller lets you do this!' and I'm thinking - are you messing with us?'"

Comments

What Evokes These Comments?

[eldavojohn]

Seriously, during an interview does anyone actually think before they speak? It's almost like any new interview must end/start with an encouragement to say anything at all offensive or shocking so that the interview will be read by a wider audience. And it's kind of disgusting.

"I'm not really interested in it. I don't think a controller should have that much influence on the enjoyment of games."

A lot of the games that are released are cookie cutter games that are slaves to the limitations of the hardware. I welcome a new kind of controller. In fact, I would be tempted to say that you're narrow minded if you're not ready to try a completely new kind of controller.

He continued: "I see what [Nintendo is] trying to do, but they're putting such emphasis on the controller; 'Woah, this controller lets you do this!' and I'm thinking - are you messing with us?"

Takahashi, who has not yet announced his current post-Katamari game project or its platform, concluded on the subject of the Revolution: "So, there's nothing I really want to do with it right now."

I sincerely hope this was taken out of context or misquoted otherwise I would mod this article as flamebait.

It's new. It obviously has new capabilities. How about you use your imagination instead of your tongue?

Re:What Evokes These Comments?

[Fallen Kell]

I agree with you completely on this. I think his main problem is that they WILL have to think outside the box again. This takes time and costs more money then just rehashing something you have already done in the past with maybe some new flashy graphics and some extra physics engine capability.

Heaven FORBID that they need to go back to the drawing board on HCI (Human Computer Interaction) because there is now a lot more capability that was just added to the HCI interface. This completely causes you to re-design full gameplay and get new test studies on how to do things. It makes the companies work again for the titles instead of chop/paste from the past. WOW! They need to take some time again to develop games... what a concept. The sky is falling because of this.

Re:What Evokes These Comments?

[Anonymous Coward]

answer: A large wad of cash courtesy of Sony.

Re:What Evokes These Comments?

[Anonymous Coward]

I sincerely hope this was taken out of context or misquoted otherwise I would mod this article as flamebait.

Try this, replace the word "controller" with the words "flashy graphics" in his quotes and I think you'll start getting a better sense of where he's coming from. I don't think his point is that he is not willing to adapt to a new controller, instead, he's saying that Nintendo seems to be emphasizing the controller itself instead of the things that Nintendo has been traditionally strong in, such as good gameplay and design. In a way he does have a point, cool controller does not a good game make. Just like having the most powerful graphics engine in the universe won't automatically make a crap game great. That's not to say that cool new innovative games that take advantage of the controller won't appear, I'm sure they will, but there's gotta be more than that in the long run to have a healthy platform.

Re:What Evokes These Comments?

[PeelBoy]

So why is there such a big market for joystick style controllers for flight simulators if a standard controller should work fine? Why do PC users swear by mouse and keyboard combo's when they could easily hook up a PS2 controller to their computer? What was the point of virtual reality of a normal TV should be good enough?

If you put your self in a bubble where the entire room is the screen and give your self a new controller (maybe the movement of your body? and a gun for shooting things?) and you've got your self a completely new gaming environment. How is the controller not a huge piece of this?

In gaming you have the hardware, the screen, the controller and the game its self. If they were all equal the controller would make up 25% of that. Thats huge.

If we always used the same flat screen and same basic controller how would we ever go anywhere with games? There would be very little freedom of what we could do.

The problem people seem to be having is that they aren't using their imginations. They are trying to fit our standard type of games we play today into Nintendos new concept and they just don't see how they can play all their favorite games. They refuse to think about NEW games and NEW ways of playing games.

When people think about sword fighting games, golf or baseball games for the Revolution they think of you swinging the controller around wildly or acting like a real base ball player and to me this just seems kind of stupid. I mean it could be fun but it doesn't have to be that crazy.

Think about a baseball game. you could use the joystick part of the controller to move your guy around by the plate and hold the remote in your hand. slight wrist movements would move the bat around. You could swing your wrist foward to swing the bat with out even having to move your entire arm. It would give you full control of how your guy holds the bat and how he swings it. It would add completely new level of skill and fun to the way the game is played.

There are tons of possibilities for a controller like the one for the Revolution but you're going to have to open your mind first.

Re:What Evokes These Comments?

[Chris Burke]

Yeah, from that point of view it makes sense. But I think he's not giving Nintendo enough credit -- I believe they are emphasizing the controller's ability to enable good gameplay and design. The controller is the "revolution" in the "Revolution". Otherwise it's just a new console incorporating new silicon advancements following Moore's Law, like the other two.

If you require neither flashier graphics, superior processing power, nor a new look at game input, then you really don't need a new console at all. Which you could argue you don't, if in fact you are one of those who has mastered good gameplay and design. But if you want to create actual change in gaming from the standpoint of hardware, then a game controller is a good way to do it.

Case in point: Would you say that Nintendo abandoned good gameplay and design when they developed the N64 controller? Is a D-Pad all a good game designer ever needs? Or did the addition of the analog stick open up possibilities for good designers that didn't really exist before? From Mario 64 to Super Monkey Ball to Katamari Damacy itself, there are slews of games which were able to do more with an analog stick than they would with a digital one, and have much better gameplay as a result.

I highly doubt Nintendo has de-emphasized gameplay and design. I strongly suspect that Nintendo's game designers want the new controller as much as anyone as a way to realize better gameplay. If Nintendo is mostly talking about the controller, it's because 1) it's the major change the console brings to the table and 2) they probably don't feel they really need to say that they'll put effort into making games that are well designed irrespective of the controller.

Re:What Evokes These Comments?

[Lobo42]

Yeah, I see where's coming from. Also, as he has already demonstrated, it's entirely possible to create completely original, innovative games without changing anything in the actual hardware. While I'm totally psyched for the Revolution controller and the possibilities it will bring, I also think there's a bit of danger in going down the route of "It's a brand new game! Do all the same things you did last year WHILE WAVING A WAND IN 3D SPACE!" I don't think all games will be like this, but considering the first announced game for the Revolution is a first-person shooter, I definitely think some will.

Re:What Evokes These Comments?

[EggyToast]

Perhaps, except that his use of dual analog controls is really what makes the game fun. The limited movement on the PSP proves that in a large part, the controller's abilities made the game what it was.

The thing that I don't understand about criticisms of the controller is that they seem to ignore the fact that "attachments" seem to be the order of the day. I'll balk at the Big N as much as the next guy if each attachment runs $20 and you need 4 or 5 in order to play the best games, but ignoring that, there's no reason he couldn't create a very creative game, and then create an attachment that really works for the game -- instead of having to graft it on to a standard controller.

Re:What Evokes These Comments?

[KeiichiMorisato]

Just because a game shares a name and is considered a sequel or a spinoff, doesn't mean it's the same game or that it's going to be repeating the same material over and over again.

Do you consider Super Mario 1, 2, 3, World, 64 the same game or just a bland revamp? Do you think Mario Tennis, Mario Soccer, Mario Party....is a revamp of the Mario series?

Try the games before you start spouting nonsense. These games are highly acclaimed because they are great games. Heck, it could be named Super Mario Part 23858934, if it's a good game, it will stand on its on merits.

Re:What Evokes These Comments?

[KeiichiMorisato]

As long as Nintendo uses this new controller as the primary controller, then it won't end up as a gimmick.

Heck, people were saying the analog controller for the N64 was gimmicky, but once it was shown how it could be used and became a primary source, then it became an essential part of ALL video game controllers.

The rumble pack, I considered a gimmick, however it caught on real fast and now it's part of ALL controllers.

Even the touch screen stylus for the DS was at first considered to be a gimmick, and we know how successful the DS has been.

As long as something this new and different is not an add-on / after thought, and is standard as part of a new system, developers will develop for it and we won't have to worry about the lack of games supporting this controller.

Of course, this will only be true if the controller works properly, and so far, the reviews from people who have had HANDS-ON experience, is raving about this new step.

Re:What Evokes These Comments?

[TheFlamingoKing]

I consider Mario Tennis, Mario Super Sidekicks, Mario Golf, etc. to be revamps of sports games. Sports games have been around as long as there have been electronic games.

So again, recycled concepts.

And if I told you that I'm playing that one side-scrolling Mario game with the mushrooms and goombas, would you have any idea even which system I was talking about? Yes, each game has some differences but at the core Mario 1, 2, 3, World, 64, plus Mario Land, Wario etc are all the same game.

As to the article - I hope this does not hurt Slashdotters opinions of Takahashi's. People should remember that this is a video game designer that doesn't play video games. What would he know?

If DualShock wasn't implemented in PS2 would Katamari be any good? That is a game that relies on a certain controller to work - it could possibly be ported to XBox but not as easily to GameCube. Look at games like DDR, Guitar Hero, and Donkey Konga. People like (for the most part) new, different controllers. I agree with Takahashi that Nintendo is putting all of it's emphasis on the controller - that's why the Revolution was created in the first place. The hardware drives the controller, and that is it's primary purpose.

In the end - no one cares what you think, Takahashi. Your first, one, and only game (while awesome) only came out on PS2 anyway. The sequel was a rushed rehash (still, even more awesome) - again on PS2 exclusive. Why would we believe you would develop for the Revolution?

I fully expect to see him eating his words someday...

Re:What Evokes These Comments?

[Doomstalk]

BUT Nintendo is notorius for taking an old concept and revamping.

Nintendo's also known for innovation in its hardware. With the Game & Watch Nintendo invented the D-pad, and introduced it to the home console with the NES/Famicom. Then they introduced the analog stick with the N64 (albeit in a bizarrey shaped controller). With the Gamecube they created the "digital click" which, though largely unused, was a very nice compromise between digital and analog shoulder buttons (for a good use of this feature see Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes). And now, with the DS, they've introduced all kinds of interesting possibilitied with the touchscreen (not their invention, but it's a first in consoles). There are games for the DS that simply CAN NOT be reroduced with a standard controller, such as Yoshi Touch & Go and Kirby's Canvas Curse. Then there are interesting side-notes, like the gyroscopic controls in Kirby Tilt & Tumble.

Furthermore, you complain all you want about Nintendo's stable of franchises, but they do innovate a lot within the confines of said IP. For a classic example, look at Mario 64- it's basically the template from which all other 3D platformers are drawn. Also take a look at Super Smash Bros.- character-wise it's the epitome of Nintendo's franchise-itis: it's nothing but old Nintendo franchises stuffed into a fighting game. Pokemon, But, when you look beyond that, you'll find a fighting game that's hugely different from just about any other on the market. Pokemon, hated as it is by insecure teens, is another great example of innovation. It's a variation on the standard RPG formula, but it veers sharply from mand of the standards/cliches of the genre with wildly entertaining results. Finally, the Kirby titles in the previous paragraph also serve as a good example- the little puffball's had at least 4 different control schemes.

I wouldn't say that Nintendo's reliance on fanchises is a case of laziness. It demonstrates an understanding of the power and recognizability that such old standards can have. Hell, I'd go so far as to say that it's a testament to the power of Nintendo's innovation. You don't create such strong brands by simply doing the same thing over. You do it by making something new and different that sticks with people.

Re:What Evokes These Comments?

[mrsbrisby]

Is a D-Pad all a good game designer ever needs?

Never forget that was invented by Nintendo as well. Before the D-Pad, people used joysticks, and had no idea how much they hated them until the D-Pad.

In fact, being as how Nintendo was right about the D-Pad, right about the modern ``analog'' stick, right about the touching, why does it seem so difficult for people to believe that they might also be right about the freestyle wand?

Nintendo has demonstrated again and again that they invent excellent general purpose input devices, and again and again that new and exciting games take advantage of them.

Of course, then there's the Virtual Boy.

Impact of controllers

[JediLow]

Controllers have always impacted the way people play games - the gamepad revolutionized games (all of those games we had on the original NES and since then aren't practical to play on paddles), the top triggers added to that (allowing for greater control in games), the analog stick greatly added (and became pretty much required for 3d games)... If you want to take another example - take the DDR games... would they be possible without their special controller?

Re:I doubt it will ever materialize anyway

[drinkypoo]

And, even if it does actually work as advertised, it still may be a huge flop. Imagine if the NES had been released with the light gun as the only controller?

The difference is that the Revolution controller does more than a normal controller, not less.

I suspect we might see a more traditional controller emerge when everything is said and done--whether from Nintendo itself, or a 3rd party.

There already is one. It's called the Gamecube controller, and you'll be able to use it with the Revolution.

paradoxical comment

[0biter]

i find it funny that he claims that "nintendo is making all about the controller" because what nintendo is trying to do is rather make the human/machine interface disappear. as it stands, current controllers are totally abstracted: "press A to do this; press B to do that". the player has to take the time to learn what really has no context, thus making it *all about the controller*. now with good software, you just roll the Revo controller to move front, back left and right, swing your sword or toss you fishing lure; the software is what has to understand the context of the humans natural movements. this makes the game more about the human and less about the controller.

Re:I doubt it will ever materialize anyway

[RyoShin]

Well, unless they screw something up between E3 05 and release date, it will work just fine.

Many different gaming magazine writers got to sit down and actually use the controller with demo games. Pretty much every one commented on how flawlessly it worked.

Imagine if the NES had been released with the light gun as the only controller?

That would have been a problem because the light gun had only one function- read in light patterns from the screen. It did nothing else, so programmers would have been able to use that one function in their games.

This is far from a light gun.

(Also, Nintendo has already stated that it is making a "shell" for the controller so it will be more like a conventional one, for the developers and gamers who pussy out.)

Does "it" mean the controller or the platform?

[antifoidulus]

The revolution will be able to support current gamecube controllers as well, so I'm wondering if he is dismissing the entire revolution platform, or just the controller? I think we will still see lots of interesting things come out of the revolution that don't particularly use its controller or use a gamecube one instead.

Hmm... good opinion

[Psykechan]

Remember that he also said that he wasn't going to do a sequel to Katamari Damashi and he eventually made two. He is free to change his opinion later if he wants. Who knows, the next game he makes could actually be a killer app for the Revolution. Nothing is set in stone at this point.

On another note, I am enthused about the Revolution's controller but even I still have a nagging feeling that this step won't stop cookie-cutter games that all play alike, it will just create new styles of cookie-cutter games. I have a DS and play it quite frequently but developers will eventually reach the limit of what a touch screen can do as far as game mechanics goes. Not to mention games like Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow which would've been better without touch screen support and I can see some Revolution games that would be better off with a "standard" controller.

Re:Hmm... good opinion

[spyrochaete]

We Love Katamari was started without the say-so of Takahashi, who later joined the project to ensure quality control of his brand. Me And My Katamari for PSP was made entirely without Takahashi.

Re:Hmm... good opinion

[GrumblyStuff]

Wasn't he going into playground designing? I could have sworn reading somewhere he wasn't making (or at least planning) any other games.

Criticism Warranted

[bssteph]

As a video game (esp. Nintendo) zealot turned dissident, I think Takahashi may be on to something. There's been an awful lot of stabs (again, esp. by Nintendo) to "broaden the audience", getting more casual gamers playing. And hey, if Nintendo thinks this controller helps, that's their decision to make.

But, speaking as an overworked graduate student in CS who once floated through K-12, I can say I don't have time for these "revolutions" in the game industry. Katamari Damacy is the only console game I've played in a long while that I actually loved, and part of that was because I could play for 20 minutes (make the moon!) and get a healthy dose of fun and entertainment (ah, the screams of people trapped in their office buildings...) and then put the game down and get back to work.

That doesn't have any direct bearing on the controller, but the controller is representative of this push into new audiences, and I think a symptom of that is companies like Nintendo are starting to ignore old audiences. I'm not interested in using my controller as a light gun (complete with me having to stand and spin around to turn), or as a sword and shield for Zelda, or whatever other recent rumor/fanboy postulating has come up with. I want to sit down for take a break for twenty minutes.

Granted that Takahashi's track record is pretty short, and not growing at any fast rate, but when reading his interviews (and playing his games) he's always felt like, to me, someone that got it -- I want my games to be fun, lazy, and distractions, not things I need to devote my life and body to (okay, I'm out of shape, sue me).

My casual gamer friends may find using the controller as a wand to be interesting, and Nintendo may think that it's pure gold (and the majority of the industry press may agree), but I just want a simple game I know how to play and can do so without large effort.

For me, Takahashi is right. And it makes me wonder if Nintendo is marginalizing one audience in favor of another.

Re:Criticism Warranted

[Drachasor]

Pardon me, but I think your take is 180 degrees off.

Your enjoyment of Katamari has EVERYTHING to do with the controller; in particular the control scheme. The reason why you, as a very busy individual, could sit down and enjoy it was because the interface was simple and intuitive. The number of games and the breadth of design for them allowed by controllers like the Dual Shock is extremely limited though, which is why there aren't a ton of games out there like Katamari.

Nintendo is doing their best to make a control so that the vast majority of games have a simple and intuitive interface. Instead of worrying about what button does what and such matter, you can just sit down and enjoy any game with this sort of interface. So you'll be able to sit down, play Zelda for a half hour or so and have fun. You won't have to fret over complicated and unnatural control schemes.

A new controller can make a huge number of genres become intuitive to play. Compare that to other controllers with 10 buttons and counting, multiple analog sticks, and so forth and you somehow think the controller isn't playing a role?

-Drachasor

PS. And if the controller requires the tiniest modicrum of real physical exersion to use, then it will probably help you live longer and be healthier, while you are having fun. Really though, I don't it is going to be anything that could wear out anyone except those who are severely out of shape.

Re:Criticism Warranted

[porcupine8]

You seem to be making two conflicting points:

1) Nintendo is sacrificing its "old" audience (that enjoys adventure games, etc that require time) for a "new" audience (casual gamers).

2) As an adult, you are pressed for time and prefer casual games, and Nintendo is overlooking you.

I think that 1 is more correct than 2, though I don't think it's totally correct. The whole point of the Revolution (and its more-intuitive controller) is to get casual gamers off of Yahoo! games and onto a console. Nintendo knows that casual gamers don't sit down for three-hour FPS sessions. They know that you want to sit down and relax for the 20 minutes you've got while dinner is the oven or whatever. That's what they're planning to deliver, though I don't think that they're going to give up on traditional gamers entirely.

And I'm not just saying this because I hope it's true. They've proven with the DS that they can and will attract the casual gamer audience - titles like Nintendogs, Brain Age, and the new Tetris are all perfectly suited for a person who has 10-30 minutes here and there for gaming. I think the Revolution will have a lot of titles like this, and I think that (like the DS's inventive control system) the controller will facilitate this. It won't happen entirely *because* of the controller, but the controller will help. First, like the DS controls, it will inspire designers to think outside the box of what a video game can be. Then, it will attract casual gamers who use their mouse button to click on card games and find ten buttons too annoying to memorize.

Re:I doubt it will ever materialize anyway

[vertinox]

What happens if this thing comes out and it has massive lag, or a problem with the box "losing" the controller, or any number of other technical glitches

Do you really Nintendo would not bother to beta test their flagship product?

I'd think if they were going to ship a product that was horribly flawed they would notice it before they spent millions of dollars to bring it to market.

One Man's Opinion

[spyrral]

Keita Takahashi is the creator of one of my favorite games ever, and I'm inclined to listen to what he has to say on game design issues. But I couldn't disagree more with this statement, seeing as how it implies that he thinks good game design is completely independent of the platform it is made for.

Keita can go and make Katamari Damacy for the original PS1 then. Oh, what's that? Can't handle the huge number of polygons in the game? Lack of dual-analog CONTROLLER makes it not nearly as fun? Yeah, that's what I thought :)

The Revolution's controller, at the very least, will allow for new gameplay elements. Whether or not this will lead to new and exciting game design is up for speculation, but it won't hurt and it's certainly not some kind of smoke screen.

Not deep enough?

[RyoShin]

I'm not really interested in it. I don't think a controller should have that much influence on the enjoyment of games.

The controller has everything to do with the enjoyment of games, because that's how you interact with them. If this statement was really true, we'd all be using controllers like the Colecocision and other such monstrocities from the early 1980s. Look, it has nine buttons AND A KNOB! What more could you possibly ask for? And it's a sturdy, small design, so it can easily be stored.

Can you make enjoyable games with the current controllers? Hell yeah. But the Revolution contoller is about immersion as much as it is about enjoyment. Instead of sending an instruction to your character to swing the sword (passive second person) you actually move your arm to swing the sword (active first person), which will make people much more interested if they actually play the game instead of watch it.

Let's say you like playing sports. Which would you rather do? Be the coach who sits in the box and tells the batter when to swing, or be the batter and decide when you want to swing?

Games will be made on the PS3, 360, and Revolution that are enjoyable. But games will only be made for the Revolution that are immersable, which just compounds the enjoyment.

Re:Not deep enough?

[spyrochaete]

Games will be made on the PS3, 360, and Revolution that are enjoyable. But games will only be made for the Revolution that are immersable, which just compounds the enjoyment.

Unless the game itself features a character reaching its arm out, I don't think the Rev controller will really be that much more immersive than a gamepad. If the controller moves a spaceship or Mario's body or even a mouse cursor, players will still have that extra degree of separation as they translate their physical moves to the onscreen action.

You're absolutely correct in a certain context, but by your argument the inverse works in favour of dual analog for flight sims, for example.

Also, the old VR\Virtual Boy\Powerglove argument comes into play here - you lose all immersiveness when you accidentally whack a lamp in your living room!

Re:Not deep enough?

[DrXym]

But the Revolution contoller is about immersion as much as it is about enjoyment. Instead of sending an instruction to your character to swing the sword (passive second person) you actually move your arm to swing the sword (active first person), which will make people much more interested if they actually play the game instead of watch it.

Which is great, but I suspect that a few years down the line you will a Lancet study on a whole slew of Revolution related injuries - RSI, bruises and fractures etc. - caused by a system that requires someone to wave a controller around, possibly quite forcefully.

Re:Not deep enough?

[mariotwins]

Unless the game itself features a character reaching its arm out, I don't think the Rev controller will really be that much more immersive than a gamepad. If the controller moves a spaceship or Mario's body or even a mouse cursor, players will still have that extra degree of separation as they translate their physical moves to the onscreen action.

How often have you seen someone move their controller wildly as they try to make Master Chief dodge enemy fire or have Mario perform a difficult jump? Or how about moving their controller along with the aircraft on the screen? These people, who are more often than not, casual gamers, are so immersed already that they think moving the controller will help, even though it doesn't. Given that, I think the Revolution has a pretty darn good chance to be more immersive than any controller we've seen so far.

I think everybody's missing the point

[scolby]

I don't think he's saying that the Rev's controller is inherently crappy...I think he's saying that a good game should stand on its own merits, regardless of what you're using to control it. Granted, controls that are difficult to use can ruin an otherwise good product...but any developer worth his salt should be able to program around a controller, not for a controller.

Re:I think everybody's missing the point

[jcostantino]

I agree. I think the problem is that people are pigeonholing the Revolution controller just like they did the DS's dual screens. Hell, even I sneered at the DS when it was being shown. I thought it screamed "GIMICK!" and then I bought one a few months ago... the touch screen does three things: It enables games that would be impossible or extremely difficult to use without it for direct input, it provides an auxiliary screen for additional control buttons, and it provides a second status screen instead of an overlay.

The Rev controller will (or should) do three similar things... It'll function as a gamepad for standard games, it can be a positional input for 3D games, and it can accept peripherals to act like different controllers altogether. Just because this system has a new fancy controller doesn't mean that every game has to exploit it. I'm pleased that most of the DS games haven't made unnecessary use of the touch screen. Quite a few games are very playable without ever picking up the stylus but those that need it make it an integral part of the game experience.

I tend to agree.

[MaWeiTao]

Just because the guy developed one popular game doesn't suddenly make him an expert. On the other hand, I tend to agree with the guy. I'm positive that the Revolution's controller is going to be absolutely phenomenal, but only with a handful of games. Excessive amounts of emphasis have been placed on this controller when the reality is that most games just wont quite work with the controller. It's control mechanism is simply too specialized to fit most games. Maybe its partly the media's fault for pushing this thing so much, but then again, Nintendo hasn't really shown us anything other than that controller.

I personally cant stand the existing controllers covered in buttons and poorly designed games where developers felt the need to use every single button on them. So, I'm not saying Nintendo shouldn't use this thing as the centerpiece for the Revolution. Games like Guitar Hero have shown that Nintendo doesn't really corner the market on unique controllers. So I don't think it's going to quite spur the sort of innovation some people are expecting. The innovations that come will be due to compelling game design, not because some unusual controller has inspired it.

Remember who's speaking

[Silent sound]

"I'm not really interested in it. I don't think a controller should have that much influence on the enjoyment of games."

A lot of the games that are released are cookie cutter games that are slaves to the limitations of the hardware.

Have you ever played Katamari Damacy? There are a full thirteen buttons on the PS2 controller which Katamari Damacy ignores. The entire game is played with two joysticks. The simplicity is enough to make even the Revolution controller look complicated, and yet it entirely achieves the sense of natural interface that the Revolution controller aspires to.

Keita Takahashi, as a game designer, is not slave to the limitations of the hardware. He is master of the limitations of the hardware. Takahashi is one of those rare people who knows how to play limitations like a harp.

I would imagine this is why he is apparently not all that interested in seeing those limitations removed.

He is, of course, a bit of an aberration. Pretty much all other game designers are working at a quite different level. Among this group of developers ("everybody else"), there are quite a lot of people who are excited by the possibilities the Revolution controller offers nad feel it will allow them to express ideas that otherwise would be impossible to manifest in game form, and a lot of other people who aren't expressing interest in the Revolution but in the whole don't seem to think a whole lot about play control (and so keep churning out games which never quite feel natural or correct when thoughtlessly shoehorned underneath the modern standard maze-of-joysticks-and-buttons game controller). With both of these groups, and I think that's a significant portion of all game developers, both the developers and the resulting games would benefit from the Revolution control idiom if it became standard.

But if anyone has the right to say the revolution controller isn't necessary, it's the guy who, with Katamari Damacy, managed to make a totally revolutionary and unique control scheme out of the Dual Shock 2.

Re:Remember who's speaking

[mmkkbb]

Have you ever played Katamari Damacy? There are a full thirteen buttons on the PS2 controller which Katamari Damacy ignores. The entire game is played with two joysticks. The simplicity is enough to make even the Revolution controller look complicated, and yet it entirely achieves the sense of natural interface that the Revolution controller aspires to.

Have you ever played Katamari Damacy? Katamari is a slave to that controller. You could not play that game without two identical joysticks. MAYBE you could play it on a GameCube controller.

Re:Remember who's speaking

[AngelofDeath-02]

Then again, so will any game designed to play on a revolution controller exclusively. I fail to see your point.

Re:Remember who's speaking

[timster]

A trackball wouldn't work for Katamari Damacy. Moving the ball constantly would be extremely annoying and there isn't a way to distinguish turning from strafing. I think it's a stretch to go from "a trackball has a ball" to "a trackball is the best way to move a ball around in a video game."

Re:Remember who's speaking

[Jace of Fuse!]

Keita Takahashi, as a game designer, is not slave to the limitations of the hardware.

Unless I'm thinking of someone else, I'm pretty sure Keita Takahashi isn't a game designer at all. He doesn't even play games, and never even liked them much. He has said so himself before. He considers himself an artist and he wasn't really even thrilled at the idea of working on video game design, but it was a job that came along and he took it.

I tried to find the interview where he admits this, but I failed. If I'm thinking of someone else, someone feel free to correct me, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. Keita Takahashi. Katamari Damacy. Yeah, same dude, I'm sure of it.

He had a great idea with Katamari Damacy. This doesn't make him a game design genius by any means. He's still too new to the game for anyone to know if he can continually innovate. I'm not saying he won't prove himself, but if I had place value in opinions, Shigeru Miyamoto would win out over Keita Takahashi in my eyes.

And for the record, I love Katamari.

Re:Remember who's speaking

[Ondo]

Have you ever played Katamari Damacy? There are a full thirteen buttons on the PS2 controller which Katamari Damacy ignores.

Next time you play, try doing the introductory level where it teaches you the controls, because Katamari doesn't even come close to ignoring all the buttons. Of the thirteen buttons, R3 and L3 are pretty fundamental to the game, as together they switch your direction 180 degrees. R1 and L1 are both used for looking around in different ways. Start pauses, as it does in every game. Select turns on and off vibration. The analog "button" is ignored by every PlayStation game, so Katamari gets no credit there. The face buttons are mostly ignored, but they do use X and Triangle in the level select portion and X and Circle in "Camera Prince" mode (according to the rules, anyway - I never noticed this playing the game). Square, R2 and L2 are also used to see comets, though that is extremely minor.

Not to mention that wiggling the joysticks back and forth to change, and charging farther the faster you manage to do it, is probably the least natural control I've ever experienced outside a fighting game.

The King of All Cosmos says...

[RobertB-DC]

Konichi-wa! Have you ever been to Tokyo?

We dropped the controller there. It just fell out of Our hands while We were playing. Just slipped right out.

We hope you can visit during the day's rolling. Like that's possible.

If We were designing the controller, We would have made it much bigger.

Something is wrong here.

[kyle (in stereo)]

While Takahashi is free to have any opinion he wants, its slightly suspicious that a man who has been quoted as saying that, the drive behind the Katamari games was to "create a quirky and fun game", eschews Nintendo for trying the same thing.

I dun get it.

Nintendo's got it backwards

[lowe0]

In all of your examples, however, the gameplay dictated the design of the controller. Revolution appears to be the other way around.

Re:Only on slashdot

[hkmwbz]

"Any game that is heavily reliant on the controller to make a majority of the mechanics function is doomed from the start"

I agree. That is why I love FMV style games where the game plays itself! No pesky controller to make a majority of the mechanics function!

Who needs a controller to play games? FMV, dude!

Re:I doubt it will ever materialize anyway

[porcupine8]

What happens if this thing comes out and it has massive lag, or a problem with the box "losing" the controller, or any number of other technical glitches (Power Glove anyone?).

Wow, what kind of morons do you think are running Nintendo? This company has been around for over a century, and is the only company currently managing to make an actual profit on video game consoles. You actually believe that they would risk the entire existence of their company by putting out a new console (in a very competitive marketplace) with a main controller that faulty? I mean, if they would, they don't deserve to keep existing anyhow, because that would be such a colossally stupid move. They're not Sony or Microsoft, they don't have a bazillion other products that can keep them afloat if their console bombs. They've got consoles and handhelds, and that's their business.

Yes, it could still be a flop just because of the whims of consumers. But I seriously, seriously doubt it will be because of actual flaws in the technical aspects. They'd push back the date or cancel the controller entirely rather than risk that. The fact that they've gotten this far strongly suggests that it won't be a problem.

Re:Only on slashdot

[dorbabil]

Glorified light gun? Does 5 very natural axises of control mean anything to you? A light gun, at best, has 2 axises of control. If you've got the dexterity to manipulate two analog sticks independently of one another, then you get a maximum of 4 with traditional controllers. Hardcore gamers may have that kind of dexterity, but have you ever seen an average person try to pick up Katamari or any number of FPS games for any of the current gen systems? It's almost painful to watch. And even if you DO have that kind of dexterity, the 5 axises of motion can still add a LOT to games. I mean, imagine what the guys who made games like Ikaruga could do with that kind of freedom. I could list a number of ideas of my own, and I'm just a regular joe-shmo gamer.

Wow a sony dev has no interest in Nintendo? SHOCK

[grapeape]

Keita Takahashi has never developed anything outside of PS2 and PSP titles so why is this a surprise? Whats next, an interview where Bungie declares it lack of desire to port halo to the ps3?

As for the controller, I believe Nintendo's goal isnt to focus on the controller but to make the controller something you dont have to think about. I really think they have the right idea and if its done well, it will revolutionize the game industry. Imagine an interface that has virtually no learning curve. People that have never gamed before will be attracted to it after learning its as easy as using a remote control. As a bonus, educators and parents groups will praise it because it not only encourages but requires physical activity. I really think the hardcore gaming community is really underestimating what Nintendo is bringing to the table.

Lot check

[tepples]

There already is one. It's called the Gamecube controller, and you'll be able to use it with the Revolution.

Unless Nintendo's lot check guidelines require that only GameCube compatible games may use the GameCube controller. This is not without precedent: the GBA hardware accepts a GBC 2-player link cable just fine between two GBAs, but licensees are urged to make their games compatible only with the GBA-GBA multiplayer cable, which is actually slower (half duplex, slower baud rate) than the GBC cable.

Playgrounds or Video Games?

[Hootenanny]

This is an interesting comment coming from the person who, according to TFA, is "arguably more interested in designing children's playgrounds than video games."

Do you remember

[GWBasic]

Do you remember when you played video games as a kid? When you'd twist the controller to the right and left? The revolution will actually respond to these movements.

Re:I doubt it will ever materialize anyway

[elrous0]

Wow, what kind of morons do you think are running Nintendo?

The kind that would release the Virtual Boy.

The kind that would lose a virtual monopoly on the console industry.

Should I go on?

-Eric

Yes.

[Belial6]

Those of you that are old enough, think back to the days of the 2600. Some of the best most memorable games used the paddle. To date, Kaboom! has not had a decent remake. It simply cannot be done with anything other than a paddle. As much as I love Playstation controller for a gamepad, it had definitly limited game play. That is also why FPS suck on the consoles and are good on the PC. FPS need the mouse/keyboard interface.

Takahashi needs to learn from the DS

[mouse_clicker]

Takahashi is making the same mistake a lot of developers made before the DS came out: he's assuming that because this new control mechanism is offered, you *must* use it to make a good game. That's not it at all, the Revolution controller simply opens up a brand new area of control never before offered in such a way- the focus on it is marketing.

The same thing happened to the DS- developers assumed that because there were 2 screens and a touch screen and a microphone, you had to use all of that in your game. A few developers pre-emptively knocked the DS for this very reason. But look at the best DS games, like Castlevania, Mario Kart, or Nintendogs: they're all more or less the same kind of games we're used to but they use the features the DS offers in exciting ways to enrich the gameplay and immerse us in it. The Revolution operates on the same principle- don't build your game AROUND the features but rather use the features to enhance an already-good game design.

So in that sense I agree with Takahashi, that the quality of a game design is not inherently linked to a controller. However, I think the best game designs are the ones that use the unique tools available to them. Dawn of Sorrow would've been just like the trifecta of Castlevanias on the GBA had it not included the new spell system you drew onto the touch screen yourself. In this way, a good game design was enhanced with the DS's tools to make it unique, which I think very much helped Dawn of Sorrow become the best game in the series, save Symphony of the Night only.

The Revolution is all about ENHANCING gameplay, not CREATING gameplay.

-Moses

PLEASSEEEEE HELP ME UNDERSTAND.

[AgNO3]

Hasn't this Revolution controller been around for a while and made by macally and called the air stick? or the even older gyro mouse thing. I remember the gyro mouse when it came out in 1995. What does this Revolution controler do that Gyro mouse and the air stick don't?
The air stick has been out for a good few years.

http://macally.com/spec/usb/input_device/airstick. html

Re:I doubt it will ever materialize anyway

[Krakhan]

Um, no, you're assumption is incorrect. Nintendo has been around since 1889. They started off by making cards for card games. See the wikipedia article below for more details.

You're proving yourself wrong

[LKM]

"I'm not really interested in it. I don't think a controller should have that much influence on the enjoyment of games."

Have you ever played Katamari Damacy? (...) The entire game is played with two joysticks

So what you're saying is that Katamari Damacy would not have been possible with a controller without two analog sticks? That's, like, every console generation before the current one.

Not to mention that it was Nintendo who introduced the analog stick. But that shouldn't have that much influence on the enjoyment of games, right?